04-11-2014 07:52 AM
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  1. Markham Ranja's Avatar
    Bottom line, android users only recognize free and cracked apps and OS's. And to them, that is normal. Talk about security from the standpoint of the company Apple/Microsoft and they are insulted that it exists.
    Thank you for that ridiculous sweeping generalisation. It is of the utmost incredulity that you could make such a statement. Of the 80% of smartphone users who have Android devices, how many, do you think, have the knowledge and ability to crack apps and root their phones and so on.
    m3kk and RustyU like this.
    02-11-2014 12:02 AM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Even Boy Genius Report thinks the Guardian article is dumb.
    02-11-2014 12:03 AM
  3. m3kk's Avatar
    It would be doing a 180 from the direction MS has set for itself, to have a unified experience. It won't happen. And mentioning a forked version of android, what advantage would there be to that?
    Well, in its current state: notifications done right, FILEBROWSER, modular system : change everything, download anything from web, I could go on but basically a more windowsy experience. Android is to phones what windows was to computers. Its fun all the arguments go the other way now: "hurdur malware and virus uglly, I don't need all features or apps" which windows-users constantly always had to defend themselves from. But now when it's the other way around suddenly what made windows so usable is completely forgotten and you embrace the locked model you hated Apple for all years .

    When I say "You" I mean people in general that I've witness bull****ting back and forth all year erryyear


    Edit: I don't mean locked down as in not open-source , I mean free to use the products they way it fits you and not the makers way
    02-11-2014 01:09 AM
  4. Mike Marvel's Avatar
    I think going BlackBerry way and implement an abstraction layer to run Android apps will be more profitable.

    Edit: I mean "more profitable" than killing WP and forking Android.
    MS has already spent so much resources on WP to kill it; and forking Android will not be significantly cheaper than building a VM over WP.

    As for the merits of having a Android VM per se, there are many unknown variables to argue for it. Should the VM be implemented as a separate app or integrated in the O/S? How good will the performance of the VM be? How will it impact the native ecosystem?
    Last edited by Mike Marvel; 02-11-2014 at 03:13 AM.
    02-11-2014 01:38 AM
  5. 5150 Joker's Avatar
    I think going BlackBerry way and implement an abstraction layer to run Android apps will be more profitable.



    No, that would be incredibly stupid.





    Sent from my Yellow Nokia 1520 (RM-937)
    02-11-2014 01:43 AM
  6. Mike Marvel's Avatar
    No, that would be incredibly stupid.
    I think you misunderstand me. I mean "more profitable" than killing WP and forking Android.
    If you still think that's incredibly stupid, I am curious to know why you think killing WP and forking Android is a better idea than having a Android VM on WP.
    02-11-2014 02:21 AM
  7. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I just sort of skimmed the thread. I read this article yesterday and avoided putting the link to the article because I didn't think it deserved the click bait.

    For anyone who is interested, Charles Arthur is the resident iFan of The Guardian and I mean big time. They unfortunately think he's an IT writer and has unbiased opinions. They've sent him to several Nokia and MS events and he always comes back and bashes both. I forget which event it was but he actually asked a completely irrelevant question at one of the Nokia events. In the mean time Apple can do no wrong. Though that is a bit of a Guardian thing anyway.

    Saying that, there is little doubt that MS has to pull out the guns and fire away with WP8.1. Let's hope they do so. :)
    02-11-2014 02:33 AM
  8. smoledman's Avatar
    No matter how much I love Windows Phone OS, Google services simply rock. Search, Email, Maps are best in the world. Google Now is an incredible service that no one else has. I'm still waiting for Microsoft to make Outlook.com into a real Gmail competitor(eliminate folders and rename Categories to Tags and make the UI a 100000% better). Bing Maps need like a 134324234% better POI database and more 3D. So until that happens, I just can't see myself switching back to Windows Phone from my Nexus 5.
    02-11-2014 02:44 AM
  9. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    I think going BlackBerry way and implement an abstraction layer to run Android apps will be more profitable.
    That would practically kill Windows Phone 8 (and Windows 8) development. Seeing as a lot of devs out there see Google as a god, and Microsoft as the dirty monopolist of the '90s.
    dlalonde, neo158 and a5cent like this.
    02-11-2014 02:57 AM
  10. may693's Avatar
    Earlier this week, it was Steve Wozniak saying Apple should release an iPhone on Android and now this guy from the Guardian says Microsoft should do

    Analysis: Satya Nadella must kill Windows Phone and fork Android | Technology | theguardian.com

    What's with Android? I don't see why people love it so much. I have used it (I'm not a fanboy for anything, I try them all) but Android just doesn't do it for me (which is what led me to try WP8). Quite frankly, Windows Phone has better potential and is more original. Plus I don't have a Google Account anymore (I don't like Google because of the way they've been more of a bully since 2012).

