Why Android 5.0 isn't as big of a deal as you think

[chezm]

Don't get me wrong, like I said, Lollipop is most certainly a step-up from KitKat was. The design choices look nice and if they stick with it (and don't drop it like they did with Holo), it has lots of room from improvement. Even if running in native code (ART) isn't giving huge battery gains, it's still much smoother than Dalvik, and that I can appreciate. But I still stand by the fact that Note 4 obliterates the N6 in almost all areas of practical use (besides the looks, the N6 is GORGEOUS).

TouchWiz would like to suggest otherwise. While the Note 4 is probably the best Android phone performance wise on the market, TouchWiz is still considered a "nagging parent" holding it back from true greatness. I mean watch the video reviews and you can clearly see a delay in response from touch. Even MKHBD says Touchwiz hurts Note 4's performance.

 

[chezm]

Try comparing a Material Design application like Play Newsstand to a Metro UI application like Bing News.

You'll find that the Material one is significantly more polished and faster, oh and looks better too.

this, 100%. I know many here HATE Android and that fine but accept it, Lollipop has improved the OS (especially the UI). Its definitely much more efficient, and this is all stock not rooting or custom roms involved. Android 5.0 may not be a big deal to WP fans but its a big deal to Android developers and users of the OS.

 

[Michael Alan Goff]

The Lg G3 is not comparable to the Nexus 6 spec wise or performance wise (based on some reviews i've watched). But ya the N6 is expensive for sure, however id take it over any OEM Android anyday.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad that they're trying a premium device instead of a budget one. I like the idea, even if I don't currently use Android. If I used Android, it'd likely be the Nexus 6.

 

[thesachd]

this, 100%. I know many here HATE Android and that fine but accept it, Lollipop has improved the OS (especially the UI). Its definitely much more efficient, and this is all stock not rooting or custom roms involved. Android 5.0 may not be a big deal to WP fans but its a big deal to Android developers and users of the OS.

This is one of the recent applications that got optimised for Material Design. Damn she's a beauty. It's Reddit Sync if anyone's asking.

I honestly preferred Metro UI over Holo in quite a few instances, but I had quite a lot of gripes with Metro the main one being how inconsistent text was throughout the UI. In some places there'd be huge headers/titles, like the settings app/Facebook Messenger app/ Windows Store and under it the text would be way way smaller.

And the huge titles really left much less space to view any content at all.

That's what I personally love about Material, it gets out of your way to let you view content while still being beautiful with the colours and animations. There are a few rough edges with Material Design but I'm sure they'll be ironed out soon enough.

 

[KhawarNadeem]

If I am not wrong the thread intended to discuss Android 5.0 and device comparisons less, but I'll still answer your queries.

They both go hand in hand in my opinion. Have a look at this recent article:
AnandTech | Encryption and Storage Performance in Android 5.0 Lollipop

Google did people wrong with FDE. The Nexus 6 is of course a very powerful device and its real-world performance won't suffer because of this encryption. The Nexus 4/5 don't get this performance penalty because only new devices that ship with Lollipop will have this enabled by default.

The drops in performance will be felt by devices that don't run on powerful hardware. The N6 benchmarks slower than the N5 with encryption on. Imagine what kind of mess the lower-end devices will suffer.

So, I wouldn't say the 5.0 is without its faults. Even if it does many things right, it gets plenty of them wrong.

 

[thesachd]

They both go hand in hand in my opinion. Have a look at this recent article:
AnandTech | Encryption and Storage Performance in Android 5.0 Lollipop

Google did people wrong with FDE. The Nexus 6 is of course a very powerful device and its real-world performance won't suffer because of this encryption. The Nexus 4/5 don't get this performance penalty because only new devices that ship with Lollipop will have this enabled by default.

The drops in performance will be felt by devices that don't run on powerful hardware. The N6 benchmarks slower than the N5 with encryption on. Imagine what kind of mess the lower-end devices will suffer.

