08-19-2014 12:46 AM
55 123
tools
  1. CyclingGuyNola's Avatar
    Nope. Dev's failing to innovate for WP. MSFT is your best friend. Resources and tools are there. Best of all free and Open Source.

    And if you want to hire someone help. That's available too. This..... though depends on your resources.

    Nothing but copy cat dev's on WP.

    Where are the WP exclusive? Dev's lets see it.

    I love ❤ MSFT.
    As someone who is considered a huge Microsoft Fanboy by everyone that knows him and also as a VB Developer for the past 15 yrs I can tell you, drop the fanboyism and look at the facts.

    Yes, market share plays a part. Naturally iPhone and Android have more apps\games developers for one reason, would you sell a product to a room of 100 or a room of 10?

    Another reason. Ad revenue is huge, I know especially on Android, not sure on iPhone. You can open an Android app and be flooded every second with bs ads. This is strictly forbidden in WP. So why would the kid in the basement jump to WP when he can't make the same amount of money from ads because, lets face it, if he released the same app without the flood of ads on WP and charged a buck for it, people are extremely cheap and unless its made of gold they wont buy it.

    Another reason. WP is overly locked down to developers. You can argue this but coming from someone who has released 100+ applications for Windows and is now jumping through hoops to get around a steady stream of road blocks in code, its a pain in the @ss to write an app in a week (if its possible at all) that would normally take a day.

    Your points about development languages are pretty off. I write in VB, can write in C# and C++. If you were to ask, C++would be the language I'd have to say is the best way to go for the exact reasons the poster a few posts above me stated.

    Do I agree that Microsoft has done an excellent job helping devs and doing what they can to bring more devs, yes but, Microsoft needs to relax the strong arm grip on the OS a bit to get more devs onboard.

    Just remember, just because iPhone and Android have a million fart apps and WP doesn't, doesn't mean they have more devs, just means we get better class developer. I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week.
    06-10-2014 05:20 PM
  2. k0de's Avatar
    As someone who is considered a huge Microsoft Fanboy by everyone that knows him and also as a VB Developer for the past 15 yrs I can tell you, drop the fanboyism and look at the facts.

    Yes, market share plays a part. Naturally iPhone and Android have more apps\games developers for one reason, would you sell a product to a room of 100 or a room of 10?

    Another reason. Ad revenue is huge, I know especially on Android, not sure on iPhone. You can open an Android app and be flooded every second with bs ads. This is strictly forbidden in WP. So why would the kid in the basement jump to WP when he can't make the same amount of money from ads because, lets face it, if he released the same app without the flood of ads on WP and charged a buck for it, people are extremely cheap and unless its made of gold they wont buy it.

    Another reason. WP is overly locked down to developers. You can argue this but coming from someone who has released 100+ applications for Windows and is now jumping through hoops to get around a steady stream of road blocks in code, its a pain in the @ss to write an app in a week (if its possible at all) that would normally take a day.

    Your points about development languages are pretty off. I write in VB, can write in C# and C++. If you were to ask, C++would be the language I'd have to say is the best way to go for the exact reasons the poster a few posts above me stated.

    Do I agree that Microsoft has done an excellent job helping devs and doing what they can to bring more devs, yes but, Microsoft needs to relax the strong arm grip on the OS a bit to get more devs onboard.

    Just remember, just because iPhone and Android have a million fart apps and WP doesn't, doesn't mean they have more devs, just means we get better class developer. I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week.


    Hmmm. You code for money? Is that correct? So if money is not present you wont code?

    Correct if I am wrong?

    MSFT technology to me is the best thing that happened to men when it comes to computing.

    I am not a Fan boy. I am a realist. Please explain to me what is wrong with MSFT programming that Apple and Android are superior
    Last edited by k0de; 06-10-2014 at 05:35 PM.
    06-10-2014 05:23 PM
  3. k0de's Avatar
    I'll never code for money. I code for fun. Money can't afford my code. I love ❤ code.
    anon(7900571) likes this.
    06-10-2014 05:40 PM
  4. k0de's Avatar
    To me coding is an art. Not enough money in the world. To buy my God giving talent.

    Not for sale.

