06-10-2014 02:35 AM
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  1. neo158's Avatar
    None of the outsiders truly know the reason for Microsoft's purchase of Nokia. It could be for their products and services, their portfolio of patents, or a defensive block to prevent another company from doing so.



    Microsoft has a long track record of re-re-re-rebooting their mobile operating systems. I've been using and developing for their mobile OSes since 2000. I'm painfully aware of how suddenly they drop and restart their mobile OS. Seems to be on a 4 year cycle. I see nothing in Microsoft's corporate culture to indicate that things will be different this time around. Especially since there is the inertia of project development... many times in a F500 company, projects must be carried out to completion (for financial, contractual, and legal reasons) even if the decision has been made to kill the project. The Kin was such a project.


    Just to refresh everyone's memory:
    Windows Mobile 2003 : June 23, 2003 (1st Windows-based smartphone OS)
    Windows Mobile 5 : May 9, 2005
    Windows Mobile 6: February 12, 2007
    Windows Mobile 6.1 : April 1, 2008
    Windows Mobile 6.5: May 11, 2009
    Windows Phone 7: November 8, 2010
    Windows Phone 8: October 29, 2012
    Windows Phone 8.1 : April 2, 2014

    That's not including PocketPC 2000 released in 2000 that was the foundation for everything that came afterwards.
    Actually their mobile operating systems have only been "re-booted" twice, WP7 which was a major overhaul and WP8 when then switched to the NT core.
    snowmutt, b23h and a5cent like this.
    06-04-2014 05:01 PM
  2. Jas00555's Avatar
    None of the outsiders truly know the reason for Microsoft's purchase of Nokia. It could be for their products and services, their portfolio of patents, or a defensive block to prevent another company from doing so.



    Microsoft has a long track record of re-re-re-rebooting their mobile operating systems. I've been using and developing for their mobile OSes since 2000. I'm painfully aware of how suddenly they drop and restart their mobile OS. Seems to be on a 4 year cycle. I see nothing in Microsoft's corporate culture to indicate that things will be different this time around. Especially since there is the inertia of project development... many times in a F500 company, projects must be carried out to completion (for financial, contractual, and legal reasons) even if the decision has been made to kill the project. The Kin was such a project.


    Just to refresh everyone's memory:
    Windows Mobile 2003 : June 23, 2003 (1st Windows-based smartphone OS)
    Windows Mobile 5 : May 9, 2005
    Windows Mobile 6: February 12, 2007
    Windows Mobile 6.1 : April 1, 2008
    Windows Mobile 6.5: May 11, 2009
    Windows Phone 7: November 8, 2010
    Windows Phone 8: October 29, 2012
    Windows Phone 8.1 : April 2, 2014

    That's not including PocketPC 2000 released in 2000 that was the foundation for everything that came afterwards.
    Were all of those Windows Mobile versions completely incompatible with each other? If not, then that would only be once every 7 years. I mean, unless you're getting mad at Apple because they go from iOS 1 to 2 to 3 etc...
    snowmutt and b23h like this.
    06-04-2014 05:07 PM
  3. snowmutt's Avatar
    I think some users are pushing the panic button before they need to, here. There is nothing to suggest MS is backing away from WP. Actually, every statement tells me they realize how important mobile is to the future of this company and their products. All I keep hearing as far as gossip from Mary Jo Foley and Mr. Thurrott is that WP 9.0 will be the long sought unification of mobile apps and mobile OS from WinRT and WP.

    Besides, let's not forget what company we are talking about here. Microsoft is not a mobile only, or even mobile dependant, company. It is a vast, enterprise driven company with fingers in all sorts of profit producing pies. This is about the future, and MS fights for that. They do not need to be #1 in mobile phone OS's for this to be worth them to keep it up. They will release things on Apple and Android, and will continue to have desktop (which is declining but nowhere near dead, most likely not even really dying) software income, they have Bing turning a profit finally, they have XBOX entertainment services either established or launching producing profit, and maybe half a dozen other money making products I am either forgetting about or have no idea they are involved in. If WP continues to grow at .5%-1.0% a year, the money keeps getting better, they have their own OS to sell and improve on. That will be enough to keep them in the game, nibbling at Android and Apple. As more and more people use live tile based OS, more and more they will see WP as something common.

