07-04-2014 01:10 PM
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  1. Slayix312's Avatar
    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to do a small little write up of what my opinion is of WP8 after having my Nokia Lumia Icon for a little over a week now.

    WP8 Pros:
    1. Very lean and fast. This means it works great even on lower end phones well from what I understand.

    WP8 Cons:
    1. The amount of quality apps is heavily behind Android and iOS.
    2. No Google apps.
    3. Some of the apps that it DOES have are atrocious compared to their iOS and Android counterparts. IE: Skype
    4. Lack of customization.
    5. Lack of customization.
    6. Lack of customization.

    Yes I only have 1 pro for WP8, and that is how great it works on lower-end devices.

    Coming from the HTC One M8 running Kit-Kat; everything about the Nokia Lumia Icon (barring the camera) felt like a downgrade in terms of both hardware and software. Normally the biggest argument that WP users have about Android is how laggy it is. Well the M8 is virtually lag free and it has been proven. Both software wise and hardware wise. Source: The HTC One M8 is king of touch screen response time - GSMArena Blog

    So in terms of responsiveness the Icon actually felt just slightly slower. So there goes typically the biggest advantage that WP usually offers. The stock IE browser also annoyed me on WP. It didn't want to play well with many sites and was noticeably slower than Chrome overall.

    I could go on with more things I didn't like, but I will just cut straight to by FAR the biggest. (Can you guess what it is?) Yes, customization. The fact that there is close to 0 customization on WP as compared to Android is the biggest reason that I could never use my Nokia Lumia Icon as a daily driver and wouldn't ever get a WP as a personal phone. Every single thing I don't like about Android I can change or enhance in a way that suits my needs perfectly. With WP what you see is what you get. There aren't many options minus wallpaper and lockscreen changes. I can change my lockscreen, wallpaper, rom, icons, widget styles, overclock or underclock, undervolt, etc...etc... I can go on and on.

    It basically comes down to......I can do everything I need to on Android, but the same isn't true vice-versa. So why bother getting an OS that limits what you can do drastically compared to what is already out their? The biggest draw for WP seems to be the smoothness of it and the live tiles. I personally don't care too much for the live tiles; I find widgets better personally, and I also think the live tiles are somewhat ugly and clutter the phone a bit.

    I will admit that as a techy first and fore-most; I am still going to keep my Lumia Icon and follow the development of the platform. If only because I love gadgets!

    Anyway I just wanted to share my own personal opinions regarding the matter. Thanks!
    06-11-2014 05:05 PM
  2. nicfromwales's Avatar
    I get that some people probably love the ability to customise their Android phone, and I'm sure it's all down to personal taste, but I've never seen an Android home screen that didn't look cheap to me. Just really ugly icons, similar to iOS, but without the class. Live Tiles certainly won't suit everyone, but their simple, uniform design really appeals to me.
    06-11-2014 05:25 PM
  3. MDK22's Avatar
    ... I could go on with more things I didn't like, but I will just cut straight to by FAR the biggest. (Can you guess what it is?) Yes, customization. The fact that there is close to 0 customization on WP as compared to Android is the biggest reason that I could never use my Nokia Lumia Icon as a daily driver and wouldn't ever get a WP as a personal phone. Every single thing I don't like about Android I can change or enhance in a way that suits my needs perfectly. With WP what you see is what you get. There aren't many options minus wallpaper and lockscreen changes. I can change my lockscreen, wallpaper, rom, icons, widget styles, overclock or underclock, undervolt, etc...etc... I can go on and on ...
    I hear ya, don't entirely agree, but I'm only going to address 1 of your points (quoted above)

    What you call customization, most people with an Android device have never even heard of (much less try it themselves) !
    You probably represent the 20% of Android users with the knowledge to attempt this & the stones to follow thru. That grandma with an SGS4 is not thinking about what the daily will bring to her phone. Thus, my comment is - NOT a valid comparison.

    Android is open source, thus more available to the modding you represent as customization. It's been around for a long time, compared to Windows Phone, thus mods abound & more power to you if that's your thing. Windows phone, by comparison, is a nascent OS, a closed OS (in favor of security), NOT open source !

    Much like the iPhone, there will eventually be apps for sideload, but also like the iPhone, NO custom roms, just app addons to the OS experience... and eventually Windows will be jailbroken, takes some time.
    Karthik Naik and chezm like this.
    06-11-2014 05:29 PM
  4. paulxxwall's Avatar
    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to do a small little write up of what my opinion is of WP8 after having my Nokia Lumia Icon for a little over a week now.

    WP8 Pros:
    1. Very lean and fast. This means it works great even on lower end phones well from what I understand.

    WP8 Cons:
    1. The amount of quality apps is heavily behind Android and iOS.
    2. No Google apps.
    3. Some of the apps that it DOES have are atrocious compared to their iOS and Android counterparts. IE: Skype
    4. Lack of customization.
    5. Lack of customization.
    6. Lack of customization.

    Yes I only have 1 pro for WP8, and that is how great it works on lower-end devices.

