12-24-2013 03:21 PM
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  1. Binoya Mathews's Avatar
    So this is the final verdict:
    read carefully.
    Although windows phones like 520 ,620, 720 etc has 512 mb ram... Microsoft has made a glitch in the system that states that apps can only use 130 mb of the ram..and those games that uses more than 130 mb ram eg. Temple run 2 ,subway surfers etc. Cant be played. Therefore the fault is actually within the os and we should actually thank the app publishers who work so hard to bring these games even with the restrictions. Thank you developers.
    Its got nothing to do with this so called low app memory cap. The developers always make it a point that their app gets released for the iPhone 4 and the 4S(512 MB). The iPhone also DOES NOT support true multitasking. The multitasking implemented in iOS 7 is more dependant on the type of application and how much memory is allotted to each app is also based on that.So the point is, until windows phone gain enough traction, the developers whose sole source of income is the one or two titles(except for the big names Gameloft,EA and Rovio) do not have time to optimise the games for the platform, simply because it isn`t worth it for them . However they do try, and sometimes succeed in optimising the games, even if that is after a couple of months.
    Just give them time, arguing over this here isn`t going to change or increase the priority for the optimisation on windows phone. Instead politely request them and lets hope that windows phone has a successful 2014 which would help make things better for the platform and thus increase developer interest in the platform.
    12-22-2013 06:58 AM
  2. Mohamed Ashid's Avatar
    Its totally up to ms to raise the bar a little so that more developers will be encouraged to make apps/games for wp.
    12-22-2013 06:59 AM
  3. TheNet Avenger's Avatar
    1) WP8 is NOT using more RAM than Android or iOS.

    2) iOS Apps are not faster or more efficient than WP8 Apps (despite 'developers' claims above).

    3) Microsoft purposely caps available RAM on a 512mb device to 150mb by default, or 180mb if requested by the developer.

    4) 180mb of RAM is plenty for games, unless the developer is trying create a game that rivals the Xbox 360. None of these games do or will be anytime soon. (However, if a developer does want to produce a game that looks as good as the PS3/XB360, they can target the 1gb or 2gb WP8 phones, and have enough RAM.)


    So why does Microsoft use a hard cap for App RAM usage? Well, the answer comes from metrics used to keep the OS running smoothly without hurting critical background processes. WP8 is reliably fast and fluid, and Microsoft won't let crappy Apps/Games compromise this.


    Let's contrast this to Android, and what happens...

    On Android if the Game/App is using over 140mb of RAM on a 512mb device, key portions of the OS and critical background Apps will be unloaded from RAM.

    This is why you find Android users on lower RAM devices complaining that 'messages' stopped or they didn't receive a notification or missed a call.

    When faced with low RAM, Android scrambles to keep what it thinks is important alive, but will cycle off critical processes while doing this, and sometimes is unable to start them again until the Game/App is closed. Android may even terminate an active phone call trying to free RAM for a Game/App that uses too much RAM.

    Android also becomes lethargic and slow to respond while running a Game/App that is consuming too much RAM, and slow to recover even after it has been closed.


    In contrast...
    WP8 is always fluid, no matter what Game/App/Apps the user has open. This is why getting back to the Start screen is instant, and firing up the camera or other Apps while playing Halo is always predictably FAST.


    Future Thoughts...
    Microsoft may expand the RAM cap for 512mb devices; however, as I mentioned above, unless the developer is trying to shove near 720p graphics, there really is not a good argument for using over the 180mb of RAM limit. (The majority of 512mb devices don't even have high resolution displays.)

    Developers do get lazy, and there is also overhead left over in porting to deal with that can later be optimized. This is why you see a 1gb version of the game release first, with a 512mb version a few weeks later. They can get the game out faster on the 1gb devices and then optimize for the OS and DirectX and meet the 180mb RAM limit. (This way no time is lost in getting the game out.)

    Again, if 180mb of RAM doesn't seem like a lot, remember that stunning 720p PS3/XB360 games only had around 400mb of RAM to use.


