07-01-2014 05:15 AM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    Yes, and I already stated that was the case. But my point is that market was still a niche part of the cell phone market.

    Apple and Google turned that niche part of the cell phone market into mainstream and delivered it to the masses. Windows Mobile was a fart in the wind when that happened. As was blackberry and the others.

    So walking around talking about how Microsoft owned that market is pointless because the market Windows Mobile was a part of, essentially disappeared. It was reborn with a new definition. Therefore prior market holders didn't matter because their product didn't meet the criteria for the new definition of that market.
    I understand where you're coming from. Microsoft owned whatever market existed at the time. Had they stayed competitive, I would think they could have retained at least a significant part of it. They certainly had a bit of an edge on Apple & Google, both of whom had zero market share. Microsoft dropped the proverbial ball, and now the likelihood of them getting back to be anywhere close to what they were is virtually nil. The only way I see it happening is to come up with some kind of disruptive technology. But Apple & Google are no slouches in the innovation department, and Microsoft has a tough job ahead.
    FinancialP likes this.
    06-16-2014 12:53 PM
  2. FinancialP's Avatar
    Yes, and I already stated that was the case. But my point is that market was still a niche part of the cell phone market.

    Apple and Google turned that niche part of the cell phone market into mainstream and delivered it to the masses. Windows Mobile was a fart in the wind when that happened. As was blackberry and the others.

    So walking around talking about how Microsoft owned that market is pointless because the market Windows Mobile was a part of, essentially disappeared. It was reborn with a new definition. Therefore prior market holders didn't matter because their product didn't meet the criteria for the new definition of that market.
    Cars were once a niche part of the market. That doesn't change the facts.


    Thanks to TGP for the eloquent explanation.
    06-16-2014 01:20 PM
  3. spaulagain's Avatar
    Cars were once a niche part of the market. That doesn't change the facts.


    Thanks to TGP for the eloquent explanation.
    Where the hell did I try to change the facts?

    All I'm saying is that Microsoft's market share with Windows Mobile is essentially irrelevant because the market had a massive reset that completely changed it's definition and characteristics.

    There are a **** ton of car companies that were around when cars were a "niche" market. But those companies are irrelevant in today's auto market because the market has changed so much and they no longer exist.
    06-16-2014 03:54 PM
  4. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Yeah. Just like I stated in my earlier post of this thread. People want to sweep Windows Mobile under the rug because it doesn't fit the argument. So let's pretend it didn't exist. Let's not include it.

    Sadly those of us that were around can't do that.

    No logical person will say Windows Phone is Microsoft's first pony in the rodeo.
    But I don't think that's what people are saying when they say Windows Phone is still relatively young. It's not young in Microsoft's history, sure, but it's young for this paradigm. One especially set by Apple. You may think it doesn't matter, but it's granular difference that does, at least to me.
    FinancialP likes this.
    06-16-2014 04:10 PM
  5. FinancialP's Avatar
    Where the hell did I try to change the facts?

    All I'm saying is that Microsoft's market share with Windows Mobile is essentially irrelevant because the market had a massive reset that completely changed it's definition and characteristics.
    By saying Microsoft's share with Windows Mobile is essentially irrelevant....

    Microsoft was the smartphone leader.

    Like TGP said Microsoft dropped the proverbial ball. That's very relevant.

    There are a **** ton of car companies that were around when cars were a "niche" market. But those companies are irrelevant in today's auto market because the market has changed so much and they no longer exist.
    So Ford is irrelevant now?

    No offense but don't take this stuff personal.
    06-16-2014 04:16 PM
  6. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    T
    My point is Microsoft isn't new to the Marketplace. They have been here, they owned it. They just let it go as it wasn't the bread winner.
    Heh it's like you want to gloss over the new precedent Apple set when it first introduced the iPhone. Of course MS more or less dominated, they helped push it during the early 2000's. But you can't say it was poor planning because who was the majority people buying those types of devices? It wasn't some small time Joe in middle America. It was most likely business people, IT people, and tech enthusiasts. MS had no reasonable belief to even think about the small time consumer because the majority of the customers at the time were giving them feedback on what they wanted in devices to do work. More importantly the internet was still culling and developing until it's real explosion around 2007.

    Then Apple came around and said to everyone, "Why limit this to work? You should be doing bull**** on these devices" Hence, here we are and even why MS tried to recover with Mobile 6.5.

    There was no poor planning because things were so different. It's like blaming MS for poor planning with SPOT watches and tablet PCs when really they were just ahead of the curve during their time. Much like Apple with the Newton.
    06-16-2014 04:22 PM
  7. FinancialP's Avatar
    Heh it's like you want to gloss over the new precedent Apple set when it first introduced the iPhone. Of course MS more or less dominated, they helped push it during the early 2000's. But you can't say it was poor planning because who was the majority people buying those types of devices? It wasn't some small time Joe in middle America. It was most likely business people, IT people, and tech enthusiasts. MS had no reasonable belief to even think about the small time consumer because the majority of the customers at the time were giving them feedback on what they wanted in devices to do work. More importantly the internet was still culling and developing until it's real explosion around 2007.

