10-02-2013 09:50 AM
43 12
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  1. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    A little OTT for a title, but after recent going ons with Microsoft and Google, pretty sure some will see it like this...

    Last few years I've had an Omnia7 followed by a Lumia 900, and have had intentions of getting onto WP8 with the 1020, but grabbed a Nexus4 this week after the big price drop. I need a device from most platforms for my work, and already having an iPad this will fill the android gap. (Last android device I owned was the HTC Hero)

    159 for the nexus4 new unlocked, and CEX will give up to 94 for my old 900 so cheap 'upgrade' to tide me over until the 1020 arrives at these shores. After using the thing for a few days this thing seems like a bargain of the year. It runs smooth, huge library of apps, camera is meh, but a solidly built device. There will be things that I miss from WP I'm sure but it's only a month or two.

    Whilst there is a ton of crap on android, and the frustrations of having too much customisation can be a distraction, already finding things I just wish windows phone did right. Whilst I'm only going by WP7.8 and can't speak for how much has changed in 8.0/ 8.1, early findings..

    Notifications...
    Yeah covered constantly, but after using the nexus I now agree. Windows Phone needs something more than just the tiles. Tiles rarely update on time, toasts are easily missable, and things do get missed. Whilst the system can be overkill on android, you can at least tweak the hell out of it if needed. Could be wrong here but I think more of this has to be controlled at system level rather than by the app itself? Old apps that haven't been updated often seem to be the worst offenders.

    Deeper integration with apps and hubs...
    Click an Instagram link in twitter it asks me if I want to open the Instagram app, do this always or just once? Brilliant. It works.

    Games
    Xbox on Windows Phone has been a huge disappointment. Microsoft messed up by creating such strict rules and procedures to getting a game labelled as XBL and the majority of which are old titles from yesteryear. Hopefully with the new indie plan for Xbox One they will do something similar on the phone platform. The fact that old XBL games are being rereleased without XBL status (looking at you Doodle Jump, Angry Birds etc) says it all. Unity will help massively, but they need to push it as an option, to play catchup here.

    Multitasking.
    I know this has changed on WP8 but 4-5 apps isn't enough. Tombstoning should be an option, and an option that can also be linked to the battery saver.

    Modern/Metro
    I love the UI on WP, but it need developing further, especially for larger screens. The Facebook Beta and Twitter apps are great examples of where to start. Developers can create similar UIs for both android and iOS but when it comes to windows phone, it must be a case of going back to the drawing board. Reality is, most won't bother and they aren't, which is why the app selection isn't going to match the competition.

    Folders
    I don't like the idea of folders on WP, I think it's the wrong direction, but I do think it should be possible in some way to group or save tile sets. I'd love to see the option of saving a start screen theme as 'home' 'work' 'travelling' etc with accent colours for each.

    Things that I'm missing so far...
    The people hub, the dedicated camera button, media controls on volume rocker, the Nokia apps, wpcentral!, metrotube, Wikipedia (Rudy's), the keyboard, the sounds (androids are awful), metro, fantasia painter.







    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free
    08-31-2013 07:10 AM
  2. DBDev's Avatar
    Nice write-up! It's always pros and cons with everything...
    BIGPADDY likes this.
    08-31-2013 07:25 AM
  3. scottcraft's Avatar
    I'm in a similar situation. I shattered the screen on my 8X a couple of months ago so I've been using my Android until I get something to replace it. At this point I don't see me going back to WP until 8.1 is released. There are too many things Android does better for me. I do miss the camera button and keyboard though.
    sHAYM4N and chmun77 like this.
    08-31-2013 08:27 AM
  4. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    Yeah the keyboard for android I don't think is bad, pretty good that it's got a swype style thing built in now, but wp wins here for me. Im a bit frustrated with Nokia and their releases tbh. Ok, they announced the 1020 and released pretty quickly thereafter, but one market and one carrier? Already seems like yesterdays news and still weeks from release here.

    Strike when the iron is hot and release when the press is writing about these devices. Still not seeing any advertisements or promotions at all here in the UK. At 600 puts this nexus in perspective price wise. I mean yeah the camera is amazing but the 400+ price difference would buy a decent DSLR. A DSLR that won't have an out of date phone attached to it after a years use either :/

    If this had come out a month ago, Nokia would have my money already.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    08-31-2013 08:49 AM
  5. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    Device search is a pro to Android too, so used to be limited by Bing, would be nice to see a Windows 8 style search with (Bing local scout etc) as an added feature.

    The Play store again, is better, giving developers opportunity to reply to user reviews and app videos! Catch up is needed here too.

