07-04-2014 01:10 PM
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  1. twint7787's Avatar
    That last post was not meant to sound passive aggressive. I just don't understand why you would post this. I also agree that WP apps are lacking. However my experience with Android was different than yours. The customization was only skin deep and once you got through that superficial layer it made everything look like a mess.
    07-02-2014 11:39 PM
  2. twint7787's Avatar
    Yeah I guess because windows phone has been around for a while. Its lack of customization is kind of well known at this point so to say that you didn't know that is a little surprising I guess.
    07-02-2014 11:42 PM
  3. Slayix312's Avatar
    That last post was not meant to sound passive aggressive. I just don't understand why you would post this. I also agree that WP apps are lacking. However my experience with Android was different than yours. The customization was only skin deep and once you got through that superficial layer it made everything look like a mess.
    It depends how you customize it. I posted a pic of how my current home-screen looks in the first half of this thread. Although you can't tell; I am running a custom rom, kernel, animations, OC'd, etc...etc... I have added many modules via xposed that add privacy and some others to add several gestures. That screen that looks relatively clean is far more powerful than anything I can do on WP given the same UI. Hardly superficial; more like exceptionally functional and IMO it looks far less messy than all the boxy tiles flipping around everywhere on my Icon. I like the 'cleanness'of a customized Android homescreen.

    Edit: Also yeah like I said; I knew WP wasn't going to be super customizable or anything, but I didn't think it would lag so far behind even iOS which is typically considered a "walled garden".
    07-02-2014 11:46 PM
  4. altafmahmood's Avatar
    Although you made such nice points about customizing but believe me its a real pain in the *** for us non tech guys to go through custom ROMs and other stuffs.
    Windows phone is not so much customizable but what it does have is enough for most users and hence they choose it. According to me it is rather simple and clean. And believe me windows phone is quite new with regards to iOS and Android hence you may not have that advancement. The analogy "My father is older than me hence knows more".
    As for app gap there is nothing much that can be done by Microsoft, its up to the developers.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    07-03-2014 12:21 AM
  5. Ian Too's Avatar
    This is a very good passive-aggressive post haha. I'll respond to all your points however.
    Hello Mr Pot, have you met Mr Kettle? :P

    I'd have some respect if I thought you had the ability to be unbiased or if you really were presenting your views as merely that, but your not are you? If you were you'd have given WP more than a week and would've allowed yourself to adapt to a different way of doing things.

    1. In that case it is fair game to compare WP 8.1 to Android L than since kit-kat is "soon to be replaced" as well.
    Over a million users are currently using WP8.1 and is Kit-Kat being replaced in something like the next month?

    2. None of the points I made would have changed with 8.1. The apps selection is bad and the app quality is bad, and the customization is horrible. These don't get significantly better with 8.1. At least compared to Android.
    The customization is better in WP8.1 than WP8, so that's a change and like a lot of things on WP, though modest has a surprisingly marked effect. Also the customization comes from the apps, my calendar app allows me to chose how many of the next appointments I see. That's true for every app in that by choosing the size of the tile, I chose how much information is fed to me.

    3. I am not installing the 8.1 developer preview because this is a work-phone and I don't think my company would appreciate me voiding the warranty.
    Fine, but the comparison is still unbalanced.

    Um..a lot? Even the SGS2 got 4.1 and it started at 2.3. HTC One's have had about the same level of support. 2 year support isn't that impressive.
    Then how come Android is so fragmented?

    Yeah re-sizing tiles and changing the background says a lot about me, but changing my ROM, custom recovery; changing my boot-animation and down-animation. Changing my launcher, notification bar, color scheme, clock display, etc...etc... All say A LOT MORE about me. WP 8 or 8.1 isn't anywhere within 5 ball-parks of Android customization regardless of how much time you spend on it.
    Yes, but these are very geeky things a tiny tiny proportion of users can or would want to do. Most people have lives to lead and buy smart phones to serve their needs, not as toys or status synbols. Your usage model is highly peculiar. I used to do those things when I used Windows Mobile, now when I want to play I play Mass Effect. My device is for work, I want it to do what I want, when I want and be reliable. I don't want to tinker, I have better things to do.

    I keep my home-screen empty because I don't like it cluttered. I could have my Google now widget and Blinkfeed widget showing me everything I need to if need-be. My Google now widget could show me how long I can expect my commute home to be after work. It can show me all upcoming appoints on my calendars and reminders. It can show me any interesting stories I have previously read about that I would like to know more about. Far more robust than what you are showing.
    Your screen shows lots of dead space. It amazes me that your screen is really just a smaller version of a desktop, as if you were still using a mouse. The desktop is an analogy introduced to make it easier for people to navigate through unfamiliar digital spaces and like any analogy, it only serves up to the point beyond which it breaks down. There is no reason to assume the spacial paradigm is the only or most efficient way to represent information space, after all it restricts you to two dimensions in discrete screen-sized chunks.

    Probably to avoid patent troubles, Microsoft tried a fresh approach with a dynamic UI - a real paradigm shift you haven't even begun to appreciate though even Android and iOS has started to imitate it stylistically, so it can't be as bad as you say. Whatsmore, the live tiles idea has potential, for instance I've already seen demonstrations of interactive tiles, so you won't even have to open an app to get functionality.

    iOS and Android are still restricted by this old paradigm, which means that although your device aggregates the information you want, you still have to act before you learn anything, whereas WP presents you with information all the time and you only have to act if something peeks your interest.

    What do you mean Google Play Store isn't available in all markets? The only thing Google play is not available on is in highly modified versions of Android like those found on the Kindle, and thus it is up to Amazon to provide said protection. Also what do you mean apps are not "vetted" before they are published? Apps are automatically scanned when uploaded to the play store for any malicious algorithms and it does a superb job the majority of the time.
    My bad, I was under the impression Google Play was not available in places like China, but in fact it's only censored. Of course, if an OEM decides not to pay for Google services, the Play store is unavailable to those users. It's a small percentage of course, but still cause for concern. I'm afraid I can't share your 'I'm all right Jack' attitude and blame people for poor decisions. It's only rational to do that where it's reasonable to expect people to have the knowledge. Digital space is still new and if you and I haven't fully appreciated the potential and dangers, how can we expect people with no interest in the field to do so?

