10-24-2016 10:50 PM
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  1. Joe920's Avatar
    I've been looking into moving to Android recently, mainly because of the apps situation, but the camera is very important to me too, so after quitea bit of reading, I decided that the only option for me was a Samsung Galaxy S6. I was almost ready to push the button on this but then read about the battery life which according to even the most positive reviews stated that it would be unlikely to make it through to bed time. This was the deal breaker for me, probably going to stick with my L950 for at least a while longer, it's 9pm here now and I have 45% battery still remaining. Also, I just convinced a relative to switch to a 950, can't really do that and then jump ship myself straight after...
    Hey, you're still here! :) I'd say at least wait what Google has in store for us two weeks from now. Given the pricing rumors that have been going around the Pixel should be a high end phone. That's the one I'm waiting for before taking another look at an iPhone 6S plus.
    09-19-2016 04:33 PM
  2. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I agree that's bad at the moment. Elsewhere I argued that the proliferation of tablets would drive the development of UWP apps for tablets, and if enabling those on phones were easy enough the ecosystem would naturally grow with almost zero promotion of Windows Phone. It's all going pretty slowly though, so I honestly don't know what will happen. Definitely interesting times.
    I've been here from a HPC 1.0... to PocketPC and all the way to Windows Phone (first day I could get one) and after about 6 WP devices, I think I gave up. THOUSANDS of dollars on Microsoft gear just myself.

    And this is another product they have done this to. Microsoft has a history of just dropping support on stuff or doing very little with it and hope it takes off. They did this with other products and guess what ? They also failed. Windows Phone is going down this same path.

    UWP is a nice thing on paper but, it's about 5-6 years too late. With Windows Phone share now around 1% devs wont even bother in a lot of cases just do to the support needed to support the app.

    Microsoft did a very dumb thing with Windows Phone... Putting all the money into ads, what they should of done is put a lot of money into promotions for sales people. The biggest thing was sales people bashing windows Phone when someone when people would look at it.

    Anyway about it, Microsoft has invested BILLIONS in Windows Phone / Mobile. Their return on it is not even close. The writing is on the wall. It may take 5 years but, sooner or later Microsoft will stop losing money from Windows Phone....

    Remember, Microsoft is a business, they are there to make money, when something loses money, it's just a matter of time before they cut it off...