    Then Apple came around and said to everyone, "Why limit this to work? You should be doing bull**** on these devices" Hence, here we are and even why MS tried to recover with Mobile 6.5.

    There was no poor planning because things were so different. It's like blaming MS for poor planning with SPOT watches and tablet PCs when really they were just ahead of the curve during their time. Much like Apple with the Newton.
    And I can't disagree with you at all.

    However from 2007-2010 that's poor planning. Windows Phone 7 was very poor planning.

    The MSN smart watches were very poorly planned. We had to pay a monthly subscription to receive late information. I had one. Loved it tho.

    Good points.
    06-16-2014 04:26 PM
  8. spaulagain's Avatar
    By saying Microsoft's share with Windows Mobile is essentially irrelevant....

    Microsoft was the smartphone leader.

    Like TGP said Microsoft dropped the proverbial ball. That's very relevant.



    So Ford is irrelevant now?

    No offense but don't take this stuff personal.
    Everybody dropped the ball. The entire list of "smartphone" companies you mentioned, Palm, Blackberry, Windows, etc. completely lost their market share almost overnight.

    Apple completely reinvented that market when they launched the iPhone. Even Google wasn't ready for it. Hell, the first couple versions of Android were a joke compared to the iPhone.

    It's like when Ford reinvented the auto market with their mass produced, mass market automobile manufacturing. Companies like Mercedes had been doing cars for a while. But their existing product and methods were turned upside down by Fords lineup. The fact that they once owned the market didn't make a difference at that point. They had to reinvent themselves to compete. I don't think those companies "dropped the ball," they were just shell shocked by a new innovative company. That happens in business. And it's a good thing.

    My point is that while Microsoft owned that little niche market at one point, it has no impact on today's market because today's market is so radically different from when WM was king.

    ******** about Microsoft dropping the ball is frivolous. Because everyone in that market was out done by Apples new injection into the market.
    06-16-2014 04:29 PM
  9. FinancialP's Avatar
    Everybody dropped the ball. The entire list of "smartphone" companies you mentioned, Palm, Blackberry, Windows, etc. completely lost their market share almost overnight.

    Apple completely reinvented that market when they launched the iPhone. Even Google wasn't ready for it. Hell, the first couple versions of Android were a joke compared to the iPhone.

    It's like when Ford reinvented the auto market with their mass produced, mass market automobile manufacturing. Companies like Mercedes had been doing cars for a while. But their existing product and methods were turned upside down by Fords lineup. The fact that they once owned the market didn't make a difference at that point. They had to reinvent themselves to compete. I don't think those companies "dropped the ball," they were just shell shocked by a new innovative company. That happens in business. And it's a good thing.

    My point is that while Microsoft owned that little niche market at one point, it has no impact on today's market because today's market is so radically different from when WM was king.

    ******** about Microsoft dropping the ball is frivolous. Because everyone in that market was out done by Apples new injection into the market.
    With that explanation, I think you've won me over. Everyone did drop the ball.
    spaulagain likes this.
    06-16-2014 04:48 PM
  10. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    What Apple did was bring innovative marketing to the party. Microsoft had been working on similar product. Steve Jobs emphasized what's the use of a good product if no one knows about it. The iPod changed a basic MP3 player into a cultural icon. Zune was a better piece of hardware in every way but no one knew about it.
    tgp likes this.
    06-16-2014 05:12 PM
  11. spaulagain's Avatar
    What Apple did was bring innovative marketing to the party. Microsoft had been working on similar product. Steve Jobs emphasized what's the use of a good product if no one knows about it. The iPod changed a basic MP3 player into a cultural icon. Zune was a better piece of hardware in every way but no one knew about it.
    Apple does have brilliant marketing which makes up half their success. But the iPhone changed the market because it made an advanced OS very accessible with an excellent touch interface. That's really what made it accessible and appealing to the masses.

    Microsoft had been dilly dallying in that segment with WM. And the Zune was working closer towards a touch friendly OS. But as much as I hate to admit it, Apple broke the back of the smartphone market and showed everyone how it's done. There was more than just marketing with the success of that product launch.

    I went to Europe to study abroad right after it launched. One of my colleagues got one and took it to Europe with us. People everywhere flocked to look at it because it really was that big of a game changer.
    FinancialP and chezm like this.
    06-16-2014 10:51 PM
  12. Maitrikkataria's Avatar
    Bias argument with no point to back it up. Both are great OSes with the iOS8 having an advantage with the actionable notifications.
    Agreed, no OS could be an absolute failure. They are always developed considering something.
    07-01-2014 04:36 AM
  13. Rad Matic's Avatar
    $55 vs $600 is the big difference.
    07-01-2014 05:15 AM
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