    Coming from the HTC One M8 running Kit-Kat; everything about the Nokia Lumia Icon (barring the camera) felt like a downgrade in terms of both hardware and software. Normally the biggest argument that WP users have about Android is how laggy it is. Well the M8 is virtually lag free and it has been proven. Both software wise and hardware wise. Source: The HTC One M8 is king of touch screen response time - GSMArena Blog

    So in terms of responsiveness the Icon actually felt just slightly slower. So there goes typically the biggest advantage that WP usually offers. The stock IE browser also annoyed me on WP. It didn't want to play well with many sites and was noticeably slower than Chrome overall.

    I could go on with more things I didn't like, but I will just cut straight to by FAR the biggest. (Can you guess what it is?) Yes, customization. The fact that there is close to 0 customization on WP as compared to Android is the biggest reason that I could never use my Nokia Lumia Icon as a daily driver and wouldn't ever get a WP as a personal phone. Every single thing I don't like about Android I can change or enhance in a way that suits my needs perfectly. With WP what you see is what you get. There aren't many options minus wallpaper and lockscreen changes. I can change my lockscreen, wallpaper, rom, icons, widget styles, overclock or underclock, undervolt, etc...etc... I can go on and on.

    It basically comes down to......I can do everything I need to on Android, but the same isn't true vice-versa. So why bother getting an OS that limits what you can do drastically compared to what is already out their? The biggest draw for WP seems to be the smoothness of it and the live tiles. I personally don't care too much for the live tiles; I find widgets better personally, and I also think the live tiles are somewhat ugly and clutter the phone a bit.

    I will admit that as a techy first and fore-most; I am still going to keep my Lumia Icon and follow the development of the platform. If only because I love gadgets!

    Anyway I just wanted to share my own personal opinions regarding the matter. Thanks!
    06-11-2014 05:44 PM
  5. paulxxwall's Avatar
    I do agree in the apps part! In the customization part I'm ok with! Apps on WP either join in a beta or drop support and as much as I like WP ....i dont think it will get better
    06-11-2014 05:50 PM
  6. Slayix312's Avatar
    Android is open source, thus more available to the modding you represent as customization. It's been around for a long time, compared to Windows Phone, thus mods abound & more power to you if that's your thing. Windows phone, by comparison, is a nascent OS, a closed OS (in favor of security), NOT open source !

    Much like the iPhone, there will eventually be apps for sideload, but also like the iPhone, NO custom roms, just app addons to the OS experience... and eventually Windows will be jailbroken, takes some time.

    Yeah don't get me wrong; I understand the difference between closed source and open source. I also know that companies try to market closed-source as more secure. Which is completely wrong. Why? Because at BEST a closed source OS like WP8 is only as good as Android. In terms of security that is.Again, at BEST.

    Now a typical proponent of a closed source OS (WP8/iOS) might say, "Well look at all the Malware hitting Android! SEE CLOSED SOURCE IS MORE SECURE!"

    That is completely untrue. Especially given Android's security features. The security of Android is dependent on the user not being stupid and I respect Google for letting individual users choose how dangerous they want to be.

    193dtvab4yyfmjpg.jpg

    Those are all the steps that have to be passed and confirmed by the user just to even install a potentially malicious app on your phone.

    This is no different than a windows user being an ***** and going to porn sites and clicking on links and installings random things. The security depends on the user just like on Android. It can be super secure or very vulnerable.

    Thus imo there is no benefit to a closed source OS; all that means is that they can lock down what you do more........and why limit yourself?

    Edit #1: I should also add that via side-loading you can install things like Xposed-framework which will then let you install Xprivacy which in turn can deny the permissions of any app and/or feed it false data. You don't like Facebook/ Google/ or any other app maker knowing your location? Ok feed it false data via Xprivacy; now you are on Christmas Island in the middle of the ocean. Thus I would argue that Android CAN BE even more secure.

    Edit #2: @nicfromwales

    I get that some people probably love the ability to customise their Android phone, and I'm sure it's all down to personal taste, but I've never seen an Android home screen that didn't look cheap to me. Just really ugly icons, similar to iOS, but without the class. Live Tiles certainly won't suit everyone, but their simple, uniform design really appeals to me.
    As you said it is all personal preference, but that is the cool thing about Android. If you don't like something you can change it. Want it to look like WP8? Here you go: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.lx.launcher8

    Want to go in a completely different direction with 3D? Here you go: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...p.nextlauncher

    Again, that is the power of Android. You can switch launchers as soon as you get bored of one. You get to CHOOSE what you want. Microsoft doesn't tell you what you NEED to have.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that it is up to each individual to decide if something looks good or not. If you love WP8 layout and don't ever want to change it....then more power to you.