    I really wish they would do something but, at this point, I don't have much hope...any more
    09-19-2016 09:11 PM
  3. CharlieWade's Avatar
    I used to work for a certain wireless company in sales and the Microsoft/Nokia phones hardly ever left the shelf. One person came in asking for the newest Lumia and all of our reps had no idea what it was. What we need is an Android Surface phone with widgets that enable Lumia fans to keep some of the functions they are used to. If Microsoft follows Blackberry in finally admitting they need to make the switch, they have a future in the mobile phone world.
    09-19-2016 10:04 PM
  4. FXi2's Avatar
    Frankly the market leaders aren't going anywhere. The year after year of their pulling ahead is over. Margins on Android are atrocious, and frankly 50% of the market is not sustainable. Carriers are lowering prices, even they feel the pressure of the saturation. In a saturated market a well resourced, well organized opponent can go far. We tend to think of things failing in months in this market. Yet iPhone is almost 10 years old. They didn't get here overnight, neither did Android and neither will Windows mobile.
    A couple years ago forums were ablaze that there was no possible way MS could succeed with Surface, that they were doomed to drop it. I note the same issues now as then. The product is good, and none of the other competitors has a better core product. It will take time (and yes marketing) but the time to really blaze the market isn't quite here yet. Look at the X3 selling out so many times. It's not changing fortune by itself, but it's fulfilling a market desire. That is the sign to pay attention to. Some part of the market truly wants these devices. NY Police Dept and BMW all going Windows phone. Airlines using entirely Surface tablets. Things are changing. Just not in terms of weeks. This is a longplay game because the others have had years of lead time.
    09-19-2016 10:57 PM
  5. pedmar007's Avatar
    complete waste of time. there's no business/enterprise users who leave their phones at work and return the next to start back again. All of these supposed "target" segments are regular *** people like you and me who go to the bathroom, brush teeth, eat, drink, work out, watch our kids at games, school plays, watch tv, regular *** people. So when MS have this warped idea that enterprise or business are made up of "special" terminator robots then hey who're we to argue.
    Timbre70 and aximtreo like this.
    09-19-2016 11:27 PM
  6. BMT001's Avatar
    I think Windows 10 mobile does have a future but quite a few things need to happen. I am a recent or semi recent convert from Andriod. I have a business background and own two successful small businesses. One retail store and one wholesale business. Windows 10 mobile will only succeed if Microsoft wants it to succeed.Just like most things in life it comes down to money. 1.Put out a quality product. I have both a 950 and a 950 XL both outstanding and twice the phone my Note 5 is. 2. Advertise!! How many Surface ads have you seen? A ton! Does everybody know about them? You bet. Most people don't even know that Microsoft has a mobile OS. Ask your coworkers and friends most people have know idea. Techy geeks like me sure, but the average guy that uses his phone for calls, texting and youtube no. People translate Microsoft into quality there name alone will sell them. 3. Have different models in different price ranges. Not every one can afford a $800 X3 or even a $500 phone. There is a reason people use the NEXT program and others like it. $25 per month for 2 years is more affordable than $800 right now. 4. Promotions. Sure they are promoting now but that's to liquidate inventory. Run deals on new or slightly older models to get people to try it. Run spiffs for sales people. Money motivates people. Hey if a salesman can make extra money by just selling a better product I guarantee they at least show people the Windows products. 4. Carriers. For Gods sakes if a guy has had Verizon for 10 years don't make him switch just to be able to get your phone. The big 4 has to carry them. Not just AT&T. 5. Knowledge. Go into any cellphone store and ask them about Windows phones. They will look at you like you have 3 eyes at least most will. There may be one guy that is a techy geek like me that loves them. But of course they don't carry them or only have one in stock. Knowledge is important. Microsoft should have a rep come in to every store and train the salesman. Every industries does this!! If customers come into my store I better know the answer and my staff should know also. I mean that is a salesmans job to know the product they are selling. 6. APPS. This is a big one for the younger crowd. I am a 45yr old man. The windows store has all of the apps I need. If not I just pin the website to my start page if there isn't an app. But the young generation such as my daughters are app crazy. They both use Iphones and they have an app on their phone for everything. Mobile is the future more and more people use their phone for everything. The world isn't moving towards a wired society its moving towards a wireless one. With 5G on the horizon. Wouldn't you want to be a main player in the future? I would if I was Microsoft. But does Microsoft want to be in the mobile business is the question. Microsoft has the funds to be a huge player. But it comes down to money. Will they make enough money. At first no. It takes time to build brand recognition and loyalty. I mean Microsoft is huge but Windows 10 mobile is not. Well just my 2 cents.
    aximtreo likes this.
    09-20-2016 01:26 AM
  7. wgs84's Avatar
    I hope it will
    So do I. I need a third option in case Google decides to do something stupid again. Google restricting the SD card write permissions in KitKat was the ultimate reason why I switched to Windows Phone in 2014. I switched back to Android this year, but if Google ever does something like that again, I'd like to have Windows Mobile to turn to because iOS is my least favorite.
    09-20-2016 02:22 AM
  8. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    $25 per month for 2 years is more affordable than $800 right now.
    so the 25USD option is cheaper than the 800 one time payment? How does that work?
    09-20-2016 02:29 AM
  9. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    so the 25USD option is cheaper than the 800 one time payment? How does that work?
    Most people can handle $25/m payment rather than dropping $800 in one shot. It may not work out cheaper but it's a way of getting a phone that you want easily.
    aximtreo likes this.
    09-20-2016 02:44 AM
  10. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Most people can handle $25/m payment rather than dropping $800 in one shot. It may not work out cheaper but it's a way of getting a phone that you want easily.
    25USD per month for 2 years works out to 600USD. This is less than paying 800USD up front. So when did hire purchase become cheaper than one time payments?
    libra89 and aximtreo like this.
    09-20-2016 03:55 AM
  11. Cortana is Skynet's Avatar
    Agree with you mostly except 1. If MS thinks they can attract devs by adding business users, it would be difficult. Most of the enterprises would simply lock down stores so as to block ppl from downloading fun apps on their work phones.
    That's why Microsoft needs to focus on providing personal/business users/sessions/accounts (whatever you want to call it) - each with their own SIM - on the same W10M phone. Business could then lock down Store on the business login/session but you could still switch to your personal login and download your favourite game or dating app or whatever. And the sessions would need to be completely separate from each other (with some possible exceptions, say, notifications, or sharing of calendars, etc.) so both business are assured corporate data is protected and customers can rest knowing that their corporate overlords are not checking their Linkedin job applications, or personal emails and files or (gasp!) which websites they are browsing.

