Why does WP 8 need a file explorer?

[Chris_Kez]

For me It's about:

• Being able to administer files and folders, i.e. create additional sub directories, change folder permissions, security, etc...

Down this path lies disappointment, I'm afraid. I get the sense that MS is specifically moving away from the idea that you'll be the "Admin" for your phone.

 

[ohgood]

Why?

To send a file to other devices.

Like waypoints, full resolution 1.5gb relief maps of an area, tracks, videos, photos, etc

And for those other devices to have the ability to receive those files.

A file manager is the easiest way to do it.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Why?

To send a file to other devices.

Like waypoints, full resolution 1.5gb relief maps of an area, tracks, videos, photos, etc

And for those other devices to have the ability to receive those files.

A file manager is the easiest way to do it.

So how does that information get on to your phone in the first place and how do you send it to the other person?

Why do you need your phone to move those files? What's wrong with Skydrive or just simply using a USB drive?

How does your phone play into that situation is what I'm asking. That's a lot of data.

 

[sahib lopez]

These "peeps" clearly do not need a smartphone at all. Please return to your Ashas.

so tell me why the majority of people have a smartphone ? Just because you and I mean only you need one that means that everyone needs one ?

 

[sahib lopez]

Perhaps you should get John's Phone - The World's Simplest Cell Phone | Covering mobile news from all over the world - easy to use, it won't confuse poor little you.

in what way did I say its confusing to me, I've been around computers for a while now , I have used Linux,windows, and mac os, also I've used android,ios,and windows phone, so before saying its confusing stick to the topic at hand instead of taking jabs at me ....ok ?

 

[sahib lopez]

I agree. I actually use my skydive account as a file manager. I don't need anything else.

Sent from my LG-D801 using WPCentral Forums mobile app

Yup same goes for me but we have to remember that not everyone has internet access :/

 

[sahib lopez]

Excellent post.

This is one of those mobile features I wonder who is really for it. You are going to move files and organize major documents.... on your PHONE?? I am not belittling it, I just find it amazing that there is a need for that. It is like some of the people who want to see MS put Power Point functionality on the mobile version of Office. How on Earth do you do that on even a larger screen phone? It sounds like to me one of those "better in theory then in real life" ideas. Tablets and Ultra Books make sense- so long as the real estate is large enough to make it practicle.

Then you throw in the casual user like what berty talks about, and you have that more harm then good example that would apply to what, maybe 70% of tech users? My wife was haaving a melt down trying to move a saved picture from a CD to her documents just recently. Just a pure, hide the kids, dogs cower under the couch, and husbands wish they were anywhere else on the planet type MELTDOWN, and all she had to do was "right click", select send to, and tell it where to go.

Can you imagine how much harder the process of undoing those mistakes are on a mobile device?

*shudders*

Much like the OP, I am not against it, I just wonder if there is enough need for it to offset the potential downside of using the seamless operation of our OS.

Yup I see that happen from time to time with people using computers .....and to do that on a phone ...is sort of a waste of effort when MSFT can be working on something else rly:

 

[sahib lopez]

Dear Aardappleboom,
If u stop seeing your situation as the ideal situation and the only situation,you would have realized why so many people are asking for a file explorer.Let's not try to strangle wishes by justifying even the shortcomings because that hinders urge for development.You need pointers.So,here they come:
1.When phones became smartphones,they started their journey towards being pocketable computers.Otherwise,why cramp 64 gb memory into it?So,if you fill your 32 gb internal and 32 gb external with thousands of songs and several thousands of photos,wouldn't you need to organize them in your own way?or you prefer a scrollnswipemania?
2.Necessity invents invention.File explorers have been a salient feature of smartphones since the Symbian days because it is essential.May be wp8 is oversmart but imagine a book with no index.You can see everything by turning and turning and turning its pages.Only thing is that you will need half an hour to find out a specific content you need.
3.Copy,cut,paste and customized folders are essential features of a file explorer.Now,take a situation.On Christmas Day or on a family picnic day,you shot 150 photos.wp8 would put them all under the same date.But won't you like to put them into folders like PARENT'S,WIFE,FRIENDS etc?

Sent from my Lumia using Tapatalk

Yes we do know that some people and I mean SOME you have to remember that wp8 does not revolve around certain type that will use a file manager,i for one wont use it because I have no use for it and the majority of people who pick up a windows phone think " dang I need to file this folder and I need to clean out this and I need to delete pictures " no they will buy it because it works and it looks new

 

[sahib lopez]

I think you underestimate the average consumer. I understand that anecdotes are not data, but let me share one here anyway - this may be specific to the India market

I visited home (India, Hyderabad to be specific) recently and my sister happened to break her GS3 Mini. I didn't want to buy her an expensive replacement because I plan to get us both Nexus 5s in January, so we went shopping for a cheap phone. Obviously, the Lumia 520 is better for her since all she does is call, text and Whatsapp, and she can keep it for a spare phone once she gets her Nexus. Like many people have said here, the salesman actively dissuaded us from buying a Lumia. Why? The return and complaint rates are extremely high. One major reason for this, he said, is the lack of a file manager.

