06-22-2014 06:40 AM
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  1. MikeSo's Avatar
    All the arguing about whether this is final or not is stupid. Until it's officially released we don't know.
    Few of us argue that it's final. Of course it's not FINAL. There is no "final" build of any OS, or software.

    We're arguing whether this is beta, and whether it's a stable release meant for the public.

    Since MS sent this out to reviewers, manufacturers and the public (yes, "developers" that sign up so easily for free are the public), haven't said a peep about it being beta or unfinished (except for Cortana), it's hard to make the case that it is a beta. But we'll find out when the 630/635/930 come out, I guess.
    04-22-2014 12:06 PM
  2. Zapella Tiago's Avatar
    I think its normal, the current Firmware from Nokia its not appropriate for WP8.1 (The OS Update was HUGE), thats why carriers receive the OS before anyone. To make things right on their device.
    04-22-2014 12:09 PM
  3. MikeSo's Avatar
    I think its normal, the current Firmware from Nokia its not appropriate for WP8.1 (The OS Update was HUGE), thats why carriers receive the OS before anyone. To make things right on their device.
    You realize that these Developer Previews direct installs expose the "carriers must test software" idiocy as the sham it is, right?
    There are certainly carrier specific pieces of software and functionality they want to add to releases, and doing it at the same time minimizes the hassles that updates are for the consumers. But the delays are because carriers want to get their own stuff into the updates, not about "making things right".
    04-22-2014 12:12 PM
  4. Xellsama's Avatar
    I think this is a brilliant move. The update has been reviewed in generally positive view on tech blogs, and hardcore fans who will be strongly vocal about changes will get to vent anger before any product is actually publicly available to average consumer on the street. So when real products are out, the criticism would've died down quite a bit, which would be a good PR move by MS.
    Zapella Tiago likes this.
    04-22-2014 12:14 PM
  5. kevinn206's Avatar
    I just want IE 11 to be fixed. This tab reloading is just unacceptable. I tweeted Joe Belifore, but having heard any response yet. I can live with the other changes. And fix the musical chair issue with tab locations. They keep changing position.
    04-22-2014 12:16 PM
  6. MikeSo's Avatar
    I just want IE 11 to be fixed. This tab reloading is just unacceptable. I tweeted Joe Belifore, but having heard any response yet. I can live with the other changes. And fix the musical chair issue with tab locations. They keep changing position.
    The new features in IE11 are great, but the basic rendering definitely has bugs that need to be fixed.
    04-22-2014 12:19 PM
  7. Zapella Tiago's Avatar
    You realize that these Developer Previews direct installs expose the "carriers must test software" idiocy as the sham it is, right?
    There are certainly carrier specific pieces of software and functionality they want to add to releases, and doing it at the same time minimizes the hassles that updates are for the consumers. But the delays are because carriers want to get their own stuff into the updates, not about "making things right".
    No way, certainly carriers optimize firmware.
    04-22-2014 12:26 PM
  8. dorelse's Avatar
    stuff I learned more than 20 years ago


    I've been saying this all along. Welcome to the world of software.


    You've described your software shop, but not all of them, and not ours. I work for one of the largest banks in America which is part of one of the largest banks in the world.
    Hardware & OS development, and how they're tied together is a world apart from writing banking software.

    **Edited & reposted to follow WPCentral guidelines.
    04-22-2014 01:08 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    No way, certainly carriers optimize firmware.
    They most definitely do nothing of the sort.

    You realize that these Developer Previews direct installs expose the "carriers must test software" idiocy as the sham it is, right?
    It is a sham if you think testing is purely technical in nature. It is not. The entire process also ensures that carriers have control over what software is released on their networks, which is the far more important point. Almost none of their testing is focused on catching the type of errors end users would care about.

    Keep in mind that whatever is on the manufacturer's devices, the carrier branded version will still be stamped on them, and the true final release will be what MS sends to the carriers.
    There is a lot of misinformation floating around the web on this issue. MS doesn't actually send carriers anything.

    MS provides the OS to OEMs. OEMs install the OS + OS configuration files + firmware onto their devices. The OS configuration files can be used to inject some branding (startup screens, list of apps to install during initial setup, etc), but this is handled entirely by the OEM on the carrier's behalf. The carriers themselves have no direct access to the OS and they don't touch anything in ROM. OEMs then provide test devices with the updated software package to carriers. If everything works as expected and the carrier finds the software changes acceptable, they will sign off on the update. This gives OEMs the right to "flip a switch", which starts the update distribution process for that one specific software version, for one specific device, on one specific network.

    Anyway, hopmedic is absolutely correct that MS fully intends (intended?) for the developer preview to be the final version. The thing is, intent doesn't always translate into reality. According to a recent article on WPC, MS is considering at least one change. However, WPC also states that we should expect only small and "under the hood" changes. At work I hear the same thing, namely that if WP8.1 requires any large/feature-related changes, MS would prefer to fast-track GDR1 for WP8.1, rather than modify the current version, which would restart the entire testing and validation process and delay the official release.

    What the developer's preview is not is a beta program. That phase ended months ago.

    Note that the above applies only to the OS itself... not backend services (Bing, Cortana, etc) or apps that are delivered separately (Xbox Music etc).
    hopmedic likes this.
    04-22-2014 02:31 PM
  10. dorelse's Avatar
    I don't disagree with an particular point, though the 'ideal' release rarely, if ever occurs, so my comments are based in the reality of delivering new OS & Hdw upgrades. Typically, those minor tweaks are reimaged and sent to OEM's to do their final validation & testing, usually one last round of validation. Yes, we rarely add anything, we're more likely to pull back something...its only ever critical bug fixes and UI tweaks, and possibly some performance tweaks.

