08-16-2014 12:46 PM
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  1. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    It is threads like these that makes me take my meds.
    a5cent, flapadlr and HeyCori like this.
    07-23-2014 10:24 AM
  2. sra1reddys's Avatar
    I feel same
    07-23-2014 10:29 AM
  3. theefman's Avatar
    Maybe 'recommendation' would have been the better word than 'requirement', but if I had anything to say about it, I would have made a hard reset a mandatory part of the process. That might also have discouraged some who really should not have been involved in the first place.

    90% of the complaints here on WPC due to issues with the developer preview could have been avoided, had that recommendation been followed. A lot if people suffered through battery issues, which could also have been avoided.

    That recommendation came not from MS, but from the WPC community, after having gained some experience. There are tons of threads around where you'll find that suggestion.
    If you have to hard reset everytime an OS update comes out, doesnt that point to an inefficient/unoptimized OS? And tbh its the crappy state of the backup feature in WP that makes people think twice about hard resetting, even with 8.1 you're bound to lose some app data and that is always a pain to deal with. And also for the record, my 1020 has been running since I got it in October without a hard reset and I struggle to think of a problem I've had with the DP or any updates before it. So I'm not sure this piece of advice applies to everyone and every situation.
    07-23-2014 11:17 AM
  4. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Nothing runs as smooth as a clean install. I don't see how that can be argued against...

    Know what you're doing, know how to backup/restore, know that some data gets sacrificed. Knuckle down, sack up, whatever. Nike that s&*t and just do it.
    JasonKruys and a5cent like this.
    07-23-2014 12:50 PM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    If you have to hard reset everytime an OS update comes out, doesnt that point to an inefficient/unoptimized OS?
    Not at all. At least you'd have to explain where you see the relationship between runtime efficiency and the requirement to be installed from a clean slate. I don't see any. Typically, software that must take into account a million different possible legacy configurations is a lot less efficient than a piece of software that mustn't.

    And tbh its the crappy state of the backup feature in WP that makes people think twice about hard resetting, even with 8.1 you're bound to lose some app data and that is always a pain to deal with.
    I'm not going to argue with that. IMHO MS should make backup functionality a mandatory part of the app validation process.

    And also for the record, my 1020 has been running since I got it in October without a hard reset and I struggle to think of a problem I've had with the DP or any updates before it. So I'm not sure this piece of advice applies to everyone and every situation.
    Also true, but just because it doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it doesn't apply to anyone else. Some people got through fine, but there were hundreds on these boards who didn't, 90% of whom were well served by being told to finally do that hard reset.

    A hard reset should have been a mandatory part of the installation process. To set expectations straight from the outset, to discourage those that shouldn't be participating in the first place, to exclude a whole host of issues that people experienced because they tried to skip that step, and to prevent the million cries of people with problems and the million responses along the lines of "it's beta software" (which it technically wasn't). The developer preview program would have a better rep today if that is how it would have been executed.

    Also for the record, note that I'm not saying this is necessary for every little update. It wasn't necessary for any of the previous developer previews, and it likely won't be necessary for the next few, but it was for 8.1, and I wouldn't be surprised if WP9.0 is another candidate for the hard-reset approach. It depends on each update and what exactly is being changed.
    Last edited by a5cent; 07-23-2014 at 02:07 PM. Reason: spelling
    JasonKruys likes this.
    07-23-2014 01:39 PM
  6. jfern1960's Avatar
    Its not an issue of only Bitlocker users being affected. Its the fact that MS has blocked the update to all Dev Preview users even if you don't have Bitlocker.
    07-23-2014 01:51 PM
  7. RTGent's Avatar
    07-23-2014 02:59 PM
  8. d3ad connection's Avatar
    If you have precious saved app data or game scores or anything you can't afford to lose, don't install pre-release software. It's that simple. Just wait until the actual updates come out. I don't play games on my phone and all of my music/etc is stored on the SD card so hard resets really don't affect me at all. I don't even use the backup feature because I love a fresh start, every time. I don't even use the upgrade function for new Windows versions on my PCs... the upgraded OS will never be as clean and efficient as a fresh install.
    David P2 and JasonKruys like this.
    07-23-2014 03:03 PM
  9. Geddeeee's Avatar
    If you have precious saved app data or game scores or anything you can't afford to lose, don't install pre-release software. It's that simple. Just wait until the actual updates come out. I don't play games on my phone and all of my music/etc is stored on the SD card so hard resets really don't affect me at all. I don't even use the backup feature because I love a fresh start, every time. I don't even use the upgrade function for new Windows versions on my PCs... the upgraded OS will never be as clean and efficient as a fresh install.
    This sort of thinking comes with experience.