Thing is, in a market like India your smartphone is more often than not your only computing device. People don't always have desktops or laptops, even or should I say especially students. They need this ability since the phone is their USB flash drive, media player, storage, everything.

BUT you just said what people use their phone as and you said that your sister mainly uses it for calling, texting, and whatsapp. And none of those require a file manager.That what most of the people use their smartphone .... to use APPS not manage their files and folders

 

[sahib lopez]

I see this thread will start heading in the direction of the other thread that discusses this topic to death. The other thread was a disaster and the reasons for having a file explorer never seem to be well made.

Anyway, let's get to the bare bones of this discussion.

On one side we have a group of people who firmly believe that a smartphone is mostly used for consumption these days and that a file explorer is confusing and not necessary.
On the other side we have a group who firmly believe that smartphones are small computers and require some form of file management as it's a requirement for them.
In the middle, you have people like me who believe that WP needs to do things better but not using a typical file manager approach.

Now for those who don't know the iPhone uses a similar system to WP in regards to documents, they use a sort of hub system. This should give you an indication of who MS was targeting with WP. They also don't do the attach file to email for documents. However, their APIs are open enough that good file explorer apps have been made and can be used by those who want one. If this is a good strategy I don't know as I'm not a programmer.

The other issue is surrounding the implementation of the SD card. Personally I think this was a huge mistake made by Nokia and MS. They should have avoided this and made a standard 16GB for low end phones. 99% of the complaints with file managers are based on not being able to access the SD cards internally on the phone. The SD is very limited on what files can be used on it. This I personally believe is a poor implementation and causes no end of issues. However, I will say this, I think documents on a SD card should be allowed, but not apps. I don't agree with this side loading nonsense. That's old school. We're not Android here.

So I'm a bit confused by those who want a file manager so badly. If the phone is your 'only' computing device what files are you worried about? How do you go about transferring files about? We keep hearing Skydrive isn't an option but then I hear words like 'email'. I don't get it. It's the same thing isn't it?

You can store any file you want on the SD card (using it like a USB storage) and on the phone. You can put documents (PDFs, Office) in the document folder on your phone and use them. You can store files on Skydrive and share them.

So where is the system falling down for you? Is it only with the SD storage? Is you phone storage completely used up? Do you not know about the folders in the phone storage or how to use them correctly? If you don't have access to WiFi or data how are you transferring files? Bluetooth?

These are things I'd like clarified. Please explain to everyone how you use your phone, in simple language, without anger, so that we can understand your needs. It's a bit confusing if we don't see what you're doing or how you do it or why.

You hit the nail on that one !!!!! I agree with you 100%

 

[ohgood]

So how does that information get on to your phone in the first place and how do you send it to the other person?

maps/tracks/waypoints/routes are created by the user, then shared by other users, via bluetooth, sdcard swaps, wifi, nfc (when applicable) etc

Why do you need your phone to move those files? What's wrong with Skydrive or just simply using a USB drive?

the phone is the origination of those files (with the exception of some maps). some databases can be split or portions split as needed for whatever the need is, on the phone. no laptop, tablet, or other heavy/bulky device is needed. skydrive (cloud services in general) require FAST cellular connectivity, for both devices, for a local exchange. the exchange is usually fairly remote or with poor cellular service. usb drive is like pouring water in 5 cups to share it between two people, in this case.

How does your phone play into that situation is what I'm asking. That's a lot of data.

well, the file / files get transferred to / from another device. wether it's a laptop, tablet, stand alone gps (rarer each day), phone, etc.




the file manager is actually not the bottleneck. the bottleneck is the apps and their respective restrictions of file usage / sharing in the OS. a traditional sense of filemanager is "here is my file, right click, put it somewhere else, open it with something else, etc"

better ?

 

[N_LaRUE]

better ?

No reason to be snarky. Just trying to get my head around what you're doing. What app is that you're using to do those things?

 

[berty6294]

If you need to transfer a lot data from device to device how is the phone the best choice??? They have these crazy inexpensive things called Flash Drives! They are like super cheap, portable, fast, and much easier to use! You can put one in your hat! You can keep it on your belt! On your keychain, shoelace, drawstring, pocket, backpack, wallet, purse, socks, underwear for god sake! You could swallow it if you wanted to! They are so small you could tape it to your leg and forget about it for weeks! (unless you bathe which I always suggest).

These things are more portable than a phone, less money than a phone, way WAY faster than a phone, and universally work with any computer you can find. Why is the phone a better choice?

 

[ag1986]

Yes we do know that some people and I mean SOME you have to remember that wp8 does not revolve around certain type that will use a file manager,i for one wont use it because I have no use for it and the majority of people who pick up a windows phone think " dang I need to file this folder and I need to clean out this and I need to delete pictures " no they will buy it because it works and it looks new

Nobody's buying WP at all, your point is invalid.