    This is my personal homescreen on my M8 atm. Light, super fast, and extremely functional. With a different icon pack to make it more appealing for me personally. I can change every single thing from the data icons to the navigation icons, to the height of the notification toolbar even.

    screenshot_2014-06-11-16-47-28.png
    Last edited by Slayix312; 06-11-2014 at 07:09 PM.
    06-11-2014 06:29 PM
  7. plot_almighty's Avatar
    I'm sorry you don't find Windows Phone visually appealing. I personally am not the biggest fan of the design on Windows 8.1 itself, but on Windows Phone 8.1, I absolutely love the aesthetics. I, on a personal level, will not go back to Android. I'm all for customization, but I don't like TOO many choices in how I customize. I've found I'll spend more time trying to get my phone to look like I want, get bored with it, and go back over it and change it again. Leaves me unable to enjoy the apps just because of this. Secondary reasons are because I'm an Xbox gamer and I absolutely love having achievement enabled games on my phone, plus I've been using Windows products since I was 13 (now 25). Continuing aesthetics, I have my lock screen to reflect the Bing image of the day. Absolutely love this as I get a new image that's visually appealing everyday. I'm also comfortable with how Microsoft implemented backgrounds with transparent tiles. I also like uniformity in my OS, and I feel MS struck the middle ground between iOS in terms of beauty (my 920 is an absolutely beautiful piece of hardware, and is giving ground on customization options found in Android without sacrificing the beautiful look. Simply put, the minimalist customization approach coupled with the personalized Live Tiles information being shown to me, gives me a more complete personal experience than redesigning the the whole OS, visually or otherwise, from almost ground up. For my tastes Microsoft got it right for me.
    06-11-2014 10:09 PM
  8. nicfromwales's Avatar
    Edit #2: @nicfromwales



    As you said it is all personal preference, but that is the cool thing about Android. If you don't like something you can change it. Want it to look like WP8? Here you go: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.lx.launcher8

    Want to go in a completely different direction with 3D? Here you go: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...p.nextlauncher

    Again, that is the power of Android. You can switch launchers as soon as you get bored of one. You get to CHOOSE what you want. Microsoft doesn't tell you what you NEED to have.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that it is up to each individual to decide if something looks good or not. If you love WP8 layout and don't ever want to change it....then more power to you.

    This is my personal homescreen on my M8 atm. Light, super fast, and extremely functional. With a different icon pack to make it more appealing for me personally. I can change every single thing from the data icons to the navigation icons, to the height of the notification toolbar even.

    To be honest, I just feel as though you've validated my point. I had a quick look at that video, and all I saw was a cheap knock-off of Windows Phone 8. Android always looks sort of fake to me, like you bought your OS at a dodgy market, and the stall seller ripped you off. Sure, you can customise it, but the quality and design aesthetics just never seem to be to a high standard. I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and keep on enjoying our respective choice of phones. :)
    06-12-2014 03:37 AM
  9. Slayix312's Avatar
    To be honest, I just feel as though you've validated my point. I had a quick look at that video, and all I saw was a cheap knock-off of Windows Phone 8. Android always looks sort of fake to me, like you bought your OS at a dodgy market, and the stall seller ripped you off. Sure, you can customise it, but the quality and design aesthetics just never seem to be to a high standard. I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and keep on enjoying our respective choice of phones. :)
    Oh of course that WP8 launcher isn't going to be as nice as the actual thing. If it was that would mean 2 things:

    1. The devs for that launcher are incredibly good.

    2. The WP devs are really bad. haha

    I just linked that to show how the style of Android can change drastically. While comparatively WP8 can change very very little. Those are just 2 examples of tens/hundreds of different ones. Don't like those? You can pick different ones.

    Sure, you can customise it, but the quality and design aesthetics just never seem to be to a high standard.
    Yes we can definitely agree to disagree on this. I find Android's UI much cleaner rather than the cluttered live tiles that are flipping around constantly. The square tiles just seem very un-inspired to me personally.

    Anyway in terms of customization I am not talking just about aesthetics. When I say customization I mean:

    lockscreen, wallpaper, rom, icons, widget styles, overclock or underclock, undervolt, etc...etc..
    With a rooted and rom'd M8 phone (if given time and the proper equipment) I could set-up Tasker to open my garage door automatically when I am within 500ft of my house. There isn't anywhere near that functionality on WP8 at the moment.

    This is essentially the whole point of this post. That the functionality of Android is miles ahead of WP8 still.

    If you aren't a power user or just your every day casual user then none of this stuff really applies to you as you will never use it. For many power-users though this is good stuff to know when trying to find out how far you can push your phone.
    ronty likes this.
    06-12-2014 08:57 AM
  10. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    I owned a Galaxy Nexus (Google Play Edition) for a year. For me, a year is a long time to use a smartphone as my primary device, so that says a lot about its staying power with me.

    I never installed any kind of launchers or themes. I never saw the need to. In fact, the only significant customization I did was in the form of an app that allows led me to put the phone in a "phone calls only" mode.

    For someone like me, who is not interested in endlessly modding his phone, but looks at what it can do out of the box, Windows Phone is actually an appealing option.

    I have used the 4 major platforms (iOS, Android, Windows Phone, BB10) extensively and find Windows Phone to have the easiest and most intuitive user interface.

    In WP, you don't have to swipe left or right through several home screens in search of an app Icon or widget. Your most used apps are on the live tile screen. All apps and settings are on the app screen. Simple.

