11-07-2013 10:25 PM
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  1. jhoff80's Avatar
    Well, most of these roms are small files unless you're talking about N64 and up, and even then, are there emulators to support that on this platform? And yes, I agree that everyone doesn't have fast, cheap internet, but if you can't afford the internet for a PC, are you saying that mobile data doesn't have the same flaws/caps? You're able to download large movie files using your network on your phone and not have a costly fee??
    For emulators, sure, files are small. But as I said in my first post, it's not just that. It's that no file type can be opened with any app. Emulators, books, video files are just a few examples of file types that one might want an app on the phone to access. (Others would be zip files, comic book files, FLAC audio, or a million other things).

    As for bandwidth, I'm saying that the user can't connect a USB cable to their PC, copy files from a PC to a phone, and then open those files on the phone (thereby having nothing whatsoever to do with mobile data caps). Instead, a person has to download a file to their PC to get it in the first place (first hit to their cap), then upload it to their internet (second hit to their cap), and then download it again from the internet to their phone (meaning you have to use three times the data to get the file from one place to another). It's absurd.
    techiez likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:15 PM
  2. jhoff80's Avatar
    I don't think I've met a person in my life that would say the phone is suppose to replace a full blown computer... AFAIK a phone is a companion device, which Windows Phone does very well! I would say it does it better than any other OS on the market.

    I agree there are some API's Microsoft needs to open up for developers as I have said in my posts before, but a full blown completely open file manager is not at all what is needed or wanted!
    Smartphones these days have the same power and speed as laptops from only a few short years ago, so saying that a phone is not a computer is ludicrous. Even still, sure, for many people a smartphone does not replace a computer and is only a companion. Still, a smartphone is with someone all the time, and a laptop or tablet is not. Is it really inconceivable to you that someone could be in a situation where they only have their phone and yet still need to access a certain file? Android phones and iPhones let you do this. Windows Phone does not.

    Really, that's the whole story in itself. Android phones and iPhones currently let users do many more basic needs than a Windows Phone does. That's the biggest reason that Windows Phone is so far behind in market share.
    11-05-2013 12:20 PM
  3. cckgz4's Avatar
    For emulators, sure, files are small. But as I said in my first post, it's not just that. It's that no file type can be opened with any app. Emulators, books, video files are just a few examples of file types that one might want an app on the phone to access. (Others would be zip files, comic book files, FLAC audio, or a million other things).

    As for bandwidth, I'm saying that the user can't connect a USB cable to their PC, copy files from a PC to a phone, and then open those files on the phone (thereby having nothing whatsoever to do with mobile data caps). Instead, a person has to download a file to their PC to get it in the first place (first hit to their cap), then upload it to their internet (second hit to their cap), and then download it again from the internet to their phone (meaning you have to use three times the data to get the file from one place to another). It's absurd.
    I was referring to your emulator reference, that was it. And as a consumer, if I know that I have a lot of media contained on an SD card, and if it's important enough, I know to choose the right platform, regardless if I want to be on another or not. Yes, this feature is important to people who need it and I am not trying to take that away from anyone, but what I am trying to shake is the notion that this platform is at 4% because this function is not implemented.

    And pardon my ignorance, and unless I'm reading it wrong, are you saying that there are people sharing the same internet with their phone and personal computer? Or was your third "cap hit" in reference to wi-fi?
    11-05-2013 12:21 PM
  4. ag1986's Avatar
    I don't think I've met a person in my life that would say the phone is suppose to replace a full blown computer... AFAIK a phone is a companion device, which Windows Phone does very well! I would say it does it better than any other OS on the market.

    I agree there are some API's Microsoft needs to open up for developers as I have said in my posts before, but a full blown completely open file manager is not at all what is needed or wanted!
    Again: you, your life. You are not the world. Your use cases are not the only ones that exist.
    11-05-2013 12:25 PM
  5. berty6294's Avatar
    Look, this is what needs to be done.

    Windows Phone needs set Libraries. Libraries for Documents, Pictures, Videos, and Music. ALL Music will be saved to Music. All Pictures will be saved to Pictures. All Videos will be saved to Videos. All other Documents will be saved to Documents. No file type will be able to save in any Library besides it's designated Library. (no pictures in documents, no videos in pictures, etc)

    The user is able to view these like they do already with the Photo hub. There will be a Photo Hub, Music Hub, Video Hub, and Document Hub. The user is able to create folders within the photos hub and move his photos around. Same goes for the other Libraries. The user is not allowed to move something from one library to another!