    Most users do not realise that software installs of any kind need a planned approach. Arranging to put non critical data on the SD card (i.e. Music, Videos, Pictures etc) is a good way to make sure any problems with updates or fresh installs are kept to a minimum.
    Obviously I'm not saying that screw ups can be avoided all the time, but minimising the risk is a mature way to approach it.

    I feel a lot of problems are caused by the user's inexperience, even though a lot of 'em say, "I've been doing this for years!!!"
    Of course, then it is the fault of WP or MS... Never the user.

    Already there are complaints about Cyan... Battery life, phantom taps etc.... Funny how the majority of users of users have not experienced this, and is difficult to reproduce. If these 'bugs' could be repeated time after time, I agree there may be a need for 'fixes'.

    Often, I have found that the majority of problems are caused by the idiots in front of the keyboard or touch screen!!

    I say, if you want to stay with the DP, be my guest. Hopefully Cyan never makes it's way to you and you are stuck with a 'half' a phone..... May you both be happy!!!!
    07-23-2014 04:36 PM
  10. Jazmac's Avatar
    I do get some of what you are saying. The bug doesn't affect me. But it is a great bit more technical to downgrade than it was to sign up for DP and download an app.

    I'm not protesting on grounds that I don't have the technical skill to do so, as I have done it before. I am protesting on the grounds that it is a big technical leap from signing up for the DP for people that can't or would be intimidated to downgrade.
    Pardon me fearless leader. This is about someone else and not you?
    07-23-2014 05:11 PM
  11. d3ad connection's Avatar
    I feel a lot of problems are caused by the user's inexperience, even though a lot of 'em say, "I've been doing this for years!!!"
    Of course, then it is the fault of WP or MS... Never the user.
    Already there are complaints about Cyan... Battery life, phantom taps etc.... Funny how the majority of users of users have not experienced this, and is difficult to reproduce. If these 'bugs' could be repeated time after time, I agree there may be a need for 'fixes'.
    Often, I have found that the majority of problems are caused by the idiots in front of the keyboard or touch screen!!
    I completely understand, I work in IT and that really is 90% of what causes problems. The people who know the least always complain/whine the loudest too, I've noticed. (That applies to forums and comments as well.)
    I say, if you want to stay with the DP, be my guest. Hopefully Cyan never makes it's way to you and you are stuck with a 'half' a phone..... May you both be happy!!!!
    The funny thing is I use a Lumia 810, still on Lumia Amber firmware and probably never going past that. Yet, I haven't had any issues with 8.1 and honestly I'm happy Microsoft is still letting me stay up to date through the Dev Preview.
    07-23-2014 05:45 PM
  12. Geddeeee's Avatar
    I completely understand, I work in IT and that really is 90% of what causes problems. The people who know the least always complain/whine the loudest too, I've noticed. (That applies to forums and comments as well.)

    The funny thing is I use a Lumia 810, still on Lumia Amber firmware and probably never going past that. Yet, I haven't had any issues with 8.1 and honestly I'm happy Microsoft is still letting me stay up to date through the Dev Preview.
    Great attitude. If Amber is working for you, why upgrade?
    Again, 'real' experience through hours of trial and error, can't be beat. It makes you learn quickly and that experience is invaluable.

    The constant need to upgrade to the 'latest' software or hardware is a bit of an addiction nowadays.
    Granted, it may solve issues in a lot of cases, but the users who already have problems, usually of their own making, think an upgrade may sort the problems out. More often than not, it leads to more problems, and a lot of tantrums!!!

    For the sake of a couple of hours work to downgrade to WP8 and then OTA and reinstall the apps is a small price to pay I believe.
    Cyan is really good. A lot better than I thought it would be. My 1520 is running as it should be. Even better than when I was using WP8, which despite what people have said, wasn't without it's problems.

    Let's be clear... MS are NOT s**t, nor is WP. If that were the case, it would have disappeared without trace years ago.

    The users who constantly moan because of their own incompetence, or refusal to adhere to what the makers of the software advise, need a right good slap!!!!
    RumoredNow likes this.
    07-23-2014 11:04 PM
  13. d3ad connection's Avatar
    If Amber is working for you, why upgrade?
    Believe me, I would update if I was able to, but the Lumia 810 has been discontinued and barred from anything past Lumia Amber. My point is that it works just fine still, and without the Dev Preview, I wouldn't be able to enjoy 8.1 at all! (Until either the 1525 comes out or I shell out $500+ for a 1520.3...)

