12-29-2013 11:23 AM
62 123
tools
  1. manicottiK's Avatar
    Makes sense. It's especially frustrating because live tiles were supposed to be one of the killer features of the platform, but turned out to be such a liability.
    One of the problems is that few apps provide "Live" tiles, instead offering "Occasional" or "Intermittent" tiles. The difference is that "live" ones can be pushed out at any time by a server while the "intermittent" ones are the result of a periodic task running on the phone every 30 minutes or so. The latter is needed when the phone has a piece of information that a server doesn't (like the phone's current geolocation).

    In our app, the count on the tile is managed by real push from a server and can change at any time; the text that appears on the wide tile is managed by the periodic task, so it only updates every half hour or when you start the app. It's a good compromise, but like any push-based service, it requires a lot more programming work and a server. Our audience is small because it's only students of our university. If we had to pay for servers for a large population and if those folks weren't paying for the app (or the push feature), I'm not sure how we'd justify the cost. This is likely why so many apps use the intermittent/non-server method.
    Loco5150 likes this.
    12-27-2013 03:20 PM
  2. tgp's Avatar
    Makes sense. It's especially frustrating because live tiles were supposed to be one of the killer features of the platform, but turned out to be such a liability.
    Besides not being reliable, the logistics of the Live Tile system has a flaw: it's not "central." The notifications are not all at one place. You cannot look at one place and see all your notifications. And if you have more than what fits on the top of your home screen, they're not all visible without scrolling. I think there should be a live tile with all notifications showing there. Tap it to open, roughly similar to iOS or Android's pull down or up method.
    12-27-2013 04:00 PM
  3. manicottiK's Avatar
    Warning: second long-winded/off-topic response of the day.

    ...the logistics of the Live Tile system has a flaw: it's not "central." The notifications are not all at one place. You cannot look at one place and see all your notifications.
    Despite what many folks will say about tiles and notifications, tiles are NOT a replacement for or an equivalent of notifications. Tiles are most akin to Android's widgets crossed with iOS home screen of app icons. The fact that tiles don't make for a great centralized notification center isn't a flaw any more than the fact that my food processor not making for a great automobile isn't a flaw -- they're different things solving different problems. (Note, that does leave WP without a centralized notification center, but that's a separate issue that's supposed to be addressed with WP 8.1.)

    Regarding notifications, push notification services exist for Android, iOS, and Windows Phone. In all three cases the "thing" pushed to the phone is a short message that's displayed; tapping the message opens the app. In the case of iOS and WP, a counter can also be made to show on the app's icon (in the case of iOS) or tile (in the case of WP). Solely in the case of Windows, a second kind of push notification can be sent -- a tile update. These can change the title, icon, background image, text, and back of the tile.

    The "tile pushing service" does not exist for iOS because iOS has nothing as large as a tile on which to display things. While there aren't tiles in the Android world,there are widgets, which are big enough, however, Android doesn't offer a "widget surface push service" since widgets are generally updated by tasks running on the phone itself.
    12-27-2013 04:26 PM
  4. Anglerdk's Avatar
    The year that WP catches up with iOS and Android. The year when reviews stop pointing out whats missing with the OS or the devices?

    I mean 8.1 update expected pretty soon with much anticipated features, apps like IG finally here and many coming all the time and official FB app finally making progress (the updates need to keep coming). Not to mention new devices with quadcore processors, hd screens etc...

    I know the other two are moving forward too, but I havent seen anything really inspiring lately. New things that came with iPhone 5s and GS4 like fingerprint reader or sensors that (try to) follow your eye movement are gimiggy or technology that does not function properly yet.

    WP is really the only platform that offers something different and fresh. Im not thinking 2014 is the year WP will outsell either of the two, but the year when the complaining could stop (I have complained too and will keep doing so until Im satisfied).



    no, i dont think WP will catch up , because:
    1) Android units with kitkat and cheaper (high performance) CPUs will make the gap between lowend android and wp8 smaller

    2) the variation of wp8 models are very small , and beside Nokia the support from phone makers are small

    3) since point two, the lack of apps especially in foreign languages is becoming more clear to many.

    4) in countries with higher income wp8 isn't a real alternative to iPhone and high end android , the hardware platform is outdated beside the cameras.


    5) there is no or few killer features on wp8 (the l1020 camera perhaps, but the phone is slow and runs empty on storage in no time) - basically there is nothing wp8 can do that ios/android cannot..? So no, the reviews will still point out the missings, since they shouldn't be there.

