12-07-2014 09:01 AM
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  1. gapost's Avatar
    I used to recommend Windows Phone to all my friends and as the Verizon handler for our company, put WP in a lot of user's hands. I can't recommend Windows Phone anymore and let people get whichever Android or iPhone they want.
    11-14-2014 12:02 PM
  2. neo158's Avatar
    I think we can all agree that Docs and iWork might as well be nothing ;p
    True but it doesn't change the fact that Android and iOS actually have something!!!
    11-14-2014 12:05 PM
  3. tgp's Avatar
    Windows Phone had Office exclusively for *years* while iOS/Android had absolutely *nothing.*
    Not really. They had nothing official, but there were plenty of 3rd party Office apps, and some of them were, and still are, better than Microsoft's Office apps.
    11-14-2014 12:10 PM
  4. kristalsoldier's Avatar
    The problem is that with no focus on the ~3% it just won't grow so, yes they are in a position to and if fact NEED to appease that ~3% in order to gain any significant market share. It's perfectly fine to have your services on ALL platforms but when that is at the expense of your own platform then that's a problem.

    My point is that most of the ~3% won't wait indefinitely so it's all well and good saying wait for Windows 10 but what happens if it doesn't deliver?
    I see what you are saying, but it appears that the current disposition at the highest levels at MS don't agree with the point of view that you are espousing. To then, the cost of 3% of the market is minimal and whatever they imagine the payoff from the rest of the 97% is much more valuable. Another way to put this would be to say that for the movers and shakers in MS, we - you, me and the rest of the WP fan-base, if I can call us that - are irrelevant, that is to say, collateral damage and not really worth a second thought. Its really a harsh and cold world in the spreadsheets and forecast reports of financial analysts, you know!
    theefman, neo158 and a5cent like this.
    11-14-2014 12:21 PM
  5. Jas00555's Avatar
    Not really. They had nothing official, but there were plenty of 3rd party Office apps, and some of them were, and still are, better than Microsoft's Office apps.
    Ironically, that exact same argument ("well, its not official, but it's 3rd party and better!") is a notion that many WP users use to defend the platform, yet it is apparently dismissed.
    tgp, neo158 and a5cent like this.
    11-14-2014 12:22 PM
  6. cbreze's Avatar
    Wait for 7.5
    Wait for 7.8
    Wait for 8.0
    Wait for 8.1
    Wait for 10
    we been waiting much?
    11-14-2014 12:29 PM
  7. theefman's Avatar
    To the OP, you may not like where MS is going but apparently investors do. Insider trading is illegal, wink wink, but it seems that people with more money than me know what direction MS is taking and they seem fine with it. For the last time, for the VERY last time, Microsoft is not in the position to appease to a user base that constitutes only +/- 3% of the market. They will hone their craft and offer their services for the 97%. That be where the money be. It's not a difficult concept to comprehend.
    No one will dispute that its a beneficial move to Microsoft and so the money markets being pleased with it is not a surprise. But is it a requirement to ignore the 3% userbase they cultivated? Apart from Office wouldn't you get a higher proportion of WP users actively using MS services vs the percentage of ios and android users who already have access to services they are used to? E.g. Skype vs Facetime? Isn't that a reason to make sure their own platform is well served and kept competitive so it can grow?

    Let's put it another way. Microsoft released Windows Phone in 2010 to a less than enthusiastic public. There were plenty of reviews touting what it could and could not do, yet people bought them. This was not an invitation-only situation where you didn't know what you were getting until the device landed in your hands. If the device did not suit your needs, why did you purchase it? You don't buy something based on speculation of what could happen, you go on the here and now. That's no different than marrying a skinny chick and hoping she'll get a boob job and some buttocks implants.
    No new platform is born complete, there will always be areas where they have to catch up. ios and android required updated to get where they are today (and still do receive updates today), why should WP at its inception have been any different? If no one invested in a new platform would any mobile platform exist at all? WP7 was introduced over 4 years ago and at the time, as with any new platform it was a reasonable expectation that Microsoft would release updates that would improve the experience so that is no argument against buying into the platform back then.

    But when you look at the situation today with Microsoft and 3rd party developers basically giving it the cold shoulder then yes, anyone looking at WP now should have pause before buying into it. Because the overwhelming message being sent today and the reality of Microsoft's new strategy is that WP has no value to Microsoft and there is no advantage to going with the platform as you will get the best of Microsoft, along with the best of everything else, if you go with the other platforms.

