11-18-2013 09:13 AM
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  1. ag1986's Avatar
    What's not adult about it? It states the reality of the situation. Apple has been quite successful and has no SD card. I can see Android locking down more in the future as well, though my guess would be that people will aways find work around with Android.

    Being able to use a SD for apps should not be a deal breaker. My point was that everyone who buys a low end WP always wants to use the damn thing like and Android phone. It's not Android and it's not going to be like Android, ever. I wish people would start using their phones as intended instead of trying to create an Android II device. If you don't like the way WP works than use Android. That's what it's there for. That was my other point.
    What is "as intended"? As intended by Ballmer and Belfiore? Who are they to dictate what I can and cannot do with my phone? The focus should be on what the consumers WANT to do and enable that.
    11-18-2013 06:46 AM
  2. etad putta's Avatar
    Lets see, if i have no space on my phone, i can't install more apps. The majority of windows phones are entry level models, and that will continue to be the area of growth. They have the least amount of space so if they want more apps they may have to uninstall apps or just not download them. So you have a weak system and keep it weak. Why not help it's growth a little by allowing it's apps on the sd card. More space = more downloads=more developer money. Have the great microsoft "innovate" and figure out how to do this BETTER than android. There, i guess that wouldn't be just copying the way android does it then.
    11-18-2013 06:52 AM
  3. ag1986's Avatar
    What's not adult about it? It states the reality of the situation. Apple has been quite successful and has no SD card. I can see Android locking down more in the future as well, though my guess would be that people will aways find work around with Android.

    Being able to use a SD for apps should not be a deal breaker.
    If MS would get off their rear ends and fix the Other Storage problem, that would be helpful. Apple's phones are not plagued with that sort of bug. And when you have most games clocking in at 1-2 GB, then yes, it is a deal breaker.
    11-18-2013 06:54 AM
  4. link68759's Avatar
    Sorry, this is rubbish:



    In what way will allowing apps on a SD card make things better for devs? It makes their apps more prone to being copied, why would they want that?

    If you actually read the thread you would realiise that the OP started out by saying 'Android' does it. Hence my point. Everyone person keeps pointing to Android as a reason to improve things for WP. It's tiring. I keep hearing 'If WP doesn't adopt this 'thing that Android does' the market won't grow'. So, yeah I'm a little over hearing about what Android has. I don't care what Android has in the way of functions. I want WP to improve in it's own right.

    As for the lack of space, again I ask the question, how many apps do you need? How many do you use? How many do you actually buy? Are you actually telling me you filled your phone with apps already and have no space at all? Have you thought that maybe you don't need all those apps?

    Again, let me stress. I want WP to improve, I want it get better but I don't want it being an open system like Android prone to hacks. If you want that kind of system there's Android for that.
    you're stupid. Apps need like 7x their own size to even install, and on my Lumia 820 I have 8GB internal and 64GB SD. I can't fit any games on my phone at all, and I hardly have many apps. When I hard reset, my standard list of small games and apps brings me to 800mb of free space. If I want to play Halo, I need to not only hard reset, but also not restore my backup. Ridiculous. Meanwhile my SDcard sits there unused but for music and thank god for Nokia, downloaded maps.

    Now think of apps like metrotube where you can download videos, apps that let you download files (like the torrent app), any given video recording app, any app that generates a large cache, or any app that tries to support file formats wp already does (when reading the SD card wp refuses to let apps see certain file extensions, so it's either internal storage or use a PC to rename every file extension for the sake of your phone... What BS).

    Now consider how ****ily WP handles files. I download a video using the torrent app. Let's say the video is a modest 400mb. This is sitting on my internal storage because wp apps can't write to SD. If I try to open the video, what happens? It gets *copied* from torrent isolated store to video player app isolated store. Boom, 2x the space is consumed, and this rape of my internal storage takes a good minute.

    Apps NEED to be able to, if not be installed to the SD card, at LEAST have a shared storage area, and that area should be able to be the SD card. That doesn't resolve the huge space requirements for installing any given app though (300mb app? 1GB isn't enough free space to install it), nor apps with large caches. Ideally apps should be able to be placed on the SD, or at least given free write access for caches.
    11-18-2013 06:54 AM
  5. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    you're stupid.
    I don't think I'm stupid but if you want you can apologize because I never used that term with you. It's not necessary to use terms like that.

