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06-09-2014 07:05 PM
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  1. trivor's Avatar
    Indeed yes... you saw this back when the Android market first started... even the really popular social apps got few updates... and all of the variant apps that tried to fill in the gaps. What a mess... especially in the open wide range of the Android market (it still suffers at times from that).... but word of mouth gets about and the quality stuff starts to show up and take over.

    We can only hope that the WP market won't take too long to mature... I think a lot of big businesses still have a lot of unknowns when it comes to social and mobile. They measure stuff by the ROI (return on investment) quarter to quarter. There's no willingness to take a leap of faith... they worry about the "if you build it....and no one shows up" epic fail. Of course, if they never try...then they never fail.

    It's a good thing that nothing stays the same... if your tech is solid it will catch on and move in the direction that people want it to.... how many PC's run MS Windows? Now if MS can finally get that Mobil Story right... yeah, that will be something to see happen... the next major step for them.

    ~ScottGeek.
    How many years (we're currently at 3 years) does it take for the Windows Phone market to be mature?

    Apple's Mac OS has been in the 5% range for a long time (over 5 years) and it's really hard to see what the flash point would be to jump start Windows Phone from 3-4% to the 10% it probably needs to spur companies and developers to add WP 8 to its Android and iOS versions.
    05-30-2014 03:48 PM
  2. Alex Mason86's Avatar
    Even MSFT themselves sometimes ignore windows phone users - OneNote app cannot craft create new while even iPhone users can.
    The one note app on WP could be miles better and so could it's integration with office lens which bizarrely can't export direct to one note. The ui in both is awful. OneNote in particular I find difficult and slow to navigate.

    Word and excel aren't much better. The ios and android versions are much better and Imo, actually worth the subscription fees! Just because its free on WP doesn't excuse it from being the ginger step child.
    05-30-2014 05:22 PM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    Word and excel aren't much better. The ios and android versions are much better and Imo, actually worth the subscription fees! Just because its free on WP doesn't excuse it from being the ginger step child.
    Office is also now free on iOS and Android. An Office 365 subscription is no longer necessary.
    05-30-2014 05:51 PM
  4. ohgood's Avatar
    How many years (we're currently at 3 years) does it take for the Windows Phone market to be mature?

    Apple's Mac OS has been in the 5% range for a long time (over 5 years) and it's really hard to see what the flash point would be to jump start Windows Phone from 3-4% to the 10% it probably needs to spur companies and developers to add WP 8 to its Android and iOS versions.
    This is a very good example.

    Mac os will not grow more unless Microsoft continues to annoy customers.
    Windows phone will not grow either without Samsung really ticking of their current buyers.

    A big difference is the length of ownership though. The phones get updated every year or two by customers while PC's last past 5 years easily.
    Christopher Lindsay and A895 like this.
    06-01-2014 01:44 PM
  5. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    This is a very good example.

    Mac os will not grow more unless Microsoft continues to annoy customers.
    Windows phone will not grow either without Samsung really ticking of their current buyers.

    A big difference is the length of ownership though. The phones get updated every year or two by customers while PC's last past 5 years easily.
    As an iPhone user I can say for sure that apple is ******* off people but the first place they go it's Android.
    06-01-2014 03:36 PM
  6. KeegdnaB42's Avatar
    "Ignore it and it will go away"
    That's why the app gap exists. It's the same mentality that results in way more complicated social issues. I don't want to equate our situation with things like racism and homophobia because doing so is appropriative as hell (and why the whole #mobileequality thing sort of disgusts me), but when you think about it, it does make for an interesting metaphor and no one should be even close to be surprised that we get this attitude from developers when we ask them to support a platform we *chose* to invest ourselves in because we still live in a world where people have to fight to be recognized as human beings because of factors that are completely out of their control. Let's not also forget that all commercials apps are made on macs, which means you have an elitist minority sitting at the top holding all the power. They don't want WP to succeed and so they'll just ignore it and assume people will just get tired of asking and buy an iPhone or android instead.
    06-05-2014 03:03 PM
  7. colinkiama's Avatar
    The day Microsoft become enthusiastic about the OS, is when developers will fly in
    Last edited by colinkiama; 06-05-2014 at 04:50 PM.
    06-05-2014 03:12 PM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    The fast Microsoft become enthusiastic about the OS, is when developers will fly in
    I think too that the enthusiasm should start at the top. Why are Skype, RDP, and even Office better on iOS & Android than on WP? If the reason is because of OS restrictions (which I believe it may be partially), then why doesn't Microsoft make changes to fix that problem? They're the only ones who can.
    A895 likes this.
    06-05-2014 03:20 PM
  9. PiggyMiddle's Avatar
    This situation is all of msoft's doing in what is and is not allowed when programming an app for WP. Msoft WP-group decided that certain functions will be off limits to devs for the sake of safety and security. However, in typical msoft fashion, they crush the car and contents instead of just changing the flat tire.

