Soon tables will turn. Windows Phone Dev's will over power the competition.

[Reflexx]

I am an ERP (Peoplesoft) developer and thought of developing apps for Windows phone. Above is the exact reason why I couldnt develop. I thought I can get serious about APP development once I START with a single app. But this single app is not working out.

But the problem isn't that. It's that there isn't enough reason/motivation for you to want to get the necessary equipment to develop for Windows.

 

[Reflexx]

I used to think there would be a tipping point when developers would flood to windows8 (w8) because of unified development for desktop and windows phone (wp) applications too.

Now, I see it as a concept or theory that never came to fruition.

Not because of a lack of user base, developer interest, or dominance from android and apple.

The only reason I see that wasn't accounted for is that people just don't need or want applications for both desktop and mobile that do the same things. There are a few exceptions like Spotify and Facebook, but very few, and in my opinion, they are very rare.

How will Microsoft rethink their needs for unified applications ? I don't know.

I'm not sure if a "flood" will happen. Well, at least not quickly. If there's a flood, it's not going to be a "flash flood" where it hits you out of the blue and nobody saw it coming. I think we'll see a gradual growth as two things happen.

1. Increased prevalence of Windows tablets
2. Gradual consumer comfort with the Modern user environment

There isn't any urgency right now. It's kind of something that consumers are able to feel out because they can always fall back to their desktop applications. They're kind of in an experimental stage when it comes to Modern app usage. As a result, many devs are lukewarm. They are dipping their toes in, but aren't willing to do things that require more than just a passive effort.

 

[colinkiama]

That's not much of a hoop to jump. It's just that the dev doesn't want to.

Blame Microsoft for making Windows 8's reputation look bad.

 

[k0de]

In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, I'm going to flat out disagree with most of those claims :wink:

Objective -C is nothing like Smalltalk. Just the fact that Smalltalk is dynamically typed puts it in a completely different category! Objective C is C with a messaging system on top that was borrowed from Smalltalk, but the language itself is firmly rooted in C.

Claiming that C# is better than C and C++ together also puts you on shaky ground. It depends what you want to do. Most of the gaming industry is firmly rooted in C++, and that has been true for so long that just claiming "tradition" or "don't want to change" doesn't cut it. In some industries, C++ provides advantages that none of the easier high-level languages you mention can compete with.

You trashed Java for being unable to live outside the JVM, but your favourite alternative has the exact same issue. C# can't live outside the CLR either. Same concept, same problems, same undeterminisitc behaviour at runtime. You can't trash one without trashing the other. That iOS apps use one of the languages you dislike (Objective C) is the main reason why iOS apps have very short startup times. Those apps have no runtime environment to initialize during startup, which significantly contributes to startup overhead on WP. Lengthy startup times can be traced directly back to the usage of high-level .NET languages like C#.

Of the four languages you claimed to be the computing languages of the future, only two are actually computing languages. HTML5 and XAML are declarative languages that are targeted at very specific problems. They aren't general programming languages in the traditional sense.

In a nutshell, as long as we have operating systems, there will continue to be a need for lower-level languages (like C++). Some would call those high-level languages you listed toys :wink:

Either way, I don't think programming languages matter much. What does matter is market share. All else is close to irrelevant. Just the fact that Apple could get most of the world's developers stumbling over themselves to create apps in Objective C proves that.

Man.,, you are so on point. Your quote I tip my hat to. Very true, Bottom line though is not market share.

Lets see going foward how WP devs out code the competition. Is already starting to show.

 

[k0de]

Blame Microsoft for making Windows 8's reputation look bad.

Nope. Dev's failing to innovate for WP. MSFT is your best friend. Resources and tools are there. Best of all free and Open Source.

And if you want to hire some help. That's available too. This..... though depends on your resources.

Nothing but copy cat dev's on WP. Call it third party if you will. To me is nothing but copy cats. No good.

WP needs exclusive apps!

Where are the WP exclusive? Dev's lets see them apps.

Tools + Resources + imagination + no alibis = Great Apps,

Use your imagination. Shape the world of computing with your thoughts. It requires brain power but not impossible.

Simply put.,,,, Think and code your thoughts. Oops is that algorithms?

Simply said just put your thoughts into code.

You feel me?

Lets code!

I love ❤ MSFT.

 

[CyclingGuyNola]

Nope. Dev's failing to innovate for WP. MSFT is your best friend. Resources and tools are there. Best of all free and Open Source.

And if you want to hire someone help. That's available too. This..... though depends on your resources.

Nothing but copy cat dev's on WP.

Where are the WP exclusive? Dev's lets see it.

I love ❤ MSFT.

As someone who is considered a huge Microsoft ****** by everyone that knows him and also as a VB Developer for the past 15 yrs I can tell you, drop the fanboyism and look at the facts.

Yes, market share plays a part. Naturally iPhone and Android have more apps\games developers for one reason, would you sell a product to a room of 100 or a room of 10?