    I see people carrying two phones all the time, sometimes even the same brand of phone (say, 2 iPhones) because the company provides them one (either directly or via BYOD) but they don't want (or are not allowed by MDM policy) to have personal apps and files in them. If they could have complete different sessions on the phone (and assurances that data could not leak into each other) I think most people would then just ditch one of their phones.

    I started using Windows phones when my company issued (basic) Lumia phones to all employees that had a job requirement for a phone. Even though you could buy the phone for something like 50 ($65) retail unlocked, most people were surprised how much they actually liked their Windows device - on an old cheap-as-chips phone!: most were not even aware that windows run on phones. Everyone continued to carry their iPhone or android phone in addition to their corporate issued phone, of course - everyone but me: I just couldn't be arsed to carry two devices that did mostly the same thing. I wonder if more people would have taken my approach if a) the phone was better quality (say a Lumia 950\XL) and b) Windows allowed business and personal sessions to be logged in simultaneously.

    I really think this is one area Microsoft should concentrate next, particularly when they are clearly hoping that those companies that (still) issue devices to their employers (a la old days Blackberry or the new HP Elite X3) do so with Windows devices, due to Windows security (vs. Android) and more customisation (vs. iPhone). And business users are the only significant group of people that is a potential user of a mobile platform without a good number of quality apps such as W10M - thus justifying Microsoft's decision to target them EVEN if they were not Microsoft's main target for the company services as a whole - simply because not having Pokmon GO and Snapchat on your work phone is usually not a deal breaker.

    This (W10M work phones with work/leisure sandboxing) could provide a beachhead for W10M: corporate users would drive demand for apps while using the Windows phone running their personal sessions. Even in a BYOD environment, the ability to sandbox work and personal sessions on the same phone might be an interesting niche for that group of people who, like me, can't be bothered to carry 2 phones. At the very least, it would expose W10M to millions of people that are "forced" to use it as a work phone - and just as my colleagues and I, they might actually realise that, hey, this is not too bad, it's different (to iPhone and Android) and it has some cool distinguishing features.

    With a bit of luck, business users using their W10M work phones in personal mode and a small group of users who switch once exposed to the platform at work would provide just enough critical mass (and you'd only need something like 10-15% of mobile users) to make the OS relevant for developers to at least make sure they have something on the platform. And once a critical mass of apps were on the Store, then W10M would stop being the pariah that it is for phone users. The extra users would bring developers, in a virtuous circle of positive feedback loops.
    Last edited by Cortana is Skynet; 09-20-2016 at 07:14 AM.
    09-20-2016 05:54 AM
  12. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    25USD per month for 2 years works out to 600USD. This is less than paying 800USD up front. So when did hire purchase become cheaper than one time payments?
    I think I must have misread things. I was still waking up at the time. :P

    Some phones are heavily subsidised in the US. You can get free phones on some contracts for example. Or pay a small fee up front and then your typical monthly bill.

