06-28-2014 06:11 AM
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  1. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    There's no doubt all the extra features, including the Action Center for notifications, and Cortana, improved the Windows Phone OS, with 8.1.

    IMO, though, since the update focused on getting the platform *away* from the hubs model that it was created around (see: all those 'Smoked by WP' commercials), and towards needing to launch an app for everything, the only thing that now separates Windows Phone from iOS or Android, is a preferance over one company's ecosystem and store of applications over another.

    Personally, I'm not a fan-boy of anyone one company's, and my contention is, if you now need an app for everything, I see no reason to not move full time to iOS, for example.

    Aside from Microsoft losing a customer, I don't see the point of WP any longer.

    Not trolling, or raising a dust-up, just trying to start a discussion about the move away from the hubs model, and the potential upsides/downsides, and what will be the chief selling point for the platform.
    a5cent, jasqid, ChuckOp and 8 others like this.
    06-12-2014 02:43 PM
  2. David P2's Avatar
    It could be because the apps-for-everything model is what newcomers to WP would be used to, given that's what they have on iOS/Android and MS feel they are more likely to get more converts if the new environment is less alien.
    06-12-2014 02:54 PM
  3. nicfromwales's Avatar
    Does it make much difference to a casual user, though? I'm not sure many will even notice the change. It didn't persuade many iOS or Android users to jump ship either. Plus now they can be updated more often and easily. On balance, I think I'm with Microsoft on this one.
    06-12-2014 03:05 PM
  4. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    It could be because the apps-for-everything model is what newcomers to WP would be used to, given that's what they have on iOS/Android and MS feel they are more likely to get more converts if the new environment is less alien.
    Possibly.
    I don't know the reasoning behind it, whatever it is, but my argument or premise, I think, still stands: if the hubs are going away, and you need to launch an 'app' for most functionality, like on iOS or Android, what's Windows Phone's differentiating factor?

    If the tiles are all that are left, and half the time most are static tiles, like glorified widgets, it's in trouble. IMO at least.
    06-12-2014 03:07 PM
  5. Citizen X's Avatar
    I don't know the reasoning behind it, whatever it is, but my argument or premise, I think, still stands: if the hubs are going away, and you need to launch an 'app' for most functionality, like on iOS or Android, what's Windows Phone's differentiating factor?
    I don't know. Enjoy your 6 inch iphone with pureview camera I guess.

    Windows Phone is a lot more than just "hubs." And to be honest with you there are a lot of things that will be commoditized between all phone OSes. Apple is learning that now. A couple of years from now a flagship Andriod phone's spec sheet will be indistinguishable from a Windows phone spec sheet. The question will be do you want to have live tiles and better build quality for a lower price or do you want Andriod. Do you want an ordered secure OS or do you want Andriod? Do you want an OS where everyone gets all or most updates or do you want Andriod fragmentation? Do you want a variety of devices or do you want the one or two phones Apple give you permission to have?

    Andriod and iOS have their pros and cons and so does Windows Phone. But to say hubs are the only redeeming feature of Windows Phone is a bit much.
    link68759 and Cleavitt76 like this.
    06-12-2014 03:16 PM
  6. Johnny Tremaine's Avatar
    I don't know. Enjoy your 6 inch iphone with pureview camera I guess.

    Windows Phone is a lot more than just "hubs."
    Andriod and iOS have their pros and cons and so does Windows Phone. But to say hubs are the only redeeming feature of Windows Phone is a bit much.
    Again, this is just a gentlemanly discussion about tech:
    my point was, once a decision is made to frame WP around 'there's an app for that', doesn't that automatically lead to, those with the most [apps in this case], wins? Hence iOS.

    I'm open to other arguments about why I'm wrong.
    06-12-2014 03:22 PM
  7. phlamethrowre's Avatar
    What "HUBS" are you talking about?
    06-12-2014 03:29 PM
  8. anon(8921886)'s Avatar
    I miss the old Music+Video hub. One of the main reasons I have chosen to WP is hubs. I also think the old photo hub was better.

    I won't change to Android, because it is even worse and ios the same.

