03-15-2013 01:07 PM
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  1. DaveGx's Avatar
    First off, the iPhone will be extremely popular for a long time to come and nothing will change that. It all ready has a huge following and user base.

    Apple really does it in a very smart way. While some of you claim having the option of choice of a range of options, the fact is, having just one main option has paid off for Apple. They can put all effort into one phone. Simple as that.

    And they're development and marketing is brilliant. Look at all their different commercials where each one showcases a special feature. The recent Do not disturb and lowering background noise while on a call for example. How many features does WP8 or Nokia have that they could do the same type of marketing? Is there anything we have that others don't?

    I've never owned an iPhone and don't want to go that route, but MS and Nokia have a long way to go. I know WP8 is new but its still a disappointment compared to what we see the competition like the iPhone has. ****, simple basic features were left out of WP8 which doesn't help things. I really wish MS would broaden their WP division and get more people working on fixing and improving the OS at a faster rate. They can't afford to hit the reset button again.

    Then there are the apps, which we don't need to get into. We know the sad truth of that already.
    01-25-2013 12:12 PM
  2. Great deal's Avatar
    Nokia released their last quarter results yesterday and show they are back in profit. They have some pretty great tech development in the pipeline and the way they have restructured gives them extra flexibility. Nokia is here to stay and rightly so, they know how to play the long game and the fight between them all is only a good thing. The only people I have no sympathy for are RIM - how can the previous owners be so damn pig headed and arrogant with the lack of R&D - to release devices 2 years behind the competition and an OS so tiresome, bulky and inefficient, those guys do not deserve a single dime/penny/euro/cent etc from anyone!

    Anyway..long live the Lumia!
    snowmutt likes this.
    01-25-2013 12:13 PM
  3. thecaringkind's Avatar
    Not surprised at all. Apple has an almost other worldly brain lock in so many people its not funny...in any event Nokia & Microsoft MUST keep innovating & GET THE APPS UP TO SPEED. As long as they do that WP will be fine.
    01-25-2013 12:14 PM
  4. antsin3d's Avatar
    Apple DID essentially invent the modern smartphone ...They were the ones to first 'crack' the perfect unity of phone, music player and internet device, the first to present it in a way that even the biggest technophobe could use, and the first to use what are now smartphone necessities....
    Exactly, thanks for clarifying for me. The adjective 'modern' was in there intentionally to differentiate. I used a Palm and a Windows Mobile before iPhone existed, but they weren't what we think of as smartphones today. Market gains tend to be incremental unless it's a whole new market. Android grew slowly at first. iOS grew pretty fast because it essentially created a new market for itself. WP8 is entering that market, and can't be expected to jump from 1% share to 30% share so quickly. As for Nokia, I was largely referring to the U.S. there, so I wasn't being clear.
    allos autos likes this.
    01-25-2013 12:19 PM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Back around 2006-2009, the main way to buy a Nokia smartphone was directly from Nokia. The phones were sold unlocked at full retail. That doesn't really fit the way most people in US buy their phones, since most people in US buy a phone from a carrier with a contract.

    As a result, Nokia really was a niche brand in US. When I had a Nokia device in 2007-2009, I didn't know anyone else who had one, and most of my family/friends had no idea what Nokia was. The only people who were familiar with Nokia were the parents of one friend; they knew about Nokia, since they travel to Europe regularly.
    01-25-2013 12:26 PM
  6. JonesCK1's Avatar
    I don't know how anyone could've expected any different. I think what everyone expected is that the Nokia Lumia 920 would do great because of it's exceptional camera and other hardware advantages, and it has done very well. To compare the entire iPhone line to Nokia is stupid, how about comparing iPhone 5 32GB sales to Nokia Lumia 920 sales, I'd be curious to see those numbers on AT&T alone too.
    Mach_E likes this.
    01-25-2013 12:27 PM
  7. DynaDog's Avatar
    Here's a quote from the WSJ this morning, from a man who operates 600 Verizon stores:

    He said that the Nokia Lumia 822, which runs Microsoft's smartphone operating system, garnered 17% of sales at his stores the weekend after Christmas, thanks in part to a price cut.

    I was surprised at that percentage, it's over what I would expect. It indicates to me that WP8 is gaining a foothold and that things like price are still going to matter. There are tons of Apple people who will never change, which is fine. But there are a ton of people without a smartphone who will come into the market and see that, for instance, the 920 has more native capability than the iPhone at half the price. And that will make a difference to them. The relatively slow uptake of the iPhone 5 may be showing that the Apple RDF is losing some effectiveness. When I see an iPhone, the interface is leaden and boring. Probably strikes a lot of other people that way, too. Apple is not going away, but there's room for Nokia and Microsoft to grab a big chunk of the market.
    01-25-2013 12:32 PM
  8. uselessrobot's Avatar
    Apple is about as entrenched a brand as you can possibly get. They've managed to maintain their position as a desirable brand thanks to industrial design that, while stale, still feels good. Many consumers default to the iPhone without even thinking. And there's a good reason for this. For the uninformed Apple devices just work. They don't do anything special over the competition, but everyone is familiar with the platform. Because of widespread adoption iPhones and iPads are highly supported. You know it's going to work with your car and a multitude of other peripherals specifically because all these companies invested the effort in ensuring compatibility.