    Another way to put this would be to say that for the movers and shakers in MS, we - you, me and the rest of the WP fan-base, if I can call us that - are irrelevant, that is to say, collateral damage and not really worth a second thought.
    Pretty much what I'm trying to say.
    neo158 and Silence#WP like this.
    11-14-2014 12:36 PM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    Ironically, that exact same argument ("well, its not official, but it's 3rd party and better!") is a notion that many WP users use to defend the platform, yet it is apparently dismissed.
    That crossed my mind when I wrote the post, but I didn't want to fuel the flame!

    Sent from whatever device I happen to be using today using Tapatalk
    11-14-2014 12:49 PM
  9. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The problem is that with no focus on the ~3% it just won't grow so, yes they are in a position to and if fact NEED to appease that ~3% in order to gain any significant market share. It's perfectly fine to have your services on ALL platforms but when that is at the expense of your own platform then that's a problem.

    My point is that most of the ~3% won't wait indefinitely so it's all well and good saying wait for Windows 10 but what happens if it doesn't deliver?
    In the grand scheme of things, Microsoft - or any other company, wouldn't give 2 sh**s about such a low user base. It's always been the argument for dev support and I can't blame them. I'm not defending MS but we live in a real world that has been taken over by greed and profits. I don't like it but there ain't much I can do except learn how to make it work for me. Call me a ho but I'm not married to any company or technology.
    neo158 likes this.
    11-14-2014 01:03 PM
  10. neo158's Avatar
    In the grand scheme of things, Microsoft - or any other company, wouldn't give 2 sh**s about such a low user base. It's always been the argument for dev support and I can't blame them. I'm not defending MS but we live in a real world that has been taken over by greed and profits. I don't like it but there ain't much I can do except learn how to make it work for me. Call me a ho but I'm not married to any company or technology.
    I would completely agree if we were talking about a competitors platform like BB10 but we're talking about a Microsoft platform.

    Yes, they should have their services on other platforms but WP should be first with new features with other platforms following.
    Hoekie likes this.
    11-14-2014 01:08 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I would completely agree if we were talking about a competitors platform like BB10 but we're talking about a Microsoft platform.

    Yes, they should have their services on other platforms but WP should be first with new features with other platforms following.
    Food for thought - would it not make sense to have iOS and Android users be Guinea Pigs for new features, get feedback and incorporate any fixes or improvements on the Mother Ship? I know that would be my strategy. Microsoft is not losing any ground to anybody as far as Office is concerned anytime soon. Why not use 97% of the world's mobile users as your developmental engineers?
    neo158, neo158, L Beezy and 1 others like this.
    11-14-2014 01:23 PM
  12. plot_almighty's Avatar
    Food for thought - would it not make sense to have iOS and Android users be Guinea Pigs for new features, get feedback and incorporate any fixes or improvements on the Mother Ship? I know that would be my strategy. Microsoft is not losing any ground to anybody as far as Office is concerned anytime soon. Why not use 97% of the world's mobile users as your developmental engineers?
    I second this wholeheartedly. Use your competitors as a test bed for your core consumer services, minus Xbox Music which gets next to no love on iOS, and then bring the results home. Too many people spoiled on the idea of how Apple and Google approach things. Keep in mind Ballmer was doing the copycat routine, IE promising the "best experience is on WP", like Apple and Google do, and you see where that went.

    I'm saying Nadella is doing it right. I fully support where he's going with things.
    11-14-2014 01:43 PM
  13. neo158's Avatar
    Food for thought - would it not make sense to have iOS and Android users be Guinea Pigs for new features, get feedback and incorporate any fixes or improvements on the Mother Ship? I know that would be my strategy. Microsoft is not losing any ground to anybody as far as Office is concerned anytime soon. Why not use 97% of the world's mobile users as your developmental engineers?
    Now that's another way of looking at it as well. However wouldn't testing be better on a smaller userbase first? I suppose there's no right or wrong way, it's just that WP is still playing catchup in a lot of areas.

    I did set up my Galaxy Nexus again to try Office Mobile and on Android it's just as bad, I was unable to edit the same document I was unable to edit on Windows Phone. I haven't tried iOS yet though.
    11-14-2014 01:48 PM
  14. plot_almighty's Avatar
    Now that's another way of looking at it as well. However wouldn't testing be better on a smaller userbase first? I suppose there's no right or wrong way, it's just that WP is still playing catchup in a lot of areas.