    Regarding apps not being vetted, my information might be out of date, but as I understand it, apps are not vetted before being published to the Play store. However, once an app is published, it is subject to scanning by robots, which trawl the Play store. If I am out of date, please supply a link.

    Also, I am hardly reassured by your phrase 'majority of the time'. The Maginot Line only covered the 'majority of the border' between France and Germany, look how useful that was.

    As you stated; it is a very small number of Android smartphones that is infected and Google keeps adding more security every major Android release. I would MUCH rather have an open environment and let users decide what to download and what not to download. If a couple of idiots get infected oh-well. You will always have idiots on any platform; yet we don't blame Google for someone downloading a Trojan on Windows 7 do we?
    What I stated was that there was an infection rate of .25%, according to an independent study; that's a quarter of a million crimes. In exactly which fantasy land is a 250,000 crimes a small or insignificant amount? As I explained above your stance on this is irrational, it's also careless and immoral.

    If they do that than it would be pretty damn impressive because they would have gone past Android's sandboxing. Which means WP 8 - 8.1 users and iOS users should be just as fearful as they won't be safe if methods have been developed to pass this. So I am not sure why you are saying iOS and WP will be safe.
    I did say why: herd immunity. In medicine, a vaccine will only give an individual 75% or so protection(it varies from vaccine to vaccine), but because the whole population is vaccinated the virus can't spread far before it is blocked, thereby protecting the whole population, especially those like newborns who cannot be vaccinated. It's why anti-vaccination kooks are so dangerous, there have already been increases and fatalities from pertussis for instance.

    The analogy, applied to OSs in general show .25% representing quite a substantial population from which an infection can spread. The previous accepted estimate was .0009%, so the new one is an increase by a factor of 277. If that rate of increase were to continue, 70% of Android devices would be infected within months. By comparison, the population of infected WP is too small to measure.

    I don't trust or distrust Google any less/more than I do Microsoft.
    I made this decision over a decade ago, before Android even existed and I had to choose who to trust my data with. I went with Microsoft on the assumption that being mainly an enterprise company, they would have to be geared to business' need for confidentiality. Microsoft would stand to lose an awful lot of custom were that confidentiality to be breached, so they would have to be geared up to safeguard the information their systems were entrusted with and so I opted for MS products and services before Google had any equivalents to offer.

    When Android first came along I was intrigued, Google at that point were little more than a search engine and one I was a great fan of, but I was saved by being tied an iPhone and having all sorts of problems trying to get the thing to meet my needs, to the point that I had to carry my Windows Mobile as well.

    Then all sorts of worrying headlines started to appear about invasions of privacy Google were committing, like publishing Street View pictures showing people without blanking out their faces. It took legislators to intercede to curb this irresponsible behaviour and it became clear to me that far from 'do no evil' Google's real motto was 'do what you can get away with.'

    It was only as a result of public criticism that Google started scanning apps in the app store. I have watched the growth of Android and Google and witnessed the ongoing controversy around it business practices and the piecemeal and incoherent way new security features have been grafted into the ecosystem. Compared to iOS and Windows Phone, Android is very haphazard.

    Another thing that really gives me the creeps is that Android devices routinely upload their position to Google, effectively putting you under surveillance. This is rationalised under the banner of convenience, but I wouldn't give that kind of information out willingly even to my friends, leave alone strangers. To me Google are the type of organisation we need to be wary of and I'm hardly alone.

    Microsoft btw is the company who purposefully input back-doors into outlook/skype, etc...

    Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages | World news | The Guardian
    I've only had time to briefly scan the article, but it has already got me puzzled by "Skype worked to enable Prism collection of video calls", because it makes no sense, given what PRISM actually is.

    Briefly, PRISM worked by physically intercepting the the data stream into data centres and duplicating it. One copy would be sent on and one copy would be stored by the NSA. This is similar to how a real prism is used in an interferometer, hence the name.

    My point is that PRISM worked independently of Microsoft or anyone else, they couldn't have helped the NSA even if they wanted to.

    Now I have the greatest respect for The Guardian, but unfortunately news media generally have been cutting back on science correspondents in particular, so these articles are often written by people who lack the detailed understanding of the subject. Steve Gibson's Security Now podcast is right now a necessity to keep up with security, even though he is an incurable Apple acolyte.

    Also, where MS claim they were legally compelled to comply, you can bet your bottom dollar that Google and Facebook were too.

    Hence why I use Android with multiple security features. ESET for device security, Xprivacy to regulate app permissions and avoid data collection, and PIA VPN.

    Attachment 70790
    Good for you, my 'I'm all right Jack' friend. You be the .0005% of people who has the knowledge to protect yourself while everyone else drowns. I simply cannot be so callous and smug. I have to point people in the direction of the best option for them, the one which best suits their needs as they are, not as they would be given a month's intensive training.

    While WP8.1 does support VPN, to be honest I'm still trying to get people to use secure and unique passwords, before I try to induct them into the complexities of that.

    I have no problem with your stance if there wasn't the implication that Android were universally the best option, but for the VAST majority a closed ecosystem is a necessity because they need to be protected from their own poor decisions. Digital security needs to be universal and automatic, not an expertise you have to master and enact. That is why Android is so hopelessly inadequate.
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    07-03-2014 08:36 AM
  6. anon(8938849)'s Avatar
    One point on customization: I flashed roms like crazy on my Android devices. As well as using xposed framework by default. I found it more frustrating than satisfying. Most things just made it look worse. I do wish Windows phone had a bit more customization options, but what it does have is better than any default Android ability. Since 90 something percent of people won't root, they're stuck with how their Android looks other than wallpaper and maybe a launcher. Being able to change the theme color system wide to match everything in an elegant way, as well as being able to choose between light and dark backgrounds system wide is more than most androids can do out of the box. Not to mention the ability to change the tiles from 2 columns to three, which would be equivalent to changing the grid size on Android, which you typically need a custom launcher to do.