    All apps should have a disclaimer from the start (much like the "this app uses you internet services" except "this app accesses your photos" or "this app accesses your documents"). As long as the app lets the consumer know from the start, that app is allowed to access the "Photo hub" much like Windows 8 when the user decides they would like to import a file or photo. The app itself is not allowed to move files or create folders!

    This is what needs to be done. More then what is currently implemented however not nearly as far as a full file explorer.
    lumiadeb likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:27 PM
  6. berty6294's Avatar
    Again: you, your life. You are not the world. Your use cases are not the only ones that exist.
    The world I am familiar with as well as many others on this forum certainly disagree with you.
    11-05-2013 12:28 PM
  7. jhoff80's Avatar
    And as a consumer, if I know that I have a lot of media contained on an SD card, and if it's important enough, I know to choose the right platform, regardless if I want to be on another or not. Yes, this feature is important to people who need it and I am not trying to take that away from anyone, but what I am trying to shake is the notion that this platform is at 4% because this function is not implemented.
    No, it's not any single function that is keeping market share so low. It's a combination of tons of things like this that are just flat out missing on Windows Phone that keeps its market share so low. They're way behind the competition on a ton of basic functionality, and that's why so many people who try Windows Phone just can't stay with it for an extended period of time.

    And pardon my ignorance, and unless I'm reading it wrong, are you saying that there are people sharing the same internet with their phone and personal computer? Or was your third "cap hit" in reference to wi-fi?
    Yes, I was talking about wifi.
    Ek-Balam likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:30 PM
  8. jhoff80's Avatar
    Look, this is what needs to be done.

    Windows Phone needs set Libraries. Libraries for Documents, Pictures, Videos, and Music. ALL Music will be saved to Music. All Pictures will be saved to Pictures. All Videos will be saved to Videos. All other Documents will be saved to Documents. No file type will be able to save in any Library besides it's designated Library. (no pictures in documents, no videos in pictures, etc)

    The user is able to view these like they do already with the Photo hub. There will be a Photo Hub, Music Hub, Video Hub, and Document Hub. The user is able to create folders within the photos hub and move his photos around. Same goes for the other Libraries. The user is not allowed to move something from one library to another!

    All apps should have a disclaimer from the start (much like the "this app uses you internet services" except "this app accesses your photos" or "this app accesses your documents"). As long as the app lets the consumer know from the start, that app is allowed to access the "Photo hub" much like Windows 8 when the user decides they would like to import a file or photo. The app itself is not allowed to move files or create folders!

    This is what needs to be done. More then what is currently implemented however not nearly as far as a full file explorer.
    Good for you, that's all you need. There's still way too much limitation there though. The real solution to appease everyone would be to bring what's already present in Windows 8.1 to Windows Phone.
    11-05-2013 12:32 PM
  9. cckgz4's Avatar
    No, it's not any single function that is keeping market share so low. It's a combination of tons of things like this that are just flat out missing on Windows Phone that keeps its market share so low. They're way behind the competition on a ton of basic functionality, and that's why so many people who try Windows Phone just can't stay with it for an extended period of time.


