10-04-2014 11:10 PM
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  1. a5cent's Avatar
    but I want to reiterate that the iPhone is made out of aluminum. If it were made from stainless steel, these bend issues would probably not be very bad if at all.

    All crystalline metals can be bent out of shape. It's only a question of how much force is required. You might get about twice the stiffness out of a steel frame, but I doubt that would solve the problem. You'd still be able to bend it out of shape by sitting on it.

    As Laura mentioned, weight is also a very important property that shouldn't be ignored. A steel version of this phone would easily weigh 250 instead of 160 grams (probably more), which would have everyone raging.

    Using a material that reverts back into its original shape, like polycarbonate, is one solution. Assuming Apple wants to stick with crystalline metals however, just changing materials won't be enough. They will have to do some redesigning/reinforcing to fix it.
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-24-2014 11:05 PM
  2. psoham777's Avatar
    All crystalline metals can be bent out of shape. It's only a question of how much force is required. You might get about twice the stiffness out of a steel frame, but I doubt that would solve the problem. You'd still be able to bend it out of shape by sitting on it.

    As Laura mentioned, weight is also a very important property that shouldn't be ignored. A steel version of this phone would easily weigh 250 instead of 160 grams (probably more), which would have everyone raging.

    Using a material that reverts back into its original shape, like polycarbonate, is one solution. Assuming Apple wants to stick with crystalline metals however, just changing materials won't be enough. They will have to do some redesigning/reinforcing to fix it.
    You are right. But now apple can't fix it, they just can't. IPhones6/6+ are already launched, they needed to do all that testing before they came out. Hence Nokia vigorously tests their phones before launching them. Stainless steel/aluminium can't fix it, but adamantium surely can.:P
    Just waiting for Nokia to come up with a metal phone & then we'll see how much force is required to bend it
    09-24-2014 11:22 PM
  3. mister2d's Avatar
    All crystalline metals can be bent out of shape. It's only a question of how much force is required. You might get about twice the stiffness out of a steel frame, but I doubt that would solve the problem. You'd still be able to bend it out of shape by sitting on it.

    As Laura mentioned, weight is also a very important property that shouldn't be ignored. A steel version of this phone would easily weigh 250 instead of 160 grams (probably more), which would have everyone raging.

    Using a material that reverts back into its original shape, like polycarbonate, is one solution. Assuming Apple wants to stick with crystalline metals however, just changing materials won't be enough. They will have to do some redesigning/reinforcing to fix it.
    Actually Apple's site shows the IPhone 6 / 6 Plus to be 129 grams and 172 grams respectively.

    What I don't get is why everyone would be raging since the 1st gen iPhone weighed 135 grams, and I thought it was pretty sturdy back then.
    09-24-2014 11:22 PM
  4. mister2d's Avatar
    Just waiting for Nokia to come up with a metal phone & then we'll see how much force is required to bend it
    Lumia 925.
    09-24-2014 11:24 PM
  5. psoham777's Avatar
    Lumia 925.
    If I remember, It wasn't a fully metal phone, its edges were of metal right?
    09-24-2014 11:26 PM
  6. mister2d's Avatar
    If I remember, It wasn't a fully metal phone, its edges were of metal right?
    Correct, not fully metal but enough of it was to do the type of test you mentioned. Man I miss that phone.
    09-24-2014 11:40 PM
  7. psoham777's Avatar
    Correct, not fully metal but enough of it was to do the type of test you mentioned. Man I miss that phone.
    Yes, good phone, even I was quite near to buying one, then bought a 1320 instead. I still expect a full metal phone from Nokia & then everyone should see its bend test
    09-24-2014 11:52 PM
  8. SAM 77's Avatar
    They used a cheaper grade of aluminium to cut costs and now its biting them in the ***.


    Poor design and poor material grade is what is causing these problems.

    Apple showing the love to its loyally blind fanbase. Cheap design, cheap materials.
    09-25-2014 12:02 AM
  9. psoham777's Avatar
    Yes very cheap, now the sales of iPhone 6+ would be extreme, either many people would buy it or none of them would buy it! Many would buy as now its very customizable, stylish curves can be obtained.
    09-25-2014 12:23 AM
  10. a5cent's Avatar
    Actually Apple's site shows the IPhone 6 / 6 Plus to be 129 grams and 172 grams respectively.
    What I don't get is why everyone would be raging since the 1st gen iPhone weighed 135 grams, and I thought it was pretty sturdy back then.
    You are right of course. I was too lazy to look it up. It doesn't really matter anyway, as I was just guestimating. Aluminium has roughly 1/3rd the density of steel, and while that doesn't really say much about weight, that is what I was basing my estimate on.

    What I meant was that an iPhone weighing 250g (very heavy) would be the target of a lot of nerd rage, as the iPhone's light weight has long been touted as a selling point.

    You are right. But now apple can't fix it, they just can't. IPhones6/6+ are already launched,
    Yes. That is obvious. Any "fix" would come with the next revision of the iPhone, likely the 6s, as has been the case with all the hardware problems iPhones have had in the past.

    They used a cheaper grade of aluminium to cut costs and now its biting them in the ***.
    You have any proof for that? I'm sceptical. There isn't really any such thing as a "cheaper grade of aluminium". Apple can choose between different aluminium alloys, but none are inherently better or worse. They just have different properties and trade offs, but you can't group them into "better" or "worse" categories.
    09-25-2014 01:11 AM
  11. psoham777's Avatar
    For iPhone 6/6+ users
    Attached Thumbnails altajkneg4n8fnkcz-8sy93dfpywvpydczx4pxmca_kvedu.jpg  
    09-25-2014 01:49 AM
  12. SAM 77's Avatar
    Apple can choose between different aluminium alloys, but none are inherently better or worse. They just have different properties and trade offs, but you can't group them into "better" or "worse" categories.
    You must be joking right??