    A fair comparison would be between stock Android and Windows phone, in which case Windows actually beats Android handedly in customization.
    altafmahmood and Karthik Naik like this.
    07-03-2014 10:53 AM
  7. twint7787's Avatar
    Are you saying that iOS is more customizable than WP? How? Third party keyboards are brand new but besides that it isn't anymore customizable than WP.
    All that tinkering you do with Android is a nice bonus if you are into it. I had a galaxy nexus and rooted it, threw on a really nice theme, but like I said it is only skin deep. There is something to be said when an entire OS looks and behaves the same through out. I like android a lot and I'll probably like it even more once material design gets fully flushed out because right now Android is ugly and all the customization ppl do to it are only superficial like I said. To each his own but your initial evaluation of WP is pretty biased. I can see the major pros in all operating systems and for right now I am choosing WP because design is important to me. I feel WP trumps all in this regard. I also don't use a truck load of apps because if I did I would probably be on IOS, and if I really wanted to customize I would have stuck with android.
    07-03-2014 11:27 AM
  8. Slayix312's Avatar
    Hello Mr Pot, have you met Mr Kettle? :P

    I'd have some respect if I thought you had the ability to be unbiased or if you really were presenting your views as merely that, but your not are you? If you were you'd have given WP more than a week and would've allowed yourself to adapt to a different way of doing things.
    Hello Kettle,

    Of course I was going to respond in-kind to your passive aggressiveness silly.

    Also a week is long enough to know the limitations of WP. I think I listed them clearly and explained WHY I came to those conclusions. If you think any of the factual statements I have made are wrong; please feel free to list them with an explanation of WHY I am wrong.

    Over a million users are currently using WP8.1 and is Kit-Kat being replaced in something like the next month?
    Actually yeah, probably. Early custom rom builds of Android L should start rolling out very shortly with the dev release of Android L. The modding community is pretty proactive when that happens.

    The customization is better in WP8.1 than WP8, so that's a change and like a lot of things on WP, though modest has a surprisingly marked effect. Also the customization comes from the apps, my calendar app allows me to chose how many of the next appointments I see. That's true for every app in that by choosing the size of the tile, I chose how much information is fed to me.
    Sure the customization is better compared to WP8; BUT terrible and not within 5 ballparks when compared to Android, and I made that point clear.

    Fine, but the comparison is still unbalanced.
    No it isn't, because none of the points I made are fixed with 8.1 as I already mentioned. Again; customization is still ****e in comparison to Android and not anywhere close.


    Then how come Android is so fragmented?
    Because Android is updated FAR more frequently than WP? Everything in the last 2 years has gotten at LEAST up to jellybean. Which is just behind kit-kat.

    Yes, but these are very geeky things a tiny tiny proportion of users can or would want to do. Most people have lives to lead and buy smart phones to serve their needs, not as toys or status synbols. Your usage model is highly peculiar. I used to do those things when I used Windows Mobile, now when I want to play I play Mass Effect. My device is for work, I want it to do what I want, when I want and be reliable. I don't want to tinker, I have better things to do.
    Obviously not that tiny because XDA is a massive developing community. Also my personal device is for enjoyment AND work. I can have my M8 open my garage door when I am within 500ft of my house if I wanted to actually do it. With my custom rom I can also record my screen and send the video to friends to show them how to access certain things on their phones or how to fix something. I can go on and on. Customizing my "toy" Android makes it far more functional than any WP "device for work" that you have.

    Your screen shows lots of dead space. It amazes me that your screen is really just a smaller version of a desktop, as if you were still using a mouse. The desktop is an analogy introduced to make it easier for people to navigate through unfamiliar digital spaces and like any analogy, it only serves up to the point beyond which it breaks down. There is no reason to assume the spacial paradigm is the only or most efficient way to represent information space, after all it restricts you to two dimensions in discrete screen-sized chunks.
    I know; its amazing that I can do more things with that "dead space" than you can do on your WP from your home-screen right? That was essentially my point.

    Probably to avoid patent troubles, Microsoft tried a fresh approach with a dynamic UI - a real paradigm shift you haven't even begun to appreciate though even Android and iOS has started to imitate it stylistically, so it can't be as bad as you say. Whatsmore, the live tiles idea has potential, for instance I've already seen demonstrations of interactive tiles, so you won't even have to open an app to get functionality.
    Imitated it stylistically? Really? All I see is WP getting notification "center" a.k.a the thing that Android has had since its inception.

    iOS and Android are still restricted by this old paradigm, which means that although your device aggregates the information you want, you still have to act before you learn anything, whereas WP presents you with information all the time and you only have to act if something peeks your interest.
    Really? Because I don't have to do anything to see new information on a google now widget. I can interact with it when and only IF I want to.

    Regarding apps not being vetted, my information might be out of date, but as I understand it, apps are not vetted before being published to the Play store. However, once an app is published, it is subject to scanning by robots, which trawl the Play store. If I am out of date, please supply a link.
    Yes apps are scanned WHEN they are BEING uploaded to the google play store. Thus if they have malware they will never be listed. Google play store now even scans SIDELOADED apps which is a MAJOR deal in combating malware. Sideloaded apps are by far the majority of where the Malware tradtionally came from.

    Also, I am hardly reassured by your phrase 'majority of the time'. The Maginot Line only covered the 'majority of the border' between France and Germany, look how useful that was.
    lolwut? Bad comparison is bad. The Maginot line was terrible because they stopped it at Belgium where the Germans flanked from. I didn't know Google play store app scanning stopped at some arbitrary spot lol.