    So in some cases it may appear you're paying less for the phone but in reality you could be paying a whole lot more.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    09-20-2016 06:04 AM
  13. TheChazas's Avatar
    Is W10M about mobile only? Continuum anyone?
    Their goal is to bring same Windows on a mobile device, their absolute goal is to make it totally universal. Continuum is their other goal, to let mobile devices unleash it on a bigger screen. I believe soon enough Microsoft will release different kind of mobile device with Intel's processors and after that with Nvidia chips as they said it before. Thats gonna be a cutting edge, a real meaning of running Continuum, a mobile device with Intel and Nvidia chips to power same Windows as PC in a pocket. Give or take atleast 2 years, but it is happening.
    And for iOS and Android they are repeating themselves for couple of years now, not even trying to create something new, just holding their market as it goes, on a huge marketing and mainstream, and every time with just a little hardware upgrade, they make it look like it is one of the "8 World Miracles".

    And still continue to build buggy software!?! Seems like they are very consistent.��
    iOS and Android is as buggy as other, do not claim anything before trying everything.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    09-20-2016 06:08 AM
  14. libra89's Avatar
    iOS and Android is as buggy as other, do not claim anything before trying everything.
    I don't remember who said it around these parts first but the bugginess really matters when it comes to what you are doing on the phone. If there is bugginess when it comes to doing regular activities on a phone, such as sending email, or so, that is annoying. Very annoying. The random restart thing, is annoying too.

    My iPhone or my Android have never randomly restarted on me. I don't experience bugginess doing regular tasks. I was shocked that the 950 randomly restarts (which it did to me 2x). Basically, I agree that no OS is perfect, but if anything, it should not have issues doing regular expected things.

    Anyway, I would like to see W10M become a solid third option. In my opinion, the all or none approach for customization isn't something I like. Indifferent about Continuum to care about it.
    tgp, Timbre70, wgs84 and 4 others like this.
    09-20-2016 08:42 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    I don't remember who said it around these parts first but the bugginess really matter when it comes to what you are doing on the phone. If there is bugginess when it comes to doing regular activities on a phone, such as sending email, or so, that is annoying. Very annoying. The random restart thing, is annoying too.
    You got it! Virtually all bugginess I've seen on Android is from a non-Google app. Even that almost never happens. The built in functions, including Google apps, are very solid.

    I'm not the biggest Apple fan, but I have an iPad Mini 4 which I like very much. No matter what device I've been using, whenever I pick up the iPad I am always amazed at how polished and smooth it is!
    libra89, aximtreo, wgs84 and 2 others like this.
    09-20-2016 08:52 AM
  16. TheChazas's Avatar
    I don't remember who said it around these parts first but the bugginess really matters when it comes to what you are doing on the phone. If there is bugginess when it comes to doing regular activities on a phone, such as sending email, or so, that is annoying. Very annoying. The random restart thing, is annoying too.

    My iPhone or my Android have never randomly restarted on me. I don't experience bugginess doing regular tasks. I was shocked that the 950 randomly restarts (which it did to me 2x). Basically, I agree that no OS is perfect, but if anything, it should not have issues doing regular expected things.

    Anyway, I would like to see W10M become a solid third option. In my opinion, the all or none approach for customization isn't something I like. Indifferent about Continuum to care about it.
    I don't know what people do with their phones or what actually happening, but personally, I have never ever had any random restarts on several various Windows phones, starting from W7, W8 and now W10M, only had a one or two restarts with my brand new 950 with its first release build, after a firmware and now various Insider builds, I never get any random restarts, any restarts at all, even on high use, lucky me I guess.
    Now to say that Windows is crappy and always randomly restarts and etc. I do hear same complains on iOS and how their iPhones or Androids always randomly restarts, overheats and all. Mostly it all comes down to a user and not a product or OS. As a user of multiple platforms I really do not have anything to complain about, but still I prefer Windows the most.

    Anyway, todays "most" buyers fall for mainstream and gets only what is the most popular and praise it, because they saw sponsored 20 million views video and they look no further. Thing is, people fall so hard for the mainstream that they buy only high-end phones, while they only do selfies, and use it only for instagram and facebook, and don't even know most of their functions and capabilities, and then other brands, they don't even look for other brands, because internet already told them what to buy.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    09-20-2016 10:54 AM
  17. libra89's Avatar
    I don't know what people do with their phones or what actually happening, but personally, I have never ever had any random restarts on several various Windows phones, starting from W7, W8 and now W10M, only had a one or two restarts with my brand new 950 with its first release build, after a firmware and now various Insider builds, I never get any random restarts, any restarts at all, even on high use, lucky me I guess.
    Now to say that Windows is crappy and always randomly restarts and etc. I do hear same complains on iOS and how their iPhones or Androids always randomly restarts, overheats and all. Mostly it all comes down to a user and not a product or OS. As a user of multiple platforms I really do not have anything to complain about, but still I prefer Windows the most.