Another reason. Ad revenue is huge, I know especially on Android, not sure on iPhone. You can open an Android app and be flooded every second with bs ads. This is strictly forbidden in WP. So why would the kid in the basement jump to WP when he can't make the same amount of money from ads because, lets face it, if he released the same app without the flood of ads on WP and charged a buck for it, people are extremely cheap and unless its made of gold they wont buy it.

Another reason. WP is overly locked down to developers. You can argue this but coming from someone who has released 100+ applications for Windows and is now jumping through hoops to get around a steady stream of road blocks in code, its a pain in the @ss to write an app in a week (if its possible at all) that would normally take a day.

Your points about development languages are pretty off. I write in VB, can write in C# and C++. If you were to ask, C++would be the language I'd have to say is the best way to go for the exact reasons the poster a few posts above me stated.

Do I agree that Microsoft has done an excellent job helping devs and doing what they can to bring more devs, yes but, Microsoft needs to relax the strong arm grip on the OS a bit to get more devs onboard.

Just remember, just because iPhone and Android have a million fart apps and WP doesn't, doesn't mean they have more devs, just means we get better class developer. I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week.

 

[k0de]

As someone who is considered a huge Microsoft ****** by everyone that knows him and also as a VB Developer for the past 15 yrs I can tell you, drop the fanboyism and look at the facts.

Yes, market share plays a part. Naturally iPhone and Android have more apps\games developers for one reason, would you sell a product to a room of 100 or a room of 10?

Another reason. Ad revenue is huge, I know especially on Android, not sure on iPhone. You can open an Android app and be flooded every second with bs ads. This is strictly forbidden in WP. So why would the kid in the basement jump to WP when he can't make the same amount of money from ads because, lets face it, if he released the same app without the flood of ads on WP and charged a buck for it, people are extremely cheap and unless its made of gold they wont buy it.

Another reason. WP is overly locked down to developers. You can argue this but coming from someone who has released 100+ applications for Windows and is now jumping through hoops to get around a steady stream of road blocks in code, its a pain in the @ss to write an app in a week (if its possible at all) that would normally take a day.

Your points about development languages are pretty off. I write in VB, can write in C# and C++. If you were to ask, C++would be the language I'd have to say is the best way to go for the exact reasons the poster a few posts above me stated.

Do I agree that Microsoft has done an excellent job helping devs and doing what they can to bring more devs, yes but, Microsoft needs to relax the strong arm grip on the OS a bit to get more devs onboard.

Just remember, just because iPhone and Android have a million fart apps and WP doesn't, doesn't mean they have more devs, just means we get better class developer. I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week.

Hmmm. You code for money? Is that correct? So if money is not present you wont code?

Correct if I am wrong?

MSFT technology to me is the best thing that happened to men when it comes to computing.

I am not a Fan boy. I am a realist. Please explain to me what is wrong with MSFT programming that Apple and Android are superior

 

[k0de]

I'll never code for money. I code for fun. Money can't afford my code. I love ❤ code.

 

[k0de]

To me coding is an art. Not enough money in the world. To buy my God giving talent.

Not for sale.

Oops I never get a job in code.

 

[k0de]

This.,,,, WP devs just code....

 

[David P2]

Shame we can't use assembler. Nothing will ever beat pure assembler for speed.

 

[Jas00555]

How does charging money for code change anything? Lol. Does that make the makers of Infinity Blade less of a coder than the guy who made Flappy Bird?

 

[a5cent]

Shame we can't use assembler. Nothing will ever beat pure assembler for speed.

Bah, that's for wimps. I code everything in binary. ;-)

 

[a5cent]

How does charging money for code change anything? Lol. Does that make the makers of Infinity Blade less of a coder than the guy who made Flappy Bird?

No, but that isn't what he is trying to say. The point he is trying to make is one about passion. I think k0de perceives WP developers to be somewhat uncreative money grubbing capitalists. I think K0de wishes WP developers were more idealistic, in the sense that they would more often try to make awesome apps on WP for the love of the art and for the love of WP, instead of caring just about market share and profit potential.

I can sympathize with that view, but it's unrealistic, because creating great software is hard and takes a lot of time that most people with a life and a day job just don't have. People not professionally involved generally also lack the experience to make really good apps. The average quality of most apps, in all app stores, shows that quite clearly.

TBH, the professionals also often suck, but for other reasons, often related to time and budget pressures.

 

[CyclingGuyNola]

Hmmm. You code for money? Is that correct? So if money is not present you wont code?

Correct if I am wrong?

MSFT technology to me is the best thing that happened to men when it comes to computing.

I am not a Fan boy. I am a realist. Please explain to me what is wrong with MSFT programming that Apple and Android are superior

Wrong, all of my apps I have released are free apps. They do include a donate button but I have never benefited from those.

Every app I have written has been to help users except for one which I wrote to prove a point to Microsoft that a flaw in the Windows 7 Logon Screen could allow me to walk up to a PC, plug in my flash drive and copy every file I wanted on the system without being logged in.