    Basically msoft-WP declared that anything within the "Settings" section is off limits so something as simple as an app to turn on/off wifi and/or Tethering is not possible. When you tie one of a dev's hands behind their back, you can only expect a smaller number of apps compared to Android where pretty much anything is allowed.

    With Android, for the app to be available for direct download from the store, it will have been checked for any nastiness before being added to the store. Msoft, on the other hand seem to have said, "too hard," so they just lock devs out of a lot of areas that would make a greater range of apps a possible and viable option.

    I think with the recent change at the top of msoft, and the push to make just one-base for all windows apps, these restrictions will quite quickly be rationalized and removed. That should then lead top more devs writing stuff for WP.

    Sooo, the blame should be placed squarely at the feet of msoft. Once they free up dev access to all of the functions of the phone, the sooner we will have more apps.
    06-05-2014 03:33 PM
  10. colinkiama's Avatar
    I think too that the enthusiasm should start at the top. Why are Skype, RDP, and even Office better on iOS & Android than on WP? If the reason is because of OS restrictions (which I believe it may be partially), then why doesn't Microsoft make changes to fix that problem? They're the only ones who can.
    Lool, it definitely has nothing to do with OS restrictions because Microsoft made the OS themselves. They have machine level access. I heard Skype 8.1 will come soon. And that it will fix all these problems that were are having.
    06-05-2014 04:52 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    And that it will fix all these problems that were are having.
    Ha, we've been hearing that about pretty much every update since the beginning of WP7.
    A895 likes this.
    06-05-2014 05:40 PM
  12. psgenious's Avatar
    as i think many devs would be irritate with wp limitations.
    06-05-2014 09:39 PM
  13. AngrySprintUser's Avatar
    Crab people
    mary beth hale likes this.
    06-05-2014 09:50 PM
  14. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    Do not trust apps, they are made to spy on you or they only exist to collect your personal info. The name of the game is DATA COLLECTION.
    sd173 likes this.
    06-05-2014 10:09 PM
  15. deansmilk's Avatar
    This situation is all of msoft's doing in what is and is not allowed when programming an app for WP. Msoft WP-group decided that certain functions will be off limits to devs for the sake of safety and security. However, in typical msoft fashion, they crush the car and contents instead of just changing the flat tire.

    Basically msoft-WP declared that anything within the "Settings" section is off limits so something as simple as an app to turn on/off wifi and/or Tethering is not possible. When you tie one of a dev's hands behind their back, you can only expect a smaller number of apps compared to Android where pretty much anything is allowed.

    With Android, for the app to be available for direct download from the store, it will have been checked for any nastiness before being added to the store. Msoft, on the other hand seem to have said, "too hard," so they just lock devs out of a lot of areas that would make a greater range of apps a possible and viable option.

    I think with the recent change at the top of msoft, and the push to make just one-base for all windows apps, these restrictions will quite quickly be rationalized and removed. That should then lead top more devs writing stuff for WP.