    PS - The game that brought this topic up is coming out for 512mb devices, just give them a few weeks.
    12-22-2013 07:05 AM
  4. Binoya Mathews's Avatar
    The apps / games get released to iphone which has 512 mb because their devices can use half of ram for games whereas wp can use only a quarter of the ram. Hence the difference .
    Well, wasn`t aware of that. If that is so,it is again a restriction , don`t feel it`s going to be changed though because 512 MB devices are being phased out of the market.
    12-22-2013 07:18 AM
  5. Mohamed Ashid's Avatar
    Why are we fighting with each other?
    We are on the same team and nothing we say here is going to change the current state of things . I also have a 620(512 mb ram) and also hope that support comes soon. Lets all hope for the best.
    Binoya Mathews and hidayat225 like this.
    12-22-2013 07:26 AM
  6. Binoya Mathews's Avatar
    1) WP8 is NOT using more RAM than Android or iOS.
    Thanks for the detailed response :)
    12-22-2013 07:26 AM
  7. monzki's Avatar
    It requires 513MB of RAM. Your 512MB is only 1MB short :)

    As stated above, a 512MB phone only has some where around 250MB RAM left for all apps. As such each app is limited to 130MB by default so that it won't slow down the phone OS or crash. WIth a special permission, some apps can be allowed to slightly increase the memory cap.

    130MB is not much RAM to work with especially with games.
    If apps on 512mb device is limited on 130mb, it means WP is not optimized at runtime. How can you explain that Temple Run 2 can run on on an ipod touch 4th gen with iOS 6 (the iOS version when Apple started pulling out Google services) and with just 256mb RAM. The better explanation maybe is than WP8 is graphics intensive than iOS 6. If this is the case then the devs of Temple Run 2 would need to work harder to optimize Temple Run 2 to run on a 512mb RAM WP8 device.

    If Minion Rush can run on 512mb, why can't Temple Run 2 (to think they have a setting for low graphics settings).


    O.T. TheNet Avenger explains things precisely. Thank you.

    So it's more of developer fault than WP, it does make sense.
    Last edited by monzki; 12-22-2013 at 09:08 AM.
    12-22-2013 08:57 AM
  8. monzki's Avatar
    Clearly you are an impatient person.
    As well as people who upgraded to GDR3 through Developer Preview. We are impatient.
    12-22-2013 08:58 AM
  9. monzki's Avatar
    If games that can run on iOS with 256 mb ram properly can't run on WP with 512 MB ram, does It not defy the logic that the whole argument of WP being a light OS and not a hardware hog like Android? Which should eventually result into WP devices being more and more like Android requiring all the latest and greatest hardware to run the basic apps properly?
    Or am I missing something here? Can anyone clarify?
    That's what the TS bashers are pointing about, they want to force TS to upgrade which in reality you can't force people to upgrade their hardware. The devs and MS need to find a way to satisfy the market for them to succeed.
    12-22-2013 09:00 AM
  10. KrisJoeEll's Avatar
    "Optimising 1gb games to 512mb is easily possible."
    Haha. You must be jocking. Its not easy as you think. The developers work extremely hard for providing support .
    About the 130 mb ram limit everyone who knows little about windows phone knows that. Still you dont!!
    512 mb ram devices can only use 130 mb of ram for games/ apps . Its a limitation of wp. Thata why developers are not able to provide us(512 mb ram users) their best games. So instead of blaming others and saying that" its easy" ,we should try to appreciate their hard work .
    I was not joking my friend. If devs could make games like Asphalt 8, Halo SA, Mirrors Edge, Minion Rush (etc) work smoothly on 512mb devices they could *easily* optimize Temple run 2 , Angry birds GO & Subway surfer.
    Last edited by KrisJoeEll; 12-22-2013 at 10:19 AM.
    12-22-2013 09:08 AM
  11. monzki's Avatar
    Why are we fighting with each other?
    We are on the same team and nothing we say here is going to change the current state of things . I also have a 620(512 mb ram) and also hope that support comes soon. Lets all hope for the best.
    For me, maybe I just got annoyed when people asked TS to upgrade when it is very unnecessary since Temple Run 2 can run on a 256mb device.
    12-22-2013 09:09 AM
  12. Dantekai14's Avatar
    I am little confuse here

    Is WP 130MB or 150MB RAM(whatever) restriction is responsible for this problem or
    Developers laziness or
    Developers aren't interested making apps for WP because they think WP isn't worth their time and hard work?