    No crystal ball here, but I say through 2015, or even 2016 is assured. Any other worries are just a tad premature.
    06-04-2014 05:30 PM
  4. thatotherdude24's Avatar
    Yeah I don't understand what Microsoft was thinking with RT because it is useless when there are full Windows 8 tablets as low as $100. I don't think any manufacturer besides Microsoft and Nokia have a RT tablet at that. It shows OEMs don't have confidence in it.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    I don't think OEMs do have confidence either. Especially HP with all the chromebooks they are pushing out as well as 2 Android powered laptops in the past year. Yes other OEMs are doing the same but HP seems to be doing it at a faster rate.


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk
    A895 likes this.
    06-04-2014 05:43 PM
  5. A895's Avatar
    I don't think OEMs do have confidence either. Especially HP with all the chromebooks they are pushing out as well as 2 Android powered laptops in the past year. Yes other OEMs are doing the same but HP seems to be doing it at a faster rate.


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk
    I am still waiting for HP to do a Android phone. Between the Chromebooks, Android Laptops and Tablets it's the only logical step left.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    06-04-2014 05:47 PM
  6. Jazmac's Avatar
    I didn't get a sense for Paul being mournful or something like that in that particular post, so I am a little confused by that. ...
    You are entitled to be confused since I never implied Paul was mournful. :)
    snowmutt and b23h like this.
    06-04-2014 05:50 PM
  7. LeopardSurd's Avatar
    I just been looking at the list of Lumia phones available and i see no reason to upgrade either, there is no killer must have feature on high end phones, the bigger camera is nice but a killer feature no, i think my phone is the sweet spot of Lumias, perfect size 4.3", great battery life, no issues with 8.1, upgradeable memory with SD space and with thanks to the Os its snappy and never lags ...
    I agree. For me a must-have feature is a huge battery in a easy pocketable body (720, 820, 920, 925, 8X phones).
    Like my last Android phone: Moto Razr Maxx. But in that case, Android made it garbage..
    06-04-2014 05:57 PM
  8. TechAbstract's Avatar
    I agree. For me a must-have feature is a huge battery in a easy pocketable body (720, 820, 920, 925, 8X phones).
    Like my last Android phone: Moto Razr Maxx. But in that case, Android made it garbage..
    It would be nice if I can put Windows Phone on my Android phones. Still have couple of them laying around.
    06-04-2014 08:04 PM
  9. b23h's Avatar
    You are entitled to be confused since I never implied Paul was mournful. :)
    Bingo, sorry. I'm still a little confused why you were lugubrious about 8.1 being more or less final and why you were thinking MS might want to pull the plug. However you responded to another poster who apparently had not upgraded to 8.1 and suggested that they talk to you when they had. So I assume you're not too terribly happy with 8.1 and would have preferred that it not be final and potentially fixed to some degree by "final" code. Is that too much of an assumption?

    Now I've seen your posts before but I have to admit there's few people that I track or remember and it's usually because they have some sort of out there idea or are working my nerve. You're not in those categories. If you feel like summing up how you feel about 8.1 I'd like to hear it.

    Personally I like it quite a bit. However there's definitely work that needs to be done on multiple issues. None of the problems are show stoppers for me and I am impressed by the steps forward more than I am depressed by the steps backwards or problems. I expect some of the issues I have concerns about will be addressed by either app updates or GDRs. Heck, some of the problem might be pushed to WP9. However overall I am happy with 8.1 and my 920 is working quite well.

    So if you have time, what is your experience?
    Nickkk101 likes this.
    06-04-2014 08:09 PM
  10. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    So Microsoft has been in the mobile space for thirteen years and what they are going to walk away from it? They've moved WP's kernel from WinCE to WinNT and are moving to unify the stores and simplify the app development process across multiple platforms and you think WHAT?

    Yes, we are going to see tweaks and further development. Yes, no doubt we will see a WP9. However we have a baseline product that MS is committed to and will continue to develop and support.
    walk away, no... Restart? Quite likely... Especially given their track record.

    is it so difficult for you to see their track record and their 2% market share and wonder why people are skeptical of their future in the mobile space?
    A895 likes this.
    06-04-2014 09:18 PM
  11. Jazmac's Avatar
    Bingo, sorry. I'm still a little confused why you were lugubrious about 8.1 being more or less final and why you were thinking MS might want to pull the plug. However you responded to another poster who apparently had not upgraded to 8.1 and suggested that they talk to you when they had. ...
    Might not be a good idea to assume fact not yet in evidence. You would be better served keeping to the facts you can understand and leave Facebook analysis on Facebook. WPCentral is a tech forum. I have no FEELINGS as it relates to tech. Its just tech.
    So if you have time, what is your experience?
    Still more Facebook renderings and again, its not up for discussion. Ask Laura K. of her experience. She is a good bit more interesting and hella hotter than me. Guaranteed! :)
    06-04-2014 09:29 PM
  12. A895's Avatar
    walk away, no... Restart? Quite likely... Especially given their track record.

    is it so difficult for you to see their track record and their 2% market share and wonder why people are skeptical of their future in the mobile space?
    I would agree with you. I think they may rethink some ways they are approaching the smartphone market.