    If some feature can't make it, we'll usually provide an enablement patch down the road that fixes and enables any features that we promised, but missed the final cut. Though usually those are before a 'GDR1' type patch...sometimes, we'll just call it a 'feature pack' or 'fixpack'.

    Mostly b/c we want to realize the income during that quarter, and we can't unless those pre-orders have shipped from the factory...sometimes the bean counters impact the release more than us OS guys can...

    Again, when you live and breathe a tightly coupled OS & Server development cycle...this stuff is pretty normal.
    Last edited by dorelse; 04-22-2014 at 03:14 PM.
    04-22-2014 02:52 PM
  11. a5cent's Avatar
    ...though the 'ideal' release rarely, if ever occurs, so my comments are based in the reality of delivering new OS & Hdw upgrades.
    I'm not sure if you're responding to me or someone else, but either way, yes, there is no ideal/perfect release. That is pretty obvious to anyone that works in the software industry. All you can do is decide between shipping the current release now, or delaying in favour of a future release that will also have its own faults and also not be perfect.
    04-22-2014 03:34 PM
  12. chezm's Avatar
    Man, im currently not an WP user but can defend the "its a BETA release" statement. Its a beta that was supposed to be released only to developers yet everyone was handle to get their hands on it. People should really help support bug fixes and find ways to report their findings instead of complaining about 8.1.
    04-22-2014 03:44 PM
  13. MikeSo's Avatar
    Its a beta that was supposed to be released only to developers yet everyone was handle to get their hands on it.
    Anyone ready for another round?
    a5cent, hopmedic and mikeycl like this.
    04-22-2014 03:45 PM
  14. chezm's Avatar
    Anyone ready for another round?
    lol, i have no intent on arguing with anyone...thats my opinion from an outsider who moved to iOS temporarily waiting for WP to fix issues i had with it. my 2 cents, from someone who hasn't used 8.1 and is eagerly waiting for new devices to be released.
    04-22-2014 04:03 PM
  15. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    I am so glad I signed up and downloaded the preview. This is the best keyboard on a phone I've ever used! The notification center is great. Tile backgrounds are an excellent option. Cortana is fun and useful... yes, most of WYSIWYG. What's going to change are bug fixes and added Nokia features... and (I sure hope) some stellar updates to sharing and music apps.

    As official updates and new devices come out, WP will continue to grow. Who knows? Best Buy may even get it's head out of Samsung's ***. The carriers might follow. Even tech blogs have good things to say about 8.1 so far.

    Mistake? Not on your life. This update is the most exciting thing I've yet to see on Windows Phone.
    MikeSo and mikeycl like this.
    04-22-2014 11:52 PM
  16. Zapella Tiago's Avatar
    We can't disagree that the firmware (made by manufacturers) change the behavior of the OS. That's the point.

    Exemplo: A firmware can fix a battery issue (One of the annoying WP8.1 issue).
    neo158 likes this.
    04-23-2014 12:29 PM
  17. tlgem's Avatar
    To answer the OP's question NO! All OS's/cellphone manufacturers should allow this OPTION to avoid the the cell companies upgrade games.
    04-23-2014 12:42 PM
  18. Jaxonizer's Avatar
    WTF? Greatness... Really? This thing is a mess. I HATE what they did to the hubs. And a lot of others do too. Me tile is broken, People-Picture hubs are dead. I am not happy with this update.New features? Sure... but we're breaking others that you've had for 4 years.
    05-31-2014 02:17 AM
  19. Christian Holmstedt's Avatar
    Some people just have no business getting into this type of thing. If people can't figure out simple troubleshooting steps, they shouldn't be anywhere near pre-released operating systems.

    That said, the people who commonly post if forums are there because they have an issue. Your not going to see thread after thread of "no issue here, all good!".
    That said, the people who commonly post if forums are there because they have an issue. Your not going to see thread after thread of "no issue here, all good!".
    So true.
    Time for a new positive thread.
    05-31-2014 05:54 AM
  20. roni09riku's Avatar
    Releasing the preview allowed them to get feedbacks on their product without putting it at risk of losing interest from the consumers. I think it allows them to find out what the consumers say about their current ideas, and also find out what else they want. This is a good strategy to make their product better when the official release comes.
    05-31-2014 06:48 AM
  21. plasmid_uk's Avatar
    I have a couple of points as a user who has not tried the 8.1 developer preview. Your feedback is welcome...

    1) Applications in the Store are receiving bad feedback for not working in 8.1. This is reducing their overall rating and in my opinion isn't acceptable. The point of the developer preview is to allow app developers to prepare their app in time for the official release of 8.1. Unfortunately as the developer preview has been opened up to the masses it seems that it has allowed users to simply complain about apps not functioning correctly from Day 1 of the preview release. Time has passed now and I agree most apps should be near completion but my point is still valid...

    2) Lots of users have pinned issues on the OS instead of the firmware. On a side note I like many others was quite surprised to see so many bugs in the OS especially over different devices. Perhaps Microsoft had to meet a deadline or they were pressurised in to releasing it so quickly by the masses, we'll never know. The preview only contains low-level firmware to get the relevant hardware (Camera, Wi-Fi) working correctly. Without the full firmware we've seen many camera, Wi-Fi and battery drain issues. I think this could have been made more clearer on installation of the preview knowing that the preview would be downloaded by your average and less than average Joe.

    Thoughts?
    05-31-2014 07:53 PM
  22. Jaxonizer's Avatar
    To be precise the developer version does not contain firmware updates with it. Hence the battery and other issues. This will be rectified as the final version comes with the firmware updates. :)
    06-22-2014 06:40 AM
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