    I did say why: herd immunity. In medicine, a vaccine will only give an individual 75% or so protection(it varies from vaccine to vaccine), but because the whole population is vaccinated the virus can't spread far before it is blocked, thereby protecting the whole population, especially those like newborns who cannot be vaccinated. It's why anti-vaccination kooks are so dangerous, there have already been increases and fatalities from pertussis for instance.

    The analogy, applied to OSs in general show .25% representing quite a substantial population from which an infection can spread. The previous accepted estimate was .0009%, so the new one is an increase by a factor of 277. If that rate of increase were to continue, 70% of Android devices would be infected within months. By comparison, the population of infected WP is too small to measure.
    Yeah I know you said why; it is just a silly made up fantasy with no merit in this regards considering no present way is available to by-pass Android's sandboxing. Until someone figures out how to do this; than this comment is meaningless.

    Another thing that really gives me the creeps is that Android devices routinely upload their position to Google, effectively putting you under surveillance. This is rationalised under the banner of convenience, but I wouldn't give that kind of information out willingly even to my friends, leave alone strangers. To me Google are the type of organisation we need to be wary of and I'm hardly alone.
    You can turn off google location services OFF, and you can use Xprivacy to ENSURE it stays off or feed it false data. Another thing not available on WP.


    I've only had time to briefly scan the article, but it has already got me puzzled by "Skype worked to enable Prism collection of video calls", because it makes no sense, given what PRISM actually is.

    Briefly, PRISM worked by physically intercepting the the data stream into data centres and duplicating it. One copy would be sent on and one copy would be stored by the NSA. This is similar to how a real prism is used in an interferometer, hence the name.

    Why doesn't Prism collecting video calls make sense? Even in the corporate world companies use secure VMRs for sensitive meetings. I know; because I work in that field. Not exactly sure why that seems far-fetched too you.

    My point is that PRISM worked independently of Microsoft or anyone else, they couldn't have helped the NSA even if they wanted to.

    Now I have the greatest respect for The Guardian, but unfortunately news media generally have been cutting back on science correspondents in particular, so these articles are often written by people who lack the detailed understanding of the subject. Steve Gibson's Security Now podcast is right now a necessity to keep up with security, even though he is an incurable Apple acolyte
    .


    Sorry but the same information has come up from MULTIPLE sources including German IT firms.

    Microsoft Windows 8 NSA back door alleged | BGR

    Microsoft CLEARLY helped the NSA.

    Also, where MS claim they were legally compelled to comply, you can bet your bottom dollar that Google and Facebook were too.
    I'm not saying they don't. MY POINT was that you made Microsoft sound like some kind of security saints.

    See your previous comment:

    All of this ignores the biggest security breach of all: Google itself. The central tenet of security is TNO and yet you have, for the sake of convenience, decided to trust a for profit advertising company with all your personal information; allowing them to scan your emails, text messages, address books and even track your movements - all on the assumption that Saint Sergei and co never find anything nefarious to do.
    Microsoft is AT LEAST as bad as Google if not worse.

    Good for you, my 'I'm all right Jack' friend. You be the .0005% of people who has the knowledge to protect yourself while everyone else drowns. I simply cannot be so callous and smug. I have to point people in the direction of the best option for them, the one which best suits their needs as they are, not as they would be given a month's intensive training.
    Multiple warnings come up when you try to install an app from an unknown source. If people are idiots to press "ok" on all of them then that is on them. It has less to do with letting people "drown" and more to do with expecting people not to be stupid.

    I have no problem with your stance if there wasn't the implication that Android were universally the best option, but for the VAST majority a closed ecosystem is a necessity because they need to be protected from their own poor decisions. Digital security needs to be universal and automatic, not an expertise you have to master and enact. That is why Android is so hopelessly inadequate.
    Again; many screens come up that announce the danger of possibly downloading malware filled ads, and now with the google play store scanning even side-loaded apps that is even more protection. If someone bypasses all that then I am sure it is only a matter of years before Darwinism catches up to them anyway. You can't rid the world of mental illness.
    Last edited by Slayix312; 07-03-2014 at 02:08 PM.
    07-03-2014 12:37 PM
  9. Slayix312's Avatar
    Are you saying that iOS is more customizable than WP? How? Third party keyboards are brand new but besides that it isn't anymore customizable than WP.
    All that tinkering you do with Android is a nice bonus if you are into it. I had a galaxy nexus and rooted it, threw on a really nice theme, but like I said it is only skin deep. There is something to be said when an entire OS looks and behaves the same through out. I like android a lot and I'll probably like it even more once material design gets fully flushed out because right now Android is ugly and all the customization ppl do to it are only superficial like I said. To each his own but your initial evaluation of WP is pretty biased. I can see the major pros in all operating systems and for right now I am choosing WP because design is important to me. I feel WP trumps all in this regard. I also don't use a truck load of apps because if I did I would probably be on IOS, and if I really wanted to customize I would have stuck with android.
    Except it isn't just superficial and I already listed multiple ways of how the customization's on Android are actually functional. Go back up and look through the comments. Maybe it is superficial for you, but all the tweaks I do are made for functionality. If you like WP for its asthetic that is fine, but I have laid out multiple OBJECTIVE reasons for why Android is far more functional than WP.

    Also iOS is more customizable because it at LEAST allows jailbreaking. That alone puts it 100 steps ahead of WP. Especially with Cydia. Oh and yes the keyboard is a plus too I guess. Still I would take the ability to jailbreak over resizing tiles and changing your homescreen/lockscreen on WP. I had changing homescreen/lockscreen since my Palm Pre on WebOS.
    07-03-2014 12:41 PM
  10. chezm's Avatar
    From someone like me whos used all the major mobile OS's, and who has considered going back to Android...i do find the overall purpose of this thread to just point out WP is full of flaws or features not as full fledged as Android, and that Android is GREAT with no flaws to be found. While i can respect the level of discussion and detail involved throughout the thread defending both Android and WP, i find the TC to be way too biased to fairly present his opinions of WP to be legitimately equal to those of Android. While a lot of the positions he stands on are trying to seem unbiased and "equally tested", in the end one would conclude his opinion as mostly ignorance, sorry TC this is how i honestly feel from what I've read.