    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
    06-04-2014 09:41 PM
  13. b23h's Avatar
    Might not be a good idea to assume fact not yet in evidence. You would be better served keeping to the facts you can understand and leave Facebook analysis on Facebook. WPCentral is a tech forum. I have no FEELINGS as it relates to tech. Its just tech.


    Still more Facebook renderings and again, its not up for discussion. Ask Laura K. of her experience. She is a good bit more interesting and hella hotter than me. Guaranteed! :)
    That's an interesting response.
    1. You use the term lugubrious and then state you have no feelings about tech.
    2. In this thread you say to someone, "Don't misunderstand. I'm not bored with it. Just wait until you get it, then we'll talk" , but don't want to discuss your conclusions.
    3. I did take the time to look at some of your older posts shortly after I posted and I expect my conclusion is a pretty accurate summation.

    "Facebook renderings" seems like a potentially insulting characterization. No would have worked as well without all the clear contradictions and weird characterizations. You have successfully made an impact though.

    I am curious as to what the "facts you can understand" are and the analysis I'm missing, but it's a rhetorical question. No doubt I would not understand your exposition.
    Nickkk101 likes this.
    06-04-2014 10:06 PM
  14. BobLobIaw's Avatar
    walk away, no... Restart? Quite likely... Especially given their track record.

    is it so difficult for you to see their track record and their 2% market share and wonder why people are skeptical of their future in the mobile space?
    The 4% market share for Windows Phone is small enough that it doesn't need to be understated for emphasis. All you accomplish by doing so is undermining your own credibility.
    06-04-2014 11:49 PM
  15. Editguy1900's Avatar
    I don't think OEMs do have confidence either. Especially HP with all the chromebooks they are pushing out as well as 2 Android powered laptops in the past year. Yes other OEMs are doing the same but HP seems to be doing it at a faster rate.


    Sent from my iPad Air using Tapatalk
    HP is in such deep trouble that they're just throwing stuff at the wall to see what will stick.
    06-05-2014 12:37 AM
  16. hagjohn's Avatar
    I'm running 8.1 on my 1020 and it's just as fast, if not a little faster, than 8 was. It's fluid (things open as soon as I click on them) in virtually everything, other than music apps, which I do agree just plain suck but that's an app issue, not OS/Hardware speed issue.
    06-05-2014 04:01 AM
  17. Studio384's Avatar
    I imagine the next update will be Fall of this year but I don't expect any groundbreaking releases until Windows Phone 9 in Spring of 2015.
    Windows Phone 8.1 Update 1 is expected to be finished next month, actualy.
    06-05-2014 04:49 AM
  18. Studio384's Avatar
    Yeah I don't understand what Microsoft was thinking with RT because it is useless when there are full Windows 8 tablets as low as $100. I don't think any manufacturer besides Microsoft and Nokia have a RT tablet at that. It shows OEMs don't have confidence in it. On the other hand part of me believes Microsoft put out Windows Phone to test the smartphone market waters. I think they are going to increase efforts there next year. But hopefully for them it won't be too late.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    Microsoft introduced Windows RT to shake Intel. Their hardware was a no-go on tablets back in 2011. Intel made a lot of improvement because Microsoft had now software that ran on competitors' hardware. Intel HAD to fix it.
    06-05-2014 04:51 AM
  19. Pieter Wolff's Avatar
    I just been looking at the list of Lumia phones available and i see no reason to upgrade either, there is no killer must have feature on high end phones, the bigger camera is nice but a killer feature no, i think my phone is the sweet spot of Lumias, perfect size 4.3", great battery life, no issues with 8.1, upgradeable memory with SD space and with thanks to the Os its snappy and never lags ... if we stay at 8.?? forever, i`m happy
    Same here. Sounds like you own a L720 to me. No need to change as I'm quite happy with all present features. Also still at 8.
    06-05-2014 06:15 AM
  20. Nickkk101's Avatar
    That's an interesting response.
    1. You use the term lugubrious and then state you have no feelings about tech.
    2. In this thread you say to someone, "Don't misunderstand. I'm not bored with it. Just wait until you get it, then we'll talk" , but don't want to discuss your conclusions.
    3. I did take the time to look at some of your older posts shortly after I posted and I expect my conclusion is a pretty accurate summation.