    6) wp8 is not reaching out as be more connected like aircast, miracast, mhl , chromecast etc

    7) WP is missing out of features that they should master, like office , calendar/exchange

    Much of the innovation is in software and especially android (I don't know much of ios) dual app on same screen, chromecast , quick launcher etc is might not a big thing, but if you switch away you find out they're missing



    Sent from my RM-892_eu_sweden_243 using Tapatalk
    jlzimmerman likes this.
    12-27-2013 05:29 PM
  5. tgp's Avatar
    Despite what many folks will say about tiles and notifications, tiles are NOT a replacement for or an equivalent of notifications. Tiles are most akin to Android's widgets crossed with iOS home screen of app icons. The fact that tiles don't make for a great centralized notification center isn't a flaw any more than the fact that my food processor not making for a great automobile isn't a flaw -- they're different things solving different problems.
    I believe I worded it wrong. What I meant was that there's a flaw in Microsoft's philosophy to use Live Tiles rather than a central notification. Even if the Live Tiles worked perfectly, they wouldn't do the job as well. All notifications should appear at the same place. And I also believe the Live Tiles are actually meant to be a replacement for a central notification system.
    12-27-2013 06:08 PM
  6. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Live tiles are not a replacement for a notification centre at all, it is silly to think it will be. Simply because not everyone has their hands glued to their phones 24/7. If you miss a notification, you wont even know unless you hunted for it and even worse if its not pinned to your home screen it is gone. Also what on earth possessed them (MS) to think clear the notification counter if you opened the app was a smart idea? I.e if you receive 6 emails and open 3 therefore 3 unread the tile should indicate 3 unread not clear it off completely.

    Microsoft needs to stop trying to be a parent deciding what we users need or don't need. For example, the stop button why was that removed? The functionality is there since there all these stopmusic apps in the store, such a basic thing but its a nuisance to have an app pinned to do a simple task. More over users had to use a work around - opening a video to remove the now playing control, which was just absurd. Also I have found the battery drain is actually higher with the music paused as opposed to stopped. We need the ability to troubleshoot bluetooth problems via adjustable settings, profiles etc there have been times when I have not been able to connect via bluetooth to my friends' car audio systems with no way to troubleshoot (which was pretty embarrassing to say the least imagine a car full of isheep - so now I carry an aux cable in my backpack and my coat pockets). We need more than just colours for tiles, If they enabled us to have custom backgrounds for our tiles, ability to change the colour of the logos and text for system apps - this would make windows phone more personal. Only then their vision / motto "We didn't design windows phone for all us, but each of us", would ring true. Speaking of tiles, may be give us an option (off by default) to turn off auto alignment? I have so many ideas in mind but it is a pain playing around with black empty tile shortcuts created with skinnery themes as they try to open but close automatically since they are not set to anything.

    Bing Search needs to be improved drastically for us international users, the bing panaroma feature is amazing with the recommendation, reviews for movies, movie times etc which you only get if you change your browser / search region to US. Also sort by distance, show opening times is disabled in local scout unless you change your browser / search region to US...
    Office mobile needs alot of work, I shouldn't have to resort to work arounds it should just work i.e. using full stops as bullet points. Can only attach documents in the office hub, videos only from the photos hub and only pictures from the an email hub. Once a document is attached via the office hub, it defaults to the pictures hub with no way to change it or navigate back. So you have to upload all documents or videos to sky drive and share that way, it works but a annoyance none the less or send them one by one....

    However there are areas MS nailed it, customisable lock screen, kids corner (however camera roll is still accessible and really needs a setting to set a separate password), amazingly fluid UI etc. They have a strong foundation now but there is a lot of work still left to be done before WP can surpass android or ios.

    Sorry for the long rant, brain is on over drive at the moment.. had too many energy drinks.
    Loco5150 and James8561 like this.
    12-27-2013 09:33 PM
  7. Greywolf1967's Avatar
    To be honest about this, and trust me I am a windows everything guy, a few changes have to happen before Microsoft makes any headway in the market.
    The fight between MS and Google has to finish before any Android user jumps over. How much of a black eye does MS have after they release a YouTube app only to have Google block it the same day.
    It is why you do not see any Google app development on WP8. The other shot fired toward MS was Google adding an improved Google search to iPhone. So now both Droid and iPhone users are talking to their handsets saying "Ok Google"

    I do think if Microsoft fails to push their Tablet and Phone systems closer together they will be dead in the water.

    i OS 7 on iPhone/iPad, and Android being the same basically for Phone and Tablet , gives developers far less work to do before they see sales pile up. In the MS ecosystem, you have to develop for Phone send to store, now start again for RT and submit, then if you want to make for x86 it's a third run through. I really do not think a developer is against getting sales any place they can, but if your work load is twice that of the other 2 os, then yes you will develop last for WP.

