11-05-2013 09:47 PM
113 12345
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  1. xandros9's Avatar
    Microsoft should be worried in the fact that Google is working on the problem.
    However, I used an HTC Aria with a custom CyanogenMod 10 ROM (4.1 JellyBean I believe, kudos to WinSuk) and it was pretty serviceable. Specs were 384-ish MB RAM, CPU scaled and had max overclock at 800 MHz (ARMv6).
    The experience wasn't a laggy purgatory as some may believe.
    but then I started using Firefox (since Chrome isn't compatible with ARMv6 CPUs) and other apps and performance went down the tubes pretty quickly. Its been a long time since I've used it, but I don't think my memory is that foggy.

    Keep in mind, it was hardware that got its last update to Gingerbread (I think) and wasn't meant for 4.x.
    11-04-2013 01:43 PM
  2. cckgz4's Avatar
    Amazing how it's the same two asking for sales numbers when no one is boasting about the 520/521 outselling the competition, but CLEARLY the point is that the low end devices make up the bigger portion of WP's marketshare.

    But if google manages to fix the lag and stability many would move back from wp to android? because android at this point is way more functional.
    You assume they will fix that, and it's been how many years since Android has been out? Yeah I doubt it's going to happen in the immediate future, if at all since it's an open sourced platform. The ONLY phones with consistent user experiences are locked down platforms (BB10, WP, and iOS).

    I've used everything under the sun outside of BB10. And to keep it Android since a lot of that is being thrown around, my most recent device was the LG Optimus G for AT&T. Before that, it was the MyTouch 4G, and before that it was some Samsung slider. The last two were very slow in experience. My LG Optimus G ran smoothly...........for a few months. Then I experienced some app crashes, freezes, and lock ups. Another minor annoyance was whenever I was on the phone, I could NEVER hear any alerts outside of an incoming call, so I would miss texts while taking a phone call. Even with all of that separate volume control, I couldn't hear my text alert. There wasn't even a vibration, which BTW is SO small, you barely notice your phone vibrating. The other annoyance was the keyboard. The auto correct was HORRIBLE. I would spend more time editing than typing.

    Am I saying Windows Phone is without flaws? No, far from it. My phone freezes and reboots, but I also have a $100 phone brand new. My 822 didn't do that nearly as often as the 520, but don't confuse my use of "often" for "all the time". The app gap, at times, seems to get to me but it has a lot of what I use. But at the end of the day, people are going to choose what they want to use. They don't care if Google is hard at work to optimize performance or if Microsoft has finally added a file explorer. As long as a customer finds a phone they like and the apps they need, that's the only thing that matters for the general consumer, not this other stuff y'all arguing about
    11-04-2013 01:45 PM
  3. chezm's Avatar
    But if google manages to fix the lag and stability many would move back from wp to android? because android at this point is way more functional.
    There's other additional reasons for me to not return to using an Android phone, although i do find their OS decent for a tablet. And if Google's claims were actually true about correcting all the LAG and stability issues, i actually think a lot of people could potentially leave WP for Android. But the problem is Android's know for its open source and im confident by fixing those long time issues would scale back the open -endedness of the OS...and people would not be happy, so i doubt it will happen. But again, i have additional reasons for not wanting to return to Android as a mobile OS platform...if i had to leave WP, i'd go to iPhone.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    11-04-2013 01:49 PM
  4. Jas00555's Avatar
    only the first one is very positive news, everything else is a twist.

    "fastest growing" doesn't mean anything when there are low numbers to begin with. For example, I could start a phone company and sell 2 phones, then next year, sell 20 and have 1000% growth, while only having .0000000000001% market share
    11-04-2013 01:53 PM
  5. Jas00555's Avatar
    If you think Apple/Microsoft/BB thoroughly test every App submitted, you are delusional.
    I remember reading something a month ago where an unofficial BBM app got released on the store and broke everything, but I can't remember... Hmm.... Nah, probably never happened
    11-04-2013 01:56 PM
  6. inteller's Avatar
    I think it is important to note that Google is quickly sewing up the open-source services that are core to its business. If you take the stock android it is a shadow of the Google provided services like Search, YouTube, etc. Open only goes so far with Google.
    11-04-2013 02:01 PM
  7. squire777's Avatar
    The majority of the arguments in this thread are based on the big assumption that people are only buying phones like the 520 or 521 because they got tired of Android and its lag. Where is the data that suggests this?