So, I wouldn't say the 5.0 is without its faults. Even if it does many things right, it gets plenty of them wrong.

Encryption worries me too. It worries me too. :/

 

[etad putta]

And another lollipop delay, it's vaporware until it makes it to YOUR device...Android Lollipop for Google Play Edition HTC One (M8) and (M7) delayed until further notice | 9to5Google

 

[thesachd]

And another lollipop delay, it's vaporware until it makes it to YOUR device...Android Lollipop for Google Play Edition HTC One (M8) and (M7) delayed until further notice | 9to5Google

Please tell me how all Lumia devices received Lumia Cyan the same day. -_-

 

[satrus08]

Please tell me how all Lumia devices received Lumia Cyan the same day. -_-

He wasn't comparing, just stating a fact.

On topic:
And actually I'm an android user, and many people will agree with me when I say this, just check Android central, once you get passed the hype, there actually isn't much to lollipop. Especially to the general consumer. But what they did change makes a huge difference. The new UI and UX and how things are accessed. I personally don't like the new look and feel but many people do. Actually many people are pretty divided on the new looks.

One thing can't be argued against though, some places they definitely went form over functionality. And all those bright colors and white, without offering a dark theme!

But I base this off of reading and watching many reviews since I don't have lollipop yet. So I'm not going to write it off completely until I try it. Probably won't update my device until I try it on a friend's phone first though.

 

[EBUK]

What is it with the Play, Record and Stop buttons in Lollipop?

I can only imagine they reflect how Android is a data collecting device for Google...

Play button (triangle) plays back data back to Google (confirming what it has already recorded)
Record button (circle) records all future data directly to Google's servers
Stop button (square) negates all privacy options you've invoked, and allows the phone to collect more data until you reset your privacy preferences.

It doesn't matter how good Android looks, it will always be a device for data harvesting.

 

[thesachd]

What is it with the Play, Record and Stop buttons in Lollipop?

I can only imagine they reflect how Android is a data collecting device for Google...

Play button (triangle) plays back data back to Google (confirming what it has already recorded)
Record button (circle) records all future data directly to Google's servers
Stop button (square) negates all privacy options you've invoked, and allows the phone to collect more data until you reset your privacy preferences.

It doesn't matter how good Android looks, it will always be a device for data harvesting.

-_-

I wish you had proof to back up that statement.

 

[EBUK]

Just my imagination at work. The only thing for certain is that Google harvests data! (And so does MS, although to a lesser degree, I suspect.)

 

[a5cent]

The only thing for certain is that Google harvests data! (And so does MS, although to a lesser degree, I suspect.)

This is not really a useful way of thinking about the issue, although it is common. Every IT service collects data. It's impossible to provide people access to e-mails for example, if the service provider doesn't collect those e-mails! It's impossible to sort people's photographs by date, and present them in that order, if those cloud storage services can't extract that date from a photograph's EXIF data! Basically, it's impossible to build such services without having software at least partially inspect the data that is uploaded to their servers, which is why all cloud service providers must admit to doing so. That makes the ToS of all cloud service providers sound very similar. The differences are only in the details, but those details can have significant consequences.

One of the biggest differences is how and what else the collected data is used for! Google is the only company that combines all the data collected from across its various services into a single and centralized behavioural profile. MS doesn't allow it's various services to exchange information in that way. Google also fails to precisely specify which 3rd parties are provided access to that information, implying that is their business alone. MS however specifically states that the only 3rd parties given access to that information are the IT workers that administer their various data centres across the world. Despite looking rather minor, those are huge differences, upon which the continued cooperation between MS and many of their enterprise customers depends.

Behind the scenes, MS and Google are two very different companies with completely different business models. Both companies have very different incentives when it comes to user's data. For one company it's practically the only way to earn money, which is why Google's CEO frequently take the position that nothing should be private. MS on the other hand has a lot of money riding on their ability to keep their customer's data confidential. In many ways they are the complete opposites of each other.

