04-11-2014 08:52 AM
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  1. genuine555's Avatar
    Earlier this week, it was Steve Wozniak saying Apple should release an iPhone on Android and now this guy from the Guardian says Microsoft should do

    Analysis: Satya Nadella must kill Windows Phone and fork Android | Technology | theguardian.com

    What's with Android? I don't see why people love it so much. I have used it (I'm not a fanboy for anything, I try them all) but Android just doesn't do it for me (which is what led me to try WP8). Quite frankly, Windows Phone has better potential and is more original. Plus I don't have a Google Account anymore (I don't like Google because of the way they've been more of a bully since 2012).

    Anyhow, what do you think of that guy's analysis?
    Well, because you don't like it doesn't mean no-one does.

    Stop thinking that everyone should be like you.
    Your opinion about it is as biased as mine or anybodies...


    I actually like Android very much. More than WP tbh. Packed with every possible feature, and lately they are lightning fast...But WP does have great "potential" as you say and is truly innovative compared to the old menu-styled androids. I still have WP because I am fairly patient with MS, and I do see that potential.

    But MS will HAVE TO step it up, and BIGTIME, if they want this WP thing to actually go somewhere and get on the same level, "feature-wise", as iOS and Android.
    Untill now there have been WAY too much dissappointments for WP users. And in a sense it is still very far from being a "complete" platform, because too many features are still missing or lacking on WP.
    Dazzi likes this.
    02-10-2014 05:11 AM
  2. dlalonde's Avatar
    Well, because you don't like it doesn't mean no-one does.

    Stop thinking that everyone should be like you.
    Your opinion about it is as biased as mine or anybodies...


    I actually like Android very much. More than WP tbh. Packed with every possible feature, and lately they are lightning fast...But WP does have great "potential" as you say and is truly innovative compared to the old menu-styled androids. I still have WP because I am fairly patient with MS, and I do see that potential.

    But MS will HAVE TO step it up, and BIGTIME, if they want this WP thing to actually go somewhere and get on the same level, "feature-wise", as iOS and Android.
    Untill now there have been WAY too much dissappointments for WP users. And in a sense it is still very far from being a "complete" platform, because too many features are still missing or lacking on WP.
    Well first I never said no one likes Android or even that no one should not like Android. I said that I didn't see why people liked it so much (in the context that one of the co-founders of Apple said it should replace iOS and that a journalist says it should replace Windows Phone). And given that I'm expressing a personal opinion, of course it is biased but only because of a personal preference and not because I'm blindly defending an OS over another without aknowleding the forces and weaknesses of each.

    Lastly I certainly don't think everyone should be like me. I don't really see how you could have gotten this (or any other intention you're giving to my original post for that matter) from my post. Oh and the fact that I end by asking what everyone thought clearly shows that I was interested in knowing... what others thought.

    am forced to use google by my job :(
    That is a shame. I make it a point not to use Google for all the reasons we know about (the Big Brotherness, the bullying of Windows and Windows Phone users, the arrogance, etc.).
    snowmutt likes this.
    02-10-2014 06:28 AM
  3. Localhorst86's Avatar
    While I myself am not a big fan of android as it currently is, I think a lot of people in this thread actually misunderstand what forking android could mean.

    Most people in this discussion seem to assume that it would mean MS would take android, replace every iteration of the word "Google" with "Microsoft" and be done with it. This is not the case. Microsoft could still use their own frontend (the WP UI we currently have and most of us really love) and services. No need to ditch live tiles and take the (as most people already mentioned: flawed) Widget approach. They would not have to provide google services and they could even block unwanted (i.e. third party) software. MS could provide their own store/marketplace that only allows certain apps, they could lock the OS to only accept these trusted apps (no sideloading apks etc.). This whole thing can go way further than what we currently see in OEMs being able to provide their own add-ons, widgets and skins.

    Forking basically means: Take the current google codebase and adapt it however you (in this case MS) wants. Compare this to the Amazon Kindle Fire devices which do not come with google services installed, but amazon services. Now Imagine this a lot more costumized in terms of UI, services and functionality compared to kindle fire.