    6061 series used in cheap mountain bikes
    7000 used in performance.

    Like I said before poor design allied with poor material choice (who knows what they chose) but I bet that the alloy they used was the cheap option.
    diego15nets likes this.
    09-25-2014 03:41 AM
  13. a5cent's Avatar
    You must be joking right??

    6061 series used in cheap mountain bikes
    7000 used in performance.

    Like I said before poor design allied with poor material choice (who knows what they chose) but I bet that the alloy they used was the cheap option.
    Nope. Not joking. Its only what you use it for, that determines if a particular alloy is more or less appropriate. I'm not a specialist when it comes to mountain biking, but I assume 7000 series is preferred because it is less ductile than 6061 (less flex), but that also makes it more brittle. Depending on what you use it for however, 6061 may be the better choice. For example, 6061 is the most common aluminium alloy used in the aerospace industry, which it wouldn't be if it was just plain inferior. In fact, that flex which is undesirable for cycling may be exactly what you'd want for wing construction.

    While 7000 series aluminium is slightly more expensive, for something like an iPhone frame we're talking about just a few cents, if even that. If mountain bikes built out of 7000 series alloys are much more expensive than their 6061 based counterparts, than I suspect that to be a result of the 7000 series alloys being more difficult/expensive to work with, particularly where welding is required.

    Anyway, unless there is some evidence that Apple deliberately chose an aluminium alloy that they knew was a poorer choice for iPhone frame construction, just to save two or three cents per device, I'll remain sceptical. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's impossible. I just don't think it's a conclusion we should jump to.
    09-25-2014 05:01 AM
  14. SAM 77's Avatar
    7000 series is referred to as aerospace grade.

    It has higher yield strength and tensile strength than 6000 series.


    Its lighter and stronger than 6061 which is also used for aerospace applications to save costs.
    09-25-2014 05:03 AM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    7000 series is referred to as aerospace grade.

    It has higher yield strength and tensile strength than 6000 series.


    Its lighter and stronger than 6061 which is also used for aerospace applications to save costs.
    If you are going to argue that 7000 series alloys are better in every conceivable way, which is what it sounds like, then that is just wrong. There is more to it than just yield and tensile strengths. The ability for a material with a crack to resist fracture is another one of hundreds of material properties, and in that regard 6061 trumps 7000 (another one of those properties that are important for the aerospace industry). Corrosion resistance would be another example where 6061 is better, and that probably isn't irrelevant for something like an iPhone. These are just some examples. There are more. One last time... it depends on what you want from a material, that decides which alloy is better and which is worse.

    Anyway, we can argue this all day. Without evidence, I still don't think it makes sense to jump to the conclusion that Apple cheeped out. I'm more inclined to think it's just a result of poor stress testing, or consciously deciding that reduced weight is more important to them than durability.
    09-25-2014 05:30 AM
  16. SAM 77's Avatar
    Your notion of no such thing as cheaper grade is a questionable.
    09-25-2014 05:39 AM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    Your notion of no such thing as cheaper grade is a questionable.
    I know what you mean. I just disagree that tensile strength is the be-all-end-all of material properties. I'm not sure if you understand my point, but let's just agree to disagree and move on.
    09-25-2014 05:44 AM
  18. SAM 77's Avatar
    On a stress strain plot yield and tensile points are a pretty big deal when it comes to materials engineering.
    09-25-2014 05:46 AM
  19. radmanvr's Avatar
    If Jobs were here today he would say, "you are holding it wrong"
    09-25-2014 08:46 AM
  20. psoham777's Avatar
    If Jobs were here today he would say, "you are holding it wrong"

    Yeah, holding it wrong what else could anyone say. There's no particular way to hold any other phone, but for iPhone it definitely is. Great
    09-25-2014 08:47 AM
  21. jaimeastin's Avatar
    On a stress strain plot yield and tensile points are a pretty big deal when it comes to materials engineering.
    This! While I understand how and why it happens... This is a flaw that they should have caught... I guess they were too busy making sure it made you feel like you had a durable and premium phone that made the user feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

    With all that said... IPhone + users need to live with it... Like a car, phone, or any other device... They have flaws.. This one is just getting massive attention...

    If it was any other device, you would just fine this out from the user community, make a decision if you can live and work with that constraint, and in the end, be happy you know what to do...

    This will not stop the sell of the phone or get "many" people to go to a 1520... But hopefully this, the bad update, and other things will bring the super ridiculous iPhone users down to earth... Naw...
    SAM 77 likes this.
    09-25-2014 10:10 AM
  22. mister2d's Avatar
    I know what you mean. I just disagree that tensile strength is the be-all-end-all of material properties. I'm not sure if you understand my point, but let's just agree to disagree and move on.

    Well, there are significant differences in the brands of aluminum foil. The cheaper store distributed brands are certainly not as good as the Reynolds brand, nor are they as good as the food service grade foil. I can see his point on this one. You could reasonably assume Apple choose a grade to keep those profit margins intact.
    09-25-2014 10:37 AM
  23. Live2Deliver's Avatar
    If Jobs were here today he would say, "you are holding it wrong"
    "You are bending it wrong"
    09-25-2014 10:37 AM
  24. mister2d's Avatar
    "You are bending it wrong"

    Or he'd say not to put it in your pocket and still buy my iWatch. Having a huge phone in one hand while having a huge watch on the other since it requires the phone. What a mess.
    Live2Deliver likes this.
    09-25-2014 10:49 AM
  25. 1101x10's Avatar
    Even Heineken is making fun of it.

    https://twitter.com/Heineken_NL/stat...364352/photo/1
    Andrei Dorin and Captains like this.
    09-25-2014 11:07 AM
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