    In WP, your app icons ARE your widgets. It's a subtle but ingenious difference from Android, where your home screen can be a patchwork of static icons, each with their own styling, along with widgets of various sizes and styles.

    To me, Android home screens can be the most cluttered and hodgepodge of any platform.

    On the other hand, the WP tiles are all similar in styling, dimension, and design language, and you can size the tiles according to your preference. You can make them all the same size for a symmetrical look if you're that OCD about it. :)

    Another thing I like about WP more than any other platform is that more of the apps share a similar design language and flow. Once you become familiar with it, most apps are intuitive to learn and use. In general, they just seem more visually appealing and fluid than on other platforms. It's kinda hard to describe, but I like it.

    One thing I loathed about Android was that I always seemed to be closing apps to free up resources and reduce battery drain. These issues may have been addressed to a certain degree by the latest OS releases, but I still see comments about them in Android forums.

    WP, in contrast, is the most efficient smartphone OS I've ever used. I used a Lumia 521 for several months. This is an entry-level WP with only 512 MB of RAM and a 1 GHz dial core CPU. I was astounded at how smoothly and fluidly the OS and apps ran on such modest hardware. An equally specced Android device would NOT run as smoothly. It just wouldn't.

    Security IS a concern on Android. Yes, compromises in Android are largely dependent upon the ignorance or stupidity of the end user. But the point is, an equally ignorant or stupid person using Windows Phone does not face the same risks.



    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    06-12-2014 10:02 AM
  11. Karthik Naik's Avatar
    I owned a Galaxy Nexus (Google Play Edition) for a year. For me, a year is a long time to use a smartphone as my primary device, so that says a lot about its staying power with me.

    I never installed any kind of launchers or themes. I never saw the need to. In fact, the only significant customization I did was in the form of an app that allows led me to put the phone in a "phone calls only" mode.

    For someone like me, who is not interested in endlessly modding his phone, but looks at what it can do out of the box, Windows Phone is actually an appealing option.

    I have used the 4 major platforms (iOS, Android, Windows Phone, BB10) extensively and find Windows Phone to have the easiest and most intuitive user interface.

    In WP, you don't have to swipe left or right through several home screens in search of an app Icon or widget. Your most used apps are on the live tile screen. All apps and settings are on the app screen. Simple.

    In WP, your app icons ARE your widgets. It's a subtle but ingenious difference from Android, where your home screen can be a patchwork of static icons, each with their own styling, along with widgets of various sizes and styles.

    To me, Android home screens can be the most cluttered and hodgepodge of any platform.

    On the other hand, the WP tiles are all similar in styling, dimension, and design language, and you can size the tiles according to your preference. You can make them all the same size for a symmetrical look if you're that OCD about it. :)

    Another thing I like about WP more than any other platform is that more of the apps share a similar design language and flow. Once you become familiar with it, most apps are intuitive to learn and use. In general, they just seem more visually appealing and fluid than on other platforms. It's kinda hard to describe, but I like it.

    One thing I loathed about Android was that I always seemed to be closing apps to free up resources and reduce battery drain. These issues may have been addressed to a certain degree by the latest OS releases, but I still see comments about them in Android forums.

    WP, in contrast, is the most efficient smartphone OS I've ever used. I used a Lumia 521 for several months. This is an entry-level WP with only 512 MB of RAM and a 1 GHz dial core CPU. I was astounded at how smoothly and fluidly the OS and apps ran on such modest hardware. An equally specced Android device would NOT run as smoothly. It just wouldn't.

    Security IS a concern on Android. Yes, compromises in Android are largely dependent upon the ignorance or stupidity of the end user. But the point is, an equally ignorant or stupid person using Windows Phone does not face the same risks.



    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    +10000000
    this!! the best comparison between the platforms ever! sums up what most people oversee
    anon(6038817) and damule6666 like this.
    06-16-2014 08:46 AM
  12. Maitrikkataria's Avatar
    I agree to all what you have discussed. But there are other aspects of Windows Phone ecosystem that you should consider for discussion. Consider a developer's view with the OS, there are 4 beautiful templates for Windows Phone apps, which can help a developer to deliver a restriction free user experience, or we can discuss the lower fill rates of advertisement in Windows Phone leading to lower monetization for developers. Low fragmentation in OS is

    As we all know, health industries are taking quite some interest in health tracking via mobile applications, which would be an essentially important and vital part of our lives. This is the place where Windows Store lacks greatly, there are numerous health apps but none is futuristic. This is quite a huge disadvantage for people who expects a smartphone to really work like "SMARTPHONE", day after day we see Android and iOS phones coming out with new health tracking solutions e.g. see this app: Diabetes Tracker | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (India) .This app does not works in the way one should expect it to work in this era. And I am not suggesting that Windows Phone is bad because it does not have all these great apps, but I am rather saying that this is an opportunistic arena that is unsaturated unlike iOS and Android.