    Good luck with the HTC M8, which is a beautiful device, and the Android experience lending you to what works best for you.
    07-03-2014 01:16 PM
  11. twint7787's Avatar
    Except it isn't just superficial and I already listed multiple ways of how the customization's on Android are actually functional. Go back up and look through the comments. Maybe it is superficial for you, but all the tweaks I do are made for functionality. If you like WP for its asthetic that is fine, but I have laid out multiple OBJECTIVE reasons for why Android is far more functional than WP.

    Also iOS is more customizable because it at LEAST allows jailbreaking. That alone puts it 100 steps ahead of WP. Especially with Cydia. Oh and yes the keyboard is a plus too I guess. Still I would take the ability to jailbreak over resizing tiles and changing your homescreen/lockscreen on WP. I had changing homescreen/lockscreen since my Palm Pre on WebOS.
    Oh I'm not arguing about the functionality of your customizations; I'm arguing about the aesthetics of them. They are ugly.
    07-03-2014 01:19 PM
  12. Slayix312's Avatar
    From someone like me whos used all the major mobile OS's, and who has considered going back to Android...i do find the overall purpose of this thread to just point out WP is full of flaws or features not as full fledged as Android, and that Android is GREAT with no flaws to be found. While i can respect the level of discussion and detail involved throughout the thread defending both Android and WP, i find the TC to be way too biased to fairly present his opinions of WP to be legitimately equal to those of Android. While a lot of the positions he stands on are trying to seem unbiased and "equally tested", in the end one would conclude his opinion as mostly ignorance, sorry TC this is how i honestly feel from what I've read.

    Good luck with the HTC M8, which is a beautiful device, and the Android experience lending you to what works best for you.
    Sorry you feel that way. Although I did my best to sound unbiased while still presenting factual statements that I have yet to be corrected about. I thought a post like this would be inflammatory either way since many people get protective of their favorite OS' hence why I posted it in 'Phone Wars', and not in the Nokia Icon forum.

    I'll agree that I may be possibly being too biased (unwittingly) but facts are facts. If you think I made something up then feel free to present some sort of evidence or statement on why I am incorrect and I would be happy to respond.

    Oh I'm not arguing about the functionality of your customizations; I'm arguing about the aesthetics of them. They are ugly.
    Actually you did, see:


    and all the customization ppl do to it are only superficial like I said.
    That seems to heavily imply that you think it is not functional. Aesthetic customization's typically have HEAVY functional value as well. IE: Most top launchers on Android.
    07-03-2014 02:05 PM
  13. chezm's Avatar
    I don't feel you purposely made up stuff or made this thread to start arguments, you've got an opinion and I appreciate that part. And being harmfully opinionated on WP8, unlike some here I can agree with a lot of your points.

    With that said, you actually don't seem to have anything really positive to say about the OS...and while your opinion is yours, this is the WP forums (yes phone wars but still). You've got nothing positive to say about it (unless I missed something), so why post to only rant? That's my opinion.

    As I said, I'm considering Android after I'm absolutely fed up with WP (I'm slowly getting there, only been back for 2 months running 8.1 which is an improvement indeed ). More recently quick use of HTC M8 and the LG G3 reviews have me impressed.

    The fact you can't appreciate anything about WP leaves me feeling this thread is meh.
    07-03-2014 07:40 PM
  14. Slayix312's Avatar
    I don't feel you purposely made up stuff or made this thread to start arguments, you've got an opinion and I appreciate that part. And being harmfully opinionated on WP8, unlike some here I can agree with a lot of your points.

    With that said, you actually don't seem to have anything really positive to say about the OS...and while your opinion is yours, this is the WP forums (yes phone wars but still). You've got nothing positive to say about it (unless I missed something), so why post to only rant? That's my opinion.

    As I said, I'm considering Android after I'm absolutely fed up with WP (I'm slowly getting there, only been back for 2 months running 8.1 which is an improvement indeed ). More recently quick use of HTC M8 and the LG G3 reviews have me impressed.

    The fact you can't appreciate anything about WP leaves me feeling this thread is meh.
    Well I apologize if I am overtly negative. I am trying to be as level-headed as possible.

    You say I don't have a single good thing to say about WP. Which is somewhat true (besides it running on lower-end hardware well, probably), but if I said I liked anything else I would be lying.

    Its not just cause I am some Android fanboy either; if WP really had another cool feature that is exclusive to them or an area where they were superb in; I would ABSOLUTELY bring it up in their favor, but that isn't the case.

    I mean I HATE iOS for example, but I will give them MASSIVE amounts of credit for their app store being far more conducive to good developers. The swift development platform they announced this past WWDC will ensure they always have top-notch apps for the forseeable future. Many developed better than their Android counterparts even.

    Android evens it up though (or surpasses) iOS by having a more open OS with FAR more customization than any of the competition.

    WP however has terrible app selection, and the apps they do have are severely lacking compared to those on other platforms. It is even more sad that Microsoft doesn't fix Skype on their own platform compared to its iOS and Android counterpart.

    And unlike Android. WP doesn't have customization (or some other special X-factor) to fall-back on.

    WP doesn't even have the customization that iOS has (jailbreaking/Cydia) which is somewhat sad.