    I did set up my Galaxy Nexus again to try Office Mobile and on Android it's just as bad, I was unable to edit the same document I was unable to edit on Windows Phone. I haven't tried iOS yet though.
    Nadella has gone on record of saying MS is a "Services and Cloud first" company now. In three strokes he 1) gives other platforms the great Office apps, 2) secures a very large test group on more mature platforms, and 3) adheres to his vision of what MS should be and has been since its founding: A software company.
    11-14-2014 01:56 PM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Now that's another way of looking at it as well. However wouldn't testing be better on a smaller userbase first? I suppose there's no right or wrong way, it's just that WP is still playing catchup in a lot of areas.

    I did set up my Galaxy Nexus again to try Office Mobile and on Android it's just as bad, I was unable to edit the same document I was unable to edit on Windows Phone. I haven't tried iOS yet though.
    Office needs no introduction. I doubt any of the differences, if there are any critical ones, are to be classified as deal breakers. The more feedback, the better. I guess, I'm just a PM scratching out a living. I'll leave those decisions to Nadella.
    11-14-2014 02:04 PM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Still feel MS is heading in the wrong direction?

    Apple vs. Microsoft: Race is on for #1 | America's Markets
    Laura Knotek and Hoekie like this.
    11-14-2014 02:27 PM
  17. segasaturn's Avatar
    It's clear to me that when Nadella took over he wanted to de-emphasize MS as a hardware company and focus on promoting MS services on different platforms. He's basically said himself that he doesn't care what device you are using as long as you are using their services (Xbox Music, Bing, Skype) ect. With this kind of logic what is the point of even maintaining WP anymore? If you are making money from your services (which by all accounts they are) why even bother with pleasing the 3% of your audience who actually cares about hardware and who love their WP. They don't need WP anymore. That 3% is like nothing to MS, and I highly doubt they have any regard for if they are pissed off or feel slighted by getting slapped in the face with better software releases on other platforms.

    It's sad because I really believed MS had a unique and different vision for how they going to integrate software and hardware together to provide great experiences for their customers who bought into that vision.
    11-14-2014 02:42 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    Still feel MS is heading in the wrong direction?

    Apple vs. Microsoft: Race is on for #1 | America's Markets
    I'd say that Microsoft has got a LONG way to go before it's #1 lol

    ----------

    @op
    If you truly believe that Microsoft is headed in the wrong direction, you might want to read this.

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...crosoft-stock/

    TL;DR Congress is investing a lot of money in Microsoft to "invest in the future". Actually, they're investing more in Microsoft than they are in any tech company! The closest is Apple at #5. Does that sound like a company headed in the wrong direction?
    11-14-2014 02:44 PM
  19. segasaturn's Avatar
    It's not just about money. I don't care if they're the most valuable company in America. I care that they support the products which they produce and care enough about their core audience to use some of those resources to reward them for being the hardcore fans who truly support them.
    neo158 likes this.
    11-14-2014 02:48 PM
  20. Jas00555's Avatar
    It's not just about money. .
    Lol sure....
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    11-14-2014 03:01 PM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I'd say that Microsoft has got a LONG way to go before it's #1 lol

    ----------

    @op
    If you truly believe that Microsoft is headed in the wrong direction, you might want to read this.

    Congress bets big on Apple, Microsoft stock | Ars Technica

    TL;DR Congress is investing a lot of money in Microsoft to "invest in the future". Actually, they're investing more in Microsoft than they are in any tech company! The closest is Apple at #5. Does that sound like a company headed in the wrong direction?
    It figures Pfizer would be on that list with Congress. Gotta have that little blue pill!
    11-14-2014 03:14 PM
  22. theefman's Avatar
    Still feel MS is heading in the wrong direction?

    Apple vs. Microsoft: Race is on for #1 | America's Markets
    I think we all agree Microsoft is on the right track as a company. However as a WP user the low marketshare leads to situations like this: Snapchat is clamping down on 6snap and third-party apps, threatens to lock accounts | Windows Central. With Microsoft concentrating on ios and android and giving the impression they don't care about WP marketshare this is likely to get worse before it gets better.

