IE 11 (WP 8.1) vs. Google Chrome.(Android)

[anony_mouse]

In regard to IE vs Chrome, it's subjective and always will be. Use what you like and be happy.

But if you have Windows Phone, you can't. You have to use IE. Isn't that incredibly stupid?

 

[m3kk]

I hate the new browser update, can't get full screen on any video I try to stream in websites. Only YouTube videos, rest lacks a button. Feels like browsing with my 360 all over again

 

[stkhalo07]

But if you have Windows Phone, you can't. You have to use IE. Isn't that incredibly stupid?

Not necessarily.

The assumption I think a lot of people make is that WP8 should act like Android, part of which I think comes from the fact, like Android, there's multiple OEMs creating different WP8 devices/products.The problem with that, though, is WP is not Android, nor is it intended to be - it's "locked down" like iOS. That being said, however, it has the benefit of multiple OEMs - like Android - to become a middle ground OS.

For example, any browser is allowed on WP that a developer wants to create. However, they are required to use the core rendering engine IE uses, just like iOS - because, again, this is not Android (on the software front).

You can argue the merits of open or closed operating systems all day long, but there's no universal right/wrong. If you feel you should be able to use Chrome, feel free to use Android - like pretty much everything in life there's trade-offs/benefits to everything (which in your case, this would be a benefit of Android). Even if WP opened rendering engines for web browsers, let's be real - Google still wouldn't develop the app.

You should try Android on a Moto G. Super smooth and much faster than WP. Also, I think fragmentation (ie being used in creative and varied ways) shows just how successful android has been.

I have used, and currently own, Nexus devices (and several non-Nexus/GPe phones running stock ROMs).

While they tend to be a lot faster than skinned OSs, I disagree they're quicker than WP.

Fragmentation doesn't show how successful Android is - activated/sold devices does. Fragmentation, if anything, shows a failure on Android's part to unify their OS and their vendors. The fact that the majority are now on 4.0 + just shows the problem here - 1) there's a large chunk still on pre-ICS/JB, and 2) that even if they're on JB the majority is still 4.1.x variants - showing extreme fragmentation.

You guys have to realize one of the big benefits to a locked down OS is that WP has been able to almost (some carriers/devices excluded) universally keep WP8 + devices on the same updates, albeit with varying degrees of delivery dates. That's a huge deal in of itself. People tend to use Apple's universal updating of iPhones as the example, but you have to remember: WP has almost been able to do the same, update-after-update, with a slew of devices, from different manufacturers, with different specs - that's a big deal.

Two of the biggest appeals to the Nexus devices are 1) updates, and 2) the stock ROM. WP has been able to ensure updates for the vast majority of devices/users, while every single phone has the "stock" OS. This means that when you go in and use a 520 it's quick, nimble, and responsive - just like its big brother flagships - all because it's the "stock" WP experience every device has.

 

[A895]

Not necessarily.

The assumption I think a lot of people make is that WP8 should act like Android, part of which I think comes from the fact, like Android, there's multiple OEMs creating different WP8 devices/products.The problem with that, though, is WP is not Android, nor is it intended to be - it's "locked down" like iOS. That being said, however, it has the benefit of multiple OEMs - like Android - to become a middle ground OS.

For example, any browser is allowed on WP that a developer wants to create. However, they are required to use the core rendering engine IE uses, just like iOS - because, again, this is not Android (on the software front).

You can argue the merits of open or closed operating systems all day long, but there's no universal right/wrong. If you feel you should be able to use Chrome, feel free to use Android - like pretty much everything in life there's trade-offs/benefits to everything (which in your case, this would be a benefit of Android). Even if WP opened rendering engines for web browsers, let's be real - Google still wouldn't develop the app.



I have used, and currently own, Nexus devices (and several non-Nexus/GPe phones running stock ROMs).

While they tend to be a lot faster than skinned OSs, I disagree they're quicker than WP.

Fragmentation doesn't show how successful Android is - activated/sold devices does. Fragmentation, if anything, shows a failure on Android's part to unify their OS and their vendors. The fact that the majority are now on 4.0 + just shows the problem here - 1) there's a large chunk still on pre-ICS/JB, and 2) that even if they're on JB the majority is still 4.1.x variants - showing extreme fragmentation.