    So what is left for me to give them a huge amount of props for? I think that would just be dishonest to say I liked something if I really didn't.
    07-03-2014 08:20 PM
  15. z33dev33l's Avatar
    I gotta say, this is comical. First you compare Android and iOS in terms of quality apps. I've yet to use a quality app on Android and the one truly enjoyable game not available on my platform (Dark Meadows) only works on like three android phones because of fragmentation. I won't get into just how horrid HTC's hardware is in comparison to Nokia as to some degree that's opinion. Also, if you want all your data kept in some cloud bank for governments to prod at as they see fit then enjoy your Google apps. I've yet to see an app that's better on Android than Windows phone.
    07-03-2014 08:36 PM
  16. b0blight's Avatar
    Regarding this comparison, personally for me, I feel that there is no 'definite' answer to this argument, and no clear winner. I feel that regardless of which OS we choose, be it WP, iOS, Android, Sailfish, BB10, Ubuntu, Firefox, it is all our personal opinion. We may find that some features of a certain OS are better than the others, and so on and so forth. But really, to argue over which OS is the more 'superior' OS there is now is pointless, because every person has their own individual taste in mobile phones. Sure, we can argue the entire day over which may be better and what not, but it still boils down to our individual choice and taste.
    07-03-2014 08:45 PM
  17. anon(8938849)'s Avatar
    The quality of android apps is sub par. Every single app over used on both platforms is better looking, more elegant and works much better on WP, with the exception of one. Especially Skype. Skype on my WP works perfectly, my gf can barely use the android one. The apps windows phone does have appear to be a much higher quality than android. You're propping android up on the crutch of rooting and modding which most people don't do. Many of your points aren't facts just your opinions that you use to declare android superior.

    For example, its a fact that you can root an android phone; its not a fact that that makes android superior. Again, the visual customizations WP does have are more refined and unified through the system. WP hardware has pretty much caught up to android, and is passed iPhone, and the os is just as useful day to day. It comes down to taste.

    You are being intellectually dishonest by declaring WP a clear loser and basically saying it's useless. To be honest you've really only got one good point: the smaller number of apps. But even that isn't so cut and dry. If WP has all the apps I personally need, and at a higher quality, then that point goes to windows.
    07-03-2014 09:02 PM
  18. Slayix312's Avatar
    I gotta say, this is comical. First you compare Android and iOS in terms of quality apps. I've yet to use a quality app on Android and the one truly enjoyable game not available on my platform (Dark Meadows) only works on like three android phones because of fragmentation. I won't get into just how horrid HTC's hardware is in comparison to Nokia as to some degree that's opinion. Also, if you want all your data kept in some cloud bank for governments to prod at as they see fit then enjoy your Google apps. I've yet to see an app that's better on Android than Windows phone.
    lol it was hard to read this without laughing. Skype blows, no Voxer buisness, nothing close to the functionality of Tasker, IFTTT even stopped supporting WP, Spotify is significantly worse on WP (read the reviews even). The lack of apps on WP is endless and so are the crappy half-assed apps from devs. If Microsoft doesn't give enough of a crap about WP to make a decent Skype app why the hell should devs care? I don't blame them.

    Oh and btw the NSA already has all your data backed up for you so no need to worry about Google. All thanks to the backdoors Microsoft put in for them.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...tion-user-data

    But really, to argue over which OS is the more 'superior' OS there is now is pointless, because every person has their own individual taste in mobile phones. Sure, we can argue the entire day over which may be better and what not, but it still boils down to our individual choice and taste.
    I agree and I have said OVER AND OVER again that if you like WP for asthetic reasons or you have all the functionality you need with WP than more power to you. It is just a FACT that it is far more limited than Android however, and I have provided extensive reasoning behind it. No one has yet to counter with a fact on WHY my reasoning is wrong.

    The quality of android apps is sub par. Every single app over used on both platforms is better looking, more elegant and works much better on WP, with the exception of one. Especially Skype. Skype on my WP works perfectly, my gf can barely use the android one. The apps windows phone does have appear to be a much higher quality than android.

    lol nice try Steve Ballmer. I can see the much lower rating on the WP version of Skype compared to the Android version of Skype. I have both platforms right in front of my face. We can also compare how many threads there are that complain about Skype on both platforms if you want. Oh and I already mentioned above just SOME of the apps that blow on WP compared to Android. Let alone the big apps WP doesn't even have.

    WP app selection is such a joke that right now the top paid apps are mytube, hot tiles!, metrotube, flashlight +, and moliplayer pro.

    2 of those are youtube rip-offs and a flashlight app that is standard on all Android phones in the last 2 years.


    For example, its a fact that you can root an android phone; its not a fact that that makes android superior. Again, the visual customizations WP does have are more refined and unified through the system. WP hardware has pretty much caught up to android, and is passed iPhone, and the os is just as useful day to day. It comes down to taste.
    The fact that you have the OPTION to root your phone DOES in fact make it superior however. Unless we are living in a crazy world:

    having a choice > no choice

    That is pretty much objective.

    Not sure I have ever heard someone say, "WOW I SURE AM GLAD I HAVE NO CHOICE IN THIS MATTER!".
    Last edited by Slayix312; 07-03-2014 at 10:37 PM.
    07-03-2014 10:17 PM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    False;See:



    source: How To Take Care of Your Smartphone Battery the Right Way

    I'll take a MUCH more solid metal phone without the battery-killing inductive charging and low heat.



    It is MUCH better than the Icon's battery life so I don't even think you know what you are saying lol.

    Compare: Nokia Lumia Icon battery life test - GSMArena Blog

    vs

    HTC One (M8) battery life test - GSMArena Blog

    The HTC One M8 had almost 6 hours more talk-time. That is crazy.



    The GPU also had a 30%+ higher GPU clockspeed and higher RAM bandwidth besides the faster CPU clock.

    Just sayin.

    Edit: The HTC One M8 also got the fastest touchscreen response times of any flagship phone btw. So you really can't even argue that the Icon is faster in any way.

    It has crappier battery life, lower specifications (minus the camera), and a far more limited OS.