    The basic upside to this would be that the new "Windroid Phone" OS could essentially be compatible with all existing android apps (more or less, depending on how much MS will costumize their OS, of course) so developers would have it far more easy to "port" their android apps to Windroid Phone (maybe slight incompatibilities in frameworks and provided services by the OS, but the vast majority of code could be re-used) so no more having to wait ages for official apps after they hit android.

    Other than that I don't see any upsides, just downsides. The whole development of WP in it's current state would be dismissed. Current apps would be pretty much impossible to be executable on a Windroid Phone, so these apps and games would have to be ported over by their developers. This would also mean that MS would (again!) screw existing WP customers over, but this time even more because our current apps would not work on our new Windroid devices.

    This would also leave us with a dual- (and if Wozniak would have his way mono-) culture of mobile operating systems. The biggest issue this would cause is security issues. Attacks and security flaws could potentially be in all the iterations of Android, Appledroid and Windroid since they would to a certain extent share some basic codebase. Of course it doesn't necessarily mean that every security flaw will affect all forks, as each forker could potentially adapt a different security model and not all devices will share the same services.

    I do not think MS could afford kicking their current WP customers again and rely on the android codebase that google provides so forking android would most likely not be a wise choice for MS.

    EDIT:

    And since Android is - to an extent - OSS, MS would be forced to open their (forked) source code as well. While this is not neccessarily bad from a consumer standpoint, I doubt it would be in the interest of Microsoft and its shareholders.

    PS:
    I did not read the original article in the guardian so I do not know to what extent that article is contradicting or supporting my points.
    02-10-2014 06:57 AM
  4. crystal_planet's Avatar
    live tile is just another word for a simple widget..

    WP also uses icons
    Sent from my RM-875_eu_euro1_267 using Tapatalk
    In a strict technical sense they may be similar, but the philosophy and implementation behind Live Tiles is light years apart from Android's widgets. WP's apps are predicated around a live tile but the developer doesn't have to utilize that piece, while a widget is a piece which is shoe horned around an app that may or may not have dynamic information in mind. Android's version is an afterthought.
    02-10-2014 07:59 AM
  5. gwinegarden's Avatar
    If I had wanted an Android phone, I would have bought one!

    The Guardian has some of the worst hacks I've ever come across.
    jlzimmerman and snowmutt like this.
    02-10-2014 08:50 AM
  6. dkediger's Avatar
    The whole upshot of the previous ArsTechnica article was that Android essentially can't be forked because Google has already done so. AOSP no longer equals "Android" minus the Google services. To provide a true Android experience, and thus gain access to a compatible app base moving forward, OEMs have to throw in with Google. Trying to roll your own services means risking future app compatibility as Google moves more APIs into their closed services and/or reverse engineering API's - and we all know where Microsoft and Google have been with that.

    Amazon makes it work cause they're only providing a subset of the full Google experience and they already had a deep content store they could drop in place of Google Play. They depend on the goodwill of developers to either program upfront to older APIs/frameworks, or to recode newer Google Play apps to be compatible with Amazon services. There are compatibility issues, that granted, at the present time, get resolved, but there's no guarantee Google won't go all YouTube/Microsoft with Amazon.
    02-10-2014 09:50 AM
  7. iBandar's Avatar
    LMAO NEVER going to happen.
    snowmutt likes this.
    02-10-2014 09:57 AM
  8. b0blight's Avatar
    I just don't get it. Last year, there were still people that supported WP8, saying like it has potential to succeed. Recently, I noticed more and more people coming out to bash windows, be it WP8 or Win 8... (Mind you, I'm not a fanboy of any OS. I use an Android tablet at home and a L920 as my phone)
    02-10-2014 10:07 AM
  9. dkediger's Avatar
    All of that said - it would be interesting to see what Microsoft and Amazon could do together in collaborative effort on replacing Google services....
    02-10-2014 10:19 AM
  10. chezm's Avatar
    Being a previous WP owner and eagerly waiting WP9, i do not agree with this 'professional' article. WP should stay away from Anroid.
    snowmutt likes this.
    02-10-2014 10:41 AM
  11. genuine555's Avatar
    Well first I never said no one likes Android or even that no one should not like Android. I said that I didn't see why people liked it so much (in the context that one of the co-founders of Apple said it should replace iOS and that a journalist says it should replace Windows Phone). And given that I'm expressing a personal opinion, of course it is biased but only because of a personal preference and not because I'm blindly defending an OS over another without aknowleding the forces and weaknesses of each.