    Apps need like 7x their own size to even install, and on my Lumia 820 I have 8GB internal and 64GB SD. I can't fit any games on my phone at all, and I hardly have many apps. When I hard reset, my standard list of small games and apps brings me to 800mb of free space. If I want to play Halo, I need to not only hard reset, but also not restore my backup. Ridiculous. Meanwhile my SDcard sits there unused but for music and thank god for Nokia, downloaded maps.
    Funny. I have 2.3GB of apps/games on my phone, that's quite a few apps. I don't play Halo but I do have room if I want to. I personally think 8GB phones were a mistake and having a SD card a bigger mistake. Let's hope they remove the SD card in future phones and make it a minimum of 16GB, which of course won't make anyone happy.

    Now think of apps like metrotube where you can download videos, apps that let you download files (like the torrent app), any given video recording app, any app that generates a large cache, or any app that tries to support file formats wp already does (when reading the SD card wp refuses to let apps see certain file extensions, so it's either internal storage or use a PC to rename every file extension for the sake of your phone... What BS).
    I was wondering when this would come up. How about getting MetroTube to allow you to save your files to SD card? Would that make you happier, then ask for them program that into the app, don't blame MS for that. The ability to use SD cards is there for programmers.

    Now consider how ****ily WP handles files. I download a video using the torrent app. Let's say the video is a modest 400mb. This is sitting on my internal storage because wp apps can't write to SD. If I try to open the video, what happens? It gets *copied* from torrent isolated store to video player app isolated store. Boom, 2x the space is consumed, and it takes a good minite
    Yep on to more 'computer like' usage. Torrent files now. Brilliant. What's next?

    Apps NEED to be able to, if not be installed to the SD card, at LEAST have a shared storage area, and that area should be able to be the SD card.
    From what I understand, devs can use the SD card as storage. So why not ask them to fix their software?
    11-18-2013 07:07 AM
  6. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    If MS would get off their rear ends and fix the Other Storage problem, that would be helpful. Apple's phones are not plagued with that sort of bug. And when you have most games clocking in at 1-2 GB, then yes, it is a deal breaker.
    Ageed about the Other storage.
    11-18-2013 07:08 AM
  7. link68759's Avatar
    Also can I say how infuriating it is that the wp app and tapatalk bug out from writing a post that long and I have to finish in the browser, but wpcentral has no mobile site nor plain text editor for posts and IE is bugging out on the site?
    11-18-2013 07:09 AM
  8. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Lets see, if i have no space on my phone, i can't install more apps. The majority of windows phones are entry level models, and that will continue to be the area of growth. They have the least amount of space so if they want more apps they may have to uninstall apps or just not download them. So you have a weak system and keep it weak. Why not help it's growth a little by allowing it's apps on the sd card. More space = more downloads=more developer money. Have the great microsoft "innovate" and figure out how to do this BETTER than android. There, i guess that wouldn't be just copying the way android does it then.
    They weren't out to compete with Android. Haven't you figured that out yet? It was setup like an Apple device, not an Android device. Also keep in mind that W8 is generally a first run on the new kernnel. I pretty much expected it to be limited.
    11-18-2013 07:09 AM
  9. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    What is "as intended"? As intended by Ballmer and Belfiore? Who are they to dictate what I can and cannot do with my phone? The focus should be on what the consumers WANT to do and enable that.
    Again, if you actually understood the device you'd know that WP is like Apple, not Android. As intended means sandboxed apps..

    Also, as I've already stated, WP8 is the first run on the new kernnel. I expect things to get better from here. At least I hope. I just think too many people expected too much from the outset.
    11-18-2013 07:11 AM
  10. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Apps stored on SD card can be protected with some cryptographic system. Android does this and as far as I know, it hasn't been hacked. In any case, Android doesn't store the whole app on the SD card, only parts of it, so copying what's on the SD card will not give you the app. Also, app developers can choose whether to allow installation on SD card, so developers who are worried about their (paid) apps getting copied despite the DRM can disable the functionality.
    I'm not saying that because Android does something, WP should automatically do it. But piracy is not a valid reason not to provide the option. There may be other reasons, of course.

