05-20-2014 09:12 AM
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  1. Chris Sandiford's Avatar
    I recently made some comments in the 8.1 Poll story on the main page and in doing so did some research to back up my point.

    The results were quite startling.

    The US may be a big country but it ranks 13 out of 15 in the world for smartphone ownership. No 1 is the UAE (Source: The 15 Countries With the Highest Smartphone Pentration)

    European smartphone ownership Feb 14: 176 million handsets (UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, France - the top 5 European smartphone nations) - source: www.comscoredatamine
    Population = 257 million ie. 68% of Europe owns a smartphone

    US smartphone ownership Nov 13: 148 million handsets - source: Analytics for a Digital World - comScore, Inc.
    Population = 313 million ie. 47% of the US own a smartphone

    Now apply the WP8 market share (source: http://uk.kantar.com/tech/mobile/kan...-market-share/)

    9.2% of 176 million = 16 million WP8 handsets in Europe

    5.4% of 148 million = 8 million WP8 handsets in the US

    Hell, there are 44 million smartphone handsets in the UK alone (source: www.portioresearch.com) in a population of 63 million.
    And with 10.1% WP8 share this means there are still 4.4 million WP8 handsets in the UK vs the 8 million in the US - a country five times its population.

    Just because the US is the home of MS shouldn't give them a precedent in their Cortanas and launches and Binginess. If the majority of US is too dumb to adopt, MS should go where the customer base is - maybe move next door to Nokia in Espoo.

    I took the data from the sources quoted who classed "Europe" as those top 5 European countries based on smartphone purchases. I wasn't really looking at the language aspect ie. Cortana launch, moreover pointing out the woeful takeup of WP in its home country. Clearly as things stand, Cortana couldn't be launched into Europe first without a focus shift.

    Rolls Royces are still hand made in Britain yet we can't afford them... a massive percentage of their market share is in Asia and the Middle East. Rolls therefore launch new models there, listen to the desires and suggestions of their dealerships there, host massive media circuses there and generally give credence to a whole export market where the sales will be. They even made a special edition model just for Dubai, based on customer requests - this from a Channel 4 documentary on the company last month.

    Cortana aside (based on language differences) you can't really argue the facts. The US is slow to adopt and MS should invest where the real money and interest is.
    04-10-2014 06:09 AM
  2. anon(5335899)'s Avatar
    You are missing the point and basically interpret the number the wrong way around. You need to look at to whom you can possibly sell a smartphone, not who has one. Those number come up more or less the same for US and EU.
    04-10-2014 06:17 AM
  3. FlawlessSayan's Avatar
    No way MS should NOT localise. IT CAN AND SHOULD BE GLOBAL.
    piff2222 and ByeVanno like this.
    04-10-2014 06:17 AM
  4. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    But don't most of their sales for all their products come mostly from the us first and foremost...

    It makes sense that the us company puts most of their focus in their home nation but they really should expand to at least other countries.
    04-10-2014 06:18 AM
  5. kingenu's Avatar
    MS only care about us and "up coming markets". i just take what i can get tbf
    04-10-2014 06:30 AM
  6. Ezhik's Avatar
    They should at the very least stop making US-exclusive features. It's annoying.
    piff2222 and gwinegarden like this.
    04-10-2014 06:31 AM
  7. Chris Sandiford's Avatar
    No way MS should NOT localise. IT CAN AND SHOULD BE GLOBAL.
    So globalizing is introducing US only features to the minority US first that the rest of the world cannot use?
    piff2222 and gwinegarden like this.
    04-10-2014 06:37 AM
  8. Chris Sandiford's Avatar
    You are missing the point and basically interpret the number the wrong way around. You need to look at to whom you can possibly sell a smartphone, not who has one. Those number come up more or less the same for US and EU.
    And where is this data you've invented? I'm not missing any point. Italy has grown massively in its WP users the last few years for example - the facts are there.
    You can't deny a 100% greater usage in Europe than in the US.
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-10-2014 06:38 AM
  9. broken-eyes's Avatar
    Yeah can say it sucks "we" have to pay more for the devices and get half the services,😔
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-10-2014 06:43 AM
  10. Sport Driver's Avatar
    Should they forget US: NO, it is to important market
    Should they put more effort in EU: YES
    I live in small country Slovenia and I'm not expecting Cortana in Slovene language BUT, if i want to buy a Microsoft Surface I can't. It is not available in our country and I'm not talking about Microsoft store, you simply can' buy it anywhere. I would have to buy it in Austria or Germany but there we have problem with warrenty. So puting more effort in EU would help.