    I think these all things are combined responsible for this problem. Now it's becoming a trend in WP that all new apps/games support first 1GB RAM devices then after few months it will come for 512MB RAM devices and I think budget we should get prepare even for worse because we might see many apps which will never comes on 512MB RAM devices.
    Anyway I'll soon leave WP(may be in next 3-4 months) because it didn't stand on my expectation. WP is my first smartphone may be it's time I'll give a try to Android or iOS.

    One more question if anyone knows - is Joe Belfiore is somehow involved in developing this apps?

    @TheNet Avenger - about your second point ,You should check Temple Run on iPhone 3gs and WP 512MB RAM devices. You'll notice that you are wrong about this.
    12-22-2013 09:15 AM
  13. Binoya Mathews's Avatar
    I am little confuse here

    Is WP 130MB or 150MB RAM(whatever) restriction is responsible for this problem or
    Developers laziness or
    Developers aren't interested making apps for WP because they think WP isn't worth their time and hard work?

    I think these all things are combined responsible for this problem. Now it's becoming a trend in WP that all new apps/games support first 1GB RAM devices then after few months it will come for 512MB RAM devices and I think budget we should get prepare even for worse because we might see many apps which will never comes on 512MB RAM devices.
    Anyway I'll soon leave WP(may be in next 3-4 months) because it didn't stand on my expectation. WP is my first smartphone may be it's time I'll give a try to Android or iOS.

    One more question if anyone knows - is Joe Belfiore is somehow involved in developing this apps?

    @TheNet Avenger - about your second point ,You should check Temple Run on iPhone 3gs and WP 512MB RAM devices. You'll notice that you are wrong about this.
    Here you can find more about the app memory cap restrictions App memory limits for Windows Phone 8
    Yep, its got to do with all of those reasons ,but the memory cap has been put there to ensure it doesn`t lead to any lag on the phone. At the same time having more RAM for an application in the case of iOS would ensure smoother operation. So, it needs to be increased IMO but as I said there won`t be too many 512 MB devices in the future, so that just about solves it.
    Joe Belfiore beta tests the big app releases. AFAIK he did that with Vine. So possibly he may be doing it in the case of a few apps esp. games when like this which may need work on optimisation.
    And well,if you are in fact switching, i hate to say this but even now iOS is the best option, thank you Microsoft for being so late to take the mobile world seriously:P
    Dantekai14 likes this.
    12-22-2013 10:17 AM
  14. iamtim's Avatar
    Clearly you are not answering anything here
    Yes, I am. So are many other people. You're just not a developer so you don't understand the process. You're also very impatient and you want everything NOW.

    Clearly it's WP fault that they are not able to make this OS interesting for developers in 3 years.
    So with Vine and Instagram and Gameloft and all the other apps coming to WP in the last few months, you're going to sit here and say that it's a developer interest issue? You just don't get it... it's a market share issue. Without the market share, developers aren't going to spend a whole lot of time porting and optimizing their apps. Now that the market share is arriving, we're getting more apps and as the market share grows they'll get more and more optimized. Any developer worth their salt IS interested in spreading their apps to every platform available, but it has to be worth their time.

    Clearly early adopter are paying the price for it.
    Clearly WP users(own 512MB RAM devices and which is majority also) aren't happy with this.
    Clearly WP developers have to do something about this instead of making users wait more.
    I don't necessarily disagree with this. You just need to relax and let the developers do what they do. It's not as easy as you think.

    One more question if anyone knows - is Joe Belfiore is somehow involved in developing this apps?
    He's the "Microsoft guy". He's not involved with the actual development of non-Microsoft apps, but he is very much "in the know". So, like, he's probably the guy who interfaced with Instagram and Vine and Gameloft to get their development on WP going.
    12-22-2013 10:49 AM
  15. anon(7900571)'s Avatar
    Ok let me do some quick test on ios , how it manages ram while playing a simple game like subway surfers. Will post the screen shoot soon. This will clear how ios is different from window phone and android. I will be using my ipad 3 which have a dual core CPU with 1GB ram and quad core graphics and still lags a lot due to latest ios 7 bugs lol.
    12-22-2013 12:31 PM
  16. anon(7900571)'s Avatar
    imageuploadedbywpcentral-forums1387737245.904310.jpg
    Specifications of my iPad

    imageuploadedbywpcentral-forums1387737315.467197.jpg
    All applications are closed. Nothing was running in the background and it was using 626 MB of ram idle(ios7 does uses more ram ,services like game centre icloud can't be closed similar to windows phone background services like email,xbox,skydrive etc )

    imageuploadedbywpcentral-forums1387737466.238935.jpg
    Played subway surfers

    imageuploadedbywpcentral-forums1387737573.187860.jpg
    Subway surfers alone took 241 MB of ram all alone as you can see. And it was lil laggy sometimes but when compared to my Lumia 920. Lumia 920 wins this race.