    I hope Microsoft don't have this attitude towards their customers' wishes.
    As I pointed out to others, WP was designed after Apple, not Android. The SD card was a mistake in my eyes personally. As for their attitude, their main concern is security. MS will not compromise on that. I do hope they will relax things a bit in the future.

    Also, I know you're not new to this, so you know as well as I that DRM is can be cracked. You should also know once on a SD card things can get easily copied.
    11-18-2013 07:14 AM
  11. ag1986's Avatar
    Again, if you actually understood the device you'd know that WP is like Apple, not Android. As intended means sandboxed apps..

    Also, as I've already stated, WP8 is the first run on the new kernnel. I expect things to get better from here. At least I hope. I just think too many people expected too much from the outset.
    I don't care about how old or new it is. MS is not some startup struggling for resources and having to release flawed products to make payroll. Any product entering a highly competitive market needs to be at least equal to or better than the existing contenders and WP is neither. MS has the money and the talent to fix these things. The fact that they haven't shows that a) they don't care or b) WP is a very low priority for MS. If something like WP had been released by a startup company they'd have gone bankrupt and shut shop by now.
    11-18-2013 07:19 AM
  12. ag1986's Avatar
    How about getting MetroTube to allow you to save your files to SD card? Would that make you happier, then ask for them program that into the app, don't blame MS for that. The ability to use SD cards is there for programmers.

    From what I understand, devs can use the SD card as storage. So why not ask them to fix their software?
    They cannot. Access to SD is read-only. See Microsoft.Phone.Storage Namespace ()
    11-18-2013 07:24 AM
  13. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I don't care about how old or new it is. MS is not some startup struggling for resources and having to release flawed products to make payroll. Any product entering a highly competitive market needs to be at least equal to or better than the existing contenders and WP is neither. MS has the money and the talent to fix these things. The fact that they haven't shows that a) they don't care or b) WP is a very low priority for MS. If something like WP had been released by a startup company they'd have gone bankrupt and shut shop by now.
    I don't disagree with you there.

    However, they are gaining market share and I suspect their WP8.1 update will be a very good update. So arguing what will happen in the future is futile. Things are the way they are now. Starting a thread in WPC telling MS what they should do doesn't solve any problems and they aren't going to tell you what they are doing either. You can make suggestions all you want in this forum or even at their user suggestion place but that doesn't mean they'll do it.

    Does WP need to get better? Yes, I don't think anyone will argue with you there. Does it need everything every other phone has, that's debatable and personal preference. To me if there's a ecosystem that suits you already why not use that? That's what I don't get. There's every possibility that WP may not become what you want for a few updates. Are you going to stick around and complain the whole time?

    Myself personally I've decided to see what happens. If WP doesn't produce the goods to what I want than I'm going elsewhere. Simple. I'm not going to moan about it. I'm quite capable of using other mobile platforms.

    I guess that's the difference. I've accepted the fact that WP is the way it is. I accept it as is and I'm willing to wait and see. Unfortunately there's not many like me.
    11-18-2013 07:28 AM
  14. link68759's Avatar
    I don't think I'm stupid but if you want you can apologize because I never used that term with you. It's not necessary to use terms like that.



    Funny. I have 2.3GB of apps/games on my phone, that's quite a few apps. I don't play Halo but I do have room if I want to. I personally think 8GB phones were a mistake and having a SD card a bigger mistake. Let's hope they remove the SD card in future phones and make it a minimum of 16GB, which of course won't make anyone happy.



    I was wondering when this would come up. How about getting MetroTube to allow you to save your files to SD card? Would that make you happier, then ask for them program that into the app, don't blame MS for that. The ability to use SD cards is there for programmers.



    Yep on to more 'computer like' usage. Torrent files now. Brilliant. What's next?



    From what I understand, devs can use the SD card as storage. So why not ask them to fix their software?
    you know very little about how wp SD access works.

    Devs have limited(!) read access and no write access. All app activity is restricted to internal space.