You guys have to realize one of the big benefits to a locked down OS is that WP has been able to almost (some carriers/devices excluded) universally keep WP8 + devices on the same updates, albeit with varying degrees of delivery dates. That's a huge deal in of itself. People tend to use Apple's universal updating of iPhones as the example, but you have to remember: WP has almost been able to do the same, update-after-update, with a slew of devices, from different manufacturers, with different specs - that's a big deal.

Two of the biggest appeals to the Nexus devices are 1) updates, and 2) the stock ROM. WP has been able to ensure updates for the vast majority of devices/users, while every single phone has the "stock" OS. This means that when you go in and use a 520 it's quick, nimble, and responsive - just like its big brother flagships - all because it's the "stock" WP experience every device has.

I so hate the fragmentation argument because how do you think 100s millions of Android devices where a good portion are mid to low range hardware will be able to stay on an update track? And then spread these devices across almost every single country on the planet (even North Korea is making and Android phone) and trying to keep devices updated would cost so much money and time that manufacturers wouldn't be able to make new devices.

And to add on the fact that majority of devices running android are running 4.0+ is a good thing considering how many devices run Android. The fact that KitKat itself and OS ~6 months old has $4 of Android OS market share shows how Android has changed because it damn sure wouldn't have reached that level 2+ years ago in the same amount of time.

Also Nexus devices are not the holy grail for Android. They have average/bad cameras and average battery life. If anything GPE devices are some of the best because they have new hardware (HTC M8 GPE) and the latest OS.

WP is able to do it because they have ~4% market share. Not a good comparison comparing it to 50% marketshare.

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[stkhalo07]

I so hate the fragmentation argument because how do you think 100s millions of Android devices where a good portion are mid to low range hardware will be able to stay on an update track? And then spread these devices across almost every single country on the planet (even North Korea is making and Android phone) and trying to keep devices updated would cost so much money and time that manufacturers wouldn't be able to make new devices.

And to add on the fact that majority of devices running android are running 4.0+ is a good thing considering how many devices run Android. The fact that KitKat itself and OS ~6 months old has $4 of Android OS market share shows how Android has changed because it damn sure wouldn't have reached that level 2+ years ago in the same amount of time.

Also Nexus devices are not the holy grail for Android. They have average/bad cameras and average battery life. If anything GPE devices are some of the best because they have new hardware (HTC M8 GPE) and the latest OS.

WP is able to do it because they have ~4% market share. Not a good comparison comparing it to 50% marketshare.

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I said before that there are pros and cons to every mobile OS/strategy, and the fragmentation issue is a huge one for Android.

Regarding your question how I expect so many to stay current, the reality is that there's not hundreds of millions of different models, so the install base argument is fairly moot.

But regardless, there's definitely a ton of Android models out there, from a wide range of manufacturers. And you mention feasibility, which I think is a fair point - how can we expect all these OEMs to stay current? And the reality is we probably more than likely couldn't, but that's not because of inherent feasibility due to install base/Android, but rather one of the "benefits" of Android being its double-edge sword. The reason keeping these devices up-to-date becomes so difficult is that the vast majority of OEMs use proprietary software skins. Not only do they take up additional space - as well as, more often than not, decreasing system responsiveness - they require updating in addition to the core OS. It's not upgrading the core OS that's the problem here - the GPe and Nexus devices' quick updates indicate how relatively simple core OS updates are directly from Google - it's the skin updates that seals the fate of so many of these handsets - and that's a huge problem.

I disagree entirely with the 4.0+ being a good indication of progress. ICS was released in October, 2011. The fact that there's so many phones running an OS from 2.5 years ago is a little troubling to say the least. Even 4.1.x, which if I'm not mistaken is still where the biggest core of the Android install base is, was from 2012 - that's all pretty terrible.

The 4.3/4.4 numbers, albeit low, have been boosted by the 'best' of circumstances - i.e. a brand new Nexus device, the introduction of the GPe line, and Motorolla's non-GPe devices essentially being stock Android with a few additions.