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 820 using Tapatalk
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-10-2014 07:10 AM
  11. marratj's Avatar
    I would have to buy it in Austria or Germany but there we have problem with warrenty.
    But Slovenia is part of the EU and therefor the warranty needs to be accepted EU wide. So if you buy it in Austria and it has a defect, you can always send it to the seller in Austria and he/she needs to give you the warranty.
    04-10-2014 08:13 AM
  12. Chris Sandiford's Avatar
    Should they forget US: NO, it is to important market
    Should they put more effort in EU: YES
    I live in small country Slovenia and I'm not expecting Cortana in Slovene language BUT, if i want to buy a Microsoft Surface I can't. It is not available in our country and I'm not talking about Microsoft store, you simply can' buy it anywhere. I would have to buy it in Austria or Germany but there we have problem with warrenty. So puting more effort in EU would help.

    Sent from my Nokia Lumia 820 using Tapatalk
    That's what I'm saying - don't forget the US, just flip everything on its head.
    Give the interested parties the goodies first.
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-10-2014 08:37 AM
  13. prasath1234's Avatar
    Ms should somehow make Apple users switch to their ecosystems then suddenly all developers nd rest of the world follow.so they should concentrate on us first where there is each nd every person buying flagship on contract so that it gets all the money.

    Sent from my C2305 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
    04-10-2014 08:45 AM
  14. Soulstream's Avatar
    Not being from the US I don't really get why the US market is like "we must have success here or we are doomed" (or that is the feeling I am getting). I live in Romania (Europe) and I am starting to see a little more WP handsets while riding the subway to work, but most are cheaper models. I think if WP sells best in EU, then they should focus more on it. Focus on EU doesn't mean abandon US.
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-10-2014 10:29 AM
  15. Sport Driver's Avatar
    But Slovenia is part of the EU and therefor the warranty needs to be accepted EU wide. So if you buy it in Austria and it has a defect, you can always send it to the seller in Austria and he/she needs to give you the warranty.
    Sure I could but why would I have to send it to Austria if I could simply bring the device to service ;) . They would accept it but I would take more time, fear something happens with tablet on post,etc.
    Well MS is being more US-centric, much like Apple but Google is more international if you ask me. But that is just me :D .
    piff2222 likes this.
    04-10-2014 11:59 AM
  16. Beijendorf's Avatar
    This has been bothering me for too long. Both Microsoft and Nokia under Elops targets the US primarily, and treated the EU like some second-hand backwater market. It's the reason I never bought a Lumia 1020 (released 3-4 months after the US got it). And now there's a half-year delay from the time the US got the 930/Icon until the EU gets it.

    It's just not worth being treated like a non-valuable customer when other corporations hurry to put their handsets on the European market at the same time the US gets it, knowing the EU has a massive purchasing power.