To be fair, Google does allow you to take complete control of your information, in a far more comprehensive way than MS does. Very few people make use of those capabilities however.

 

[thesachd]

This is not really a useful way of thinking about the issue, although it is common. Every IT service collects data. It's impossible to provide people access to e-mails for example, if the service provider doesn't collect those e-mails! It's impossible to sort people's photographs by date, and present them in that order, if those cloud storage services can't extract that date from a photograph's EXIF data! Basically, it's impossible to build such services without having software at least partially inspect the data that is uploaded to their servers, which is why all cloud service providers must admit to doing so. That makes the ToS of all cloud service providers sound very similar. The differences are only in the details, but those details can have significant consequences.

One of the biggest difference is how and what else the collected data is used for! Google is the only company that combines all the data collected from across its various services into a single and centralized behavioural profile. MS doesn't allow it's various services to exchange information in that way. Google also fails to precisely specify which 3rd parties are provided access to that information, implying that is their business alone. MS however specifically states that the only 3rd parties given access to that information are the IT workers that administer their various data centres across the world. Despite looking rather minor, those are huge differences, upon which the continued cooperation between MS and many of their enterprise customers depends.

Behind the scenes, MS and Google are two very different companies with completely different business models. Both companies have very different incentives when it comes to user's data. For one company it's practically the only way to earn money, which is why their CEO frequently take the position that nothing should be private. MS on the other hand has a lot of money riding on their ability to keep their customers data confidential. In many ways they are the complete opposite of each other.

To be fair, Google does allow you to take complete control of your information, in a far more comprehensive way than MS does. Very few people make use of those capabilities however.

You are one of the most well informed people on this forum. Even when you have disagreed with me, you've provided proof for it.

You sir deserve to be a mod!

 

[a5cent]

You are one of the most well informed people on this forum. Even when you have disagreed with me, you've provided proof for it.

You sir deserve to be a mod!

Thank you for that compliment! TBH though, being informed is not the most important thing if you want to be a mod. Social competence is, and I think in that regard many of the mods can 1up me. :wink:

 

[KhawarNadeem]

Please tell me how all Lumia devices received Lumia Cyan the same day. -_-

Haha. This undeniable burn.
I'm with you on this one. People bash Android for not getting updates on time, but at least Google's own Nexus devices get updates at the same time, and if they don't get them OTA, the images are uploaded so people can help themselves.

The only company who gets OTA right is Apple. Neither Google, nor Microsoft (with all this firmware update mess) get the updates globally on time. Carrier devices delays, fine, but unlocked devices, nope. The general public doesn't know about Preview For Developers anyway, so it doesn't count. The 8.1/Cyan rollout was a mess.

 

[Steve Adams]

Haha. This undeniable burn.
I'm with you on this one. People bash Android for not getting updates on time, but at least Google's own Nexus devices get updates at the same time, and if they don't get them OTA, the images are uploaded so people can help themselves.

The only company who gets OTA right is Apple. Neither Google, nor Microsoft (with all this firmware update mess) get the updates globally on time. Carrier devices delays, fine, but unlocked devices, nope. The general public doesn't know about Preview For Developers anyway, so it doesn't count. The 8.1/Cyan rollout was a mess.

Still not 1/1000 th as bad as every android roll out ever released. First android releases a new OS, then the phone manufacturers get it, sit with their thumbs up their collective asses for 3 - 6 months, then after they get around to doing something with it, the service providers then get new android from the phone makers. Then the service providers take another 3-6 months again with their thumbs up their collective asses trying to figure out what to add/take away from said new android so they can get the most money out of it (i.e. advertising installed). So your have a 6-12 month wait for new android to get to most devices. by that time, google has already released a new version again. Android is so fragmented that its a free for all , from google themselves, to the phone makers, to the carriers. Its a mess really. At least MS has one major build for its os being supported, and Is supporting updating all phones running 8.1 to get 10. I have to say Apple is the best for updates. But I see MS going this route soon to keep phone manufacturers and carriers out of the equation.