    Don't think its all bad, iOS is as stale as ever and not seeing anything major in iOS7 that catches my eye. New Neon style icons are sickly and the aero style transparency looks a mess!

    Just wish things could move a little quicker. Mango seemed to bring a lot to the table fairly quickly, and most recent additions have been tweaks and frills (kids corner, rooms?). Just would be nice to see updates at system level a little more often.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    WanderingTraveler likes this.
    08-31-2013 09:01 AM
  6. WanderingTraveler's Avatar
    Device search is a pro to Android too, so used to be limited by Bing, would be nice to see a Windows 8 style search with (Bing local scout etc) as an added feature.

    The Play store again, is better, giving developers opportunity to reply to user reviews and app videos! Catch up is needed here too.

    Don't think its all bad, iOS is as stale as ever and not seeing anything major in iOS7 that catches my eye. New Neon style icons are sickly and the aero style transparency looks a mess!

    Just wish things could move a little quicker. Mango seemed to bring a lot to the table fairly quickly, and most recent additions have been tweaks and frills (kids corner, rooms?). Just would be nice to see updates at system level a little more often.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    The updates have been at OS-level.

    Unfortunately, they've been all about fixing bugs than adding features. C'est la vie.

    Waiting for GDR3 and WP8.1 for any feature parity.
    08-31-2013 09:14 AM
  7. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    The updates have been at OS-level.

    Unfortunately, they've been all about fixing bugs than adding features. C'est la vie.

    Waiting for GDR3 and WP8.1 for any feature parity.
    Which would be a great approach if they could afford to do it that way. Maybe financially they can, but it sucks for loyal users and who are constantly left behind, and will eventually go elsewhere.

    Tapatalk sent me a notification of this reply, push, arrived immediately. Welcome change.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    08-31-2013 09:21 AM
  8. bawboh86's Avatar
    So, I can agree with you on most points. I just don't understand the fascination with a notification center. I had Android phones from the OG Droid all the way up to the HTC One X (I think I had about 4 in between there). I have to say that live tiles do their job pretty well. The only times I have to update them myself is for the People Hub, but I don't want that updating too often anyways, as it would kill battery. But OP, you say that none of them update fast enough. I haven't seen that. I get a notification, I check it right away, or I wait a while, and there's a number, waiting on the tile. Are people watching their live tiles constantly to see how quickly they update?

    I digress. It's a personal preference thing, and I get that. I'm not trying to bash anyone for it, I just consider the live tile option to be more elegant. I'm sure I can just ignore whatever notification center gets added in.

    As for the rest of it, I'd love to see a folder/grouping option of some sort. We have it built in for games, why not give us the ability to make them ourselves? Hopefully that lands with 8.1 (I don't see anything about it being in GDR3).

    Multitasking is all right. I would like a way to close tasks in the multitask screen. I think that's supposed to be in GDR3.

    So yeah, I completely agree with everything but notification center. I understand it's a personal preference thing and not everyone wants it, but I see enough demand for it that MS really should put it in to get people to pay more attention to the platform. I just don't get why people want it so badly, I guess.
    08-31-2013 09:53 AM
  9. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    Used to think the same about tiles, I like the concept I think it works better for me, but they are not reliable enough and I think that's down to how they are implemented.

    Facebook for instance... I reenabled notifs for that weeks ago and until now am yet to receive a single toast or tile update. Maybe a dev can shed some more light on how it differs, but I'm under the impression on wp its an app function rather than at OS level? Would explain why older apps (that haven't been updated) are even more unreliable.

    Having everything set as push can be overbearing and a drain on battery, but the option should be there to make that work. I use so many apps and web services now for my work, that having at least those act as live as possible is pretty important.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    08-31-2013 10:02 AM
  10. bawboh86's Avatar
    Used to think the same about tiles, I like the concept I think it works better for me, but they are not reliable enough and I think that's down to how they are implemented.

    Facebook for instance... I reenabled notifs for that weeks ago and until now am yet to receive a single toast or tile update. Maybe a dev can shed some more light on how it differs, but I'm under the impression on wp its an app function rather than at OS level? Would explain why older apps (that haven't been updated) are even more unreliable.