    Yes, I was talking about wifi.
    While I agree that "function" (a lot of mainstream apps, and a notification center) is missing from Windows Phone, I still don't agree with this being part of it since consumers have no idea what this means (in the US and other parts of the world that don't depend on it). If we had the same amount of applications of Android and get the latest app on time with the top two, I guarantee you people will look past a notification center and a file explorer. Guarantee
    sahib lopez likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:34 PM
  10. jhoff80's Avatar
    While I agree that "function" (a lot of mainstream apps, and a notification center) is missing from Windows Phone, I still don't agree with this being part of it since consumers have no idea what this means (in the US and other parts of the world that don't depend on it). If we had the same amount of applications of Android and get the latest app on time with the top two, I guarantee you people will look past a notification center and a file explorer. Guarantee
    Unless you're on a developer version of an OS (which while many of us here are, it's ridiculous to assume the general public is), you still can't use custom sounds for text messages. Do you really think that's something that nobody notices?
    11-05-2013 12:35 PM
  11. berty6294's Avatar
    Good for you, that's all you need. There's still way too much limitation there though. The real solution to appease everyone would be to bring what's already present in Windows 8.1 to Windows Phone.
    Good lord! How could you possibly need more than that?? If you need more than that, you are using your phone wrong!
    11-05-2013 12:36 PM
  12. cckgz4's Avatar
    Unless you're on a developer version of an OS (which while many of us here are, it's ridiculous to assume the general public is), you still can't use custom sounds for text messages. Do you really think that's something that nobody notices?
    You must've missed the big news coverage about GDR3 giving us that option, which was released to developers (and a workaround was found for the general consumer). So now you can do custom sounds for text messages (I have that implemented on my phone as we speak). And I don't have to be a developer to know that apps are what people live by for a smartphone (majority)
    11-05-2013 12:39 PM
  13. jhoff80's Avatar
    Good lord! How could you possibly need more than that?? If you need more than that, you are using your phone wrong!
    A second part of that is that sometimes a user will want to attach multiple documents to a single email. Not possible with the current 'attach from a hub' model. Or sometimes a user will want to reply to a pre-existing email with a file attachment. Again, not possible with the current model.
    Anyway, on top of that, there's already a pool of storage that is accessible when you plug into a PC. There's no reason to divide that into small little sub pools for separate hubs. Any file placed in any folder there should be accessible by any application that has permissions to access local storage. To do that, you need to have a file picker anyway. If you're going to have a file picker, you might as well do it right and keep Windows 8's model of letting cloud storage apps (Skydrive, for one, but also third party Dropbox apps and others) plug into that file picker. And at that point, if you're just recycling code from the Skydrive app, it makes sense to just bring Windows 8.1's Skydrive app to the phone, to give limited support for file access to anyone who needs it.

    Anyone who doesn't want to touch their files doesn't have to. Limiting the power users who would want to, on the other hand, completely limits the potential penetration of the OS.
    Ek-Balam likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:45 PM
  14. jhoff80's Avatar
    You must've missed the big news coverage about GDR3 giving us that option, which was released to developers (and a workaround was found for the general consumer). So now you can do custom sounds for text messages (I have that implemented on my phone as we speak). And I don't have to be a developer to know that apps are what people live by for a smartphone (majority)
    Seriously, reading comprehension helps.

    Unless you're on a developer version of an OS (which while many of us here are, it's ridiculous to assume the general public is),
    11-05-2013 12:45 PM
  15. ag1986's Avatar
    Good lord! How could you possibly need more than that?? If you need more than that, you are using your phone wrong!
    These are a few of the file types I use on my phone regularly:

    epub, mobi, prc, chm - popular ebook formats

    dwg - AutoCAD

    various Gerber file formats - chip design files

    psd occasionally

    mp4, avi, mkv, flac, flv, wav - audio and video file formats, which I don't have to transcribe to whatever format/codec/container has been blessed by Lord Ballmer.

    Look, I'm not saying I want a full file manager. I just want the ability to go beyond these predefined libraries and just tell WP, look, here is a .dwg file, I have this AutoCAD app on my phone, henceforth open all these files with this app AND/OR allow this app to find and read these files. Hell, let me define a new library called AutoCAD and put all dwgs there if you must.
    Funky Cricket likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:47 PM
  16. cckgz4's Avatar
    Seriously, reading comprehension helps.
    Oh I comprehended well. I was spelling it out for you since, you know, we are referring to a "tech savvy" base of consumers, and we assume that those that can use a file explorer are "tech savvy". But I guess not "tech savvy" enough to know how to get around being a "developer"

    But I guess we split hairs to make a point
    sahib lopez likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:48 PM
  17. lumiadeb's Avatar
    1.Note the vote count for file manager in uservoice of MS.Most people want it.
    2.Having a choice is better.The defenders of NO FILE MANAGER are welcome to abhor and avoid a file manager if MS chooses to make one.And if they don't make one,uservoice is useless and we have no choice.
    3.When wp os had no Bluetooth file transfer,the defenders of shortcomings praised it with the excuse of the TIGHT security of the OS.Then in wp8 MS brought the feature and defenders went gaga about the inclusion of the Bluetooth.Such is the case of file manager.
    4.Even 10 years ago,desktops used to have 1 ghz processors,1gb ram,HD displays.Now we have all that and more in our phone.So arent smartphones heading towards replacing the pc?You would hike internal memory by leaps and bounds and would discard a file manager?
    5.if you have hundreds of photos in your 32gb phone,would you not like to organize them in folders like FAMILY,FRIENDS,COLLEAGUES etc?or u love a swipefrenzy?
    6.If the voice of a large number of users is strangled, the OS won't evolve and will eventually die.So if users want a file manager don't ignore them.don't advise them to switch to other os.
    6.SkyDrive isn't a solution because data DOES cost.once you upload then you download spending time,money and patience.moreover SkyDriven files eat up internal memory.So why not let users transfer office files or whatever they choose to their sd cards directly?