    And I'm Swedish, so I'm not exactly living in a tiny nation of very poor people. Yet Microsoft/Elops-Nokia treats us like a third world nation that can't afford high-end gear. If you don't value your customers Microsoft/Nokia, you won't have any customers left to value soon. If they pull crap like a 3-6 month delay just for the sake of US exclusivity one more time, I'll just pretend like their products don't even exist.
    theefman and piff2222 like this.
    05-18-2014 08:38 AM
  17. Citizen X's Avatar
    This has been bothering me for too long. Both Microsoft and Nokia under Elops targets the US primarily, and treated the EU like some second-hand backwater market.
    Then European should integrate and speak only one language, only have one legal system, only have one regulator similiar to the FCC, and have only 3 or 4 pan European cell phone companies with only really two big ones like at&t and Verizon. Europe is not a country. It is a continent. I am reminded of this every time I visit Europe and have to change cell phone operators three or four times during the course of a four hour drive. I love hopping from country to country in Europe in the amount of time it takes me to drive between two cities in the middle of nowhere America... but it comes at a cost.
    05-18-2014 09:54 AM
  18. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    Microsoft has a European division so there is focus there. A lot of phones get released in other markets as well as the US including some that the US don't see like the 1320. I like the body design of that more than the 1520. MS being a US owned company and Apple being its biggest rival, also a US owned company the emphasis needs to be on the US. It doesn't mean its not in other places. In many markets, WP has surpassed iPhone sales, so I think MS is doing a good job of calculating how to manage their products.
    05-18-2014 10:07 AM
  19. theefman's Avatar
    Then European should integrate and speak only one language, only have one legal system, only have one regulator similiar to the FCC, and have only 3 or 4 pan European cell phone companies with only really two big ones like at&t and Verizon. Europe is not a country. It is a continent. I am reminded of this every time I visit Europe and have to change cell phone operators three or four times during the course of a four hour drive. I love hopping from country to country in Europe in the amount of time it takes me to drive between two cities in the middle of nowhere America... but it comes at a cost.


    Funny that apple, Samsung, htc and others don't seem to have a problem with launching handsets in Europe without ridiculous delays, just Microsoft and Nokia.
    a5cent and Beijendorf like this.
    05-18-2014 10:07 AM
  20. Beijendorf's Avatar
    Then European should integrate and speak only one language, only have one legal system, only have one regulator similiar to the FCC, and have only 3 or 4 pan European cell phone companies with only really two big ones like at&t and Verizon. Europe is not a country. It is a continent.
    Europe is a continent. The EU isn't.

    And are you seriously under the impression that Microsoft and Nokia only have one office working with all their markets? They have offices in every single market they operate in. They're fully capable of coordinating their releases. In the EU we also have a supranational legal system and supranational regulations which makes all of this a lot simpler.

    The mere fact that we have a lot of carriers in the EU means there's harsh competition, with carriers jumping on any advantage they can get, unlike in the US where the carriers dictate the rules and force companies like Nokia to make exclusivity deals and manufacture devices only to their small section of the market.

    I mean for heavens sake, the mere fact that companies like HTC, Samsung, Oppo and so forth manage to release their devices in the EU and the US at the same time with top-of-the-line specifications disproves every single one of your points.

    The EU isn't the problem. Microsoft/Nokia's US-centric market approach is.
    gerzhwin likes this.
    05-18-2014 10:09 AM
  21. Jaskys's Avatar
    It would prefer it being a global company, rather than MicrUSoft
    Beijendorf likes this.
    05-18-2014 10:15 AM
  22. colinkiama's Avatar
    I wonder if Microsoft actually check their statistics.. Anyone can clearly see Europe is where the money is for Windows Phone.
    Beijendorf likes this.
    05-18-2014 10:21 AM
  23. Citizen X's Avatar
    Funny that apple, Samsung, htc and others don't seem to have a problem with launching handsets in Europe without ridiculous delays, just Microsoft and Nokia.
    I don't know about HTC, I wouldn't consider them a model to follow in the cell phone business, but Samsung is the largest cell phone company in the world and Apple is the largest company in the world. The shear amount of resources and competitive advantages Samsung and Apple enjoy when it comes to cell phones out classes everyone. People think of Apple as a computer company. It's not. Most of what they sell is iphones and ipads. And for most of their history they were launching a grand total of ONE phone every 1-2 years. Nokia is launching how many different handsets? Samsung launches a lot of handsets but again the resources dwarf Nokia.