    Oops I never get a job in code.
    06-10-2014 05:43 PM
  5. k0de's Avatar
    This.,,,, WP devs just code....
    06-10-2014 05:44 PM
  6. David P2's Avatar
    Shame we can't use assembler. Nothing will ever beat pure assembler for speed.
    06-10-2014 05:55 PM
  7. Jas00555's Avatar
    How does charging money for code change anything? Lol. Does that make the makers of Infinity Blade less of a coder than the guy who made Flappy Bird?
    06-10-2014 05:59 PM
  8. a5cent's Avatar
    Shame we can't use assembler. Nothing will ever beat pure assembler for speed.
    Bah, that's for wimps. I code everything in binary. ;-)
    06-10-2014 06:02 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    How does charging money for code change anything? Lol. Does that make the makers of Infinity Blade less of a coder than the guy who made Flappy Bird?
    No, but that isn't what he is trying to say. The point he is trying to make is one about passion. I think k0de perceives WP developers to be somewhat uncreative money grubbing capitalists. I think K0de wishes WP developers were more idealistic, in the sense that they would more often try to make awesome apps on WP for the love of the art and for the love of WP, instead of caring just about market share and profit potential.

    I can sympathize with that view, but it's unrealistic, because creating great software is hard and takes a lot of time that most people with a life and a day job just don't have. People not professionally involved generally also lack the experience to make really good apps. The average quality of most apps, in all app stores, shows that quite clearly.

    TBH, the professionals also often suck, but for other reasons, often related to time and budget pressures.
    06-10-2014 06:10 PM
  10. CyclingGuyNola's Avatar
    Hmmm. You code for money? Is that correct? So if money is not present you wont code?

    Correct if I am wrong?

    MSFT technology to me is the best thing that happened to men when it comes to computing.

    I am not a Fan boy. I am a realist. Please explain to me what is wrong with MSFT programming that Apple and Android are superior
    Wrong, all of my apps I have released are free apps. They do include a donate button but I have never benefited from those.

    Every app I have written has been to help users except for one which I wrote to prove a point to Microsoft that a flaw in the Windows 7 Logon Screen could allow me to walk up to a PC, plug in my flash drive and copy every file I wanted on the system without being logged in.

    I code because I enjoy it. I like to read peoples comments when I make something that helped them. I enjoy the stream of emails I receive with thanks. That is how I am paid. Sure, I plan to have at least one paid app on WP but, I never expect to get rich from it. Hell, I develop on a 4yr old FrankenDell laptop.

    I'm also old enough to understand the (real) reasons why devs aren't flocking to WP in mass.

    And yes, you're a fan boy. I'm a fan boy and I can pick fanboys out when I see them.

    If people really want to enjoy WP, people need to quit complaining about what WP doesn't have and focus on what WP does have, a far superior phone experience that is slowly being molded into the defacto OS.

    If you can code and aren't happy with an app, then create your own personal apps. I do it. Have several that are just for mine and my wife's phone.

    Not criticizing you or anyone by no means and as I said, I do agree that in the end, devs will jump on board more and more. Just enjoy not having to search the app store through the great flood of crap apps, in time more quality devs will jump on board.
    06-10-2014 06:57 PM
  11. CyclingGuyNola's Avatar
    No, but that isn't what he is trying to say. The point he is trying to make is one about passion. I think k0de perceives WP developers to be somewhat uncreative money grubbing capitalists. I think K0de wishes WP developers were more idealistic, in the sense that they would more often try to make awesome apps on WP for the love of the art and for the love of WP, instead of caring just about market share and profit potential.

    I can sympathize with that view, but it's unrealistic, because creating great software is hard and takes a lot of time that most people with a life and a day job just don't have. People not professionally involved generally also lack the experience to make really good apps. The average quality of most apps, in all app stores, shows that quite clearly.

    TBH, the professionals also often suck, but for other reasons, often related to time and budget pressures.
    Agree 100%
    a5cent likes this.
    06-10-2014 06:58 PM
  12. k0de's Avatar
    Wrong, all of my apps I have released are free apps. They do include a donate button but I have never benefited from those.

    Every app I have written has been to help users except for one which I wrote to prove a point to Microsoft that a flaw in the Windows 7 Logon Screen could allow me to walk up to a PC, plug in my flash drive and copy every file I wanted on the system without being logged in.

    I code because I enjoy it. I like to read peoples comments when I make something that helped them. I enjoy the stream of emails I receive with thanks. That is how I am paid. Sure, I plan to have at least one paid app on WP but, I never expect to get rich from it. Hell, I develop on a 4yr old FrankenDell laptop.

    I'm also old enough to understand the (real) reasons why devs aren't flocking to WP in mass.

    And yes, you're a fan boy. I'm a fan boy and I can pick fanboys out when I see them.

    If people really want to enjoy WP, people need to quit complaining about what WP doesn't have and focus on what WP does have, a far superior phone experience that is slowly being molded into the defacto OS.