And I'm not saying Nexus devices are the best of the best, but it's very commonly that the Android community will tell you that the real Android experience can only be found there (or the GPe devices).

But again, the marketshare argument is moot - WP would more than likely easily able to do the same updating of scale at 50% that they get currently. As I mentioned in both posts, these updates are core OS updates and don't require feasibility studies regarding custom skins; MS hands them the update and they can easily push it to their devices - just the same way the GPe devices quickly update. When all you're focusing on is the core OS, and the company is handing you the update it simplifies things greatly.

 

[A895]

I said before that there are pros and cons to every mobile OS/strategy, and the fragmentation issue is a huge one for Android.

Regarding your question how I expect so many to stay current, the reality is that there's not hundreds of millions of different models, so the install base argument is fairly moot.

But regardless, there's definitely a ton of Android models out there, from a wide range of manufacturers. And you mention feasibility, which I think is a fair point - how can we expect all these OEMs to stay current? And the reality is we probably more than likely couldn't, but that's not because of inherent feasibility due to install base/Android, but rather one of the "benefits" of Android being its double-edge sword. The reason keeping these devices up-to-date becomes so difficult is that the vast majority of OEMs use proprietary software skins. Not only do they take up additional space - as well as, more often than not, decreasing system responsiveness - they require updating in addition to the core OS. It's not upgrading the core OS that's the problem here - the GPe and Nexus devices' quick updates indicate how relatively simple core OS updates are directly from Google - it's the skin updates that seals the fate of so many of these handsets - and that's a huge problem.

I disagree entirely with the 4.0+ being a good indication of progress. ICS was released in October, 2011. The fact that there's so many phones running an OS from 2.5 years ago is a little troubling to say the least. Even 4.1.x, which if I'm not mistaken is still where the biggest core of the Android install base is, was from 2012 - that's all pretty terrible.

The 4.3/4.4 numbers, albeit low, have been boosted by the 'best' of circumstances - i.e. a brand new Nexus device, the introduction of the GPe line, and Motorolla's non-GPe devices essentially being stock Android with a few additions.

And I'm not saying Nexus devices are the best of the best, but it's very commonly that the Android community will tell you that the real Android experience can only be found there (or the GPe devices).

But again, the marketshare argument is moot - WP would more than likely easily able to do the same updating of scale at 50% that they get currently. As I mentioned in both posts, these updates are core OS updates and don't require feasibility studies regarding custom skins; MS hands them the update and they can easily push it to their devices - just the same way the GPe devices quickly update. When all you're focusing on is the core OS, and the company is handing you the update it simplifies things greatly.

Either way it does not matter because in the end, the consumer does not care about updates. They care about what their phone is capable of doing now. I highly doubt the speed of updates on WP would still be the same if their market share was ever like Androids. Others is still carriers to deal with. They can't push updates straight to the phone like iOS.

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[anony_mouse]

Coming back on topic - please can someone explain WHY Microsoft do not allow other browsers on WP. No one has yet posted a single reason.

 

[Dratwister]

Coming back on topic - please can someone explain WHY Microsoft do not allow other browsers on WP. No one has yet posted a single reason.

I believe because of security reasons And surely Microsoft's working on it in order to "open" it while keeping it secure enough (kinda like Chrome on iOS... but heck, that PoS is really unusable), isn't Chrome arriving to WP?
IMO, I don't know why I should download any other 3rd party browsers rather than IE11 (except for that nonsense hatred toward IE from web developers all over the internet, that cannot even try to obey W3C rules and like to stick with moz- or webkit-)

P.S: Though your question isn't this topic either

Either way it does not matter because in the end, the consumer does not care about updates. They care about what their phone is capable of doing now. I highly doubt the speed of updates on WP would still be the same if their market share was ever like Androids. Others is still carriers to deal with. They can't push updates straight to the phone like iOS.