I code because I enjoy it. I like to read peoples comments when I make something that helped them. I enjoy the stream of emails I receive with thanks. That is how I am paid. Sure, I plan to have at least one paid app on WP but, I never expect to get rich from it. Hell, I develop on a 4yr old FrankenDell laptop.

I'm also old enough to understand the (real) reasons why devs aren't flocking to WP in mass.

And yes, you're a fan boy. I'm a fan boy and I can pick fanboys out when I see them.

If people really want to enjoy WP, people need to quit complaining about what WP doesn't have and focus on what WP does have, a far superior phone experience that is slowly being molded into the defacto OS.

If you can code and aren't happy with an app, then create your own personal apps. I do it. Have several that are just for mine and my wife's phone.

Not criticizing you or anyone by no means and as I said, I do agree that in the end, devs will jump on board more and more. Just enjoy not having to search the app store through the great flood of crap apps, in time more quality devs will jump on board.

 

[CyclingGuyNola]

No, but that isn't what he is trying to say. The point he is trying to make is one about passion. I think k0de perceives WP developers to be somewhat uncreative money grubbing capitalists. I think K0de wishes WP developers were more idealistic, in the sense that they would more often try to make awesome apps on WP for the love of the art and for the love of WP, instead of caring just about market share and profit potential.

I can sympathize with that view, but it's unrealistic, because creating great software is hard and takes a lot of time that most people with a life and a day job just don't have. People not professionally involved generally also lack the experience to make really good apps. The average quality of most apps, in all app stores, shows that quite clearly.

TBH, the professionals also often suck, but for other reasons, often related to time and budget pressures.

Agree 100%

 

[k0de]

Wrong, all of my apps I have released are free apps. They do include a donate button but I have never benefited from those.

Every app I have written has been to help users except for one which I wrote to prove a point to Microsoft that a flaw in the Windows 7 Logon Screen could allow me to walk up to a PC, plug in my flash drive and copy every file I wanted on the system without being logged in.

I code because I enjoy it. I like to read peoples comments when I make something that helped them. I enjoy the stream of emails I receive with thanks. That is how I am paid. Sure, I plan to have at least one paid app on WP but, I never expect to get rich from it. Hell, I develop on a 4yr old FrankenDell laptop.

I'm also old enough to understand the (real) reasons why devs aren't flocking to WP in mass.

And yes, you're a fan boy. I'm a fan boy and I can pick fanboys out when I see them.

If people really want to enjoy WP, people need to quit complaining about what WP doesn't have and focus on what WP does have, a far superior phone experience that is slowly being molded into the defacto OS.

If you can code and aren't happy with an app, then create your own personal apps. I do it. Have several that are just for mine and my wife's phone.

Not criticizing you or anyone by no means and as I said, I do agree that in the end, devs will jump on board more and more. Just enjoy not having to search the app store through the great flood of crap apps, in time more quality devs will jump on board.

Well said DVELOPinc continue the good work for WP. Thanks for developing WP.

Seriously I salute you. WP needs more dev's with your attitude and motivation. Your speech is cool and inspiring, Thanks what say shows you love code.

Not all dev's lack heart on this platform. You are a good example.

I hope the rest WIll follow.

Thanks.

Lets code WP dev's.

 

[JamesPTao]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a member of MSDN about my peeve with Xbox music not being even close to having the functionality that Zune had and he had an interesting response. He said the reason for the lack of extra features was that windows idea for their apps was to have all the basic functions needed for the general populace but for those who want more or power users they were intentionally leaving it that way to spurn investment in third party apps to make it more profitable and appealing a platform for appwriters. He stated that was a big complaint for app writers in IOS is that they put too many features in apples own apps which discouraged people from investing money in 3rd party competitors for those types of apps. I thought that was a great concept and impressive windows was thinking this way and valuing their 3rd party app writers this way. Go windows!

 

[irvin792]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a member of MSDN about my peeve with Xbox music not being even close to having the functionality that Zune had and he had an interesting response. He said the reason for the lack of extra features was that windows idea for their apps was to have all the basic functions needed for the general populace but for those who want more or power users they were intentionally leaving it that way to spurn investment in third party apps to make it more profitable and appealing a platform for appwriters. He stated that was a big complaint for app writers in IOS is that they put too many features in apples own apps which discouraged people from investing money in 3rd party competitors for those types of apps. I thought that was a great concept and impressive windows was thinking this way and valuing their 3rd party app writers this way. Go windows!

That kind of thinking for the Xbox music app would be retarded imo. Maybe good in general, but really?

 

[latempete]

That would be great. Can someone recreate Zune? Call it Tune or Tunes or something. I'd pay $5 -$10 for it depending on how good it was. I bought CarDash pro just for the music "swipe" to change tracks feature. And that app keeps the screen on so I can see the artist and change tracks when driving. (my phone is in a holder and plugged into my aux on my stereo.)

I didn't have to go with pro, they have a music upgrade only option. But I use the app all the time so why not give them the money? I want more music features!