    If you can code and aren't happy with an app, then create your own personal apps. I do it. Have several that are just for mine and my wife's phone.

    Not criticizing you or anyone by no means and as I said, I do agree that in the end, devs will jump on board more and more. Just enjoy not having to search the app store through the great flood of crap apps, in time more quality devs will jump on board.
    Well said DVELOPinc continue the good work for WP. Thanks for developing WP.

    Seriously I salute you. WP needs more dev's with your attitude and motivation. Your speech is cool and inspiring, Thanks what say shows you love code.

    Not all dev's lack heart on this platform. You are a good example.

    I hope the rest WIll follow.

    Thanks.

    Lets code WP dev's.
    06-10-2014 07:12 PM
  13. JamesPTao's Avatar
    I was talking to a friend of mine who is a member of MSDN about my peeve with Xbox music not being even close to having the functionality that Zune had and he had an interesting response. He said the reason for the lack of extra features was that windows idea for their apps was to have all the basic functions needed for the general populace but for those who want more or power users they were intentionally leaving it that way to spurn investment in third party apps to make it more profitable and appealing a platform for appwriters. He stated that was a big complaint for app writers in IOS is that they put too many features in apples own apps which discouraged people from investing money in 3rd party competitors for those types of apps. I thought that was a great concept and impressive windows was thinking this way and valuing their 3rd party app writers this way. Go windows!
    latempete likes this.
    06-10-2014 07:48 PM
  14. irvin792's Avatar
    I was talking to a friend of mine who is a member of MSDN about my peeve with Xbox music not being even close to having the functionality that Zune had and he had an interesting response. He said the reason for the lack of extra features was that windows idea for their apps was to have all the basic functions needed for the general populace but for those who want more or power users they were intentionally leaving it that way to spurn investment in third party apps to make it more profitable and appealing a platform for appwriters. He stated that was a big complaint for app writers in IOS is that they put too many features in apples own apps which discouraged people from investing money in 3rd party competitors for those types of apps. I thought that was a great concept and impressive windows was thinking this way and valuing their 3rd party app writers this way. Go windows!
    That kind of thinking for the Xbox music app would be retarded imo. Maybe good in general, but really?
    JamesPTao and James8561 like this.
    06-10-2014 08:05 PM
  15. latempete's Avatar
    That would be great. Can someone recreate Zune? Call it Tune or Tunes or something. I'd pay $5 -$10 for it depending on how good it was. I bought CarDash pro just for the music "swipe" to change tracks feature. And that app keeps the screen on so I can see the artist and change tracks when driving. (my phone is in a holder and plugged into my aux on my stereo.)

    I didn't have to go with pro, they have a music upgrade only option. But I use the app all the time so why not give them the money? I want more music features!
    06-10-2014 08:17 PM
  16. SSgt Bruskowiz's Avatar
    I think we stil have a long way to go.
    Here is my reasening,
    nextgen developers are those kids who are now on this day playing with there Droid phones on the schoolyards.
    So the audience is bigger there, they know the system and the hardware.
    Besides that,when a eager kiddo wants to start developing they work with the means they got.
    And the most of them stil use a Droid phone or Ios.

    Besides that, if you want to write for WP you need atleast a windows 8 computer.
    If we or MS want more developers, we must stimulate our young.
    Couse the most developers are starting coding as a hobby.

    MS should let go of the paid developersaccounts not only for our students but for everyone.
    MS is asking real money from developers only for a account, and over the backs of these same developers they also make money over there paid apps.
    So why not making money only on these apps and let the developers develop for free.
    Or let developers push a max amount of apps for free in the store.

    There are a lot of bright ( young ) minds out there, but they can never shine because of the expenses.
    19 $ is maybe not mutch, but there are a lot of parents outhere who can not even mis that kind of money.
    Its not only the 20 but you also need a windows 8 computer ( and of course a phone )

    So i suggest, make all accounts free with a maximum of ten apps to push in the store.
    Make it possible to develope on Vista or Win 7 machines
    And make our young more enthousiast for the platform.
    Maybe with a lowbudget scholar package, with books, laptop, phone/tablet and a account.
    When i am looking in our local library i find books in native language about droid and ios developing,
    but non or what so ever about Windows Phone
    Hell, they even have Steve Job schools.
    06-10-2014 09:04 PM
  17. JamesPTao's Avatar
    That would be great. Can someone recreate Zune? Call it Tune or Tunes or something. I'd pay $5 -$10 for it depending on how good it was. I bought CarDash pro just for the music "swipe" to change tracks feature. And that app keeps the screen on so I can see the artist and change tracks when driving. (my phone is in a holder and plugged into my aux on my stereo.)