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Not everyone though Not every countries give carriers such power like US (the reason why is still a mystery to me). In my country, people just buy a phones at full price, then sign a data mobile contract with carriers then done. We're free to use any phone we like, change phone whenever we love and still keep current contract.
Hence, we don't need to wait for "approve" from carrier but just for entire country

 

[Bram Vanroy]

Coming back on topic - please can someone explain WHY Microsoft do not allow other browsers on WP. No one has yet posted a single reason.

Probably a number of reasons, but you should've read the articles I posted on the previous page.

- The main reason might be to increase IE's market share on mobile.
- Personally, I think the reason above is possible, but no the one of the biggest concerns to MS. Just look at the browser war on Windows 8 RT (i.e. W8 on lower-end tablets). MS didn't allow third-party browser for some reasons:

1. security: a web browser is probably the main tunnel where viruses come through. IE has its SmartScreen filter, but MS doesn't "trust" 3rd party browsers. They might not have the best security, or foolproof malware defence.
2. browsing experience: MS knows the OS from the inside out, and subsequently knows how to tweak the browser and integrate it completely into the OS. MS could allow devs to integrate others' browser in the UI, though
3. additional requirements: I know that for W8RT there was a hazzle about the ARM structure and other browsers not being able to utilise all of its resources, but I can't really remember.

As I said in my previous post, it seems like it's going both ways:
Google and others do not try hard enough (I am yet to see a press release of Google being angry at MS for not allowing Chrome). Google refused to bring any of its services to WP. Luckily, as the links in my previous post illustrate, Google is now investigating the possibility of porting Chrome to WP8. Google has made a concession, now we'll have to wait for MS's reply.

 

[anony_mouse]

Quick reply:
- to increase IE's market share. I don't see why any customer would care about that. Isn't it more important to make customers happy?
- security. I doubt the browser is the main conduit for viruses on mobile, but if anyone has evidence to the contrary we can look at it. Actually, diversity in browsers might well improve security. It means that a bug in one browser will compromise fewer people, as not everyone will be using the affected browser. It also gives users another option until the bug is fixed. Competition may also spur on innovation.

Btw, chrome on iOS is not a good reference. I understand it uses Apple's rendering engine, not Google's, as similar restrictions are in place. Again, I'm happy to be corrected if this is wrong.

 

[Bram Vanroy]

The consumer does not care in a sense, no - but every software builder wants that his software is used. Therefore, MS wants to oblige the user to use their browser. If the user accepts the browser and is content with it, he may even start using IE on desktops again - hence enlarging IE's share on desktop as well.

What I meant with security is that when there is a bug, or a security leak MS can fix it as quickly as possible without depending on anyone. If it's a third party company, however, MS has to wait for that company to bring out a fix. This can take months, or even years - and because of this users may think that it's WP's fault that they are prone to viruses and hackers, whereas it is actually the browser's fault.

It has a lot to do with saving their own face in case something goes wrong with the third party app, I guess - even though they are indeed shooting themselves in the foot as well.

 

[anony_mouse]

If Microsoft are so concerned about third party apps bringing security holes, they should ban them altogether. They still control the App Store, so they can also remove apps with security problems (probably even from your phone).
I can understand that Microsoft want to increase the use of IE, but again I don't understand why any *user* of WP would defend this.

 

[A895]

I believe because of security reasons And surely Microsoft's working on it in order to "open" it while keeping it secure enough (kinda like Chrome on iOS... but heck, that PoS is really unusable), isn't Chrome arriving to WP?
IMO, I don't know why I should download any other 3rd party browsers rather than IE11 (except for that nonsense hatred toward IE from web developers all over the internet, that cannot even try to obey W3C rules and like to stick with moz- or webkit-)

P.S: Though your question isn't this topic either



Not everyone though Not every countries give carriers such power like US (the reason why is still a mystery to me). In my country, people just buy a phones at full price, then sign a data mobile contract with carriers then done. We're free to use any phone we like, change phone whenever we love and still keep current contract.
Hence, we don't need to wait for "approve" from carrier but just for entire country

:thumbup:

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[A895]

Quick reply:
- to increase IE's market share. I don't see why any customer would care about that. Isn't it more important to make customers happy?
- security. I doubt the browser is the main conduit for viruses on mobile, but if anyone has evidence to the contrary we can look at it. Actually, diversity in browsers might well improve security. It means that a bug in one browser will compromise fewer people, as not everyone will be using the affected browser. It also gives users another option until the bug is fixed. Competition may also spur on innovation.