    Anyhow, what do you think of that guy's analysis?
    i am 101% agree ! I don't know what the hell people see in android and running behind it like its the only thing available.. Hell huh!
    dlalonde and neo158 like this.
    02-11-2014 03:04 AM
  11. Ian Too's Avatar
    Well, I still have my copy of Outlook, so I could go back to Windows Mobile...

    Seriously, anyone who knows about Microsoft's three screen strategy knows Windows Phone is here to stay. It's a keystone and with WP taking off with the success of the 520 and its adoption by the enterprise market, now is the time to push it harder than ever.

    There is a need in the market for a third OS because both iOS and Android have problems which make them unsuitable.

    With the release of the 5c, Apple were critised for not producing a low-end handset and their response was that they have no interest in that sector of the market. Thus did they abandon the VAST majority of smart phone users to Google and its partners.

    Apple have always been an arrogant and charmless company, hypocritical and hypersensitive. These are the only devices you can hold the wrong way, smash in normal use, have to encase in an accessory battery pack in order to go a full day and still be called great design. With Apple there is no choice of screen size and rather than accommodate 3rd party services they tie you more and more tightly into their own; you comply or fall beneath consideration.

    Android has critical problems which rule it out for any unbiased rational person. The plethora of handsets are a disaster; OEMs are cramming the OS into hardware which simply isn't powerful enough to run it. The consequence is users who are disappointed and confused by their device's inability to run Whatsapp and Viber because they get a low memory warning - I speak from personal experience here, folks. I am the guy people come to and I have seen so many Samsungs and HTCs where I have to explain why their device won't do what they want, because they don't have enough memory or because they have a Buick body with a Toyota engine. Yes, Android runs acceptably at the high end, but elsewhere it is storing up trouble for the future in terms of users who are ready to walk.

    Android fanboys also have to realise that Android is just a cheap rip-off of iOS 3. Google have done nothing innovative with the OS, just bolted stuff on until the result is a gludge and a mess which will only run well on high-end devices. On top of that, companies like Samsung add so much bloatware that there is no consistency and the user has no choice but to buy extra memory to make the device usable.

    Android's biggest problem however is one which cannot be removed: Google.

    Although a big fan of Google when it first appeared, this company has become increasingly invasive of it's users' personal privacy and not for their users' benefit either. Google uses your Android device to track your position and keep tabs on what you search for. They use software to scan your personal and business email for keywords. When you use Google services, they are gathering information on you, your friends and clients. Whats more, Android is worming its tentacles into all sorts of devices, including fridges and washing machines, all apparently 'free' to OEMs.

    You cannot make your goal influencing peoples' decisions and have proper respect for their right of self determination - these two things are diametrically opposed. Google earns its money by selling advertising and gain traction over their competitors by having unprecedented reach and in unprecedented detail. This allows them to target advertising with unprecedented power. Basically, Samsung, HTC, Sony and the rest are colluding with Google to sell your personal information to interested parties. They all have a vested interest in invading your privacy, which is why when you go into your local phone shop they will push the latest Android device into your hands. Android's popularity has more to do with OEM's and Google's self interest than merit. With Google you are just part of the background, your information is like oil to be sucked out of the ground. Google have no agreement with you and get no money from you. You just consume their services without paying for them. Why should Google care about you?

    I'll go back to a dumb phone before I get an Android device.

    Against this tide comes aunty Microsoft, late to the party as usual, and the people who brought us Millenium and Vista. Hardly a record which inspires confidence. And aren't they a private company which needs to make a profit just like Google? Why should we trust them any more?

    Well, oh happy day, someone at Microsoft got their act together and realised that an OS needs to be small and economical. First with Zune, then Windows Phone and now with Windows itself, the operating system drains less from the hardware it runs than it used to - evidenced by the fact that Windows 8.1 will run on hardware designed for Windows XP - ten year old computers. With Staya Nadella at the helm, there is no reason to expect this trend not to continue, not because he's Indian, but because he's an ENGINEER!

    As for the trust issue, although they do sell advertising through Bing, their main business is by selling goods and services to us, their customers. We have an agreement with this company so they have a vested interest in safeguarding our information, because if it leaked they'd lose their customers and their income.