    The best thing going for it is the Camera and WPs performance on crappy low-end phones.
    I can't speak for Android or WP, but I used TouchStones on my webOS devices for a few years and my battery life didn't suffer. I loved that hockey puck!
    07-03-2014 11:55 PM
  20. Joaquim Reis's Avatar
    The OP is just a fanboy, so this thread should be "AT LEAST" closed.
    Yeah android is more customizable, but lags as hell (load your m8 with background apps running, and do the same on windows Phone and you will see which one lags). And i am not talking about screen response, but about OS response.
    Plus, you say that, in terms of security, windows Phone is at best equal to android. I had a hard time not to laugh while i was reading this. Since you keep talking about facts, tell me how much PERCENTAGE of windows Phone and android phones suffered from malware or hacking, and then have the guts to keep saying that they are equal, with those FACTS.
    Lumia icon has worse cpu and gpu than m8? Of course it has. Why? Because windows Phone is a MUCH MORE optimized system that does not require the amount of power android requires to be even usable (yes, because even with great hw it still lags. You just need to tell me how many threads do you want about android flagships lag complaints).
    About the apps i have nothing to say, as its know the problema with them, but even that is growing fast, with more and more apps everyday, although still not even near the android app number (even though i dont need 500 battery apps or 1000 flashlight apps on my store)
    Karthik Naik likes this.
    07-04-2014 12:56 AM
  21. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    The OP is just a fanboy, so this thread should be "AT LEAST" closed.
    Yeah android is more customizable, but lags as hell (load your m8 with background apps running, and do the same on windows Phone and you will see which one lags). And i am not talking about screen response, but about OS response.
    Plus, you say that, in terms of security, windows Phone is at best equal to android. I had a hard time not to laugh while i was reading this. Since you keep talking about facts, tell me how much PERCENTAGE of windows Phone and android phones suffered from malware or hacking, and then have the guts to keep saying that they are equal, with those FACTS.
    Lumia icon has worse cpu and gpu than m8? Of course it has. Why? Because windows Phone is a MUCH MORE optimized system that does not require the amount of power android requires to be even usable (yes, because even with great hw it still lags. You just need to tell me how many threads do you want about android flagships lag complaints).
    About the apps i have nothing to say, as its know the problema with them, but even that is growing fast, with more and more apps everyday, although still not even near the android app number (even though i dont need 500 battery apps or 1000 flashlight apps on my store)
    +100000000000000
    this comment is the best review ive seen in this thread
    sums up the exact situation!
    before people question my comment- i own a nexus 5,nexus 7,lumia 720,lumia 820,ipad 2,3,4 and recently a Z10 and i feel android while customisable is terrible as a phone os and fails to deliver what i expect from a phone
    sure google now is convenient to track flights etc and stuff but otherwise my phones of choice are my 720 and my z10,choice of tablet-ipad 2 and nexus 7
    07-04-2014 04:39 AM
  22. AG VK's Avatar
    The OP is just a fanboy, so this thread should be "AT LEAST" closed.
    Yeah android is more customizable, but lags as hell (load your m8 with background apps running, and do the same on windows Phone and you will see which one lags). And i am not talking about screen response, but about OS response.
    Plus, you say that, in terms of security, windows Phone is at best equal to android. I had a hard time not to laugh while i was reading this. Since you keep talking about facts, tell me how much PERCENTAGE of windows Phone and android phones suffered from malware or hacking, and then have the guts to keep saying that they are equal, with those FACTS.
    Lumia icon has worse cpu and gpu than m8? Of course it has. Why? Because windows Phone is a MUCH MORE optimized system that does not require the amount of power android requires to be even usable (yes, because even with great hw it still lags. You just need to tell me how many threads do you want about android flagships lag complaints).
    About the apps i have nothing to say, as its know the problema with them, but even that is growing fast, with more and more apps everyday, although still not even near the android app number (even though i dont need 500 battery apps or 1000 flashlight apps on my store)
    I don't know about that - I have in front of me two N5s and one Lumia 925 with WP8.1 DP. The Lumia is factory-fresh, purchased yesterday (Which was another laugh. There was an MS banner with absolutely no devices under it while next door the Google section with chromebooks and Nexus devices was packed. The Lumias were in a corner next to Karbonn and Micromax). One N5 runs Android 4.4.4 and the other is flashed to the L preview. Both these phones have the same apps loaded and synced and I carry each alternatively.

    L is the first Android upgrade I received which actually made my phone faster, just like WP8.1. I used to have 400-500 MB RAM free on the KK phone and now with L, I see around 700-800 MB free all the time. This phone does almost everything faster than the Lumia, which doesn't have a single app installed apart from those it came loaded with. Whether it was writing an email, sending an attachment, making a call, writing a text... I found that I could do all these things equally quickly or faster on Android compared to WP. I am not talking about smoothness or whatever WP has in this department, but the objective measures of "how long does it take to do X" definitely are faster on Android.

    I have been looking at WPcentral for a while and there are sufficient complaints of lagginess - this may be an app rather than an OS issue but that doesn't matter to a consumer.

    As far as security goes - I haven't heard of any real malware issues. There are many Android malware programs, of course, but every one of them requires a rooted phone and/or a sideload bypassing Google's malware scanner. Since the average consumer does not know nor care about either of these things, I conclude that it's not a real issue. Let me know when someone's bank account passwords get compromised or valuable date gets stolen - then you'll have a case.

    As far as the hardware - well, your argument makes no sense. If WP is SOOOO optimised for low-end devices, why do we have high-end devices at all? Shouldn't the L925 share the same internals as the L525 in that case? You fail to understand that certain apps and games will require a certain amount of CPU/GPU power, regardless of what the OS is doing. Why do some games work well on low-end Droids with 512 MB but not on similar WPs?
    07-04-2014 05:22 AM
  23. bijak_riyandi's Avatar
    As far as the hardware - well, your argument makes no sense. If WP is SOOOO optimised for low-end devices, why do we have high-end devices at all? Shouldn't the L925 share the same internals as the L525 in that case?
    *facepalm*
    07-04-2014 05:41 AM
  24. Joaquim Reis's Avatar
    I don't know about that - I have in front of me two N5s and one Lumia 925 with WP8.1 DP. The Lumia is factory-fresh, purchased yesterday (Which was another laugh. There was an MS banner with absolutely no devices under it while next door the Google section with chromebooks and Nexus devices was packed. The Lumias were in a corner next to Karbonn and Micromax). One N5 runs Android 4.4.4 and the other is flashed to the L preview. Both these phones have the same apps loaded and synced and I carry each alternatively.