    Having SD cards is basic functionality for all phones- especially considering WP's terrible use of the bad MTP protocol. Transferring files to my phone would be a nightmare without having an SD to remove and NOT use the ****ty mtp. How is expandable storage "a mistake"? What on earth gave you such a foolish notion? While I agree more internal is good, users should always have the option to expand storage, and also have removable storage.

    So you see, SD support on WP is terrible and needs to be improved. Then moving apps to the SD card would be icing on the cake.
    11-18-2013 07:36 AM
  15. JustinianIV's Avatar
    How many apps do you need on your phone? Most apps are not that big and going by the 'average' user most people don't use more than 20 apps. I think the bigger issue is with apps space usage. The 'other' storage issue is another one of those things as well.

    Lastly, you can't be a power user on a low end device. That's the impression I keep getting with these types of comments. People get a low end phone and want the world. Doesn't work like that. The only thing I see coming for SD cards is probably MS documents and that's it.

    I'm not a developer but from my understanding the dev can set their app to use the SD card as storage, most don't bother though. Maybe request that?
    Who said anything about being a power-user or having a low-end device? I have a Lumia 820. At the time when I bought it, the 920 was Nokia's flagship phone and the flagship phone for WP8. The 820's specs are very similar to the 920's. This means that I am using what is supposed to be one of the top-of-the-line WP8 phones. Today the 820 is still far far away from being a low-end phone by any stretch of the imagination.

    If I were using the 520 or 620, then I wouldn't be complaining about the storage issue as these are low-end phones. As it stands, I have a top-end phone which was never adequate for storage.

    Also, I am by no means an app-junkie. I have a total of 3.3gb for Apps, 2.3gb Media files, 1.9gb System and the rest is "Other". I have all my pictures, videos and songs on SD card. The apps DO take up a lot of space. As an example, my kid wanted the game Where's My Water 2, which ended up taking up over 700mb on day one once it was installed.
    11-18-2013 08:02 AM
  16. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    So you see, SD support on WP is terrible and needs to be improved. Then moving apps to the SD card would be icing on the cake.
    Yes SD cards on WP are terrible which is why they should never have had them. They've been nothing but a problem since implementation. I still doubt they'll move apps to the SD card. But whatever. I'm not arguing anymore as those with SD cards will continue come up with reasons why you're right and everyone else is wrong.

    Hopefully your SD cards will get some improvement with WP8.1 otherwise I suggest you move to Android as I think that's where you'll be happier.
    11-18-2013 08:11 AM
  17. etad putta's Avatar
    Who said anything about being a power-user or having a low-end device? I have a Lumia 820. At the time when I bought it, the 920 was Nokia's flagship phone and the flagship phone for WP8. The 820's specs are very similar to the 920's. This means that I am using what is supposed to be one of the top-of-the-line WP8 phones. Today the 820 is still far far away from being a low-end phone by any stretch of the imagination.

    If I were using the 520 or 620, then I wouldn't be complaining about the storage issue as these are low-end phones. As it stands, I have a top-end phone which was never adequate for storage.

    Also, I am by no means an app-junkie. I have a total of 3.3gb for Apps, 2.3gb Media files, 1.9gb System and the rest is "Other". I have all my pictures, videos and songs on SD card. The apps DO take up a lot of space. As an example, my kid wanted the game Where's My Water 2, which ended up taking up over 700mb on day one once it was installed.
    I guess that other guy thinks having apps is a bad thing. From everything i read apps are still just about the only thing holding this phone platform back. And on the topic of low end phones, even a 520\521 is a very powerful device for "low end".
    11-18-2013 08:16 AM
  18. link68759's Avatar
    Yes SD cards on WP are terrible which is why they should never have had them. They've been nothing but a problem since implementation. I still doubt they'll move apps to the SD card. But whatever. I'm not arguing anymore as those with SD cards will continue come up with reasons why you're right and everyone else is wrong.

    Hopefully your SD cards will get some improvement with WP8.1 otherwise I suggest you move to Android as I think that's where you'll be happier.
    So your position is, "I don't use SD therefore no one ever should need them, WP implemented it poorly so they should just remove it, if you disagree with me go use android"?