    "Facebook renderings" seems like a potentially insulting characterization. No would have worked as well without all the clear contradictions and weird characterizations. You have successfully made an impact though.

    I am curious as to what the "facts you can understand" are and the analysis I'm missing, but it's a rhetorical question. No doubt I would not understand your exposition.

    ​I have to say, 10/10 on an eloquent answer there. Its nice to read well thought out points and answers. Sounds like you wont get an answer though, which is a shame because I always enjoy reading people's wider views on the state of an OS or ecosystem, particularly MS's. I think there's good discussions to be had (yes, still) without it being characterised as 'facebook ramblings' or whatever what is supposed to mean...! I sure as hell wouldn't debate the finer points of Windows Phone on Facebook, unless i wanted to hemorrhage friends and probably family members on there...actually, come to think of it.... ;)
    b23h likes this.
    06-05-2014 06:58 AM
  21. A895's Avatar
    Microsoft introduced Windows RT to shake Intel. Their hardware was a no-go on tablets back in 2011. Intel made a lot of improvement because Microsoft had now software that ran on competitors' hardware. Intel HAD to fix it.
    Source?

    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
    06-05-2014 07:30 AM
  22. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    Those are old Android misconceptions.

    Sent from my XT907 using Mobile Nations mobile app
    My sister has a Galaxy S2 and it's total junk
    Drisker likes this.
    06-05-2014 07:41 AM
  23. Jas00555's Avatar
    Source?

    Posted via Windows Phone Central App
    Common sense and looking at Intel's line-up would be the only source you would need. Intel had no good, cheap, long-lasting battery life chips until Bay trail and Clover trail. Microsoft had to go with ARM for that. Now, why they picked Nvidia over Qualcomm, I'll never know.
    BobLobIaw likes this.
    06-05-2014 07:52 AM
  24. mparker's Avatar
    Microsoft introduced Windows RT to shake Intel. Their hardware was a no-go on tablets back in 2011. Intel made a lot of improvement because Microsoft had now software that ran on competitors' hardware. Intel HAD to fix it.
    Common sense and looking at Intel's line-up would be the only source you would need. Intel had no good, cheap, long-lasting battery life chips until Bay trail and Clover trail. Microsoft had to go with ARM for that. Now, why they picked Nvidia over Qualcomm, I'll never know.
    I'm not so sure about that. Microsoft certainly knew about the Bay Trail, Clover Trail, as well as the outlines of Haswell, and probably Broadwell when it made the decision to support ARM. Intel's roadmaps go out nearly a decade (though they obviously get more speculative the farther out you go) because Intel not only has to design and manufacture the CPUs, they have to build the fab lines that will be used to manufacture the CPUs, and the supporting chips for those CPU's, and the motherboards for those chips. I think the decision to add ARM support was made because Windows NT needed it. It's prosaic, and doesn't make a good story, but I think it has the virtue of being supported by history.

    Microsoft has always made sure that Windows NT was supported on at least two different CPU's. One of them has always been x86, but there has always been another CPU that was supported, all the way back to the dawn of NT. Windows NT was originally developed on the MIPS R3000 CPU (used by Silicon Graphics) and then ported to Intel - just to make absolutely sure that no x86-isms infected the codebase. When MIPS declined in importance, the next release supported the DEC Alpha machines. When DEC went under, the very next release ran on Intel Itanium machines. Itanium flopped in the marketplace, but Microsoft kept supporting it with NT until Windows 8, when Itanium support was dropped. And lo and behold, Windows 8 supports the ARM CPU. ARM is the only other CPU architecture that is important at the moment, and the logical choice for the "other" CPU architecture. Maybe in another 5 years they'll drop ARM and add support for the Mill or something.

    Apple does the same thing BTW. The NeXTStep OS ran on PPC, x86, HP Prism, and MC86k. After they were acquired/took over Apple, all consumers ever saw was the PowerPC version but internally Apple made sure it still ran on x86 (which was the only other CPU that was still around). So their switch to x86 wasn't terribly surprising if you knew the history of the OS, nor the port of the kernel to ARM for the iPod/iPhone/iPad lines.
    06-05-2014 07:53 AM
  25. A895's Avatar
    My sister has a Galaxy S2 and it's total junk
    You mean an almost 3 year old phone is junk? Do tell....
    06-05-2014 07:58 AM
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