    Lack of task specific quality applications is something that keeps Windows Phone away from a group of people.
    07-01-2014 03:34 AM
  13. dov1978's Avatar
    The only drawback on WP 8.1 is still the age old lack of apps and equally the lack of app quality compared to iOS and Android. This is the single most reason I keep going back to these platforms after 3 or 4 months then return to WP hoping there's been a sudden miracle. Since the 8.1 update I'm happy with the level of customisation available ie custom notification tones for every app, home screen background, and even on WhatsApp now. On WP8.1 there's more options to personalise my phone than my iPhones did. I like aspects of iOS, Android and WP so have no real favourite and chop and change between them all every 3 or 4 months as I get bored with my phones quickly. If they made a phone with a Lumia 1520 screen, 1020 camera and WP 8.1, the iOS AppStore and apps, with the freedom of Android then I'm sure I'd actually keep a phone a whole lot longer......we can all dream I suppose.


    P.S one thing I don't miss about Android is having to keep closing background apps and clearing the Cache to free up RAM just so it runs a bit smoother for a while. Even on my Note 3 with 3GB of RAM I was having to do this.

    Sent from my iPad using WPCentral Forums
    Last edited by dov1978; 07-01-2014 at 04:58 AM.
    07-01-2014 04:22 AM
  14. Ian Too's Avatar
    Thanks for your thoughts on the two OSs. It's clear you're an expert and have marshaled your facts very well to support your position, but I would like to make a few comments:

    Firstly, you're not really comparing like for like: the very latest version of Android against a soon to be replaced version of WP. Since you are an expert and more than capable of installing the 8.1 preview, why the bias?

    Also, we know that baring it being blocked by carriers, all Windows Phone 8 devices will get the upgrade to 8.1, even those nearly two years old and the cheapest. How many Android devices will receive that level of support?

    The second question is have you spent even a tenth of the time optimizing your WP device as you have the M8? Of course, WP's comparably smaller scope for customisation means less time is needed for optimization, but some time is still needed, for instance to make your own custom background image for the start screen in WP8.1.

    Once you have populated the WP8.1 start screen with apps and resized the tiles to control the amount of information presented, the result is very personal and says a lot about you.

    Here for instance is the top of my start screen:
    Attachment 70667
    You can see for instance that it's very information dense. I like to see my next five appointments and have ready access to lots of things right off the bat. Notice the top six tiles are for podcasts I keep track of, a unique feature of WP as far as I know. I don't have to open an app to keep track of my podcasts, my phone reminds me automatically. Your home screen by comparison, seems empty. Can you do anything with all that empty space, or is it wasted? Personally, I'd rather have the information bought to me rather than have to go searching all the time.

    What we have here is clearly two different approaches to the same problem, with Android following the the old iOS paradigm, itself adapted from the PC desktop, while Microsoft clearly innovated and brought something fresh to the table. If you haven't properly grasped the new way of thinking, you're hardly likely to get the best from it, are you?

    Personally, be it iOS or Android, I could never go back to a static UI. I'd be forever wondering what was going on.

    On security, you've built yourself a nice little straw house, but the facts don't paint such a rosy picture. For a start, the Google Play store isn't even available in all markets, so a significant proportion of Android users do not even have that protection. For those that do use Play, we know that apps are not vetted before they are published, so malware can and does get on to devices before users report them or they are found by the bots Google uses to police the store.

    In reality, a recent study found that .25% of Android handsets were infected with malware. Now, a quarter of a percent doesn't seem a lot, but with Google now claiming over a billion Android users, that's 250,000 crime victims. Whatsmore, the previous accepted estimated rate of infection was .0009% making the new one bigger by a factor of 277. If that were to follow a trend, then by next year we'd expect 70% of Android devices to be infected. Of course that isn't going to happen, but with so many new users buying Android as their first smart device, their inexperience will lead them into becoming infected and a tidal wave of woe and misery will follow.

    There is a famous saying that any chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Well, by including the user in that chain, Google have made a mockery of Android security. You better pray that some hacker doesn't figure out how to cross infect one device from another, because if they do that infection rate is going to explode. Meanwhile iOS and Windows Phone users will enjoy a measure herd immunity.

    All of this ignores the biggest security breach of all: Google itself. The central tenet of security is TNO and yet you have, for the sake of convenience, decided to trust a for profit advertising company with all your personal information; allowing them to scan your emails, text messages, address books and even track your movements - all on the assumption that Saint Sergei and co never find anything nefarious to do. On the assumption that Google are a bastion which can never be breached by say, the NSA.

    Here you are, bragging about how secure Android is, when you've already broken the cardinal rule of security.

    You do realise that you're supposed to try to avoid being a patsy, don't you?
    07-01-2014 07:02 AM
  15. Slayix312's Avatar

    Firstly, you're not really comparing like for like: the very latest version of Android against a soon to be replaced version of WP. Since you are an expert and more than capable of installing the 8.1 preview, why the bias?
    This is a very good passive-aggressive post haha. I'll respond to all your points however.

    1. In that case it is fair game to compare WP 8.1 to Android L than since kit-kat is "soon to be replaced" as well.

    2. None of the points I made would have changed with 8.1. The apps selection is bad and the app quality is bad, and the customization is horrible. These don't get significantly better with 8.1. At least compared to Android.