    Anyway, todays "most" buyers fall for mainstream and gets only what is the most popular and praise it, because they saw sponsored 20 million views video and they look no further. Thing is, people fall so hard for the mainstream that they buy only high-end phones, while they only do selfies, and use it only for instagram and facebook, and don't even know most of their functions and capabilities, and then other brands, they don't even look for other brands, because internet already told them what to buy.
    I think you might have misunderstood some of my statements so I'll try to go in the order you did.

    -I haven't had any random restarts on any of my other Windows Phones I have owned and tried before the 950. It's never happened, hence my shock that it happened with the very last build before the anniversary update, which is only 2 builds back (No Insider for me). Even my 640 that has Windows 10 Mobile on it, has never randomly restarted on me.

    -I did not say at all that Windows is crappy and randomly restarts. First, I wouldn't say that it is crappy. I'm starting to think that the random restart thing is phone dependent.

    -This is the first I am hearing about this with iOS ever. I'm sure it happens but the frequency doesn't appear to be as much. iOS generally does a good job with optimizing its software to work with its hardware.

    -As for Android, there are many versions of it, and yes, I have heard overheating issues with different phones with it (hello Sony!). I can agree with that in a general sense, but in that case, it's phone dependent.

    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on it being the user and not the OS/phone. I have tried MANY phones this year, with different OS, OEMs, etc. There have been differences in all of them, good and bad ones.

    -Of course they go for the mainstream, only tech nerds really care to find everything available, compare and try everything new under the sun. Apple and Samsung both promote their flagship products very well, and there's also the power of word of mouth too. In my group of friends and even my coworkers, I am the only one who keeps changing their phone, talking about phones, knowing about all of the OSes, etc.

    I think someone around here said something along the lines of, "People know what they know about phones because of their social groups (coworkers, friends, family, etc). To expect anything more is silly."
    09-20-2016 11:20 AM
  18. Krystianpants's Avatar
    UWP is a nice thing on paper but, it's about 5-6 years too late. With Windows Phone share now around 1% devs wont even bother in a lot of cases just do to the support needed to support the app.

    I would argue that UWP is 2-3 years too early. I don't think people realize the scope of Windows 10 and what it means for the future.

    MS has been putting a lot of money into their crazy windows 10 project. It may not seem like much but having one operating system controlling any type of system is pretty huge. One that conforms to any type of hardware. Whether holographic, touch, mobile, iot, appliances, all running the same thing, no need for separation. I would think it's the most future forward thing. A lot will argue that they are not running the same thing because Desktop has win32 apps. Well, that's really there for backwards compatibility for transitional sake. As you can't just wipe an existing user base that big out. Windows will remain the same on Desktop space just those win32 exe files will be replaced with .appx packages. If you look in storage>apps and games, you will see "App installer'. This installs UWP apps and even shows you permissions and everything.

    A lot of products rely on an OS and often times these products take more time to get to market due to needing OS integration and then building an app ecosystem separately. An OS that can adapt to the product will allow innovative products to hit the market sooner than later and to piggy back off an existing ecosystem. Think of Android but even easier and in any category not just phones. MS can partner with companies to add optimization to any new hardware they put out. They can add support without changing the OS or creating a new one. Apple has the Apple watch OS, Apple TV os, Mac OS and ios. Each product has a new ecosystem being built. Products likely took longer to reach consumers because of the OS. And it can all be done on one OS and even get the same level of optimization. It's just doing it takes more work and it would be a huge mess of a process getting there. Sound familiar? Yah, because you've been experiencing that huge mess for quite some time now. But that mess is getting cleaned up more and more as time goes by. The end result will be a great achievement. But the OS is part of the story, one of the most important is building the right partners and showing these partners what can be achieved with the right hardware/software mix.