    Having everything set as push can be overbearing and a drain on battery, but the option should be there to make that work. I use so many apps and web services now for my work, that having at least those act as live as possible is pretty important.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    I don't use the FB app, so I can't comment on that. If you're having a problem with it, I'd say hit up the dev... Oh wait, that's MS. >_<

    Like I said, it's a preference thing. I see nothing wrong with more options, especially when it comes to something important like getting all your notifications (no sarcasm here: I run a business and need my emails to show up). For those of you that need it more than I, I sincerely hope it releases with GDR3. Getting more features isn't a bad thing, IMO. :)
    08-31-2013 10:17 AM
  11. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    Yep and whilst on the topic of email, big plus to wp here (something that does work well with push). I have gmail for the Play store but use exchange and outlook for my email. Android does have an outlook.com app, its OK but kinda weird being a metro style app within android, coming from WP of does feel like a badly skinned clone. The notifications don't show a preview of the mail which is my main beef, overall its ok and does the job, but WP's one app for all is a much nicer solution and a much nicer offering than any of the mail apps on the Nexus. Email WP win.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    bawboh86 likes this.
    08-31-2013 10:27 AM
  12. scottcraft's Avatar
    I really think/hope 8.1 addresses most of my current issues with WP. The platform is really pleasant to use and I think it has a ton of potential.
    08-31-2013 01:09 PM
  13. _X_'s Avatar
    Nexus4 this week after the big price drop.
    Not following you here, you've been away for a month or will be away for a month?

    I need a device from most platforms for my work, and already having an iPad this will fill the android gap. (Last android device I owned was the HTC Hero)
    The HTC Hero was what did caused me to jump ship from my BlackBerry to Android. I bought the phone for my wife only to find out it did much more than my blackberry did.

    Still much has changed since those days of Android to present day. Android os and the ecosystem as a whole have greatly matured.

    Whilst there is a ton of crap on android, and the frustrations of having too much customisation can be a distraction,
    This argument I just don't get. I've heard it plenty of times. Do people really have such little self control?


    Yep and whilst on the topic of email, big plus to wp here (something that does work well with push). I have gmail for the Play store but use exchange and outlook for my email. Android does have an outlook.com app,...
    Out of the box android does this really bad. I'm surprised any mobile platform would be so bad. Android Gmail is very good, but still its only good for folks that use Gmail.

    I don't like the fact that folks have to hunt around for a good email solution.

    The current email app has gotten much better to the point it's usable, but I've settled on "K9 Mail" which is far superior to anything I've used.

    I've used most major platforms even had a windows phone 6.5. It had a slew of excellent features but was buggy as hell. Which is why it left the platform. The new wp lost many of the features that made wp attractive to me on the first place. I've been keeping an eye out and it seems as the platform matures they are adding more features back into the platform.

    Question how does wp handle security? Like accessing personal contacts?
    sHAYM4N likes this.
    08-31-2013 02:39 PM
  14. FinancialP's Avatar
    I'm in a similar situation. I shattered the screen on my 8X a couple of months ago so I've been using my Android until I get something to replace it. At this point I don't see me going back to WP until 8.1 is released. There are too many things Android does better for me. I do miss the camera button and keyboard though.
    Check this out:
    imageuploadedbytapatalk1377975745.943938.jpg
    08-31-2013 03:02 PM
  15. scottcraft's Avatar
    Check this out:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm currently using swift key on my tablet and phone. I've tried many keyboards and none of them seem as good as the WP keyboard to me.
    08-31-2013 06:26 PM
  16. _X_'s Avatar
    I'm currently using swift key on my tablet and phone. I've tried many keyboards and none of them seem as good as the WP keyboard to me.
    That's because you haven't tried 8pen. :0
    Attached Thumbnails uploadfromtaptalk1378005040127.jpg  
    08-31-2013 11:13 PM
  17. scottcraft's Avatar
    That's because you haven't tried 8pen. :0
    No, I've never tried that one. I assume it works well once you get used to it?
    08-31-2013 11:26 PM
  18. _X_'s Avatar
    I was pulling you leg.

    But when it first came out last year I tried it in earnest. It took me three weeks to get efficient with it. Those three weeks were painful. After that I could type without looking at the keyboard or screen. Was cool taking notes and texting. But then they changed the layout because the original layout was not properly optimized.

    The new layout is better but I could never take the time to relearn again it was much harder because I kept on using the old layout.