    Moral :- when we compare two different os, they have different types of ram management ,they handle stuffs differently.windows phone is by far the best os as it requires less ram,resources (don't compare android here hehe).
    People asking for games on 512MB. I will say just wait for few days, let the developers re build the app for 512mb ram. It does require lot of time,energy to compile the codes.its confirmed that everyone will get these games as said by joe ( creator of WP) on twitter.so patience is what I can say. As of now 1gb ram users are like bet testers. There are bugs in temple run 2 which will be fixed slowly in commimg updates with support for 512mb devices.

    Happy holidays and merry Christmas xxx




    Sent from my iPad using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    hidayat225 and KrisJoeEll like this.
    12-22-2013 12:47 PM
  17. greedypnguin's Avatar
    Off topic but has anybody successfully used the proxy trick after gdr3 dev preview
    12-22-2013 01:01 PM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    Well, wasn`t aware of that. If that is so,it is again a restriction , don`t feel it`s going to be changed though because 512 MB devices are being phased out of the market.
    WP has always worked like that, from the very first day.

    What you and others don't quite yet grasp (which is completely understandable if you lack a background in software development), is that this is neither a glitch nor an arbitrary restriction. This is a conscious design decision, that has benefits as well as trade-offs. Those who interpret this is a sign of WP requiring more "optimization", just don't understand software to the depth required to make sense of what is going on. This is actually an optimization! It is simply optimizing other aspects of the system; aspects which most probably aren't aware of.

    This memory management scheme allows WP to reduce memory heap fragmentation and increase the speed of memory allocation operations, compared to the scenario where no assumptions about maximal memory usage can be made. This also allows WP to guarantee that a predetermined amount of RAM will always be available to every app, every time. That makes app development "easier" and more robust. This represents a vast simplification compared to scenarios where developers can never quite be sure about how much RAM they have at their disposal, particularly for apps that make heavy use of the heap (as opposed to more static runtime memory management) and that could make good use of large amounts of RAM.

    IMHO WP's memory management scheme is very good, and particularly well suited for a smartphone that must work reliably and deterministically without virtual memory and memory swap files. Is it perfect? No. But no memory management scheme is. It is a more robust scheme than what iOS and Android offer.

    What I do think MS should reconsider, is how they rely on RAM capacity to segment the market. RAM is cheap, but almost all WP devices ship with only 512 MB RAM, except for the highest end devices. I think that should be switched around, so that almost all WP devices come with at least 1GB or RAM, except for the lowest end devices (probably only the L520/L525). If at that point someone still buys a device that has too little RAM for the games they want to play, I'd say they have only themselves to blame. Expecting the cheapest device to be as capable as the most expensive is obviously obtuse. As it is now, there are too many mid range devices with the same low memory limitations, and you'll never get people to understand or think about the consequences of choosing the 512 MB device over the 1GB device. That is what MS needs to think about changing... the memory management scheme itself is fine.
    Last edited by a5cent; 12-22-2013 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Spelling
    12-22-2013 02:36 PM
  19. Dantekai14's Avatar
    Thanks! for the answer.
    So, WP allot less RAM(180MB) to apps/ games.

    Then I curious about how Android works. I checked two less RAM phones Xperia U and Galaxy S advance. Android actually employ less RAM for OS. For application it show 368MB RAM(Xperia U) or 555MB RAM(Galaxy S Advance). That means Android is better for apps/games because where WP force developers to use less RAM or resources.

    Am I right here? or may be it was graphic.

    So, which OS employ more resources? which OS is better for apps?
    12-22-2013 08:26 PM
  20. anon(7900571)'s Avatar
    Thanks! for the answer.
    So, WP allot less RAM(180MB) to apps/ games.

    Then I curious about how Android works. I checked two less RAM phones Xperia U and Galaxy S advance. Android actually employ less RAM for OS. For application it show 368MB RAM(Xperia U) or 555MB RAM(Galaxy S Advance). That means Android is better for apps/games because where WP force developers to use less RAM or resources.