    One thing you will be seeing is a huge VR/AR/MR ecosystem open up around windows 10. It's already in motion.
    libra89 and Chintan Gohel like this.
    09-20-2016 01:23 PM
  19. Avatar of Apathy's Avatar
    LOL He's a business man, not a mathematician. =P

    But for real, he does have quite a few valid points. I also seem to remember hearing that before the 360's came out that MS was taking a loss on each Xbox that rolled off the line. Thankfully they didn't kill that as well!
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    09-21-2016 02:07 AM
  20. Avatar of Apathy's Avatar
    I think someone around here said something along the lines of, "People know what they know about phones because of their social groups (coworkers, friends, family, etc). To expect anything more is silly."
    Bingo! I remember once I told my old supervisor that my phone was a Windows Phone (who obviously didn't know WTF that was) and he responded "Windows Phone? That's crappy isn't it? Apple baby!"

    This response was basically because this is what his kids used, so this is what his household uses. They wouldn't be bothered to try something different, and actually give it an honest review. Most people wont, they will go what with they know, or what they have heard is good.
    N_LaRUE and libra89 like this.
    09-21-2016 02:18 AM
  21. xandros9's Avatar
    It doesn't have a future as long as Microsoft continues treating it as a hobby.
    theefman, libra89, wgs84 and 4 others like this.
    09-21-2016 08:45 AM
  22. Ten Four's Avatar
    Former Windows 10 phone user here who has been using a Nexus 5x on Project Fi since June. The #1 difference being on Android is lack of hassle and day-to-day useability. Once the phone is set up the way you want it everything just works, assuming you don't have a bunch of crappy apps, and you never have to think about it. Need an app for something--you will find many choices. Need an app for work--no problem! Want to try some new social app--there it is! It's the apps, and there is nothing that can be done about that until we move away from the app-centered phone. I loved the old Windows Phone interface, still basically like the W10 phone interface (though it is definitely worse), and was fine with not having something in the mainstream most of the time. But, if you just want to be able to get anything done that is mobile-centric you need to be on either iOS or Android to have the best experience, and in some cases on W10 you will just be shut out: local bank app, local store app, restaurant ordering app, bus schedule, etc. etc.
    09-21-2016 09:31 AM
  23. CharlieWade's Avatar
    You're not actually getting the phone for "free" on contracts. You're monthly plan is usually more on contracts plus the activation/upgrade charges can be up to $45 dollars. Monthly payment plan's work out better than upfront due to promotions, trade-ins, and your wireless rep is more likely to help you more as signing people up for payment plans are usually in their monthly quota.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    09-23-2016 04:26 PM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Former Windows 10 phone user here who has been using a Nexus 5x on Project Fi since June. The #1 difference being on Android is lack of hassle and day-to-day useability. Once the phone is set up the way you want it everything just works, assuming you don't have a bunch of crappy apps, and you never have to think about it. Need an app for something--you will find many choices. Need an app for work--no problem! Want to try some new social app--there it is! It's the apps, and there is nothing that can be done about that until we move away from the app-centered phone. I loved the old Windows Phone interface, still basically like the W10 phone interface (though it is definitely worse), and was fine with not having something in the mainstream most of the time. But, if you just want to be able to get anything done that is mobile-centric you need to be on either iOS or Android to have the best experience, and in some cases on W10 you will just be shut out: local bank app, local store app, restaurant ordering app, bus schedule, etc. etc.
    The other thing I've noticed is the sheer number of app updates. It's not unusual for me to get updates for 40 different apps in a week.
    09-23-2016 04:36 PM
  25. Joe920's Avatar
    The other thing I've noticed is the sheer number of app updates. It's not unusual for me to get updates for 40 different apps in a week.
    So true. Whenever I turn on my Amazon Fire phone I'm blown away by the number of available app updates. It's definitely an eye opener.
    libra89 likes this.
    09-23-2016 04:51 PM
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