    Today I use SwiftKey and Swype. For smaller screen Swype is awesome for larger screens like my Note2 SwiftKey is just as good.
    08-31-2013 11:56 PM
  19. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I think these points vary greatly by personal use, and while I appreciate customization, I don't really care to say "add everything and let people decide," simply because it leads to the bloating of Android that I would rather avoid. I would rather see most of the complaints (such as a notification center) provided through an app, rather than being a system feature that cannot be uninstalled. To cover all of your points, though:

    Notifications: As I said, I'd rather not have a baked-in option here. I simply do not use a large number of applications, so live tiles serve more than enough purpose for me. The only applications I care to get notification alerts from are when I have school e-mails, missed calls, or missed texts. All of these are tiles on my start screen, and all 3 also leave lockscreen notifications, so I have no need for a notification center. With Android, I simply not stand the notification system. With the pre-installed garbage from Android, I constantly had update notifications popping up for things like Facebook and twitter and so on, all of which could not be uninstalled without rooting. Having update notifications for applications I do not wish to update annoyed me greatly. Having a notification icon for something I have reported by a live tile AND a lockscreen would be superfluous and, honestly, a bit annoying. Yes, an option to turn the feature off would suffice, but I again say that I'd rather not bloat the OS with optional features galore, to where new users have to spend 2 hours going through it all and turning things off and on. The OS takes up about 1.75 GB now, and when you have devices like the 8GB HTC 8X out in the wild, storage is at a premium, so I'd rather not see the OS increasing in size to accommodate optional changes too much.

    Deeper Integration: I'm not really sure what this refers to, so I cannot comment.

    Games: This point you make doesn't make much sense, in my opinion. Regardless of the popularity of Xbox-branded gaming among developers, its presence adds some level of interest and replayability to games. Android does not offer an alternative service, so there's nothing to say "this Windows Phone feature is inferior" about. The existence of the Games hub alone is a great thing though, in my opinion. It lessens the app drawer clutter and helps cater to those who primarily use their phone for gaming, rather than social networking, such as myself. Having the 15-20 games on my phone added to my app drawer would be a big headache to sift through, I think.

    Multitasking: I prefer the Windows Phone way for two reasons. Firstly, it prevents overconsumption of resources. On Android, you HAD to have an app killer to stop things. Even then, it was not guaranteed that apps would shut down (especially the pre-installed crapware), and the only solution was to go through each app and manually force close it on occasion (which didn't work, because apps would re-open themselves again). Unless you are attempting to do doctoral research through a BUNCH of different applications on your phone, I don't know how the 6-app limit on Windows Phone will hinder you.

    Modern/Metro: Design aesthetics are a matter of preference on visuals, which are subjective. I cannot argue them, beyond the simple statement that I think that the Windows Phone layout and UI is superior for functionality and ease, in my opinion.

    Folders: You can already accomplish this on Windows Phone, if you think about it. I believe there are apps that can do this (grouping of apps), but I might be wrong (might have been one of those conceptualized features from a user's ideas for 8.1). Regardless, the resizing of tiles can accomplish this task. For example, I put my Games hub as a 2x2 tile on the left side of my screen. On the immediate right, I have 4 of my favorite games (Uno & Friends, Halo: Spartan Assault, NBA Jam, and Wordament) as 1x1 tiles. This gives the effect of a Games hub and preferred options with it. In a similar manner, I have a 2x2 tile of my Music hub, with 1x1 tiles of ScrobbleMe (for play counts on last.fm) and Stop Music (to clear the Now Playing cache) next to it. The simple grouping and resizing of tiles provides an adequate "folder-style" experience for me.

    All of your points are valid for your usage habits, but they are not universal (similarly, mine are not). OS evaluation is very-much on a case-by-case basis, and I have to say that I don't miss anything from Android with my 920, so far. I never had much of a positive experience with my Droid Incredible.
    Impulsive_Mulia and sHAYM4N like this.
    09-01-2013 02:27 AM
  20. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    Big plus for WP in pinning from apps. Just starting to miss that. Off on a small hike this afternoon, on a WP I'd find a route on trailhead, pin it to my start screen then good to go for the afternoon. I miss that.

    Another keyboard point, smilies, miss them, so used to using them, its weird not having that button there! : (

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    09-01-2013 06:05 AM
  21. mogelijk's Avatar
    I'm sorry, but trying to compare a Droid Incredible to a 920 is about like comparing a Nexus 4 to a HTC HD7 -- both OSes have evolved significantly over the last three years.

    While I understand some of your complaints about Notifications, I think it is funny that Groupon thinks I want their notifications, but the fact is that they are easily turned off. In terms of the mentioned Groupon app, like most apps, it is a simple change in the app settings. Beyond that, if you don't want to mess with the app settings, turning off notifications, on an app by app basis, is built directly into Android.