    I do agree with the rest of your post though. People in general are stubborn and not willing to research to find out if it would cause problems.
    07-23-2014 11:16 PM
  14. David P2's Avatar
    Believe me, I would update if I was able to, but the Lumia 810 has been discontinued and barred from anything past Lumia Amber. My point is that it works just fine still, and without the Dev Preview, I wouldn't be able to enjoy 8.1 at all! (Until either the 1525 comes out or I shell out $500+ for a 1520.3...)

    I do agree with the rest of your post though. People in general are stubborn and not willing to research to find out if it would cause problems.
    I think the actual issue was some part of the Black firmware interacting in a bad way with the 810, which is why it never arrived - so there's the possibility Cyan would work fine, and if it didn't it would go against MS's vision that all WP8.0 devices can get WP8.1. My 620 is classed as discontinued as well.
    07-24-2014 04:11 AM
  15. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I think the actual issue was some part of the Black firmware interacting in a bad way with the 810, which is why it never arrived - so there's the possibility Cyan would work fine, and if it didn't it would go against MS's vision that all WP8.0 devices can get WP8.1. My 620 is classed as discontinued as well.
    And so also, my 925 is classed "discontinued," yet I'll get the Cyan update same as your 620.

    The 810 was a T-Mo exclusive and they discontinued it before Amber, if I remember correctly. As it will get no carrierware, there is no point passing a Cyan update on from the Nokia level. 810 is marked as "Not Available" for Cyan:

    see.png

    * Source: Availability in North America - Nokia
    07-24-2014 02:56 PM
  16. HeyCori's Avatar
    I will wait for Microsoft to fix the issue. There's simply not enough differences between DP8.1/Official 8.1 and Black/Cyan to warrant wiping my device. I would begrudgingly wipe my device if we were talking about dramatic changes that significantly impacted use. Honestly, I could be running the official 8.1 and Cyan right now and wouldn't even notice.
    a5cent and rockstarzzz like this.
    07-24-2014 03:11 PM
  17. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    I will wait for Microsoft to fix the issue. There's simply not enough differences between DP8.1/Official 8.1 and Black/Cyan to warrant wiping my device.
    I wouldn't be so sure about the "no difference". I have a 1320. On WP8.1 without Cyan, it lasted max 36h. With WP8 and Black, its 50h+

    Correct firmware goes a long long way!
    RumoredNow and HeyCori like this.
    07-24-2014 09:39 PM
  18. RumoredNow's Avatar
    I wouldn't be so sure about the "no difference". I have a 1320. On WP8.1 without Cyan, it lasted max 36h. With WP8 and Black, its 50h+

    Correct firmware goes a long long way!
    Can you say, Optimized. :D
    07-24-2014 11:28 PM
  19. KSilcox's Avatar
    I wouldn't be so sure about the "no difference". I have a 1320. On WP8.1 without Cyan, it lasted max 36h. With WP8 and Black, its 50h+

    Correct firmware goes a long long way!
    also, the 'click instead of swipe' problem with my 1520 seems quite a bit better with Cyan. That was driving me crazy. :)
    the downgrade wasn't very hard, just a little time consuming. It was certainly worth my time though.
    07-24-2014 11:39 PM
  20. MrWhiteman's Avatar
    All you have to do is backup, flash, update, restore. Simple as that. You know that with 8.1 your app settings and start screen gets backup up as well right? (well most apps).
    07-25-2014 03:04 AM
  21. JasonKruys's Avatar
    All you have to do is backup, flash, update, restore. Simple as that. You know that with 8.1 your app settings and start screen gets backup up as well right? (well most apps).

    Have you actually done it, or just talking in theory?


    No, not most, SOME app settings get restored! Many still do not backup settings, probably 15% of mine did. Even Big name apps such as ebay, amazon for example, you have to input username/password/settings. If you have lots of apps (as you might do if you leverage the full potential of a smart phone), there is an awful lot to do. Start screen gets restored. Some contacts don't get linked. Apps get reinstalled.

    I did mine a couple of days ago, and to backup, reset to 8, update, restore, and then get everything working again as it was, took 6-7 hours. Some people just don't have that time.

    I will say, however, it was worth it. We all know a refresh/reinstall on a PC improves things. It did on my 1520 - battery life has increased by 5-10%, things seem faster, and the phone heats up far less whilst doing the same things. No doubt Cyan helped, but it can't account for ALL of the improvements.

    There are people that dispute this fact, and claim that if a reset does improve things, it means the OS is rubbish. Not true. Think of all those apps you have installed, some written by inexperienced developers, updated a few times - is it really that impossible to imagine they might introduce small issues fixed by a reset and download of new version also?