    Do you troll?
    11-18-2013 08:17 AM
  19. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Who said anything about being a power-user or having a low-end device? I have a Lumia 820. At the time when I bought it, the 920 was Nokia's flagship phone and the flagship phone for WP8. The 820's specs are very similar to the 920's. This means that I am using what is supposed to be one of the top-of-the-line WP8 phones. Today the 820 is still far far away from being a low-end phone by any stretch of the imagination.
    The 820 is a nice phone. However it was horrible mistake to make it only 8GB with a SD card. Should have been minimum 16GB and maybe an SD card.

    If I were using the 520 or 620, then I wouldn't be complaining about the storage issue as these are low-end phones. As it stands, I have a top-end phone which was never adequate for storage.
    You'd be rare than. Most people seem to feel that when they buy a phone, regardless of specs they should get the best everything.

    Also, I am by no means an app-junkie. I have a total of 3.3gb for Apps, 2.3gb Media files, 1.9gb System and the rest is "Other". I have all my pictures, videos and songs on SD card. The apps DO take up a lot of space. As an example, my kid wanted the game Where's My Water 2, which ended up taking up over 700mb on day one once it was installed.
    I keep forgetting that app=games. Yes games are a different thing entirely and yes they do take up space.
    11-18-2013 08:18 AM
  20. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    So your position is, "I don't use SD therefore no one ever should need them, WP implemented it poorly so they should just remove it, if you disagree with me go use android"?

    Do you troll?
    I am not a troll. Second I can point to several threads of people complaining about issues with SD cards. My point was and will be that SD cards are problematic and instead have larger storage in phones. This of course won't satisfy those who believe that SD cards are the greatest things but I personally don't like them as I've seen the issues on these threads and first hand experience. I don't trust them as they can be unreliable. Does that make things clear for you?
    11-18-2013 08:22 AM
  21. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I guess that other guy thinks having apps is a bad thing. From everything i read apps are still just about the only thing holding this phone platform back. And on the topic of low end phones, even a 520\521 is a very powerful device for "low end".
    Yes and it would appear everyone wants to hold tonnes of apps on their phone all the time. The idea of limits seems to bother people for some reason.

    The whole point of this thread is that the OP was claiming devs won't make apps because there's no space on the phones. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would a dev care about that?

    Please explain that point. Make sense of that. I can't.
    11-18-2013 08:24 AM
  22. neo158's Avatar
    Yes SD cards on WP are terrible which is why they should never have had them. They've been nothing but a problem since implementation. I still doubt they'll move apps to the SD card. But whatever. I'm not arguing anymore as those with SD cards will continue come up with reasons why you're right and everyone else is wrong.

    Hopefully your SD cards will get some improvement with WP8.1 otherwise I suggest you move to Android as I think that's where you'll be happier.
    I have to disagree on removing SD Cards altogether, they are useful for storing media on to free up internal space for apps. Could it use improvement, yes it could.

    I do agree that just because Android can do something, it doesn't mean that WP should be able to do it.

    What WP really needs is a permanent fix for the Other Storage issue, that would free up a huge amount of space.
    11-18-2013 08:26 AM
  23. link68759's Avatar
    Everyone keeps talking about other storage like it hasn't been resolved yet... GDR3 is easily obtained by "developers", becoming a "developer" is trivial, and there is no such thing as other storage in gdr3...
    11-18-2013 08:29 AM
  24. etad putta's Avatar
    Yes SD cards on WP are terrible which is why they should never have had them. They've been nothing but a problem since implementation. I still doubt they'll move apps to the SD card. But whatever. I'm not arguing anymore as those with SD cards will continue come up with reasons why you're right and everyone else is wrong.

    Hopefully your SD cards will get some improvement with WP8.1 otherwise I suggest you move to Android as I think that's where you'll be happier.
    If all of us with sd cards move to android platform, there will be no windows phone. We will welcome you when you are forced to come over. Until then maybe just humor us.
    11-18-2013 08:31 AM
  25. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Everyone keeps talking about other storage like it hasn't been resolved yet... GDR3 is easily obtained by "developers", becoming a "developer" is trivial, and there is no such thing as other storage in gdr3...
    Without getting into a discussion about that, it would appear GDR3 doesn't fix things, though I haven't been able to get a clear answer as to what people do with their phones that may cause the large other storage.
    etad putta likes this.
    11-18-2013 08:33 AM
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