    3. I am not installing the 8.1 developer preview because this is a work-phone and I don't think my company would appreciate me voiding the warranty.

    Also, we know that baring it being blocked by carriers, all Windows Phone 8 devices will get the upgrade to 8.1, even those nearly two years old and the cheapest. How many Android devices will receive that level of support?
    Um..a lot? Even the SGS2 got 4.1 and it started at 2.3. HTC One's have had about the same level of support. 2 year support isn't that impressive.

    The second question is have you spent even a tenth of the time optimizing your WP device as you have the M8? Of course, WP's comparably smaller scope for customisation means less time is needed for optimization, but some time is still needed, for instance to make your own custom background image for the start screen in WP8.1.

    Once you have populated the WP8.1 start screen with apps and resized the tiles to control the amount of information presented, the result is very personal and says a lot about you.
    Yeah re-sizing tiles and changing the background says a lot about me, but changing my ROM, custom recovery; changing my boot-animation and down-animation. Changing my launcher, notification bar, color scheme, clock display, etc...etc... All say A LOT MORE about me. WP 8 or 8.1 isn't anywhere within 5 ball-parks of Android customization regardless of how much time you spend on it.

    You can see for instance that it's very information dense. I like to see my next five appointments and have ready access to lots of things right off the bat. Notice the top six tiles are for podcasts I keep track of, a unique feature of WP as far as I know. I don't have to open an app to keep track of my podcasts, my phone reminds me automatically. Your home screen by comparison, seems empty. Can you do anything with all that empty space, or is it wasted? Personally, I'd rather have the information bought to me rather than have to go searching all the time.
    I keep my home-screen empty because I don't like it cluttered. I could have my Google now widget and Blinkfeed widget showing me everything I need to if need-be. My Google now widget could show me how long I can expect my commute home to be after work. It can show me all upcoming appoints on my calendars and reminders. It can show me any interesting stories I have previously read about that I would like to know more about. Far more robust than what you are showing.

    On security, you've built yourself a nice little straw house, but the facts don't paint such a rosy picture. For a start, the Google Play store isn't even available in all markets, so a significant proportion of Android users do not even have that protection. For those that do use Play, we know that apps are not vetted before they are published, so malware can and does get on to devices before users report them or they are found by the bots Google uses to police the store.
    What do you mean Google Play Store isn't available in all markets? The only thing Google play is not available on is in highly modified versions of Android like those found on the Kindle, and thus it is up to Amazon to provide said protection. Also what do you mean apps are not "vetted" before they are published? Apps are automatically scanned when uploaded to the play store for any malicious algorithms and it does a superb job the majority of the time.


    In reality, a recent study found that .25% of Android handsets were infected with malware. Now, a quarter of a percent doesn't seem a lot, but with Google now claiming over a billion Android users, that's 250,000 crime victims. Whatsmore, the previous accepted estimated rate of infection was .0009% making the new one bigger by a factor of 277. If that were to follow a trend, then by next year we'd expect 70% of Android devices to be infected. Of course that isn't going to happen, but with so many new users buying Android as their first smart device, their inexperience will lead them into becoming infected and a tidal wave of woe and misery will follow.
    As you stated; it is a very small number of Android smartphones that is infected and Google keeps adding more security every major Android release. I would MUCH rather have an open environment and let users decide what to download and what not to download. If a couple of idiots get infected oh-well. You will always have idiots on any platform; yet we don't blame Google for someone downloading a Trojan on Windows 7 do we?

    There is a famous saying that any chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Well, by including the user in that chain, Google have made a mockery of Android security. You better pray that some hacker doesn't figure out how to cross infect one device from another, because if they do that infection rate is going to explode. Meanwhile iOS and Windows Phone users will enjoy a measure herd immunity.
    If they do that than it would be pretty damn impressive because they would have gone past Android's sandboxing. Which means WP 8 - 8.1 users and iOS users should be just as fearful as they won't be safe if methods have been developed to pass this. So I am not sure why you are saying iOS and WP will be safe.

    All of this ignores the biggest security breach of all: Google itself. The central tenet of security is TNO and yet you have, for the sake of convenience, decided to trust a for profit advertising company with all your personal information; allowing them to scan your emails, text messages, address books and even track your movements - all on the assumption that Saint Sergei and co never find anything nefarious to do. On the assumption that Google are a bastion which can never be breached by say, the NSA.
    I don't trust or distrust Google any less/more than I do Microsoft.

    Microsoft btw is the company who purposefully input back-doors into outlook/skype, etc...

    Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages | World news | The Guardian

    You do realise that you're supposed to try to avoid being a patsy, don't you?
    Hence why I use Android with multiple security features. ESET for device security, Xprivacy to regulate app permissions and avoid data collection, and PIA VPN.

    a047p.jpg
    07-02-2014 10:22 AM
  16. anon(8938849)'s Avatar
    I've just switched to WP after using Android for 3 years. First, the m8 is full metal, so what. That comes with problems like no wireless charging, really bad heating up etc. The icon has a metal frame with quality polycarb backing. It feels amazing. The camera is ten times better than the M8 camera, the bezels are slimmer... It feels much higher quality to me. Also the display is better. Really the M8 I find is an extremely overrated phone in general. Compare the icon to the G3 then we're getting somewhere.
    07-02-2014 10:35 AM
  17. peacefulberry's Avatar
    I get that some people probably love the ability to customise their Android phone, and I'm sure it's all down to personal taste, but I've never seen an Android home screen that didn't look cheap to me. Just really ugly icons, similar to iOS, but without the class. Live Tiles certainly won't suit everyone, but their simple, uniform design really appeals to me.
    I just got my first android phone about a week ago and I have the live photo mosaic background with the icons on top...it is the most beautiful screen I've ever created. The photo mosaic tiles flip just like on my wp and the live wallpaper is also on my lock screen! I love it actually more than my wp start screen.
    Slayix312 likes this.
    07-02-2014 11:10 AM
  18. Slayix312's Avatar
    I've just switched to WP after using Android for 3 years. First, the m8 is full metal, so what. That comes with problems like no wireless charging, really bad heating up etc. The icon has a metal frame with quality polycarb backing. It feels amazing. The camera is ten times better than the M8 camera, the bezels are slimmer... It feels much higher quality to me. Also the display is better. Really the M8 I find is an extremely overrated phone in general. Compare the icon to the G3 then we're getting somewhere.
    Lol the Icon is inferior in battery life, CPU, and display; specification wise. Thus not objective. I'll agree that the Camera is better but I don't care too much about the wireless charging. Inductive charging severely shortens battery life due to the increased heat deteriorating said battery. Besides I had it for the Palm Pre and when that phone was on the cable rather than the puck it charged much faster.

    The Icon isn't on the same level as the M8 and definitely not the G3.
    Last edited by Slayix312; 07-02-2014 at 11:31 AM.
    07-02-2014 11:20 AM
  19. damule6666's Avatar
    I too own both. And after reading all this had to give my input.

    My HTC M8 feels like my old M7. Which felt like my note 2-3. More of the same. Only faster. It's fine if you find you're an impetuous younger person that bores easily and must change things often, it's the way to go. But I find the simple and smooth way in which the icon goes about its business is far more conducive to getting things done. And aesthetically superior in every way.

    Just my 0.02
    07-02-2014 01:00 PM
  20. anon(8938849)'s Avatar
    Lol the Icon is inferior in battery life, CPU, and display; specification wise. Thus not objective. I'll agree that the Camera is better but I don't care too much about the wireless charging. Inductive charging severely shortens battery life due to the increased heat deteriorating said battery. Besides I had it for the Palm Pre and when that phone was on the cable rather than the puck it charged much faster.



    The Icon isn't on the same level as the M8 and definitely not the G3.
    You may not care about wireless charging but it doesn't impact battery like you say. And I'm pointing out real factual drawbacks of all metal construction. The display is your opinion, I find the icons display better. And the overall design. The M8 is not attractive to me. And its way too curved and slippery. The battery life is not good. I don't own the icon myself so I don't know about battery life on it, but the M8 my girlfriend had got about the same battery life as my nexus 5. You can like the M8 more of course, but it's not as black and white in the real world. There are real benefits to the icon and it's every bit on the same level as the M8. The cpu on the M8 is a slightly overclocked version of the one in the Icon so performance is on par.
    07-02-2014 07:41 PM
  21. Slayix312's Avatar
    You may not care about wireless charging but it doesn't impact battery like you say.
    False;See:

    Avoid wireless charging

    Wireless charging is can be incredibly convenient if your phone can do it, but it's not without its disadvantages. The inductive, wireless chargers out there today have this nasty habit of generating a fair bit of waste heat. And while wasted energy is just a bummer in general, that heat will also toast your battery in the process. That's no bueno. It's a little less convenient, but standard plug-in charging is going to keep your battery in better shape, especially if you're some place warm to begin with.
    source: How To Take Care of Your Smartphone Battery the Right Way

    I'll take a MUCH more solid metal phone without the battery-killing inductive charging and low heat.

    The battery life is not good.
    It is MUCH better than the Icon's battery life so I don't even think you know what you are saying lol.

    Compare: Nokia Lumia Icon battery life test - GSMArena Blog

    vs

    HTC One (M8) battery life test - GSMArena Blog

    The HTC One M8 had almost 6 hours more talk-time. That is crazy.

    The cpu on the M8 is a slightly overclocked version of the one in the Icon so performance is on par.
    The GPU also had a 30%+ higher GPU clockspeed and higher RAM bandwidth besides the faster CPU clock.

    Just sayin.

    Edit: The HTC One M8 also got the fastest touchscreen response times of any flagship phone btw. So you really can't even argue that the Icon is faster in any way.

    It has crappier battery life, lower specifications (minus the camera), and a far more limited OS.

    The best thing going for it is the Camera and WPs performance on crappy low-end phones.
    07-02-2014 07:58 PM
  22. anon(8938849)'s Avatar
    False;See:



    source: How To Take Care of Your Smartphone Battery the Right Way

    I'll take a MUCH more solid metal phone without the battery-killing inductive charging and low heat.