    As for multitasking, it works quite well in the newer versions of Android -- to the point that using an app killer is counterproductive. Pretty much all Android phones, at least the ones that users don't have an option of upgrading away from (that are on contract in the US), should be running at least version 4.0 of Android (which is almost two years old) -- and most of them should have an option to upgrade to Jellybean (which is over a year old). You can also control what apps run at startup, which should allow you to keep your bloatware from running. It appears Google is trying to go a step further, to build an option into Android that allows the user to control the permissions each app has -- it is built into Android 4.3 but there is no built in user interface to access these controls, though you can download apps that give you that interface.

    I'll agree that it is a flaw that Android allows carriers/manufacturers to bundle apps that cannot be removed. At the same time, most bloatware (unless on a low end phone, where it can eat up valuable storage) can typically be safely ignored and doesn't effect the operation of the phone in the least. You also have the option of buying a Nexus (or other phone from Google Play) which won't have bloatware and will get Android updates as they are released.

    We could have a long discussion on the pros and cons of Windows Phone vs. Android, but we'd merely be repeating what has already been debated ad nauseum here.

    I'll agree that different users want/need different features. Having said that, it seems an overwhelming percentage want notifications -- it is part of the reason it was added to iOS (with iOS 5) and is rumored to be one of the new features in WP 8.1. Unfortunately, no phone OS is perfect. My hope is that WP, iOS and Android all keep pushing each other, forcing each of them to keep improving. I also hope people will quit believing there is a "perfect OS", and realize that each has benefits and detriments and which works best depends on the user and how they use their phone. I also would hope people would realize that just because on phone OS was best for them on their last phone, it doesn't mean it is still the best phone OS for them to use.
    Impulsive_Mulia, tgp, _X_ and 1 others like this.
    09-01-2013 12:14 PM
  22. FinancialP's Avatar
    Big plus for WP in pinning from apps. Just starting to miss that. Off on a small hike this afternoon, on a WP I'd find a route on trailhead, pin it to my start screen then good to go for the afternoon. I miss that.

    Another keyboard point, smilies, miss them, so used to using them, its weird not having that button there! : (

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    Huh? Turn on emoji in the settings.
    09-01-2013 01:08 PM
  23. _X_'s Avatar

    Multitasking: I prefer the Windows Phone way for two reasons. Firstly, it prevents overconsumption of resources. On Android, you HAD to have an app killer to stop things. Even then, it was not guaranteed that apps would shut down (especially the pre-installed crapware), and the only solution was to go through each app and manually force close it on occasion (which didn't work, because apps would re-open themselves again). Unless you are attempting to do doctoral research through a BUNCH of different applications on your phone, I don't know how the 6-app limit on Windows Phone will hinder you.
    Let's be honest with each other here, currently all mobile phone stink at multitasking. So the discussion she not be about which is better but what sucks less.

    Actually I think BlackBerry might have done it right on BB10.

    Your comments on Android multitasking are incorrect. android does not multitask that way. Nor does it handles concurrency that way.

    Android like iOS use cooperative time slicing for apps, when they are in the background they quit using cpu resources just memory. The os the determines when the to free the memory. You don't ever need to close an app. I get it old habits die hard.
    Honestly I don't think you're really talking about multitasking but really concurrency. Where an app or apps can share cpu time.

    Here it think Android did it the best. Android 's design forces the developer to handle concurrency for their own apps. While it does require more work for the developer it does make for a smooth user experience.
    Often I can encode files, transfer files, or render pictures in the background while using the same app that kicked off the process or even another app.

    In the Windows world having the os dictate which apps gets suspended can interrupt a task that was purposely push to the background by the user.

    For users who require little concurrency and multitasking windows is fine but for user that want more will enjoy android solution.
    broar94 likes this.
    09-01-2013 01:51 PM
  24. sHAYM4N's Avatar
    Great point _x_ and definitely something ive noticed already with the switch. Uploading a Facebook vid I can carry on with what I will want to do. Often wp will halt these things AW soon as an app is pushed to the background. Its a welcome change.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
    09-01-2013 01:56 PM
  25. scottcraft's Avatar
    I was pulling you leg.

    But when it first came out last year I tried it in earnest. It took me three weeks to get efficient with it. Those three weeks were painful. After that I could type without looking at the keyboard or screen. Was cool taking notes and texting. But then they changed the layout because the original layout was not properly optimized.

    The new layout is better but I could never take the time to relearn again it was much harder because I kept on using the old layout.


    Today I use SwiftKey and Swype. For smaller screen Swype is awesome for larger screens like my Note2 SwiftKey is just as good.
    It certainly looks difficult. I'm ok with SwiftKey, but I don't think it's as good as the WP keyboard.
    09-01-2013 04:37 PM
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