    So any decline Apple may experience is going to be gradual. And what will likely happen, like happened to Microsoft in the desktop space, is that no one will have any clear dominance. Apple had the advantage of being a first mover with a genuinely good phone in a young and evolving market space. Now that things have matured somewhat that advantage has evaporated.

    The problem is that far too many people had unrealistic expectations, and there seems to be this persistent mindset that there can only be one dominant player. This despite the fact that in most industries that is not the case. So people are already billing Samsung as the next champion. Somehow, if you aren't selling on their level you've already failed. Nokia's prior dominance is totally irrelevant here. That was so far removed from the present era of mobile phones that Nokia doesn't even register for many Americans beyond a novel, where-are-they-now kind of mindset. Nokia maintained a strong presence overseas than they did in the US. So you have to count Nokia as a new player.

    Apple outselling Nokia 10-to-1 is meaningless in this context. Nokia's 4th quarter was a good one. What really matters is how 2013 plays out.

    I will point out that the American retail model sucks. Being a sales leader ensures prominent retail space. But what most people don't realize is that companies also have to pay for retail space, the better the spot the more expensive it is. And even then you're left to the whim of the individual store, whether or not employees care about doing their job properly.

    To this day, the Targets I've been to have the Lumia 900 on display, not the 920. As of a month ago Best Buy had no Lumia 920s, but did have the 820 and the HTC 8X. AT&T stores are pathetic; huge, imposing Apple displays with the Lumia 920, in black, tucked away in a corner of the store. You have to search for it to realize they carry them at all. They should have a prominent display with every color of the phone sitting there side-by-side for everyone to ogle.

    It's a crap deal Nokia is getting for it's AT&T exclusivity. They squander advertising dollars on meaningless celebrity TV spots. Just so that consumers can walk into stores, not see the Nokia's anywhere and instead be distracted by the gleaming iPhones.

    That said, I don't think any rational thinking adult didn't think this was going to be an uphill battle for Nokia. So far things are looking encouraging.
    allos autos and snowmutt like this.
    01-25-2013 12:34 PM
  9. tekhna's Avatar
    I don't know how anyone could've expected any different. I think what everyone expected is that the Nokia Lumia 920 would do great because of it's exceptional camera and other hardware advantages, and it has done very well. To compare the entire iPhone line to Nokia is stupid, how about comparing iPhone 5 32GB sales to Nokia Lumia 920 sales, I'd be curious to see those numbers on AT&T alone too.
    But lots of people here expected different. There was much talk of how Windows 8/Windows RT/Windows Phone 8 would form a trifecta that would radically change the fortunes of Windows Phone, but so far that simply hasn't happened. Windows RT has fizzled, Windows 8 isn't going anywhere, but it hasn't boosted Windows Phone sales, and Microsoft seems to have screwed the pooch on marketing Windows Phone. I don't think anyone expected WP to overthrow iOS or Android, but getting pummeled during a holiday season isn't exactly a good sign.
    01-25-2013 12:35 PM
  10. paddylaz's Avatar
    The most wonderful thing I think about windows phone 8 is that it doesn't try to copy iOS. It does its OWN thing. I'v always believed that Android is a poor man's iOS and a complete (but inferior) copy. WP7/8 was the first to show something genuinely new and I fell in love with its fluidity.

    If anyone has the time and inclination, I would recommend watching the original 2007 iPhone presentation by Steve Jobs. The most amazing thing about it is the way it reminds you of the many things that iOS pioneered that you would never believe they did because they seem so standard now (e.g. scrolling, pinch to zoom, sms conversations, gyro image rotation etc etc). You can tell by the crowd's applause whenever he introduced something brand new because it genuinely is the first time the assembled journalists had seen them. It really is this kind of thing that reminds me why I love tech, and why I love innovation. And I don't say this as a 'fanboy' (god i hate that word) but just a lover of the new:

    01-25-2013 12:37 PM
  11. TonePhone's Avatar
    rofl @ apple inventing the smartphone

    Nokia needs to get it's act together and get instagram on board if they hope to touch android or IOS, people won't just abandon major social networks because they love live tiles
    ragingklu and snowmutt like this.
    01-25-2013 12:37 PM
  12. martinmc78's Avatar
    BBC News - Samsung leads mobile phone shipments

    Some interesting figures on global shipments by company - As the saying goes - "How do you like them apples?"