    If anything I think it's more likely that the type of people who buy low end WP and Android phones are those who are switching from feature phones. It could also be the case that people are buying a Windows Phone because they like the platform for other reasons, or they like the hardware etc (I know the Android fanboys will find that hard to swallow).
    11-04-2013 02:10 PM
  8. chezm's Avatar
    I think it is important to note that Google is quickly sewing up the open-source services that are core to its business. If you take the stock android it is a shadow of the Google provided services like Search, YouTube, etc. Open only goes so far with Google.
    They will leave it open enough so that the users who want the root access can have it...if they start taking away the flexibility and openess thats made them so successful, they will get hurt by it. They might be sewing it up, but i dont think they will take it to an iOS/WP level of lock down. They know people root their devices and its a big reason for their success, it would be foolish to strip away a major success generator.
    11-04-2013 02:13 PM
  9. techiez's Avatar
    The majority of the arguments in this thread are based on the big assumption that people are only buying phones like the 520 or 521 because they got tired of Android and its lag. Where is the data that suggests this?

    If anything I think it's more likely that the type of people who buy low end WP and Android phones are those who are switching from feature phones. It could also be the case that people are buying a Windows Phone because they like the platform for other reasons, or they like the hardware etc (I know the Android fanboys will find that hard to swallow).
    Agreed, Hardware - specifically Nokia's hardware pulled ppl to this OS. Low end android phones still sell a lot but ppl are then frustrated by the lag etc and they do want to try out something other than android, Iphone being too expensive so all that is left a WP with Shiny colorful WPs attracting ppl, but once the lag/stability is sorted out ppl who are frustrated with WPs lack of features will move onto android isnt it?
    11-04-2013 02:19 PM
  10. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Compare this with Apple and Windows (Closed source, they do not allow rooting and stuff, APple does to a certain extent but not as much as android), each app is manually reviewed before its made public. You try to upload some worm and they'll catch you for real.
    [Snipped lots of stuff before and after]
    I could argue with most of your statements but I'm not going to bother as they are not relevant to my question. Why does the fact that Android is "open source" (which is a questionable claim in itself) have anything to do with app review policies at an app store?
    11-04-2013 02:23 PM
  11. inteller's Avatar
    They will leave it open enough so that the users who want the root access can have it...if they start taking away the flexibility and openess thats made them so successful, they will get hurt by it. They might be sewing it up, but i dont think they will take it to an iOS/WP level of lock down. They know people root their devices and its a big reason for their success, it would be foolish to strip away a major success generator.
    they will always have AOSP, but the awesome stuff will be closed up and maintained by google only.
    11-04-2013 02:39 PM
  12. z33dev33l's Avatar
    $39 with a credit check, how many years on NEW contract, with how big an early termination fee ? c'mon, there is no smartphone for $39. or if there is, enlighten me.


    cheap phones? oh i had em...
    yes, i had on the table this weekend a 920, a g1, a g2, an s2, an s3, a note2 (not sure if it was a note, note2, or note3 really), and an s4. there was very little difference in feel besides the 4+ year old g1 was about to fall apart. the 3+ year old g2 felt a lot like the 920 (which suprised me) and all the galaxy line were uneventful in comparison really. aside screen size differences, there was little difference in responsiveness (except the g2 and g1 were noticably slower using mapping apps), and the 920 got hot at one point browsing photos.
    I do appreciate the g1 though. It's the last time I feel an android OEM innovated beyond, "Moar specs!"