    Am I right here?
    na android is a resource hungry os, it requires quad core chipsets,1/2gb ram. even if the phone have 1gigabyte of ram it consumes 50-60% of it rest is remained for the games.there are many background task running by google(framework,syn,backup,playstore services. same applies to ios gamecentre,icloud,backup,dynamic wallpapers,etc).
    12-22-2013 08:32 PM
  21. FinancialP's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByWPCentral Forums1387737245.904310.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	155.1 KB 
ID:	52579
    Specifications of my iPad

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByWPCentral Forums1387737315.467197.jpg 
Views:	51 
Size:	122.0 KB 
ID:	52580
    All applications are closed. Nothing was running in the background and it was using 626 MB of ram idle(ios7 does uses more ram ,services like game centre icloud can't be closed similar to windows phone background services like email,xbox,skydrive etc )

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByWPCentral Forums1387737466.238935.jpg 
Views:	52 
Size:	172.9 KB 
ID:	52581
    Played subway surfers

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByWPCentral Forums1387737573.187860.jpg 
Views:	51 
Size:	126.1 KB 
ID:	52582
    Subway surfers alone took 241 MB of ram all alone as you can see. And it was lil laggy sometimes but when compared to my Lumia 920. Lumia 920 wins this race.


    Moral :- when we compare two different os, they have different types of ram management ,they handle stuffs differently.windows phone is by far the best os as it requires less ram,resources (don't compare android here hehe).
    People asking for games on 512MB. I will say just wait for few days, let the developers re build the app for 512mb ram. It does require lot of time,energy to compile the codes.its confirmed that everyone will get these games as said by joe ( creator of WP) on twitter.so patience is what I can say. As of now 1gb ram users are like bet testers. There are bugs in temple run 2 which will be fixed slowly in commimg updates with support for 512mb devices.

    Happy holidays and merry Christmas xxx




    Sent from my iPad using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    That's a real fair comparison huh? A tablet with a 9.7 inch screen, vs a phone? Sure....

    Here is subway surfers on a iPhone 3GS(yes a phone from 2009 is playing 2013 games just fine) with 256mb of RAM running just fine.



    Give the developers time.
    12-22-2013 09:03 PM
  22. anon(7900571)'s Avatar
    That's a real fair comparison huh? A tablet with a 9.7 inch screen, vs a phone? Sure....

    Here is subway surfers on a iPhone 3GS(yes a phone from 2009 is playing 2013 games just fine) with 256mb of RAM running just fine.



    Give the developers time.
    hahah since I don't have iPhone (sold and get a new Lumia 920 last year ) , I was only left with my new iPad.I wish I would have opted Microsoft surface :/
    12-22-2013 09:06 PM
  23. FinancialP's Avatar
    na android is a resource hungry os, it requires quad core chipsets,1/2gb ram. even if the phone have 1gigabyte of ram it consumes 50-60% of it rest is remained for the games.there are many background task running by google(framework,syn,backup,playstore services. same applies to ios gamecentre,icloud,backup,dynamic wallpapers,etc).
    Which version of android are you talking about, Gingerbread? You can't be talking about Jelly Bean, or kit kat.

    Why would you even throw iOS in the mix with Android?
    Binoya Mathews likes this.
    12-22-2013 09:06 PM
  24. anon(7900571)'s Avatar
    Which version of android are you talking about, Gingerbread? You can't be talking about Jelly Bean, or kit kat.

    Why would you even throw iOS in the mix with Android?
    I didn't mentioned the version, I have used galaxy s4 couple of times and whenever I open up the task manager it eats 60% of memory. Have to clean up the ram to make the phone back on its speed.i guess its not android to do, scamsung has customized it with its own so called touch wiz UI which is itself lagy,even on a quad core phone with 2gigs of ram.
    12-22-2013 09:09 PM
  25. FinancialP's Avatar
    hahah since I don't have iPhone (sold and get a new Lumia 920 last year ) , I was only left with my new iPad.I wish I would have opted Microsoft surface :/
    Lol, I'm making the same face. I missed the original Surface RT $169 sale.

    I might have to bite the bullet and pay full price.
    anon(7900571) likes this.
    12-22-2013 09:10 PM
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