    There is a lot to be said for the older business model where the user is a customer rather than a consumer and a lot of reason to favour Microsoft over Google, because despite their penchant for making mistakes, the relationship with Microsoft is a healthier one for its users.
    a5cent and WanderingTraveler like this.
    02-11-2014 03:36 AM
  12. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    No matter how much I love Windows Phone OS, Google services simply rock. Search, Email, Maps are best in the world. Google Now is an incredible service that no one else has. I'm still waiting for Microsoft to make Outlook.com into a real Gmail competitor(eliminate folders and rename Categories to Tags and make the UI a 100000% better). Bing Maps need like a 134324234% better POI database and more 3D. So until that happens, I just can't see myself switching back to Windows Phone from my Nexus 5.
    Search really depends on region. It's actually better in the US and parts of Europe. (Largely because of Bing not in beta there, and Smart Search in Win8.1)
    Outlook.com not fitting your needs? That's because Outlook 2013 is more fully featured. I expect Microsoft to finally port more functionality to Outlook.com, since it has a better interface than the former. Oh, and both e-mail services are actually quite good, it just ranks to a matter of preference (I prefer the more modern look in Outlook.com, for instance, which results me in using it.)

    Elsewhere? SkyDrive is roughly on par with Google Drive.
    Office Web Apps is already much better than Google Docs, and Microsoft is going to improve it even more(?!)
    Bing Maps is basically HERE with different POI database. Even if they merge, they won't compare to Google Maps.
    Google Now? While I won't use that service, even if they try to shove it down my throat, I agree that it has practically no competitor.
    YouTube has practically no competitor as well, on the part of Microsoft.
    ...the list of comparisons go on.

    Unless you are an avid fan of YouTube, Google Now, and Google Maps, Microsoft's online offerings can match up to Google's though they need more integration and polishing. (That and they actually play well with Internet Explorer!)
    a5cent likes this.
    02-11-2014 04:42 AM
  13. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Oh, and just a quick honorable mention:

    I'm willing to bet that Google will start pushing Chrome apps to both iOS and Android.
    I'm also willing to bet that they'll deprecate "native" Android development for this very purpose.

    Thus ends hopes of those who want to fork Android.
    02-11-2014 04:45 AM
  14. dlalonde's Avatar
    even if they try to shove it down my throat
    That's another reason why I prefer Microsoft. They're not shoving anything down our throat like Google has done it so many times in the last two years starting with their unique privacy policy, removing support for Windows apps, removing Google Reader even though it was very popular (showing that they don't care about their customers), forcing Google+ onto YouTube and Gmail, the latest ad system in Gmail, etc.

    Microsoft has arrived late yes. But Bing Maps does nothing that Google Maps doesn't for most people (so you can't look at your house from street view... big deal), Outlook is now on par if not better than Gmail (because there are no targeted ads, no ads in the mail list), Outlook calendar on par, Office Web Apps better, Skydrive on par, etc. Bing still has some work to do though but I'm sure they can get there.
    WanderingTraveler and neo158 like this.
    02-11-2014 05:21 AM
  15. neo158's Avatar
    That would practically kill Windows Phone 8 (and Windows 8) development. Seeing as a lot of devs out there see Google as a god, and Microsoft as the dirty monopolist of the '90s.
    That's exactly it, just look at how many native apps are coming to BB10!!

    Most developers are just creating an Android version and then saying "OK, well this runs on BB10 as well so we don't need a separate app".
    a5cent and WanderingTraveler like this.
    02-11-2014 05:29 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    Android is to phones what windows was to computers. Its fun all the arguments go the other way now: "hurdur malware and virus uglly, I don't need all features or apps" which windows-users constantly always had to defend themselves from. But now when it's the other way around suddenly what made windows so usable is completely forgotten and you embrace the locked model you hated Apple for all years.
    I see where you are coming from, and as a person who makes such arguments (which you find illogical), I will try and explain:

    First, I use my smartphone and my Windows PC very differently. I'm willing to spend time maintaining my PC, but unwilling to do so for my smartphone. What is good or acceptable for one computing platform is not automatically good for the other. I don't own a single Apple product, but requiring my smartphone to just work is why I would get an iPhone before I'd get an Android device. It is not inconsistent or illogical to have different requirements for different computing devices. So, in a nutshell, on a smartphone I want all the features I can get, but not at the expense of reliability or security. That is where I would draw the line of what makes sense for a smartphone.

    Second, I still despise Apple's "locked model", but there is a difference between being "locked in" and being "locked down". Being "locked down" is what I previously mentioned. It equates to emphasizing security and reliability over flexibility. Depending on the users needs, this can be good or bad. Both iOS and WP are "locked down". However, only Apple has such a strong focus on consumer "lock in". I don't want my media and IT services tied to any particular company's hardware.