    L is the first Android upgrade I received which actually made my phone faster, just like WP8.1. I used to have 400-500 MB RAM free on the KK phone and now with L, I see around 700-800 MB free all the time. This phone does almost everything faster than the Lumia, which doesn't have a single app installed apart from those it came loaded with. Whether it was writing an email, sending an attachment, making a call, writing a text... I found that I could do all these things equally quickly or faster on Android compared to WP. I am not talking about smoothness or whatever WP has in this department, but the objective measures of "how long does it take to do X" definitely are faster on Android.

    I have been looking at WPcentral for a while and there are sufficient complaints of lagginess - this may be an app rather than an OS issue but that doesn't matter to a consumer.

    As far as security goes - I haven't heard of any real malware issues. There are many Android malware programs, of course, but every one of them requires a rooted phone and/or a sideload bypassing Google's malware scanner. Since the average consumer does not know nor care about either of these things, I conclude that it's not a real issue. Let me know when someone's bank account passwords get compromised or valuable date gets stolen - then you'll have a case.

    As far as the hardware - well, your argument makes no sense. If WP is SOOOO optimised for low-end devices, why do we have high-end devices at all? Shouldn't the L925 share the same internals as the L525 in that case? You fail to understand that certain apps and games will require a certain amount of CPU/GPU power, regardless of what the OS is doing. Why do some games work well on low-end Droids with 512 MB but not on similar WPs?
    LOL, everything you said was app based, not os based.
    Althought some things are false. I get that YOU may do some things faster on android, but for example writting an SMS would be faster on WP, as it comes with the best stock swipe keyboard.
    And yes, you may find some lagging apps on wp, but you find 500x more on android, and a lot of them are OS based, not just APP based.
    As far as malware, you are just not well informed at all. Just google "android malware problems" and you will find a lot of articles regarding the case. And its not that hard to get that malware. As you may read, a lot of apps with malware keep entering the google store, and recently was found a malware that could be transfered by SMS.
    Regarding your last part, do you really meant that? Or are you joking?
    OF COURSE some apps will need more power, but when you have a flagship that lags on the OS and on light APPS, something is wrong. Regarding the OS, those low end you talk about lag less than those with quad cores on android... So YES, WP is MUCH MORE optimized than android
    Last edited by Joaquim Reis; 07-04-2014 at 08:34 AM.
    07-04-2014 08:10 AM
  25. Slayix312's Avatar
    The OP is just a fanboy, so this thread should be "AT LEAST" closed.
    lol my thread (which is in PHONE WARS) is making you so mad you want it closed? Sorry if the truth hurts.

    Yeah android is more customizable, but lags as hell (load your m8 with background apps running, and do the same on windows Phone and you will see which one lags).
    I have a custom de-bloated rom that is OC'd and have GPU acceleration enabled. I have Voxer, Skype, Reddit is Fun, Spotify, Hangouts, etc...etc.. all cached when closed and still running at seemingly 100% speed while the Lumia Icon struggles to have more than 5 similar intensive apps open without force-closing one of them. Hey maybe you should try doing what I said in the first sentence and speed up your WP.......oh wait.

    Plus, you say that, in terms of security, windows Phone is at best equal to android. I had a hard time not to laugh while i was reading this. Since you keep talking about facts, tell me how much PERCENTAGE of windows Phone and android phones suffered from malware or hacking, and then have the guts to keep saying that they are equal, with those FACTS.
    see:

    Of all the mobile malware threats that F-Secure found last year, only 0.1% came from Google Play, the official app store where Android users mostly go to get their app fixes.
    Source: Android malware: Google Play accounted for just 0.1% | BGR

    That means that the OVERWHELMING majority of malware came from side-loaded apps (which just started being scanned by google play as well btw). Thus it is no surprise that people are creating more malware for Android than WP.

    IDC: Smartphone OS Market Share 2014, 2013, 2012, and 2011

    Windows phone market-share HAS DROPPED since 2013 globally. Why the hell would you even make a malware program for something that 2.7% of the planet uses compared to 81%? It has little to do with WP being more secure and more to do with no one using it lol.

    Lumia icon has worse cpu and gpu than m8? Of course it has. Why? Because windows Phone is a MUCH MORE optimized system that does not require the amount of power android requires to be even usable (yes, because even with great hw it still lags. You just need to tell me how many threads do you want about android flagships lag complaints).
    Or the more sane reasoning; which is that Nokia couldn't get a hold of any 801 snapdragons by the time of manufacturing, but yeah...you know. Whatever you want to believe to help you sleep at night. Oh and if you want to compare and contrast complaint threads I would be MUCH more than happy to compare HTC One M8 complaint threads to Nokia Lumia Icon complaint threads. Be my guest and start. Or maybe we can compare user reviews? The HTC One M8 has a higher user rating than the Lumia Icon on nearly every website you can find.

    About the apps i have nothing to say, as its know the problema with them, but even that is growing fast, with more and more apps everyday, although still not even near the android app number (even though i dont need 500 battery apps or 1000 flashlight apps on my store)
    No but legit google apps would be nice and not third party rip-offs. IFTTT would be nice. Competent apps from Microsoft would be nice. It is laughable that they improve their apps on competing platforms rather than their own. I don't need 500 battery apps or 1000 flashlight apps either btw. Both come built-in. = - )
    07-04-2014 10:24 AM
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