    I didn't have to go with pro, they have a music upgrade only option. But I use the app all the time so why not give them the money? I want more music features!
    I would pay for a Zune app as well!
    06-10-2014 11:35 PM
  18. JamesPTao's Avatar
    That kind of thinking for the Xbox music app would be retarded imo. Maybe good in general, but really?
    Similar feeling, but the biggest complaint in WP is the app ecosystem so it is good to hear they are building with that problem in mind with decisions being made to attract and please writers.
    06-10-2014 11:40 PM
  19. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    Similar feeling, but the biggest complaint in WP is the app ecosystem so it is good to hear they are building with that problem in mind with decisions being made to attract and please writers.
    The problem with this is they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

    Without quality system apps like a music video player,they are going to be losing their customer base really soon.
    If we have to wait until a 3rd party developer straightens out the total cluster puck Xbox music is and then add insult to injury by having to pay for what should be, it won't bode well for them and will bite them in their wallets...

    I'm all for developers making money off their apps 100% but Xbox music is a system app that I have no choice of keeping on my phone.....
    a5cent and James8561 like this.
    06-11-2014 12:32 AM
  20. irvin792's Avatar
    The problem with this is they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

    Without quality system apps like a music video player,they are going to be losing their customer base really soon.
    If we have to wait until a 3rd party developer straightens out the total cluster puck Xbox music is and then add insult to injury by having to pay for what should be, it won't bode well for them and will bite them in their wallets...

    I'm all for developers making money off their apps 100% but Xbox music is a system app that I have no choice of keeping on my phone.....
    Exactly
    06-11-2014 12:52 AM
  21. Chregu's Avatar
    The problem with this is they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

    Without quality system apps like a music video player,they are going to be losing their customer base really soon.
    If we have to wait until a 3rd party developer straightens out the total cluster puck Xbox music is and then add insult to injury by having to pay for what should be, it won't bode well for them and will bite them in their wallets...

    I'm all for developers making money off their apps 100% but Xbox music is a system app that I have no choice of keeping on my phone.....
    It was like this with the calendar until WP8.1. I have bought too many calendar apps because the one Microsoft provided unchanged since the release of WP7 was just not practical to use.
    06-11-2014 03:43 AM
  22. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    It was like this with the calendar until WP8.1. I have bought too many calendar apps because the one Microsoft provided unchanged since the release of WP7 was just not practical to use.
    I've bought my last app for WP........I'll not spend another dime on either my 1520 or my wife's 1020 until they completely overhaul their music video apps,and if this doesn't happen,then I will trade both in come November,even for a loss if I have to.

    I'm to old to play the waiting and praying game.....went down that path before,and it's just not worth the effort again
    mary beth hale likes this.
    06-11-2014 04:13 AM
  23. rex.reyesiii's Avatar
    Objective C is nothing but "small talk"  sorry Apple. Java is cool but Java can't live outside a JVM sorry Android oops Google.

    C++ is a cool alternative to C. But C# is better than C and C++ combine together. C++ ++1 over C. Haha
    C# ++2 over C and C++ combined .

    Understand this principal and you shall understand that MSFT and Windows Phone will soon rule.

    C#, XAML, HTM5, JavaScript are the computing languages of the future.

    Clang, Jvac, Cli. Heavy weight championship of Compilers.

    And the winner is?

    Cli, oops my bad.

    Remarkable.

    Your thoughts?
    I agree.. though I think everyone is jumping on the AngularJS Bandwagon.

    C# is the "prettiest" for me. Coding with it is like Art compared to Visual Basic for example. :P
    06-11-2014 04:43 AM
  24. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    I've bought my last app for WP........I'll not spend another dime on either my 1520 or my wife's 1020 until they completely overhaul their music video apps,and if this doesn't happen,then I will trade both in come November,even for a loss if I have to.

    I'm to old to play the waiting and praying game.....went down that path before,and it's just not worth the effort again
    Never buy a device unless it can do what you want RIGHT NOW.

    Otherwise, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    tgp and ohgood like this.
    06-11-2014 07:32 AM
  25. MDMcAtee's Avatar
    Never buy a device unless it can do what you want RIGHT NOW.

    Otherwise, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    Yea,well we all make mistakes from time to time.

    Had I known that this was as bad as it is......idk........I really like the phone,but....this issue has really changed my entire perspective about WP and the lack of caring Microsoft has shown to such a large amount of folks wanting something better.

    Hindsight is 20/20
    06-11-2014 08:36 AM
55 123

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