    Lastly I certainly don't think everyone should be like me. I don't really see how you could have gotten this (or any other intention you're giving to my original post for that matter) from my post. Oh and the fact that I end by asking what everyone thought clearly shows that I was interested in knowing... what others thought.

    You asked what others thought, no ? I gave you my thought, just like you asked, so really no need to feel attacked or something
    I just noticed you stated that Windows Phone IS more original and HAS better potential...so tht in a sense states that in your eyes it is a given fact, while it is actually just an opinion. I'm a detail freak, so if you said "I think WP is better and I think it has better potential"...then I would have interpreted it as such.

    You also stated first that you don't get why others like Android, but now saying that you never expect anyone to have your opinion (?)
    That is kind of a contradiction really...no ? If you understood that opinions differ and others most likely don't agree in full with your opinion, then you wouldn't have said "I don't get why..."

    I just wanted to point that out is all.

    But don't feel like I'm trying to invalidate your opinion, because that is not the intention. Your opinion is as valid as mine. You just need to choose the words a little better so that detail freaks like me don't misinterpret them


    But anyway, that guys "analysis" is as biased as any personal opinion...IF not even more
    Last edited by genuine555; 02-10-2014 at 02:33 PM.
    snowmutt likes this.
    02-10-2014 02:14 PM
  12. dlalonde's Avatar
    You asked what others thought, no ? I gave you my thought, just like you asked, so really no need to feel attacked or something
    I just noticed you stated that Windows Phone IS more original and HAS better potential...so tht in a sense states that in your eyes it is a given fact, while it is actually just an opinion. I'm a detail freak, so if you said "I think WP is better and I think it has better potential"...then I would have interpreted it as such.

    You also stated first that you don't get why others like Android, but now saying that you never expect anyone to have your opinion (?)
    That is kind of a contradiction really...no ? If you understood that opinions differ and others most likely don't agree in full with your opinion, then you wouldn't have said "I don't get why..."

    I just wanted to point that out is all.

    But don't feel like I'm trying to invalidate your opinion, because that is not the intention. Your opinion is as valid as mine. You just need to choose the words a little better so that detail freaks like me don't misinterpret them


    But anyway, that guys "analysis" is as biased as any personal opinion...IF not even more
    Oh I didn't feel attacked, I was actually being nice

    I say that I don't get why others like Android because I don't like it. I expect nothing really. I'm sure people have reasons to like it, some will think like me. To each their own really. But to me it doesn't do it.

    Is that precise enough?
    02-10-2014 02:49 PM
  13. genuine555's Avatar
    Oh I didn't feel attacked, I was actually being nice

    I say that I don't get why others like Android because I don't like it. I expect nothing really. I'm sure people have reasons to like it, some will think like me. To each their own really. But to me it doesn't do it.

    Is that precise enough?
    02-10-2014 03:36 PM
  14. AV2RY's Avatar
    IF MS kills WP what will happen to Nokia ?
    02-10-2014 03:50 PM
  15. Angry_Mushroom's Avatar
    Okay... I think I can try this.

    Satya Nadella must kill Xbox One, and build Playstations. Because... ummm... Sony sells more consoles, and MS totally joined the race late back in 2001. I mean... you could say that Magnavox fired the first shot in the 70s...

    Hmmm... maybe you don't have to be to the party early to have the most fun. I'll say the same about the smartphone wars. Blackberry was once the giant... now it might not survive until the 2016 elections.
    02-10-2014 05:08 PM
  16. BaritoneGuy's Avatar
    If they do this then I am gone from MS. All of it. I will move to Apple completely. A forked version of Android will face the same struggle as WP.
    02-10-2014 06:02 PM
  17. genuine555's Avatar
    Okay... I think I can try this.

    Satya Nadella must kill Xbox One, and build Playstations. Because... ummm... Sony sells more consoles, and MS totally joined the race late back in 2001. I mean... you could say that Magnavox fired the first shot in the 70s...