    Sent from my RM-914_im_india_269 using Tapatalk
    Ek-Balam likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:48 PM
  18. berty6294's Avatar
    I KEEP PRONOUNCING DWGS AS DAWGS!!!

    And okay that I'd be cool with. Except for creating a new library, that is prohibited.
    11-05-2013 12:50 PM
  19. cckgz4's Avatar
    Just to clarify, I'm not one that's saying "no" to file explorers. I'm saying that it's not this great concern this topic makes it to be
    11-05-2013 12:52 PM
  20. ag1986's Avatar
    Also, it's interesting to see that the top 3 file manager apps on Google Play (File Manager (Explorer), ES and Astro) have 10M-50M reviews each.

    To put that in context, even thinking 10-50M is 10M, that each of the installers of these apps have all three and so no unique users in that pool, we end up with 10M users. That is equal to the number of WP handsets sold last quarter. If even 10% of those users considered WP and were turned away by the lack of file management ability, that's 1M lost sales or 10% more sales.

    And before you dismiss these users, as people on this forum love to do, as 'geeks' or 'tech nerds', consider this. When users think about what to buy, whether it's a laptop or a tablet or whatever, they either buy the latest FruitCo offering, OR they go to those same geeks and nerds for advice. What are those nerds going to recommend? One hint, it's not going to be WP...
    11-05-2013 12:52 PM
  21. cckgz4's Avatar
    Also, it's interesting to see that the top 3 file manager apps on Google Play (File Manager (Explorer), ES and Astro) have 10M-50M reviews each.

    To put that in context, even thinking 10-50M is 10M, that each of the installers of these apps have all three and so no unique users in that pool, we end up with 10M users. That is equal to the number of WP handsets sold last quarter. If even 10% of those users considered WP and were turned away by the lack of file management ability, that's 1M lost sales or 10% more sales.

    And before you dismiss these users, as people on this forum love to do, as 'geeks' or 'tech nerds', consider this. When users think about what to buy, whether it's a laptop or a tablet or whatever, they either buy the latest FruitCo offering, OR they go to those same geeks and nerds for advice. What are those nerds going to recommend? One hint, it's not going to be WP...
    Someone also made a point of how MS was going for the Apple consumers, who are more than likely not apart of those 10-50m reviewers. And as someone pointed out that having a file explorer was followed by a notification center, what was the number for that again? Curious about it
    11-05-2013 12:56 PM
  22. ag1986's Avatar
    Oh I comprehended well. I was spelling it out for you since, you know, we are referring to a "tech savvy" base of consumers, and we assume that those that can use a file explorer are "tech savvy". But I guess not "tech savvy" enough to know how to get around being a "developer"

    But I guess we split hairs to make a point
    1. Point was re custom SMS tones.

    2. Prev. post was stating it's possible on GDR3.

    3. Post in question was stating GDR3 is likely to be used by 'tech-savvy' users alone.


    On another note, WTF is up with the hatred of 'tech-savvy' users? A few years ago, the ability to send an email or use a word processor was considered tech-savvy. Now it's an essential life skill in many places, e.g the UK benefits system which is online only. The savviness of users is only evolving.
    11-05-2013 12:57 PM
  23. cckgz4's Avatar
    And anyone that comes to this forum faithfully doesn't have the right to call someone else a geek or a nerd
    JerseySal likes this.
    11-05-2013 12:57 PM
  24. cckgz4's Avatar
    1. Point was re custom SMS tones.

    2. Prev. post was stating it's possible on GDR3.

    3. Post in question was stating GDR3 is likely to be used by 'tech-savvy' users alone.


    On another note, WTF is up with the hatred of 'tech-savvy' users? A few years ago, the ability to send an email or use a word processor was considered tech-savvy. Now it's an essential life skill in many places, e.g the UK benefits system which is online only. The savviness of users is only evolving.
    Bingo. If people in countries know about file explorers and how to properly use them cause it's needed, I'm pretty sure they can do a quick search to find out how to get custom sms tones.
    11-05-2013 12:59 PM
  25. sahib lopez's Avatar
    1.Note the vote count for file manager in uservoice of MS.Most people want it.
    Sent from my RM-914_im_india_269 using Tapatalk
    let me stop you right there ......those are tech savy people, NOT the whole windows phone consumer base.
    berty6294 likes this.
    11-05-2013 01:21 PM
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