    Europe is a continent. The EU isn't.
    The fact you posted this as your opening argument tells me you are wrong.

    And are you seriously under the impression that Microsoft and Nokia only have one office working with all their markets?
    This is the second piece of evidence that tells me you have no argument. I mean a strawman should at least be kind of plausible for it to have any effect.

    I mean for heavens sake, the mere fact that companies like HTC...
    I would prefer if Microsoft does not follow HTC trajectory. I like their OS and and I want them to be around for awhile.

    For everyone quoting the HTC model...

    HTC shareholders absorbed some pain today as the stock dropped almost 4% on the Taiwan Stock Exchange. The drop followed the companys release of its Q4 results for 2013 along with a discussion of expected Q1 and 2014 results.

    The main reason for the stocks decline today is probably the Q1 outlook. Revenue guidance is between NT$34 billion and NT$36 billion whereas analysts expected, on average, NT$39.3 billion according to a survey by Bloomberg. The company is also expected to post a wider loss than analysts had been anticipating.

    I dont think theres any argument that HTC makes very nice phones. But gross margins are really low. For Q1 theyre forecasting just over 21% gross margin, and its tough to make a profit on that after subtracting their R&D, selling, general and administrative costs.
    Analyzing HTC's latest financial result | Android Central

    I can't tell you guys what exactly the issue is but given the volume of handsets Nokia sells it wouldn't surprise me that there would be a disparity between their distribution and that of the likes of Apple and Samsung. I'm not an expert. I'm just trying to offer a possible explanation. Does anyone have an alternative explanation other than "they just don't like me"?
    05-18-2014 11:26 AM
  24. Beijendorf's Avatar
    I don't know about HTC, I wouldn't consider them a model to follow in the cell phone business [...]. Samsung launches a lot of handsets but again the resources dwarf Nokia.
    I would prefer if Microsoft does not follow HTC trajectory. I like their OS and and I want them to be around for awhile.
    Regardless of what you think of HTC, they're a struggling phone manufacturer who still manage global distribution of their handsets. And just like Nokia, they have a long list of devices released every year. You complain about argumentative fallacies and you construct red herrings in order to make it seem like it's the size of Samsung and Apple that make their business model possible. Yet here we are with HTC, Jolla, etc, distributing their devices to the whole world rather than giving one nation preferential treatment.

    The fact you posted this as your opening argument tells me you are wrong.
    The fact that I know the difference between Europe and the EU makes the rest of my arguments wrong? That's called argumentum ad hominem, your second fallacy. The EU have stardardised market rules to make trade simpler and faster. EU =/= Europe.

    This is the second piece of evidence that tells me you have no argument. I mean a strawman should at least be kind of plausible for it to have any effect.
    Your argument was that because the EU isn't one nation it takes a lot of time to work with each country. Yet they have an office in every single country who work parallel to the US office. They can easily just submit any paperwork in each nation simultaneously. The other manufacturers do this, and that's why they are also able to release their devices in every target nation at the same date.

    It's been fun seeing you go into brain-melt mode by saying I'm wrong because I know the difference between Europe and the European Union and then say I can't compare Nokia to HTC because HTC publishes bad quarterly earnings ... Just like Nokia does.

    Edit: I should also point out to you that rhetorical questions are not the same thing as strawman arguments.
    Last edited by Beijendorf; 05-18-2014 at 12:25 PM.
    05-18-2014 11:58 AM
  25. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    WP has seen in increase of market share value that currently have it at 4% globally. Of course that is laughable stacked up against Apple and Android if you're looking and thinking about right now. Last year WP wasn't at 2%. The year before that not even at 1%. Every year WPs popularity in increasing, its the fastest growing ecosystem. Next year they may be at 6%, which in the competitive mobile market that's a good sign. There are always more that MS can do like any corporation, but they're not the fastest growing ecosystem for a reason. Their popularity in Europe is as good as Apple now. They know what they're doing.
    05-18-2014 11:01 PM
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