    In all reality, I'm not worried. Even the high end Android OEMs can't make a device that feels premium (though LG comes close) Their low end devices just feel laughable even beyond the software.

    Oh and no, the 520 was being offered at 90 with a $50 mail in rebate with no contract.
    Last edited by eric12341; 11-04-2013 at 11:44 PM.
    squire777, neo158 and xandros9 like this.
    11-04-2013 02:41 PM
  13. anony_mouse's Avatar
    I'm vastly over simplifying it, but basically when you have an open source OS, you have the make the code open and able to work with more things. Whereas when it's proprietary, things are more optimized.

    Windows and OS X aren't open, but it's a good example. OS X really is built under the assumption that you have a mac, whereas Windows can run on anything as long as you have enough memory and storage, so Windows tends to be more buggy (not that much in my experience though)
    (Apologies - this is straying off topic)

    OK, I suspect that some people here do not understand what "open source" means. Open source means that the source code for a project is publicly available, and it's typically associated with collaborative development with contributions from several (perhaps 1000s) of parties. Companies making use of open source typically take it, adapt it to their needs, optimise it, perhaps publish and contribute their changes (this is required by some open source licences) and make their product available.
    Android is "open source" to a degree - it uses a lot of open source components, and Google publish the source code to some parts of it, but typically sometime after the OS is released. Other parts, such as the Google apps, remain proprietary.
    Android (*), iOS and WP all require applications to be cryptographically signed by their respective owners in order to run. This has nothing to do with open v. closed source. It means that app stores can test the application for quality, safety, lack of malware as they see fit, and only sign apps that meet their quality standards. If an approved app contains malware, it is because the app store checking did not catch it. It is nothing to do with whether the OS is "open source" or not.
    Do you see the point?

    (*) Android does allow users to disable this checking, and install apps from sources other than Google's app store, making the platform "open" to run any compatible app, in the same way as Windows desktop or OS X. As far as I am aware, this is never enabled by default on Android, and users do so at their own risk.

    It's also been claimed that "open source" is less optimised than "closed source". This is also not inherently true. Optimisation is largely down to the amount of effect a manufacturer (or whoever) puts into making software run well in specific circumstances. It's probably fair to say that more generic software is typically less optimised than less generic software, but this is a very rough rule.
    Windows does not "run on anything". Desktop Windows runs only on x86 platforms. Compare with Linux or the BSDs (which are heavily used by OS X and iOS), which run on dozens of processor architectures.
    Last edited by anony_mouse; 11-04-2013 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Add apology
    11-04-2013 02:43 PM
  14. hopmedic's Avatar
    The majority of the arguments in this thread are based on the big assumption that people are only buying phones like the 520 or 521 because they got tired of Android and its lag. Where is the data that suggests this?

    If anything I think it's more likely that the type of people who buy low end WP and Android phones are those who are switching from feature phones. It could also be the case that people are buying a Windows Phone because they like the platform for other reasons, or they like the hardware etc (I know the Android fanboys will find that hard to swallow).
    I don't remember the exact number, but a while back Microsoft or Nokia (don't remember which) released a number in the 40s. That number was the percentage of new Windows Phone purchases that were first time smartphone buyers. In other words, the lion's share of Windows Phone purchases are from people buying their first smartphone.

    You are correct, and there are numbers to back you up.

    (Looks like I was mistaken - that number is 52%)
    Microsoft wins first-time smartphone buyers
    11-04-2013 02:45 PM
  15. dkediger's Avatar
    Part of the problem is answering the question - from a consumer's point of view - is: What is an Android phone?

    My point of view is it's the base OS/ASOP + Google Services (Google Now, Google+, etc) + carrier fluff. Google has been yanking their services out of the base OS in order to control and enhance their own (Google's) experience - and monetization/value. At the moment, I just don't see those services comfortably existing on hardware approaching the 520/521 class - thus depriving Google of the revenue ops built into their services.
    11-04-2013 02:49 PM
  16. ohgood's Avatar
    the 520 was being offered at 90 with a $50 mail in rebate with no contract.
    Hell I'd buy one retail for that price. Is it still happening?
    11-04-2013 03:45 PM
  17. cckgz4's Avatar
    only the first one is very positive news, everything else is a twist.