    If MS does link WP8.1 and RT closer so the same Office that runs on RT runs on the phone, not only would the average person take note, but the adoption rate in corporate settings would jump !!!!
    Companies struggle now with Android Tablet and iPhone use, more so then with Blackberry.

    The chance is there, MS just has to grab it.

    EDIT

    Just one other thought, and it is a simple thing, but to the average buyer could close a deal....Why for the love of god is it that you build in a maps app into your Modern UI, but then you do not let the user pair a phone with a built in GPS to the tablet???

    The simple things are what grabs people attention.
    Last edited by Greywolf1967; 12-28-2013 at 09:15 AM.
    James8561 likes this.
    12-28-2013 09:04 AM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    The fight between MS and Google has to finish before any Android user jumps over. How much of a black eye does MS have after they release a YouTube app only to have Google block it the same day.
    It is why you do not see any Google app development on WP8. The other shot fired toward MS was Google adding an improved Google search to iPhone. So now both Droid and iPhone users are talking to their handsets saying "Ok Google"
    I think this is no small part of WP's current problem. I've stated before though that I don't think Google is holding back apps for WP just because it's Microsoft. What's the logic behind saying Google is scared of WP, but yet they fall all over themselves developing for iOS? That said, Google's reasoning could be to purposely limit WP's growth, but I lean more towards the market share issue. But, none of us know for sure. It's all surmising for us.

    Microsoft could play a little nicer too. I'm not sure who's instigating and who's retaliating here, but obviously there's no love lost between the 2. Microsoft has been all over with their Scroogled campaign, including selling Scroogled merchandise in their store. While true to a certain extent, I doubt the difference between the 2 companies is as big as Microsoft makes it out to be. And the latest Chromebook ad? I wonder if Microsoft isn't crapping their pants over how the Chromebook is taking off. PC sales are down and Chromebook sales are rising pretty fast.

    And then there's Rockstar...

    Whatever is taking place, it sure is interesting to watch!
    Greywolf1967 likes this.
    12-28-2013 09:41 AM
  9. Greywolf1967's Avatar
    I think the whole scroogled and chromebook ads from Microsoft are just garbage that is not helping !!!! In fact I would say it is only hurting one area.....the consumer.

    I wonder if Google sent a search app to the MS Store, would it pass through or would MS block it right away? As MS is so highly invested in Bing.

    I truly wonder how many WP8 users who have the Bing button on their phone, still fire up ie and search through Google.com
    12-29-2013 03:14 AM
  10. kalo88's Avatar
    Does anyone realize that quad core phones are really dumb? Most of the time, only 2 cores are being used.
    How many cores does facebook and twitter really need anyway. If you really evaluate your day to day phone use it's VERY basic un-demanding tasks like a quick browse, facebook, twitter, the odd youtube video etc. People are told to believe that a bigger number is better, 4 cores is obviously better than 2, 2gb ram is better than 1... but when you're not really using any of those specs then it's not =/. iOS and WP have shown you don't need to have the latest and greatest hardware but for the WP platform to continue it needs them just to attract people who are obsessed with specs.
    Rem97 likes this.
    12-29-2013 10:00 AM
  11. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    How many cores does facebook and twitter really need anyway. If you really evaluate your day to day phone use it's VERY basic un-demanding tasks like a quick browse, facebook, twitter, the odd youtube video etc. People are told to believe that a bigger number is better, 4 cores is obviously better than 2, 2gb ram is better than 1... but when you're not really using any of those specs then it's not =/. iOS and WP have shown you don't need to have the latest and greatest hardware but for the WP platform to continue it needs them just to attract people who are obsessed with specs.
    If you insist on using them, though, there will come a time when the optimization of the sites and apps cone to mind. A lot of sites (and their official) are crappily optimized for WP. Then, they end up blaming either WP or the hardware...

    It's much easier to throw hardware at a problem than effort, after all.
    12-29-2013 10:58 AM
  12. UncleGrandpa's Avatar
    I can remember when people thought you'd never need a hard drive larger than 10MB. You read that right.

    Never ever think that advanced hardware is a wasted purchase or something nobody can use.

    I've been around before personal computers and cell phones existed. I know that what may seem pie in the sky stuff...soon becomes a must have and yesterday's old news very quickly.

    The Samsung 2k screens and 8 core CPUs are going to be very desirable regardless of whether you "need " it or not.

    Now go outside and play..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    12-29-2013 11:23 AM
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