    I don't think ' the one with the most apps' wins, because you need quality. A lot of Android apps are drop ins for system apps like keyboards and home launches.
    06-12-2014 03:34 PM
  9. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Not really. My Windows phone use hasn't really changed. The integration is different now and more similar to Windows 8.1 style. Personally I prefer 8.1 for WP UI overall
    Editguy1900 and meddyrainzo like this.
    06-12-2014 03:37 PM
  10. twint7787's Avatar
    There's no doubt all the extra features, including the Action Center for notifications, and Cortana, improved the Windows Phone OS, with 8.1.

    IMO, though, since the update focused on getting the platform *away* from the hubs model that it was created around (see: all those 'Smoked by WP' commercials), and towards needing to launch an app for everything, the only thing that now separates Windows Phone from iOS or Android, is a preferance over one company's ecosystem and store of applications over another.

    Personally, I'm not a fan-boy of anyone one company's, and my contention is, if you now need an app for everything, I see no reason to not move full time to iOS, for example.

    Aside from Microsoft losing a customer, I don't see the point of WP any longer.

    Not trolling, or raising a dust-up, just trying to start a discussion about the move away from the hubs model, and the potential upsides/downsides, and what will be the chief selling point for the platform.
    I wouldn't say the apps are what differentiates the platforms. What about UI and design?
    El Bori likes this.
    06-12-2014 03:37 PM
  11. pgg101's Avatar
    Not everyone wants to drive a Ford. Some like GM while others like Dodge. Some people get bored, and other people's needs change.

    Posted via the WPC App for Android! on BlackBerry Z30
    ven07 likes this.
    06-12-2014 03:39 PM
  12. Chesmez's Avatar
    There's no doubt all the extra features, including the Action Center for notifications, and Cortana, improved the Windows Phone OS, with 8.1.

    IMO, though, since the update focused on getting the platform *away* from the hubs model that it was created around (see: all those 'Smoked by WP' commercials), and towards needing to launch an app for everything, the only thing that now separates Windows Phone from iOS or Android, is a preferance over one company's ecosystem and store of applications over another.

    Personally, I'm not a fan-boy of anyone one company's, and my contention is, if you now need an app for everything, I see no reason to not move full time to iOS, for example.

    Aside from Microsoft losing a customer, I don't see the point of WP any longer.

    Not trolling, or raising a dust-up, just trying to start a discussion about the move away from the hubs model, and the potential upsides/downsides, and what will be the chief selling point for the platform.
    I am definitely with you. The hubs was one thing. 8.1 changed alot of things. WP has always been praised because of how smooth it was and didnt require top of the line specs to compete. But now every app takes 5 secs to open up on my 920. There is a small lag when moving from the homescreen to the app list. There is more but the issues are small (BATTERY LIFE!). But if you add all those "small" issues up it begins to look pretty bad. So my advice would be to MS: If more functionality means delay, lag or worse battery life, then remove it. Im not moving away from WP but dont expect me to stay much longer if those issues dont get adressed.
    jasqid and ChuckOp like this.
    06-12-2014 03:48 PM
  13. Trevor Wolfe's Avatar
    They haven't even released phone specific firmware for 8.1 which will improve those things......
    06-12-2014 03:51 PM
  14. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I guess it depends on each user's preference. I never used the 'hubs' and didn't even have the 'people' tile displayed on my home screen. I also never used the Xbox apps (not music, games or videos), since I prefer streaming (Pandora, Songza, Nokia Mix Radio+, Netflix) rather than purchasing music/videos and I subscribe to Nokia Mix Radio+, not Xbox music. So, in my case, I don't miss anything, since those were features I never used.
    Editguy1900, tgp, cbreze and 5 others like this.
    06-12-2014 03:55 PM
  15. waazzupppp's Avatar
    I have to agree with the loss of the "HUBs" concept. They were fast, simple and well thought out. When looking at the 8.1 preview, all I saw was changes to make it more Android-ish. In fact, I have been test driving an HTC One for the past few weeks and honestly say that WP8.1 behaves almost identically to Android now. Here are my top five missing features from the bump to 8.1.

    1) Me Tile - Yes apps like Multi-share make up for a bit of the functionality, but missing the ability to change over my profile photos and share to multiple networks just bites...

    2) The notification center - Live tiles were more than enough for me - in fact, I didn't like having the little bar full of icons on my Android device - and now they are back...

    3) Messaging - So much for being able to Facebook chat from my phone any longer - and forget MSN chat too... Now messaging is just texting...