 

[ag1986]

BUT you just said what people use their phone as and you said that your sister mainly uses it for calling, texting, and whatsapp. And none of those require a file manager.That what most of the people use their smartphone .... to use APPS not manage their files and folders

I thought my point was comprehensible, but I clearly need to simplify:

1. I mentioned those usage habits to illustrate why we wanted a cheap phone. FYI that is not ALL she does by a long shot, just all she needed until I got us Nexus 5s. Other things she does are, read her pathology (a branch of medicine) textbooks, organise her day, read ebooks, e-comics and lots of other things.

2. In our pursuit of a Lumia 520, the sales man attempted to dissuade us (dissuade means to advise against, saying "don't do this)

3. Because it had a very high return rate. One of the reasons was a file manager.

I hope I've managed to clarify adequately.

 

[sahib lopez]

Nobody's buying WP at all, your point is invalid.

uh last time I checked the definition of nobody means and I quote "not one person: not one single person" and when you say nobody why do we even have this site if " nobody" has a phone and i thought about this thread was asking why we need or don't need a file manager which means this isn't a right or wrong answer so .....tell me again what you said makes my point invalid again? i would sure like to know what makes my post invalid? if you cant say anything that isn't related to this thread i think it will be wise to take the high road and not say anything so this doesn't turn in a your wrong thread...OK?

 

[sahib lopez]

I thought my point was comprehensible, but I clearly need to simplify:

1. I mentioned those usage habits to illustrate why we wanted a cheap phone. FYI that is not ALL she does by a long shot, just all she needed until I got us Nexus 5s. Other things she does are, read her pathology (a branch of medicine) textbooks, organise her day, read ebooks, e-comics and lots of other things.

2. In our pursuit of a Lumia 520, the sales man attempted to dissuade us (dissuade means to advise against, saying "don't do this)

3. Because it had a very high return rate. One of the reasons was a file manager.

I hope I've managed to clarify adequately.

ok you made it clear but that is your sister we are talking about not the whole would. like N_larue stated the majority of users will not use a file manager so how can you imply that windows phones need a file manager to make or fail in this market ?

 

[N_LaRUE]

Nobody's buying WP at all, your point is invalid.

So the increase in WP percentages in most markets, with some overtaking iPhone is 'nobody' in your eyes. I see we have a difference in opinion in what nobody means.

 

[xratola]

So the increase in WP percentages in most markets, with some overtaking iPhone is 'nobody' in your eyes. I see we have a difference in opinion in what nobody means.

I think he's saying that in this moment (conversation, discussion, argument or whatever we're having) nobody is buying a WP.

 

[jhoff80]

There are many reasons why it's necessary, but the biggest one is to get files into apps.

The only way right now to get epubs into an epub reader is to use a ridiculous workaround with Skydrive or other cloud storage services. You can't put files onto the protected storage area (which again, doesn't let you touch any system files) and read them from there. That means if you want to import ROMs into an emulator, or video files into a third-party video player or anything of that sort, you need to use the internet as a go-between.

Touching on this as well is that every developer needs to then write Skydrive integration into their own app. Windows Phone 8 does not use the "Contracts" model that Windows 8 uses, so the developer cannot just say "open a file picker and give Skydrive as a choice". Instead, it has to manually be coded into each app. That also means that the end-user has to manually give permission for each app to access Skydrive, meaning that you could be logging into your account hundreds of times just to log in with each app.

On top of that is the very basic need that many users (especially people who use their phone for business) have in which they need to email files that are not photos. Yes, you can currently go into the Office hub and use that to email a Word, Powerpoint, or Excel file no matter where you received it from. However, PDFs only show in the Office hub if you attach to a computer to put them onto the device. (Any PDF email attachments and PDFs downloaded from the internet do not show in the Office hub). So the only PDFs you can email require you to connect to a PC first.

A second part of that is that sometimes a user will want to attach multiple documents to a single email. Not possible with the current 'attach from a hub' model. Or sometimes a user will want to reply to a pre-existing email with a file attachment. Again, not possible with the current model.

People keep saying that a file explorer and file picker add complexity and security risk, and that's nonsense. Nobody is asking for access to every file on the phone. Obviously the OS files won't be viewable, and the installed apps' files (contents of xaps) won't be viewable. But there's already the protected storage that shows up when you connect your phone to the PC, and that should be a pool of storage that all apps can use, and that you can browse from your device. On top of that, they really should add in the contracts model so that every app developer gets Skydrive access 'for free' without any additional coding. A system-wide model makes much more sense, but more importantly, the current model prevents users from using their phone how they choose to.

Unfortunately, it's just more of the same basic functionality that Microsoft is far behind in on Windows Phone. But hey, so glad to have that Rooms feature, to communicate with all zero people I know using Windows Phones. :wink: