08-05-2013 11:13 PM
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  1. mase123987's Avatar
    Thanks. One thing that I'm missing from WP8 as I'm using the Z10 (Been using it all week) is toast notifications. I know it's just a different philosophy between the two OS's but I was browsing the 'net on my Z10 and the phone vibrated. It was a text message but I had no clue at all. On WP8 I would have a toast that I could either ignore, swipe away right away, or tap on to reply. On the Z10 I have to do the peek gesture, which does tell me right away what could possibly be new. If I want to do any action on it, I need to complete the gesture to get into the hub. However, that presents the same problem I spoke in my previous post. Once I'm in the hub, I'm to the spot I last was, so it might be a few extra steps to get to the text message.

    Now, give the Z10 a toast like popup and we are getting somewhere.
    Toast notifications are coming in an update.
    08-02-2013 01:53 PM
  2. tk-093's Avatar
    Toast notifications are coming in an update.
    Sweet. That will be nice. I've been more getting the BES10 server ready and not paying as much attention to the device update stuff.
    08-02-2013 02:16 PM
  3. Ian Too's Avatar
    I've never used a Blackberry, so have no standard of comparison, but would like to make a few comments regarding some of the things in this thread.

    First is the rivalry between owners of WP and Blackberry, which covers neither community in any glory. If Blackberry does end up a 'dead platform', it won't make me happy. Quite the contrary, I'd like to see Windows Phone, Blackberry and a resurgent Apple take the battle to the Googlemonster. When I opted for Windows Phone, it was for positive reasons and experience has proven that that decision was the right one for me. I'm convinced WP is the best OS overall and best suited to the needs of the average user.

    I am one of the people who would like to see a notification centre in WP, but it is not the deal killer some would have you believe. This is because the start screen in WP is the notification centre. Once past the lock screen, you are presented with tiles which give you information without having to open an app and developers have been very successful in using this capability to provide a fluid and refreshing UI. My one gripe is that if you miss a notification when its posted on the lock screen, there's no way to find out what it was.

    I have yet to find a single convincing reason why full multi-tasking is useful on a phone. On a computer, you could use multi-tasking to check your email while Excel is crunching numbers or even watch a movie while generating a Mandelbrot scan, but where is the mobile equivalent? Windows phone does do somethings like play music or download files in the background, but I've yet to see a user task that works that way. As far as I can see, Microsoft were right in limiting the ability to multi-task - every task running uses battery and processor resources.

    On a related note, the ability to close apps is redundant in Windows Phone, because when not on screen they don't use resources. The system is designed so that you don't have to manage apps, so when you've finished with an app you just hit the Windows key and move on. If you want to go back to an app, then hold the Back key and swipe to the app you want - the system will then carry on from where you left it. If the system needs more resources, it closes the least used app by itself. I do wonder if that is why I've never suffered the 'other storage' bug, because I use the device the way it was intended.

    The app question is an odd one for me because I can't understand why Blackberry would taint perhaps the most secure platform of all by enabling it to run malware. By enabling the side-loading of Android apps, Blackberry have opened a can of worms. One of the reasons I denounce Android is that it is a completely open ecosystem, meaning that there is no protection for users - especially non-technical ones - from hackers. What's worse is that whatever virus protection runs under Android does so without any special privileges, which is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Why Blackberry went down this route I'll never know. I am truly mystified. Also, I have never felt the app store to be restrictive.

    The ugliest word in this thread is bias. If I had Microsoft shares or were payed for every device I sell, then it would be right to say I was biased, but since I see no pecuniary advantage from your purchase I repudiate the charge. Partisan yes, biased no. This is a Windows Phone forum.

    So here are my reasons you should choose the Nokia:
    i. The camera is radically better than that offered on any other mobile phone with the exception of the Lumia 1020..
    ii. The Here mapping services are superb. A friend of mine used his new Lumia 920 instead of his Tomtom and is now selling the Tomtom because he thinks the navigation service is better on the Nokia.
    iii. Web services. As well as Xbox and 7Gb of free cloud storage, important information like contacts and calendar are synchronised automatically and available on your Windows 8 PC or tablet. Using Outlook.com, you can set up multiple calendars, including customizable recurring appointments and have it all synchronised on your phone. All colour-coded, of course.
    iv. I've used Windows Phone devices for over two years now and they have all proved exemplary. Reliable, gimmick-free and easy to use.
    v. Like iOS, Windows Phone is a walled garden. Every app in the Windows Phone store has to pass stringent standards and is vetted by Microsoft. This means you don't need technical knowledge to safely use Windows Phone.
    vi. Windows Phone has a bright future. While many detractors have fixated on the 3%(now 3.9%) market share, they do not appreciate that WP is an integral part of a coherent plan - called the 3 screen strategy - Microsoft has for the future. While many companies are innovating, only MS plans to integrate Windows devices into a seamless whole which will enable many new possibilities. Buying that Nokia will put you on the crest of a wave of innovation which is nothing short of exciting.

    This is all of course, opinion. Whatever you do choose, I hope it serves you well because I do know what it's like living with a device you hate for two years.

    Good luck.
    08-02-2013 02:23 PM
  4. mase123987's Avatar
    I've never used a Blackberry, so have no standard of comparison, but would like to make a few comments regarding some of the things in this thread.

    First is the rivalry between owners of WP and Blackberry, which covers neither community in any glory. If Blackberry does end up a 'dead platform', it won't make me happy. Quite the contrary, I'd like to see Windows Phone, Blackberry and a resurgent Apple take the battle to the Googlemonster. When I opted for Windows Phone, it was for positive reasons and experience has proven that that decision was the right one for me. I'm convinced WP is the best OS overall and best suited to the needs of the average user.

    I am one of the people who would like to see a notification centre in WP, but it is not the deal killer some would have you believe. This is because the start screen in WP is the notification centre. Once past the lock screen, you are presented with tiles which give you information without having to open an app and developers have been very successful in using this capability to provide a fluid and refreshing UI. My one gripe is that if you miss a notification when its posted on the lock screen, there's no way to find out what it was.

    I have yet to find a single convincing reason why full multi-tasking is useful on a phone. On a computer, you could use multi-tasking to check your email while Excel is crunching numbers or even watch a movie while generating a Mandelbrot scan, but where is the mobile equivalent? Windows phone does do somethings like play music or download files in the background, but I've yet to see a user task that works that way. As far as I can see, Microsoft were right in limiting the ability to multi-task - every task running uses battery and processor resources.

    On a related note, the ability to close apps is redundant in Windows Phone, because when not on screen they don't use resources. The system is designed so that you don't have to manage apps, so when you've finished with an app you just hit the Windows key and move on. If you want to go back to an app, then hold the Back key and swipe to the app you want - the system will then carry on from where you left it. If the system needs more resources, it closes the least used app by itself. I do wonder if that is why I've never suffered the 'other storage' bug, because I use the device the way it was intended.

    The app question is an odd one for me because I can't understand why Blackberry would taint perhaps the most secure platform of all by enabling it to run malware. By enabling the side-loading of Android apps, Blackberry have opened a can of worms. One of the reasons I denounce Android is that it is a completely open ecosystem, meaning that there is no protection for users - especially non-technical ones - from hackers. What's worse is that whatever virus protection runs under Android does so without any special privileges, which is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Why Blackberry went down this route I'll never know. I am truly mystified. Also, I have never felt the app store to be restrictive.

    The ugliest word in this thread is bias. If I had Microsoft shares or were payed for every device I sell, then it would be right to say I was biased, but since I see no pecuniary advantage from your purchase I repudiate the charge. Partisan yes, biased no. This is a Windows Phone forum.

    So here are my reasons you should choose the Nokia:
    i. The camera is radically better than that offered on any other mobile phone with the exception of the Lumia 1020..
    ii. The Here mapping services are superb. A friend of mine used his new Lumia 920 instead of his Tomtom and is now selling the Tomtom because he thinks the navigation service is better on the Nokia.
    iii. Web services. As well as Xbox and 7Gb of free cloud storage, important information like contacts and calendar are synchronised automatically and available on your Windows 8 PC or tablet. Using Outlook.com, you can set up multiple calendars, including customizable recurring appointments and have it all synchronised on your phone. All colour-coded, of course.
    iv. I've used Windows Phone devices for over two years now and they have all proved exemplary. Reliable, gimmick-free and easy to use.
    v. Like iOS, Windows Phone is a walled garden. Every app in the Windows Phone store has to pass stringent standards and is vetted by Microsoft. This means you don't need technical knowledge to safely use Windows Phone.
    vi. Windows Phone has a bright future. While many detractors have fixated on the 3%(now 3.9%) market share, they do not appreciate that WP is an integral part of a coherent plan - called the 3 screen strategy - Microsoft has for the future. While many companies are innovating, only MS plans to integrate Windows devices into a seamless whole which will enable many new possibilities. Buying that Nokia will put you on the crest of a wave of innovation which is nothing short of exciting.

    This is all of course, opinion. Whatever you do choose, I hope it serves you well because I do know what it's like living with a device you hate for two years.

    Good luck.
    It is a little weird that you would insist that we should root for any OS to go away.

    You said you don't see the reason for true multitasking. Once you have it, you will know why. Having up to 8 programs running is great to have. Look at it this way: On a computer, you might have 6 tabs open to different sites and services you use. Chances are you use the same services and sites on your phone, except though apps. So now, instead of needing one browser like on a computer, you have 5 or 6 apps open that you want to switch inbetween.

    As far as sideloading goes, BB isn't open to all the same issues with Android apps as Android. Look at it like an emulator on a computer.
    FinancialP likes this.
    08-02-2013 02:43 PM
  5. Fred P's Avatar
    you mean toast notifications that displays the content (foul language from a client) of the text message right on top of the cartoon video i am showing to my kids
    08-02-2013 02:56 PM
  6. mase123987's Avatar
    you mean toast notifications that displays the content (foul language from a client) of the text message right on top of the cartoon video i am showing to my kids
    Most apps allow you to control if you want toast notifications. Also, I can't help that you have friends that talk dirty to you while your child has your phone.
    tgp and Th3 I3LooD like this.
    08-02-2013 02:58 PM
  7. iamtim's Avatar
    Also, I can't help that you have friends that talk dirty to you while your child has your phone.
    Yeah, that's not any software maker's issue... YOU as a parent need to insure your kids are not exposed to that which you don't want them exposed. If you have friends or clients who talk dirty to you on your phone and you don't want your kids exposed, maybe you shouldn't be showing the phone to your kid in the first place.
    tk-093 likes this.
    08-02-2013 03:26 PM
  8. tk-093's Avatar
    you mean toast notifications that displays the content (foul language from a client) of the text message right on top of the cartoon video i am showing to my kids
    Been answered in the other thread. If you launch your apps from Kid's Corner on WP8, toasts are disabled. Problem solved.
    11B1P likes this.
    08-02-2013 03:36 PM
  9. Ferazzz's Avatar
    Nothing is a better choice, its all subjective.

    Ask this question on crackberry and youll be amazed at the comments you get supporting blackberry.

    Just like some people on this site promote Office for windows phone without knowing that options exist on other platforms.

    Better is whatever YOU like, not what WE on the internet like.
    I could not agree more with that response man. I wish everyone understood this
    08-02-2013 03:43 PM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    As far as sideloading goes, BB isn't open to all the same issues with Android apps as Android. Look at it like an emulator on a computer.
    But sideloading is by far not the only way to get your Android device infested with malware! We have seen many instances of people getting scammed or robbed by Android apps that are downloaded through the official google play store.

    What I do not know is how such malware behaves on BB10, but at least theoretically a fully functional emulator should expose BB10 to the same risks.
    08-02-2013 04:54 PM
  11. mase123987's Avatar
    But sideloading is by far not the only way to get your Android device infested with malware! We have seen many instances of people getting scammed or robbed by Android apps that are downloaded through the official google play store.

    What I do not know is how such malware behaves on BB10, but at least theoretically a fully functional emulator should expose BB10 to the same risks.
    Think of Bluestacks on PC. You can run apps downloaded from the Play Store, but your PC has zero chance of falling victim to Android malware.
    08-02-2013 04:57 PM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    Think of Bluestacks on PC. You can run apps downloaded from the Play Store, but your PC has zero chance of falling victim to Android malware.
    Ahh... I see what you are thinking... it doesn't work that way...

    If the Android app wants to send a text, then the emulator will cause the device to send that text. If the Android app wants to access all your contacts and send them mails, the emulator will do that too. In other words, the emulator allows Android apps to control hardware and access data stored on the BB10 device. The Android emulator is not providing a completely isolated environment like bluestacks does.

    What I do not know is if BBRY thought some Android features are unacceptably large security risks, and decided not to support them (in which case all apps using those features wouldn't run on BB10), or if they are correctly emulating the entire Android API.
    08-02-2013 05:41 PM
  13. mase123987's Avatar
    Ahh... I see what you are thinking... it doesn't work that way...

    If the Android app wants to send a text, then the emulator will cause the device to send that text. If the Android app wants to access all your contacts and send them mails, the emulator will do that too. In other words, the emulator allows Android apps to control hardware and access data stored on the BB10 device. The Android emulator is not providing a completely isolated environment like bluestacks does.

    What I do not know is if BBRY thought some Android features are unacceptably large security risks, and decided not to support them (in which case all apps using those features wouldn't run on BB10), or if they are correctly emulating the entire Android API.
    Side loaded Android apps do not have access to bluetooth
    08-02-2013 06:26 PM
  14. aximtreo's Avatar
    It comes down to *basic* phone functionality.

    Screen Orientation Lock,
    Notification Centre,
    Sound Profiles,
    LED Notification,
    customizable tones for IMs (viber, whatsapp etc)
    functional Facebook app that actually gives you notifications,
    universal phone search,
    a way to search text messages,
    A way to kill apps directly ( you have to keep pressing the back button to exit an app in WP8)

    The Z10 has them , WP8 does not.

    The romance with live tiles and the UI will last about a month.
    Then you will realize that WP8 is miles behind the competition and simple basic features are missing. I made a mistake with my contract when I got Lumia 920. It never crossed my mind to research whether the phone would have the above said features as I took them for granted.......
    Yada Yada Yada, can't you come up with more than the rehashed list of things you mention?

    Yes, they don't exist but would I let this list influence my decision? HELL NO.

    WP8 is just over one year old and it is maturing faster than any OS up to now. Yes, they had the advantage of knowing what the target was, Apple and Android. I firmly believe that the overall experience and integration that MS offers can't be matched by anyone; maybe Google.

    Just look at the past history of RIM, rode their laurels from the top to the bottom. Problem was, they didn't see the bottom until it was too late.

    Go with the WP8 and enjoy the ride.
    Th3 I3LooD likes this.
    08-02-2013 06:40 PM
  15. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Go with what you want.

    Why have overly biased people (both from CrackBerry AND WPCentral) tell you what to get when you can follow your heart and return it if it's not really meant for you?
    Ferazzz and FinancialP like this.
    08-02-2013 06:50 PM
  16. anon(5961790)'s Avatar
    Wait gdr3 update.. Choose then

    7 months wp8 and 920 user.
    08-02-2013 08:23 PM
  17. dosto's Avatar
    I owned the Z10 for 3 months before trading it in for the Q10. I picked up the 925 last week. Currently, I am using both the Q10 and the 925 on a daily basis for work.

    As much as I like the 925, and I really like it, if I had to choose between a Z10 and 925, then I would go with the Z10, but that's just me. Your specific needs, wants and preferences will differ from mine and everyone else's.

    I suggest making a list of what the most important features are for you. What do you use the most on a daily basis? For me, email, text, phone are, by far, my most used features. Thus, BB is a good choice for me as my daily driver. I picked up the 925, specifically, because I recently started using Office365 in my law practice.

    After you know what's most important to you, go to the store and play with each device. IMO, it's difficult to make a decision on a phone, until you've had it in-hand.

    For me, the Z10 excels at communication and multi-tasking. Also, the keyboard is absolutely fantastic. The best virtual keyboard I've ever used.

    The Lumia has a great camera (of course) and the Microsoft (Office365, SkyDrive, Xbox) integration is wonderful.

    In the end, you can't go wrong with either device. They are both great! Pick the one that's right for you.
    08-02-2013 10:20 PM
  18. Liam Perry's Avatar
    OP, let me clear some things up. I am a proud 920 owner, as well as a proud Z10 owners.

    One post said they though BB was a dead platform. I think BB will be fine, at least for the length of time you will own the phone. I would not worry about the.

    Apps-WP is def. better in this area. BB is in the situation that WP was back around early Spring of 2012. They have some big name apps, but a lot are missing. To those that say that all apps that are just ported from Android to BB are crap, they are wrong. There are def. some examples of crap, but I could just as easily find native WP apps that are horrible.

    As far as sideloading Android apps, it is harder than you would think. You have to first get the APK file from somewhere (there are ways of getting them from the Play Store. You then have to use a program to convert them to a BAR file (which first requires getting a token directly from BB). Then you have to use another program to install it on your BB phone. I found apps that I sideloaded took longer to load at first, but then ran just fine. Currently, only Android apps compatible with Android 2.3.3 and below will work with BB. If they require a higher version, you will have to wait for BB10.2 (official current release is 10.1). There are other limitations as well. Bluetooth, for example, won't work with apps you sideloaded.

    Ease of use - BB10 is def. harder to learn that WP, but not hard. It has a different flow than the other OSes. Once you get the basics it isn't hard at all. I actually prefer the way it does some things with swipe gestures compared to buttons.

    Music - WP is better considering you can use a lot of the different music services plus Xbox music. That said, I do believe you can use Google Music through the browser on the Z10 (though obviously that isn't a perfect solution by any means).

    Browser - Z10 kills WP for one reason: built in Flash support. I am not one of those people who believe that Flash is worthless. For example, I don't think any platform has a good Justin.tv app. They all suffer from problems. The Z10 is the only phone I can use Justin.TV from the website which is a better experience. Also, Amazon Instant Video works extremely well though the Z10 browser because of Flash. WP can't use the service at all because of no app or Flash. When it comes to video based apps, the Z10 can make up for a lot of them that are missing because of this one feature.

    Camera - 925 will destroy the Z10.

    Keyboard - Really good on either phone.

    Multitasking - Z10 is the winner. With true multitasking (all apps are actually still running compared to WP), switching between is a lot easier. BB10 also puts open apps more in the forefront by turning the multitask selection page into the homepage.

    Microsoft integration - Obviously WP is significantly easier and more powerful for this. I would say though that the z10 is better if you use a lot of Google services.

    As far as the posts that talk about missing "basic features" on WP, they are missing, but are only "basic" to some people. It really comes down to what works for you. No need for me to go into each one.

    It really is going to come down to what you use your phone for.

    Click here to check out my review of the Z10 to get further details.
    THANKYOU! This was actually really helpful! The retail stores where I live only carry dummy devices, so it hasn't been much help, and the reps don't seem to know anything about non-apple devices. I'm mostly just looking for a phone that gets out of the way of what you want to do. Notification center isn't super important because from what i understand, you get counters on the start screen, for apps that have notifications.