    Sooo, the blame should be placed squarely at the feet of msoft. Once they free up dev access to all of the functions of the phone, the sooner we will have more apps.
    Whether this is true or not, good. I dont want a bloated mess like Android. Regardless, apps like Hbogo are available on Xbox. Im pretty sure there are just as much wp users as Xbox. I know that's one app, but a major one imo. I dont think the issue is a developers lack of system setting access. I think it's laziness. Well, according to Rubino they dont want to waste resources on updates. Look at the apps from Rudy that work fine without deeper system settings or whatever.
    06-05-2014 10:14 PM
  16. PiggyMiddle's Avatar
    Whether this is true or not, good. I dont want a bloated mess like Android. Regardless, apps like Hbogo are available on Xbox. Im pretty sure there are just as much wp users as Xbox. I know that's one app, but a major one imo. I dont think the issue is a developers lack of system setting access. I think it's laziness. Well, according to Rubino they dont want to waste resources on updates. Look at the apps from Rudy that work fine without deeper system settings or whatever.
    Xbox is a more likely system to be used to watch movies so HBO wrote an app as the xbox is often situated in the lounge room of homes. The phone is pretty useless for movies, so they didn't bother. Therein lies one of the issues with Windows et al. At least four different platforms all under the name of Windows and NOTHING will run cross-platform. Msoft are trying to change that but it is a huge corporation with Institutionalized thinking and mostly staffed by older farts. Just check some of their online tutorials for app programming and there is no one under 40 there.

    It's hard, if not impossible to change thinking when rigid, self-protecting minds defend their patch. I doubt a single windows cross-platform app system will exist within the next 10-years at least. I would LOVE to be proven wrong. I have hundreds of Windows apps that I have developed over the years for x86/x64 and would LOVE to be able to compile them for phone. Instead I have to totally rewrite them and that ain't gonna happen. :)

    Who is Rudy and where can I see some of his/her apps?

    Who is Rubino? Updates are not the issue - cross-platform is IMHO.
    06-09-2014 11:16 AM
  17. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    Who is Rudy and where can I see some of his/her apps?

    Who is Rubino? Updates are not the issue - cross-platform is IMHO.
    This must be your first visit to this site.
    06-09-2014 02:36 PM
  18. PiggyMiddle's Avatar
    This must be your first visit to this site.
    I assume from that comment that you know everything there is to know and has ever been known. I, on the other hand, do know quite a lot, but probably only about 7% of the greater Universal knowledge.

    It would have been more helpful to answer with links or directions such that we poor ignorant old 7-percenters may better-educate ourselves.

    I had done a search on both names before posting that and came up with so many hits, I found it difficult to get even close to what DeansMilk might be alluding to. So, as a lowly, humble but eager to learn 7-percenter, I asked for help to broaden my pathetic grasp on such knowledge. :D
    06-09-2014 03:12 PM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    I assume from that comment that you know everything there is to know and has ever been known. I, on the other hand, do know quite a lot, but probably only about 7% of the greater Universal knowledge.

    It would have been more helpful to answer with links or directions such that we poor ignorant old 7-percenters may better-educate ourselves.

    I had done a search on both names before posting that and came up with so many hits, I found it difficult to get even close to what DeansMilk might be alluding to. So, as a lowly, humble but eager to learn 7-percenter, I asked for help to broaden my pathetic grasp on such knowledge. :D
    This is a tough place. It's like playing poker: difficult to play unless you grow up doing it!
    06-09-2014 03:18 PM
  20. PiggyMiddle's Avatar
    This is a tough place. It's like playing poker: difficult to play unless you grow up doing it!
    Silly old me, and I thought this was HELP forum. Sad really, Mobile Nations will have to do without my click-throughs for ads I guess as I need to find a forum that does actually work to be helpful.
    06-09-2014 05:46 PM
  21. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    I assume from that comment that you know everything there is to know and has ever been known. I, on the other hand, do know quite a lot, but probably only about 7% of the greater Universal knowledge.

    It would have been more helpful to answer with links or directions such that we poor ignorant old 7-percenters may better-educate ourselves.

    I had done a search on both names before posting that and came up with so many hits, I found it difficult to get even close to what DeansMilk might be alluding to. So, as a lowly, humble but eager to learn 7-percenter, I asked for help to broaden my pathetic grasp on such knowledge. :D
    It's like living in America and not knowing who the president is. Well, not really, but yeah kind of like that.
    06-09-2014 07:05 PM
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