    4) File Manager - yes, this lackluster 'file manager' is now out in public, but what does it really allow you to do? Not much... It's pretty much the 6 folders you could access when you plug your device into a computer. I still can't hook a USB drive to the device (which I can in Android) and except for the downloads folder, there isn't much point in having it.

    5) Microsoft Apps - This really hurts, but the Microsoft Apps for Android are amazing. OneDrive behaves better on my HTC than it does on the Lumia 925. Outlook works just as well as the core WP functions and OneNote seems even better on the One than the 925. Scary but true, it seems like Microsoft is doing more to help the competition than themselves.

    Now, all this said, WP is still a spectacular OS, they just seem to have forgotten WHY they are making it. They are falling in line behind the others hoping that 'similar' sells better than 'different' at this point. The problem is, unless Samsung or Apple stumbles, it's going to take different to break the market. Look at what BlackBerry did back in the day to crack Windows Mobile's market - or what Apple did to break Symbian's... They were different. Windows Phone stopped looking at what's next in favor of what's now. I think MS will get back on track soon, but I have to agree with the 8.1 update being a bit backwards as far as functionality goes.
    06-12-2014 04:26 PM
  16. twint7787's Avatar
    I have to agree with this person ^. Its like MS thinks people are staying away from windows phone because its so scary and different. No. They have stayed away because they have no reason to switch. We don't have the apps so why would you come over unless you are attracted to the design and UI. The status bar being permanent really bugs me. They should have implemented some type of system where you could drop it down but it would still disappear. There are sometimes when I am in an app that doesn't allow the status bar to pop up and that was dumb, but this option stinks too.
    Anyway I know it will allow them to update the OS faster but in reality they changed some things that made the OS unique and now it might as well be the best skin available for Android (someone asked me this once).
    06-12-2014 05:28 PM
  17. ChuckOp's Avatar
    IMO, though, since the update focused on getting the platform *away* from the hubs model that it was created around (see: all those 'Smoked by WP' commercials), and towards needing to launch an app for everything, the only thing that now separates Windows Phone from iOS or Android, is a preferance over one company's ecosystem and store of applications over another.
    Exactly. At the same time though, that might be the point - put the focus on the company's ecosystem and services.

    I don't think WP8.1 "kills" WP, but many of the things I personally liked about Windows Phone are now muddled with WP8.1. It no longer has clean UI design, it no longer integrates Twitter and Facebook postings, and it's much slower.
    06-12-2014 05:47 PM
  18. JamesPTao's Avatar
    It is just as clean as wp8, if you want it to be. The transparent tiles can be turned off. You can use only two medium tiles wide instead of three if you want. That's nonsense. If you want it to it can look identical to wp8. Now the action center is different, ill give you that. Facebook, twitter integration is not gone. It can be done now without the constant need for windows to update it to keep it working. They just haven't updated their apps for wp8.1 yet...which will come. Patience..
    06-12-2014 06:08 PM
  19. MSFTisMIA's Avatar
    I think MSFT is doing a hard thing: laying the groundwork for better device integration later. Problem is, they may not add enough people willing to stick it out or switch.

    I've used my fare share of OSes and apps. For example:

    RIM: 250 apps
    iOS: 350 apps
    Android: 400 apps
    WP: 650 apps

    Now these are total apps tied to my log ins. Some free, many paid. Most not cross platform, especially at the same quality level. So if you have someone who has really invested in iOS or Android, why are they switching? What's the highest incentive?

    I don't mind being less app dependent if the OS itself does certain features well enough. My fear is 8.1 may be getting away from that. MSFT can kill the hubs if it means updating certain parts of the OS faster and more feature rich, I'm fine with that. If they kill the hubs and still update things at the slow *** pace as usual, then the OP is correct.
    06-12-2014 07:08 PM
  20. twint7787's Avatar
    It is just as clean as wp8, if you want it to be. The transparent tiles can be turned off. You can use only two medium tiles wide instead of three if you want. That's nonsense. If you want it to it can look identical to wp8. Now the action center is different, ill give you that. Facebook, twitter integration is not gone. It can be done now without the constant need for windows to update it to keep it working. They just haven't updated their apps for wp8.1 yet...which will come. Patience..
    I feel like a prerequisite for owning a windows phone is to have patience.
    06-12-2014 07:09 PM
  21. stephen_az's Avatar
    There's no doubt all the extra features, including the Action Center for notifications, and Cortana, improved the Windows Phone OS, with 8.1.