Btw, chrome on iOS is not a good reference. I understand it uses Apple's rendering engine, not Google's, as similar restrictions are in place. Again, I'm happy to be corrected if this is wrong.

You are correct. Apple does not allow other browsers to use desperate engines than Safari. Chrome while using the same engine allows chrome sync and whatnot. Really third party browsers are like a skin for Safari, it might have some added features like tab sync and password saving but that's it.

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[A895]

The consumer does not care in a sense, no - but every software builder wants that his software is used. Therefore, MS wants to oblige the user to use their browser. If the user accepts the browser and is content with it, he may even start using IE on desktops again - hence enlarging IE's share on desktop as well.

What I meant with security is that when there is a bug, or a security leak MS can fix it as quickly as possible without depending on anyone. If it's a third party company, however, MS has to wait for that company to bring out a fix. This can take months, or even years - and because of this users may think that it's WP's fault that they are prone to viruses and hackers, whereas it is actually the browser's fault.

It has a lot to do with saving their own face in case something goes wrong with the third party app, I guess - even though they are indeed shooting themselves in the foot as well.

I'm pretty sure IE 11 is a built in app and therefore can only be updated with OS updates right? Cause, if that's the case that is not a good idea. I doubt using a third party app is that disastrous, it's actually a good idea, I doing someone will make a browser and abandon it for a few months if something is wrong with it.

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[FearL0rd]

IE 11 improves a lot but still not as good as Chrome in Android.

Today I was comparing IE 11 with by brothers Android phone.
I am not going to talk about speed here but the things IE can't do but Chrome can do.

1. IE 11 still can't open sites which open with pop ups.
It's quite annoying that WP IE 11 can only open sites which doesn't have pop's just like old JAVA or S40 phones.
Come on MS, it's 2014 a smartphone era and IE 11 still sames level as old phones now.

2. IE in WP8.1 still crashes like WP 8 when we open heavy sites. I notice IE 11 very often crashes and struggle to open sites like Phonearena.com but Chrome easily open and very fluidly works without any crashes.

If anyone of you have Android phone you can confirm it your self.

I don't know if IE for WP8.1 is still a beta or a stable version but it still needs lots of improvement.
I thought MS is going to fix this in next update but they didn't.
I think these are pretty basic thing that a good browser must do.
What you guys think?

I can open Phonearena.com without any problems here in my 920 with WP8.1. actually I access this site every day without problems

 

[FearL0rd]

[h=1]Android only works with 4CORE or 8CORE CPUS... The emulated crap system uses a lot of resources. Looks like they are fixing it in KK[/h]

 

[anony_mouse]

I'm pretty sure IE 11 is a built in app and therefore can only be updated with OS updates right? Cause, if that's the case that is not a good idea. I doubt using a third party app is that disastrous, it's actually a good idea, I doing someone will make a browser and abandon it for a few months if something is wrong with it.

That's a very good point. Can someone confirm if IE is indeed only updatable via an OS update? That means security problems will take much longer to be fixed. I believe this is also the case on iOS. On Android, Chrome can be and is updated separately and updates are quite frequent. I don't know if this also updates the embedded WebView, which is potentially just as dangerous as a full browser (on all platforms).

 

[anony_mouse]

[h=1]Android only works with 4CORE or 8CORE CPUS... The emulated crap system uses a lot of resources. Looks like they are fixing it in KK[/h]

That's obviously not true.
What do you mean by 'emulated crap system'? Are you referring to the Dalvik virtual machine? As far as I know, this is rather similar to the CLR in WP, which can also be seen as an emulator. Aren't Android and WP actually very similar in this respect?
(I've asked this several times on this forum and have never had an answer).

 

[A895]

[h=1]Android only works with 4CORE or 8CORE CPUS... The emulated crap system uses a lot of resources. Looks like they are fixing it in KK[/h]

Crap system? Enlighten us with some facts, and sources.

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