    Hmmm... maybe you don't have to be to the party early to have the most fun. I'll say the same about the smartphone wars. Blackberry was once the giant... now it might not survive until the 2016 elections.
    Everything is in constant flux. Everything changes. Android won't stay market-leader. It is inevitable. Maybe in 10y iOS will lie in the past, or Android, and BB may have the finest devices with the upmost innovations...who knows ? Who knows in 10y what a "cell-phone" will be then ? Might be a chip in your head by then...who knows, maybe they will all be "Intel" phones by then, multi-cored inside our head, all virtual and stuff

    Only thing we can be sure of, is that the way things are now, including market-positions, they won't stay that way
    snowmutt likes this.
    02-10-2014 06:03 PM
  18. 5150 Joker's Avatar
    Honestly I think Microsoft would have been better off using Android from the start by employing some Google services like their search + maps and creating their own app store that runs alongside Google's similarly to what Samsung has done. They could have customized the OS to be almost like WP but probably even more flexible. Microsoft is a software company first and having their services prominently featured in Lumia Android phones would have been the perfect way to market their products. Trying to take down iOS and Android this late in the game is pretty futile IMO and they are just wasting money.

    I love my 1520 and think WP8 is great but after 3 years, we're barely seeing 4% market share in the US with apps that don't look or function as well as their iOS/Android counterparts + with less support. With Nokia now poised to introduce their new Normandy phones with Android, I hope Satya and others in charge of MS realize that their best interest is to work with Google rather than against them.

    Bottomline: Use AOSP + GMS and layer MS customizations on top of that + their own app store that runs alongside it. Push MS features and products on such devices and get the best of both worlds. MS already enjoys royalty fees from Android patents so this move would actually let MS start earning money rather than being in the red with WP.
    Last edited by 5150 Joker; 02-10-2014 at 06:36 PM.
    02-10-2014 06:10 PM
  19. genuine555's Avatar
    Honestly I think Microsoft would have been better off forking Android from the start, using some Google services like their search + maps and creating their own app store like Samsung has done. They could have customized the OS to be almost like WP but probably even more flexible. Microsoft is a software company first and having their services prominently featured in Lumia Android phones would have been the perfect way to market their products. Trying to take down iOS and Android this late in the game is pretty futile IMO and they are just wasting money.

    I love my 1520 and think WP8 is great but after 3 years, we're barely seeing 4% market share in the US with apps that don't look or function as well as their iOS/Android counterparts + with less support. With Nokia now poised to introduce their new Normandy phones with Android, I hope Satya and others in charge of MS realize that their best interest is to work with Google rather than against them.
    Very simply : I Concur. Hands down...no nonsense.


    MS working with Google...hmmm I don't really like googles ethics, but who can say...A nice innovative blend of WP UI and Androidy features into a platform that could be the best of both worlds...
    02-10-2014 06:17 PM
  20. Dave Blake's Avatar
    live tile is just another word for a simple widget..

    WP also uses icons







    Sent from my RM-875_eu_euro1_267 using Tapatalk
    No its not... have you ever used a Windows Phone?

    That does it after reading this article I am going to toss my L1520 in the trash and go get an android. What's a good one...?
    02-10-2014 07:29 PM
  21. Jazmac's Avatar
    Bottom line, android users only recognize free and cracked apps and OS's. And to them, that is normal. Talk about security from the standpoint of the company Apple/Microsoft and they are insulted that it exists.
    snowmutt likes this.
    02-10-2014 10:27 PM
  22. Jas00555's Avatar
    Bottom line, android users only recognize free and cracked apps and OS's. And to them, that is normal. Talk about security from the standpoint of the company Apple/Microsoft and they are insulted that it exists.
    Heaven forbid someone make you pay for something that they made, and how dare they make is so it can't be easily hacked, am I right?
    02-10-2014 10:48 PM
  23. Jazmac's Avatar
    Heaven forbid someone make you pay for something that they made, and how dare they make is so it can't be easily hacked, am I right?
    I'm not sure. Are you directing this at me or my point?
    02-10-2014 10:59 PM
  24. Jas00555's Avatar
    I'm not sure. Are you directing this at me or my point?
    I was agreeing with you, but simultaneously using sarcasm to make fun of what I call "scumbag android users"
    Jazmac likes this.
    02-10-2014 11:27 PM
  25. Editguy1900's Avatar
    It would be doing a 180 from the direction MS has set for itself, to have a unified experience. It won't happen. And mentioning a forked version of android, what advantage would there be to that?
    02-11-2014 12:46 AM
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