    It is MUCH better than the Icon's battery life so I don't even think you know what you are saying lol.

    Compare: Nokia Lumia Icon battery life test - GSMArena Blog

    vs

    HTC One (M8) battery life test - GSMArena Blog

    The HTC One M8 had almost 6 hours more talk-time. That is crazy.



    The GPU also had a 30%+ higher GPU clockspeed and higher RAM bandwidth besides the faster CPU clock.

    Just sayin.

    Edit: The HTC One M8 also got the fastest touchscreen response times of any flagship phone btw. So you really can't even argue that the Icon is faster in any way.

    It has crappier battery life, lower specifications (minus the camera), and a far more limited OS.

    The best thing going for it is the Camera and WPs performance on crappy low-end phones.
    The M8 has mediocre battery life. I know exactly what I'm talking about, from real world experience.

    You can prefer whatever you want, including the less efficient all metal design, that doesn't make it better. Your solid phones screen will break as easy as any other of it gets dropped so they're goes that. Not to mention aluminums propensity to scratch and dent.

    Not trying to change your opinion about your favorite phone or argue benchmarks, as if they mean anything anyways. But any person being objective or professional in the least wouldn't trash the Icon as being garbage not on the same level based on their own personal preference.
    07-02-2014 11:02 PM
  23. twint7787's Avatar
    Hello everyone,

    I wanted to do a small little write up of what my opinion is of WP8 after having my Nokia Lumia Icon for a little over a week now.

    WP8 Pros:
    1. Very lean and fast. This means it works great even on lower end phones well from what I understand.

    WP8 Cons:
    1. The amount of quality apps is heavily behind Android and iOS.
    2. No Google apps.
    3. Some of the apps that it DOES have are atrocious compared to their iOS and Android counterparts. IE: Skype
    4. Lack of customization.
    5. Lack of customization.
    6. Lack of customization.

    Yes I only have 1 pro for WP8, and that is how great it works on lower-end devices.

    Coming from the HTC One M8 running Kit-Kat; everything about the Nokia Lumia Icon (barring the camera) felt like a downgrade in terms of both hardware and software. Normally the biggest argument that WP users have about Android is how laggy it is. Well the M8 is virtually lag free and it has been proven. Both software wise and hardware wise. Source: The HTC One M8 is king of touch screen response time - GSMArena Blog

    So in terms of responsiveness the Icon actually felt just slightly slower. So there goes typically the biggest advantage that WP usually offers. The stock IE browser also annoyed me on WP. It didn't want to play well with many sites and was noticeably slower than Chrome overall.

    I could go on with more things I didn't like, but I will just cut straight to by FAR the biggest. (Can you guess what it is?) Yes, customization. The fact that there is close to 0 customization on WP as compared to Android is the biggest reason that I could never use my Nokia Lumia Icon as a daily driver and wouldn't ever get a WP as a personal phone. Every single thing I don't like about Android I can change or enhance in a way that suits my needs perfectly. With WP what you see is what you get. There aren't many options minus wallpaper and lockscreen changes. I can change my lockscreen, wallpaper, rom, icons, widget styles, overclock or underclock, undervolt, etc...etc... I can go on and on.

    It basically comes down to......I can do everything I need to on Android, but the same isn't true vice-versa. So why bother getting an OS that limits what you can do drastically compared to what is already out their? The biggest draw for WP seems to be the smoothness of it and the live tiles. I personally don't care too much for the live tiles; I find widgets better personally, and I also think the live tiles are somewhat ugly and clutter the phone a bit.

    I will admit that as a techy first and fore-most; I am still going to keep my Lumia Icon and follow the development of the platform. If only because I love gadgets!

    Anyway I just wanted to share my own personal opinions regarding the matter. Thanks!
    What was the purpose of this exactly? If you are a 'techy' as you claim to be, how is it you are so surprised by the lack of customization in WP? Also your one pro of WP alludes to something you haven't experienced first hand.
    07-02-2014 11:22 PM
  24. Slayix312's Avatar
    The M8 has mediocre battery life. I know exactly what I'm talking about, from real world experience.
    I do too. I have been using it since release date. Not to mention that all battery tests from every tech site list it as near the top in terms of battery life for flagship phones.

    Again; objective tests show the M8 has much better battery life than the Icon. So no point in even trying to use that as part of your argument because if the M8 has mediocre battery life than the Icon has atrocious battery life.

    What was the purpose of this exactly? If you are a 'techy' as you claim to be, how is it you are so surprised by the lack of customization in WP? Also your one pro of WP alludes to something you haven't experienced first hand.
    Obviously I know WP wasn't going to be as customizable as Android nor have as many apps, but I never thought it was THIS bad. Hence my write-up. Btw are you surprised that there is a thread like this in the "Phone Wars" section?
    07-02-2014 11:32 PM
  25. irvin792's Avatar
    1520's battery life is epic
    07-02-2014 11:38 PM
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