I know when I was using android phones and ICS was switching to JB, My galaxy phone had to wait 8 months before it was supported. And then Im sure it wasn't even tested as it lagged so bad it was un useable.

At least when a new MS update comes out, I know its smooth and works as intended on whatever device its downloaded too. 8.1 is smooth on my 1020 as it is on my 520.

As for your comment about android images being available to use, The general public does not know about that either. So how can you even make that an issue? The general public does not root their phones, and side load images just as the General public does not use developers preview. Actually I bet more users per ratio use DP than root their androids as the processes is way more simple than trying to root.

 

[Poirots Progeny]

Still not 1/1000 th as bad as every android roll out ever released. First android releases a new OS, then the phone manufacturers get it, sit with their thumbs up their collective asses for 3 - 6 months, then after they get around to doing something with it, the service providers then get new android from the phone makers. Then the service providers take another 3-6 months again with their thumbs up their collective asses trying to figure out what to add/take away from said new android so they can get the most money out of it (i.e. advertising installed). So your have a 6-12 month wait for new android to get to most devices. by that time, google has already released a new version again. Android is so fragmented that its a free for all , from google themselves, to the phone makers, to the carriers. Its a mess really. At least MS has one major build for its os being supported, and Is supporting updating all phones running 8.1 to get 10. I have to say Apple is the best for updates. But I see MS going this route soon to keep phone manufacturers and carriers out of the equation.

I know when I was using android phones and ICS was switching to JB, My galaxy phone had to wait 8 months before it was supported. And then Im sure it wasn't even tested as it lagged so bad it was un useable.

At least when a new MS update comes out, I know its smooth and works as intended on whatever device its downloaded too. 8.1 is smooth on my 1020 as it is on my 520.

As for your comment about android images being available to use, The general public does not know about that either. So how can you even make that an issue? The general public does not root their phones, and side load images just as the General public does not use developers preview. Actually I bet more users per ratio use DP than root their androids as the processes is way more simple than trying to root.

Well said, though Samsung, htc and lg are all going to be getting lollipop by the end of the year - so at least they're trying to push it out. Though what carriers will do with it Lord only knows

 

[KhawarNadeem]

As for your comment about android images being available to use, The general public does not know about that either. So how can you even make that an issue? The general public does not root their phones, and side load images just as the General public does not use developers preview. Actually I bet more users per ratio use DP than root their androids as the processes is way more simple than trying to root.

Well, the images *are* only for Nexus devices which aren't intended to be consumer devices anyway... PFD is still way better, of course, since even if those images don't require rooting, it's still a longer process than PFD.
Android updates, for non-Nexus, non-(recent)Moto, and non-PlayEdition phones are really very horrible. Of which Samsung has likely the worst track record, since their updates are either very late or don't come at all. There are even rumors that year's S4 might not get Lollipop at all.

Android OEMs have no accountability. That's what stops them. Google doesn't care. MS *does* care, though. At least about updates, no matter if they're timely or not. I really hope to see the update process becoming as smooth as the iPhones, or even Nexus series, especially for the in-house Lumia devices, since they're the Nexus equivalents in the WP space.

 

[thesachd]

Well, the images *are* only for Nexus devices which aren't intended to be consumer devices anyway... PFD is still way better, of course, since even if those images don't require rooting, it's still a longer process than PFD.
Android updates, for non-Nexus, non-(recent)Moto, and non-PlayEdition phones are really very horrible. Of which Samsung has likely the worst track record, since their updates are either very late or don't come at all. There are even rumors that year's S4 might not get Lollipop at all.

Android OEMs have no accountability. That's what stops them. Google doesn't care. MS *does* care, though. At least about updates, no matter if they're timely or not. I really hope to see the update process becoming as smooth as the iPhones, or even Nexus series, especially for the in-house Lumia devices, since they're the Nexus equivalents in the WP space.

Google does care actually it tried for OEMs to sign an 18 month update cycle agreement. Sadly not many agreed.