    If you can get and want cyan now, and see the benefit of a refresh, then downgrade now. If the answer is no to any of that, don't downgrade and wait for the fix (however long that takes) and quit whining! 😁
    07-25-2014 03:20 AM
  22. HeyCori's Avatar
    I agree, it can take a while to restore your phone. I just got my 1520 earlier this week. Restoring everything took several hours since a lot of settings don't get backed up. Then there was also the issue of reinstalling all the apps and transferring 11 gigs of music and another 2 gigs of photos. At least now all my photos/music is on the SD card for easy restoration. Still, I'm in no rush to get Cyan. There's just not enough difference even for a few hours of work.

    I wouldn't be so sure about the "no difference". I have a 1320. On WP8.1 without Cyan, it lasted max 36h. With WP8 and Black, its 50h+

    Correct firmware goes a long long way!
    The battery life on my 920 was definitely worse on DP8.1. However, my 1520 is on DP8.1 and the battery has been freaking amazing!
    flapadlr likes this.
    07-25-2014 03:45 PM
  23. flapadlr's Avatar
    OP here. I decided that I am not of great conviction when it comes to having the latest and most stable version of my phone.

    I downloaded Nokia Software Recovery Tool and backloaded to 8.0.

    I don't have access to WiFi here at work (due to the Cisco Wifi router bug) so when I get home I will download 8.1 PROD.

    The NSRT was easy to use, it only gave me one option of firmware to download and install. Although it did say it was downloading the same version that was in the phone.

    It did take many retries to add passwords for my accounts (that were recovered from backup.) I think the bandwidth in and out of my phone was being used by app downloads so it gave me connection errors on most accounts, including intermittents on my Microsoft account.

    Luckily it's a corporate provided phone so I don't pay for bandwidth and it's big pool of it. I don't understand why my apps had to download when they are all on my SD card.

    My justification to myself for going through with this is that I take a lot of photos and I look forward to the improvements there. I miss the Notification spot already and the snappy interface and the seperate app for Podcasts. I miss my 4th column on the Start screen.

    I don't look forward to organizing my Start screen again and setting up my emails again, but that is the path I have chosen.

    Thanks everyone for the discussion.
    07-25-2014 04:05 PM
  24. Harris Hussain's Avatar
    I rolled back to wp8 from wp8.1 do last week thinking that now that the prod version is released, it won't be long before I get it on my phone ..... Been a week now ....still waiting .... Its excruciating but I will not upgrade to the preview again because I feel I should go back to getting used to wp8 so that I can truly appreciate the enhancements on wp8.1 prod
    flapadlr likes this.
    07-25-2014 04:19 PM
  25. David P2's Avatar
    OP here. I decided that I am not of great conviction when it comes to having the latest and most stable version of my phone.

    I downloaded Nokia Software Recovery Tool and backloaded to 8.0.

    I don't have access to WiFi here at work (due to the Cisco Wifi router bug) so when I get home I will download 8.1 PROD.

    The NSRT was easy to use, it only gave me one option of firmware to download and install. Although it did say it was downloading the same version that was in the phone.

    It did take many retries to add passwords for my accounts (that were recovered from backup.) I think the bandwidth in and out of my phone was being used by app downloads so it gave me connection errors on most accounts, including intermittents on my Microsoft account.

    Luckily it's a corporate provided phone so I don't pay for bandwidth and it's big pool of it. I don't understand why my apps had to download when they are all on my SD card.

    My justification to myself for going through with this is that I take a lot of photos and I look forward to the improvements there. I miss the Notification spot already and the snappy interface and the seperate app for Podcasts. I miss my 4th column on the Start screen.

    I don't look forward to organizing my Start screen again and setting up my emails again, but that is the path I have chosen.

    Thanks everyone for the discussion.
    It's more a recovery tool than anything else. It's primary function is to restore the connected phone to a clean state, using "the most recent commercial version" that the app is currently looking for, which is 8.0 GDR3 + Black, until it's updated again where it will restore Cyan instead.

    As for your apps, I have a rough idea of why you can't carry them over after a reset - when you set the phone up initially, it's given a unique identifier Any apps installed to the SD card are linked to that identifier. A hard reset or restore by recovery tool will result in a new identifier being generated during setup. The main reason behind it I believe is to stop people from purchasing expensive apps/games and lending the SD card to their friends so they can get said app/game for free.

    Windows user accounts operate in the same manner - every account created has a unique identifier. Deleting that account but giving it the same username won't make any difference as it will still get a different identifier and the old files will be inaccessible until a user with administrative privileges runs the "take ownership" procedure.
    07-25-2014 05:08 PM
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