    I hope I explained how people can have those views without being hypocritical.
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-11-2014 at 09:30 AM. Reason: slight clarifications
    02-11-2014 06:03 AM
  17. anony_mouse's Avatar
    If they kill wp. They wasted a lot of money...
    I won't comment on anything else in this thread, but just to say that is *not* a good argument to continue with WP. That's a classic business mistake. The money already spent on WP has gone, for better or worse. Microsoft need to decide whether it's worth continuing with WP based on its *future* prospects, and whether investing in it further is the best way to offer future value to shareholders.
    a5cent likes this.
    02-11-2014 07:11 AM
  18. ipinsao's Avatar
    Written by another fanboy.
    Smart phones should present you all the information you need and that's what life tiles do.
    Android and IOS are the same you have to keep pressing icons.

    I do have to say though that the lack of orientation lock in Windows phones is just dumb.
    02-11-2014 11:03 AM
  19. unstoppablekem's Avatar
    I do have to say though that the lack of orientation lock in Windows phones is just dumb.
    It's there. Do you have GDR3?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-11-2014 11:11 AM
  20. anony_mouse's Avatar
    Written by another fanboy.
    Smart phones should present you all the information you need and that's what life tiles do.
    Android and IOS are the same you have to keep pressing icons.
    Have you heard of Android's 'widgets'? It's notification bar is pretty good as well - some might argue that it's better than live tiles.

    I do have to say though that the lack of orientation lock in Windows phones is just dumb.
    On that point, I agree with you. I appreciate that there are sometimes major problems adding even minor features to a system, which are not obvious to an outsider. In this case, it's really hard to imagine what those could be. Of course, it could also be a business, not technical, reason - can anyone think of a strategic advantage Microsoft might get from not allowing people to use their phones in the 'wrong' orientation? (I can't)
    02-11-2014 11:15 AM
  21. Lance_WPCentral's Avatar
    Today after seeing the huge list of fabulous updates in the link below coming up for Windows Phone with Windows 8.1, I would say Google CEO must kill Android and fork Windows Phone. :D

    Developers leak new features included in Windows Phone 8.1 SDK | Windows Phone Central
    02-11-2014 11:18 AM
  22. SomethingSomethingDarkSide's Avatar
    Today after seeing the huge list of fabulous updates in the link below coming up for Windows Phone with Windows 8.1, I would say Google CEO must kill Android and fork Windows Phone. :D

    Developers leak new features included in Windows Phone 8.1 SDK | Windows Phone Central
    It also serves as a bitter reminder that Microsoft, despite the pressure and urgency it should have been feeling, is VERY late with features on its mobile OS. For Christ's sake, VPN, auto app updates, notification centers, separate volume control are being touted as new features! That's frankly nearly unforgiveable for a company playing catch up as it is.

    As for services, you don't have to be an "avid fan" of Goolgle Maps or Youtube to know Google services, as sketchy as they are, blow Microsoft out of the water. Bing is more or less equivalent these days, but the Maps are not even a comparison, at least in the US, for business information, addresses, phone #, etc. Google Now, as mentioned, has no equivalent at all. Android is laggy and utterly fragmented, which are major detriments in a mobile OS, but the truth is they have a mature, complete OS while Microsoft, in 2014, still does not. Ultimately, killing WP for a forked Android is about the dumbest thing anyone can do, but it would behoove Microsoft to find a way to play nice with Google, even if they are behaving like crotchety jerks.
    02-11-2014 11:33 AM
  23. hs k's Avatar
    Google is evil! Bing it on.

    That is a goddamn pun. Wish I could hug you through the internet. **** that. *HUGS*
    02-11-2014 11:39 AM
  24. hs k's Avatar
    No its not... have you ever used a Windows Phone?

    That does it after reading this article I am going to toss my L1520 in the trash and go get an android. What's a good one...?
    Why throw a good phone away? Send that beauty to me! Ready to pay the shipping charges, assuming you'll unlock it if it is on contract.

    LOL. ;)
    snowmutt likes this.
    02-11-2014 11:57 AM
  25. dkediger's Avatar
    .... I'm still waiting for Microsoft to make Outlook.com into a real Gmail competitor(eliminate folders and rename Categories to Tags and make the UI a 100000% better).
    Umm, Sorry, but no. What you describe is a GMail clone, not competitor. GMail's web UI needs to be taken out back and euthanized.
    02-11-2014 05:11 PM
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