    1st Samsung

    2nd Nokia

    3rd Apple
    01-25-2013 12:37 PM
  13. Laura Knotek's Avatar


    I will point out that the American retail model sucks. Being a sales leader ensures prominent retail space. But what most people don't realize is that companies also have to pay for retail space, the better the spot the more expensive it is. And even then you're left to the whim of the individual store, whether or not employees care about doing their job properly.
    That is absolutely true. It applies to all products in retail stores.

    That is the reason why Coca-Cola or Pepsi get that prominent eye-level spot in Walmart, Target, or your local grocery store, and other brands are on a bottom shelf.
    snowmutt likes this.
    01-25-2013 12:41 PM
  14. inteller's Avatar
    Samsung commercials are working because, in addition to the smug condescending angle they use at snubbing iPhone, they actually show features in use. In fact I don't think there is one commercial that DOESN'T show nfc transfer. Microsoft gives us second rate celeb cooking and sitting on their couch. The differences are beyond disturbing.
    01-25-2013 12:44 PM
  15. ragingklu's Avatar
    I'm interested in how Nokia is doing compared to where their target is and where they need to be. Right now that has zero to do with the iPhone or how many units Nokia has sold relative to Apple this year.

    Samsung commercials are working because, in addition to the smug condescending angle they use at snubbing iPhone, they actually show features in use. In fact I don't think there is one commercial that DOESN'T show nfc transfer. Microsoft gives us second rate celeb cooking and sitting on their couch. The differences are beyond disturbing.
    Exactly. Scam Newton. Will Arnett (although those are somewhat chuckle-worthy). Neither of those really gets into anything the phone does other than the generic "it's better for this or that or the other thing". Show me! Tell me why!
    01-25-2013 12:45 PM
  16. johninsj's Avatar
    considering iphone beat wp7x at about 100:1 I think 10:1 is pretty damn good.
    Nataku4ca likes this.
    01-25-2013 12:55 PM
  17. JerseySal's Avatar
    The problem is the culture. Everything has to be NOW. It's as if people think if Nokia doesn't get to the top immediately, they suck balls. Give it some more time. I have my WP8 already, and I'm happy with it. I don't give two fuc*s if everybody else doesn't have one. It's a good phone IMO, and if it flops, something better will be available by then. It's a mother-fuc*ing phone for Christ's sake! It's not a life/death thing. I'm not going to worry that my WP8 is frowned upon by a bunch of hipster iTards and punk *** Google turds. They all stink. (I could have stated this nicely, but I felt like being overdramitic -_- )

    PS.

    I love all Mobile Nations peeps.
    01-25-2013 12:58 PM
  18. TK2011's Avatar
    According to AT&T, iphone beat all Androids combined by 5-to-1 also. So what does that mean? C'mon, let's leave those sensational headlines outside of here.
    01-25-2013 01:03 PM
  19. tgp's Avatar
    I love my 920 but I had to give up some things to switch from the iphone, seems silly but stuff like having to get all new accesories to function with the new device, loosing capability to work nicele with my car stereo, and many apps that we used regularly just not on WM8 yet.

    About a month after I got the 920 my wife decided she liked the larger display and instead of getting an iphone 5 she replaced her 4 with an HTC 8x. Just like me it took a few days to adapt to the new OS and find stuff on the phone, but the inability to operate through her car stereo the same as well as some critical missing apps that she needs for convenience and work killed it, 3 weeks later she traded it back in for a new 5 and loves it.

    That sums up 90% or more of your smart phone users. They aren't technical enough to get over the little stuff and find other ways to do them on the new device or overlook missing things in because they have a superior device. They are willing to spend the same or more money for, what is in many ways, an inferior product because its comfortable and easy to use for them. And lets be honest here, Siri is great, I haven't seen anything else that works as well, and watching my wife seamlessly use it in day to day for scheduling and even verifying her schedule on certain days is pretty neat.

    I keep the 920 because I love it, but I hate the fact that the gmail doesn't work as easily and it f-ing kills me that I can't plug my phone into the usb adaptor in my car and charge the phone while using the head unit to control music like I did on the iphone. And everytime we have to deposit a check my wife bust my balls about not having a functioning Chase app to make deposits. But I overlook because I love the device for everything else.
    I think this post sums it up for most consumers. WP might have a new, smooth, fast, and exciting UI, but ultimately a user is sacrificing functionality. To some users it may not matter, or workarounds can be found, but the vast majority expects to pull the device out of the box and use it. As a new WP7 user, I was frankly surprised by the lack of maturity, after being released 2+ years ago. A lot of functions, which Android & iPhone users have come to rely on, are not there.