    "fastest growing" doesn't mean anything when there are low numbers to begin with. For example, I could start a phone company and sell 2 phones, then next year, sell 20 and have 1000% growth, while only having .0000000000001% market share



    Exactly why I didn't post it. I don't care how much a platform sales BUT I do know that its growing and that 520 makes the bulk of the sales.

    And to squire, who is making it seem like folks switch to such a cheap device to avoid lag? The 520 lags as well, just not as much





    Sent from my RM-915_nam_usa_228 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by cckgz4; 11-04-2013 at 09:29 PM.
    11-04-2013 04:41 PM
  18. techiez's Avatar
    I don't remember the exact number, but a while back Microsoft or Nokia (don't remember which) released a number in the 40s. That number was the percentage of new Windows Phone purchases that were first time smartphone buyers. In other words, the lion's share of Windows Phone purchases are from people buying their first smartphone.

    You are correct, and there are numbers to back you up.

    (Looks like I was mistaken - that number is 52%)
    Microsoft wins first-time smartphone buyers
    And even others were mostly symbian converts who wanted to buy a Nokia.
    11-04-2013 09:28 PM
  19. jlynnm350z's Avatar
    Google is worried about Microsoft that's why their making this move now, definitely food for thought. Now people who want low end phones will have more choices.
    eric12341 and xandros9 like this.
    11-04-2013 09:34 PM
  20. eric12341's Avatar
    [WARN] Here is what everyone in here agreed to before joining this site. Yet several posts in this thread have broken that agreement. The very next post to do so will receive an infraction [/warn]

    I don't think it will run smoother because you have OEMs and carriers that load the devices up with junk, sure you can remove them but the average consumer has no idea how to do that.


    $39 with a credit check, how many years on NEW contract, with how big an early termination fee ? c'mon, there is no smartphone for $39. or if there is, enlighten me.

    T-mobile USA sells the 521 at $19.99 down, no early termination fee, just the remaining cost of the device.
    Maybe since I own and use all 3 it creates bias, since I know first hand what each can and cannot do. In the last year I've bought 1 Android phone, 2 iPhones, and 8 or so WPs.

    As far as "running circles around WP", I'm speaking purely of features & functionality, not necessarily user experience or satisfaction. Take your 920 or 1020 or 1520 and edit an .xls document. Email 2 of them in the same email. Lock the screen rotation (yes I know that's very close to being official, but 3 years after WP's release?). Quick toggle WiFi/bluetooth/airplane mode. Customize your LED notification light (oh wait...). Set up your WP to automatically turn on WiFi and disable the lockscreen when you arrive at home and/or work. Do you need more examples?
    How many of these actually matter to the average consumer? WP may lack those features currently but it's not stopping sales or harming customer satisfaction which by the way is higher than Android.
    cckgz4 and rockstarzzz like this.
    11-04-2013 11:54 PM
  21. omgitsnick's Avatar
    Even the slowest performance of WP8 is still pretty fast.
    11-05-2013 12:52 AM
  22. pseudoware's Avatar
    Android can't even run smoothly on dual quad core processors. You really think they can optimize it for the low end?
    Not a dual quad core, and it runs pretty smooth on this device.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    11-05-2013 01:11 AM
  23. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Even the slowest performance of WP8 is still pretty fast.
    There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking on this thread.
    When discussing lag and speed, the timeline to assess is something like this.
    1. User touches something on the screen (e.g. icon to start web browser).
    2. Something happens (e.g. loading screen is displayed).
    3. Action completes (e.g. web browser started and ready for use).

    In my experience, WP reaches step 2 more quickly than Android on similar hardware (although that's debateable on newer phones). But it reaches step 3 more slowly.

    Another question is how much users actually care.
    11-05-2013 04:02 AM
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