    IMO, though, since the update focused on getting the platform *away* from the hubs model that it was created around (see: all those 'Smoked by WP' commercials), and towards needing to launch an app for everything, the only thing that now separates Windows Phone from iOS or Android, is a preferance over one company's ecosystem and store of applications over another.

    Personally, I'm not a fan-boy of anyone one company's, and my contention is, if you now need an app for everything, I see no reason to not move full time to iOS, for example.

    Aside from Microsoft losing a customer, I don't see the point of WP any longer.

    Not trolling, or raising a dust-up, just trying to start a discussion about the move away from the hubs model, and the potential upsides/downsides, and what will be the chief selling point for the platform.
    I have no concern at all with your position - everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do wish, however, people would think before they frame arguments that are logically challenged. If they killed it then the changes did not improve it. That represents an inherent and irreconcilable contradiction.
    06-13-2014 03:07 AM
  22. Ericcai's Avatar
    WP is very good, but the app is so little
    06-13-2014 03:18 AM
  23. Chregu's Avatar
    I have no concern at all with your position - everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do wish, however, people would think before they frame arguments that are logically challenged. If they killed it then the changes did not improve it. That represents an inherent and irreconcilable contradiction.
    I disagree. Something can be improved in some regards and still deteriorate in other areas leading to a worse product overall. Also you don't consider emotion, it's not predictable, it's irrational.

    Personally I don't see the missing hubs as such a big deal and I think Windows Phone 8.1 is a huge improvement over previous versions. Windows Phone's problems run much deeper.
    06-13-2014 03:38 AM
  24. X0LARIUM's Avatar
    Why just hubs? I have a whole bunch of things missing form the core WP I once loved.

    Action Centre - They could have honestly done better. Right now, it's EXACTLY what Android and iOS have. Why copy 'em? Android was anyways copying iOS, now they didn't have any reason to copy it further.

    Missing Hubs: Pretty much what you said, but let me add:

    a. The (broken) Me Tile: Was perfect to share anything. Now I HAVE to get a Facebook app to update something. I don't want that.

    b. The Music Hub: Perhaps the worst affected of all the Hubs. Broken everything I loved about this one. Is as slow as my Android Music player, the background artist has gone back to doing its thing, no artist on the tile oR lockscreen. Superwarped in short.

    c. The Game tile is nothing special any more either, as all the games are now available outside, in the app list.

    The horrible horrible Background Tiles. It becomes even worse when people put selfies in the background.

    They have not only moved away from the core design philosophy of Windows Phone, but voluntarily left it behind.

    But, there is hardly anything we can do.
    osoalex and tapehead like this.
    06-13-2014 03:55 AM
  25. Ebuka Allison's Avatar
    Why just hubs? I have a whole bunch of things missing form the core WP I once loved.

    Action Centre - They could have honestly done better. Right now, it's EXACTLY what Android and iOS have. Why copy 'em? Android was anyways copying iOS, now they didn't have any reason to copy it further.

    Missing Hubs: Pretty much what you said, but let me add:

    a. The (broken) Me Tile: Was perfect to share anything. Now I HAVE to get a Facebook app to update something. I don't want that.

    b. The Music Hub: Perhaps the worst affected of all the Hubs. Broken everything I loved about this one. Is as slow as my Android Music player, the background artist has gone back to doing its thing, no artist on the tile oR lockscreen. Superwarped in short.

    c. The Game tile is nothing special any more either, as all the games are now available outside, in the app list.

    The horrible horrible Background Tiles. It becomes even worse when people put selfies in the background.

    They have not only moved away from the core design philosophy of Windows Phone, but voluntarily left it behind.

    But, there is hardly anything we can do.
    Are you seriously pissed off that people who are not you have the ability to put backgrounds on their tiles? Is that even a complaint. Omg Microsoft put a feature I'm ot going to use and I cant stand how others are using it?! How is this even a thing? Are you 5 by any chance?
    LennH, M L, Loco5150 and 5 others like this.
    06-13-2014 05:47 AM
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