    My first smartphone was a WM device back in 2008 or so, then I went to Android, then to iPhone, then to WP7. Currently I'm using an Android again. I wanted to make WP7 work, but I had already had a couple years of Android/iPhone, and I couldn't do it.
    01-25-2013 01:05 PM
  20. TonyDedrick's Avatar
    The problem is the culture. Everything has to be NOW. It's as if people think if Nokia doesn't get to the top immediately, they suck balls. Give it some more time. I have my WP8 already, and I'm happy with it. I don't give two fuc*s if everybody else doesn't have one. It's a good phone IMO, and if it flops, something better will be available by then. It's a mother-fuc*ing phone for Christ's sake! It's not a life/death thing. I'm not going to worry that my WP8 is frowned upon by a bunch of hipster iTards and punk *** Google turds. They all stink. (I could have stated this nicely, but I felt like being overdramitic -_- )

    PS.

    I love all Mobile Nations peeps.
    I think at the end of the day, people just want their money's worth. Now certainly, it isn't that hard to do research on a device and know that it doesn't have the features you are looking for. I think in the WP community, some might be a bit disappointed because there was all this hype (at least on this site) about WP8, W8 and the Surface. It was supposed to be the game changer. And while it has distinguished itself from previous iterations, I don't think its had the affect many hoped. For me personally, I could careless if everyone else has one (though it helps to have the devices in as many hands as possible to get those missing apps). I just want to know that there is some commitment from Microsoft to this platform. I don't work for them, so I can't say what their level of commitment truly is. But from the outside looking in, its a bit disconcerting in some aspects. Still some basic features missing, the music/media situation being half *** and just a lack of transparency on when some of these things will be fixed just doesn't infuse you with a lot of confidence.

    As I said before, this platform has my support. But it isn't blind and undying. MS has to meet me (and all WP fans) half way. Unless you are satisfied with how things are now.
    01-25-2013 01:17 PM
  21. dmdavid's Avatar
    first of all,NOKIA has never been good in N.A. And second of all,this is a brand new product,and it doesnt have the years and years of hype and free publicity that Iphone had. They cant take over overnight,especially when they still dont have alot of apps that would entice buyers into choosing this platform. This is not news and not a surprise.
    01-25-2013 01:20 PM
  22. Alex Rodriguez Jr.'s Avatar
    I'll be honest, I have little pursuading me to read this entire thread. What I will say, though, is that Nokia has been selling flagship Windows Phones for less than a year in the United States, and in that short time, they have changed the view of the OS in the eyes of a lot of people. Enough to switch? That remains to be seen, but I promise you, the G1 was not the most successful phone in history. Actually, if I remember correctly, following the G1, people said Google was doomed... We know how that turned out. Give it time.
    01-25-2013 01:20 PM
  23. TonePhone's Avatar
    I love my 920 but I had to give up some things to switch from the iphone, seems silly but stuff like having to get all new accesories to function with the new device, loosing capability to work nicele with my car stereo, and many apps that we used regularly just not on WM8 yet.

    About a month after I got the 920 my wife decided she liked the larger display and instead of getting an iphone 5 she replaced her 4 with an HTC 8x. Just like me it took a few days to adapt to the new OS and find stuff on the phone, but the inability to operate through her car stereo the same as well as some critical missing apps that she needs for convenience and work killed it, 3 weeks later she traded it back in for a new 5 and loves it.

    That sums up 90% or more of your smart phone users. They aren't technical enough to get over the little stuff and find other ways to do them on the new device or overlook missing things in because they have a superior device. They are willing to spend the same or more money for, what is in many ways, an inferior product because its comfortable and easy to use for them. And lets be honest here, Siri is great, I haven't seen anything else that works as well, and watching my wife seamlessly use it in day to day for scheduling and even verifying her schedule on certain days is pretty neat.

    I keep the 920 because I love it, but I hate the fact that the gmail doesn't work as easily and it f-ing kills me that I can't plug my phone into the usb adaptor in my car and charge the phone while using the head unit to control music like I did on the iphone. And everytime we have to deposit a check my wife bust my balls about not having a functioning Chase app to make deposits. But I overlook because I love the device for everything else.
    This quote 100% sums up the experience with a WP8 device and Microsoft for seem reason seems to ignore it. Well said sir!
    01-25-2013 01:20 PM
  24. cgk's Avatar
    It is pretty clear that the american smartphone market is reaching saturation and that the action will be about switchers rather than people changing from dumb-phones, so it is going to be hard for Nokia. *however* the real problem for Nokia is that in growing markets they are being left behind.
    01-25-2013 01:36 PM
  25. cgk's Avatar
    The problem is the culture. Everything has to be NOW. .
    Surely for the individual consumer, it has to be about now - seems stupid to buy a smartphone on the basis of what it maybe couldbe should do in the future.
    01-25-2013 01:38 PM
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