    I do have a Windows 8 Computer, though I don't know what microsoft services I use other than Hotmail and the exchange mail at my uni.
    My main question is about getting music onto the 925... I know that Zune doesn't work on WP8 phones, is there a new app in place or do you use Windows Media Player now?
    08-02-2013 11:21 PM
  19. HarisA1's Avatar
    You can still use Zune but now you have the option to use Xbox music its more flexible in windows phone 8
    08-02-2013 11:31 PM
  20. freestaterocker's Avatar
    You can still use Zune but now you have the option to use Xbox music its more flexible in windows phone 8
    Zune doesn't work for WP8. Your Windows 8 PC will have the WP8 app already installed, or you can drag and drop, or use Media Player, or any number of myriad options. If you have iTunes, the WP8 app can sync your content from there to your WP8.
    08-02-2013 11:48 PM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    Side loaded Android apps do not have access to bluetooth
    Ok, one ability down, only one gazillion to go :-)
    08-03-2013 03:06 AM
  22. 11B1P's Avatar
    @11B1P

    Each one of the things I mentioned on their own arent too bad . But combined it becomes one big thing.
    I will agree with you. For some people these are really big things. I'm looking forward to seeing some improvements to the os, but for the majority, I like it over the competition.
    08-03-2013 06:56 AM
  23. Ian Too's Avatar
    You said you don't see the reason for true multitasking. Once you have it, you will know why. Having up to 8 programs running is great to have. Look at it this way: On a computer, you might have 6 tabs open to different sites and services you use. Chances are you use the same services and sites on your phone, except though apps. So now, instead of needing one browser like on a computer, you have 5 or 6 apps open that you want to switch inbetween.

    As far as sideloading goes, BB isn't open to all the same issues with Android apps as Android. Look at it like an emulator on a computer.
    Before you go too far with your patronising attitude, you should know that I built my first computer with a soldering iron and could well have been programming while you were gestating.

    I know what multi-tasking is, having had it on my computers for decades. What's more I have used it as intended, leaving Excel to perform a statistical analysis, while I began writing a report on Word. This is what true multi-tasking is about: performing two active tasks simultaneously.

    Windows Phone fulfills the scenario you outline and does not need full multi-tasking; in fact having full multi-tasking is a waste of resources and helps explain why all but high-end Android devices are so damn clunky. Now if you'd like to describe a case where true multi-tasking is taking place - rather than merely flipping between two static tasks - then you might convince me, but nothing I've seen since I got my fist smartphone over a decade ago leads me to the conclusion full multi-tasking is any use on a smartphone. Incidentally, Windows Mobile supported full multitasking and you will see two WM devices in the picture in my signature below.
    08-03-2013 09:54 AM
  24. Th3 I3LooD's Avatar
    I am a hard core Lumia fanboy because my Lumia 800 has served me better over the last 18 months then any device I have ever owned, but I am also open to something better and judge with perspective.

    Each of these 2 devices has Pro's and Cons (obviously) and Although I have had only a couple of hours hands on with the Z10 and none with the 925 I can give you this well researched advice.

    925 is better with

    #1 MUSIC because of Nokia Music services as well as Xbox Music, you will enjoy the Live tile and artist background and lockscreen experiance
    #2 GAMING because of native Xbox integration
    #3 BUILD QUALITY... No need for me to go in to this as you know what I'm talking about
    #4 CAMERA....
    #5 NOKIA SUPPORT their devices with constant updates and upgrades to enhance your experiance more so then any other OEM

    Like I mentioned, I dont really know much about the Z10 but the couple of hours I spent helping a friend with her Z10 was HORRIBLE! the settings menu kept freezing up and went dark and she had to keep restarting her phone. That is most probably a rare and device specific error but the whole experiance I had thus far with BB10 left a bad taste in my mouth.
    08-03-2013 10:19 AM
  25. gsquared's Avatar
    Mase. Your review is excellent. You are correct with my thoughts of BB being a dead-end platform. Its something that will not effect anyone in the short-term. The longer-term however is where BB will have a very hard time. As all of their competitors build toward their own integrated infrastructures BB will become isolated and slowly just fade away.

    A huge lack of foresight on BB's management is the unfortunate cause. Had they seen how important the integrated services would become when they were controlling the market I think two of the current four OS's wouldn't be around. WP being one of them.
    08-03-2013 10:36 AM
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