    And just reading the comments shows the irony: people blasting Snapchat for not having an official WP app and asking why WP users are ignored. This is an example of how a WP user's experience is less enjoyable as a result of the small marketshare that Microsoft seems uninterested in increasing and why increasing WP marketshare should be an equal focus for Microsoft as well as putting their services on other platforms.
    Last edited by theefman; 11-14-2014 at 03:30 PM.
    neo158 likes this.
    11-14-2014 03:15 PM
  23. pedmar007's Avatar
    STOP with this marketshare BS!!! Marketshare truly means 0 when making a quality app. If an app is made with proper quality and it's one that's always used no matter the OS it's on it WILL be downloaded and used. MS has no excuse for making poorer quality apps for WP than it does for IOS and Android. We keep using this marketshare as a crux each and every time but it still makes anyone who uses the app accept it's lack less easier to accept. Any app created should be done with equal functionality compared to all OSes it's on, the only limitation should be the OEM's hardware if that's applicable. I should never see facebook messenger on IOS and Android have the call feature and not WP. There's no IPhone or Android device that stands head and shoulders above the L1520 and that's a device running last year's tech and you're telling me that any app installed on it would have difficulty in its rendering, YEAH F....G RIGHT!!!!!

    Stop with the constant market share BS as that's really 0 excuse for making any ****ty app. It's ANDROID -> IOS -> WP = 3 OSes, and to make an equal app for all three would = to $$ from all 3 OSES not 2 and not the 3rd as anybody wanting to buy a WP would do so knowing that they can get app parity on it and be satisfied. Tell me the ***** COMMERCIALIST that prefers income from 2 sources instead of income from 3!!!!!!!!!!!

    Answer me this I'm a car maker and I'm selling cars that go up against Toyota, Mazda, Kia etc, am I to make a car that brakes needs changing every month, seat belts lock up on you suddenly, gas guzzler etc. Because I have a small market share has no basis for me to make crappy cars that no one will want and then I'm spending money on TV ads trying to sell those same cars. If MS isn't entirely interested in WP, then stop with the TV ads for Cortana on a WP, stop having the CEO make announcements, get Joe Belfiore to get a better haircut and get a job at Google. Stop announcing this update in WP OS and that update as YOU don't care so just stop.
    11-14-2014 05:16 PM
  24. Ruined's Avatar
    A snippet from my post:
    Windows Phone had Office exclusively for *years* while iOS/Android had absolutely *nothing.*
    Responses:
    You're wrong, iOS has iWork and Android has Docs, Sheets and Slides so, no they haven't had "absolutely *nothing.*"
    True but it doesn't change the fact that Android and iOS actually have something!!!
    Not really. They had nothing official, but there were plenty of 3rd party Office apps, and some of them were, and still are, better than Microsoft's Office apps.
    My response:
    Actually, I'm right - in context. The OP I responded to was about Microsoft Office and Microsoft apps, not about Random Productivity Suite #5 by {Insert non-Microsoft developer here}. And, Windows Phone had Microsoft Office exclusively for *years* while once again iOS/Android had nothing. Yes, they had iOS/Android imitation apps but given the OP is lamenting Microsoft-authored apps that is 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

    So once again, I find it extremely short-sighted and odd to be lamenting about the latest and greatest app, when we've had exclusivity to that suite for years while the competition had nothing, and we all well know Microsoft is putting their efforts into a W10 version (~6 months away) as Microsoft has already said so! iOS/Android users waited years and years with no MS Office at all, I really think Windows Phone users can wait 6 months to get their app updated to the latest and greatest version.

    Finally, why is the Verge framing this as "Microsoft is screwing over its users" (baloney) rather than "Microsoft is by far the most cross-platform friendly company out of the big three" (reality)? Answer: Because they have always been biased against Microsoft and Windows Phone.
    Last edited by Ruined; 11-14-2014 at 05:31 PM.
    11-14-2014 05:19 PM
  25. neo158's Avatar
    A snippet from my post:


    Responses:




    My response:
    Actually, I'm right - in context. The OP I responded to was about Microsoft Office and Microsoft apps, not about Random Productivity Suite #5 by {Insert non-Microsoft developer here}. And, Windows Phone had Microsoft Office for *years* while once again iOS/Android had nothing. Yes, they had iOS/Android imitation apps but given the OP is lamenting Microsoft-authored apps that is 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

    So once again, I find it extremely short-sighted and odd to be lamenting about the latest and greatest app, when we've had exclusivity to that suite for years while the competition had nothing, and we all well know Microsoft is putting their efforts into a W10 version (~6 months away) as Microsoft has already said so!

    Finally, why is the Verge framing this as "Microsoft is screwing over its users" (baloney) rather than "Microsoft is by far the most cross-platform friendly company out of the big three" (reality)? Answer: Because they have always been biased against Microsoft and Windows Phone.
    I just pointed out that they have their own Office applications so why are you bothering to have a go at me?
    11-14-2014 05:30 PM
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