06-02-2017 06:54 AM
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  1. EliteMikes's Avatar
    Lots of feedback both up votes and my own entries. Tabs might come... Not holding out that it will be an RS3 feature though.

    If you don't believe me that Ms doesn't focus or stick with an idea long enough then you don't have enough of the history.
    05-07-2017 08:08 AM
  2. EliteMikes's Avatar
    Regarding lack of USB-C, it's just inexcusable on a brand new device at this point. I'm not saying that it should be usb-c only, I wouldn't want that for a very long time. I don't want to have to carry any adapter dongles in the future, and that future is near. For that reason I won't be considering a surface laptop no matter how good it is. I will be in the market soon to replace an aging SP3.

    The goal of windows 10 (one windows everywhere) doesn't matter to most people. Many people are happy with their android tablets/ipads and phone combo. Some of these people don't need a pc at all. Don't get me wrong, I dream of this day as long as I can do my work on such a device, but I don't see that in the next many years as being a possibility. My home workstation is a liquid cooled overclocked i7 with 32gb of ram and the fastest ssd that was available at the time. My work office machine is the highest end dell work station on the market at the end of 2016 with 64gb of ram. So I think we are a long ways away before there is a suitable all in one for me.

    I don't think the early versions of ARM hardware is going to be good enough to make me happy even as a casual user. Obviously I don't have anything to back this up, but emulation is generally very expensive (x86 apps).

    I played with HoloLens. That thing is amazing, and it's good MS isn't releasing a new version yet. Until they have full field of view, it's not very good IMO for anything other than tech demos. I think augmented reality is the future, not virtual. I think there is a place for both, but for the average person, augmented makes more sense. I played with the HTC vive the same time I got to demo HoloLens, yes, it's amazing too. I can see it useful for training scenarios where you absolutely need to be "transported" out of reality. Gaming would be cool as well. Being tethered SUCKS and this is a huge win for MS and the HoloLens.

    It's my opinion that MS has not given mobile users anything that is really needed. Project Astoria was what was needed and it was axed for whatever reason. It's the reason I stuck with windows at the start of windows 10 mobile and then I had a hope that project islandwood would take off and all would be well. That has been a joke and a waste of effort. I see no path forward right now for the small screen. Project islandwood should have brought tons and tons of media apps into UWP at least for xbox one. Xamarmin is the only hope that it can blend true UWP across all MS form factors and iOS and Android. Maybe then, MS stands a chance, but that is even a tough sell unless they have amazing bridge tools to make the jump manageable.
    05-07-2017 09:08 AM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    Lots of feedback both up votes and my own entries. Tabs might come... Not holding out that it will be an RS3 feature though.

    If you don't believe me that Ms doesn't focus or stick with an idea long enough then you don't have enough of the history.
    Well I heard tabs were a plan. Never know with rumours, MS keeps things more secret that the leak minded, rumour mill might like to think.

    So far as 'lack of focus', I'm 39, and have been into computers since the vic20, and also worked in IT, and now also a tech business. There might be areas I lack familiarity, but I think I have a fairly good sense of the big picture.

    I know they needed to commercially pivot from windows 7 etc, due to the rise of touch. Which resulted in the mix bag of 8, and eventually the more refined vision of 10. On phones that meant many transitions, while the pivot found the correct direction (and of course said pivot is a bit of herculean effort, coding a one OS, bringing developers to the platform, and leveraging existing market successes into new markets, it takes a long time to bake and produce results, and in the end likely millions of man hours more of coding).

    I know that they needed to dump nokia because it was a money burning pit. Even if a founder type CEO had the mind to burn that money for marketshare, his shareholders would have ousted him.

    But I cannot bring to mind any great, saleable technologies they have abandoned through lack of effort under Nadella. All I personally can see is a company that needed to radically shift its vision, has done so successfully, now under new leadership, and could have easily ended up being capitalist worm food if it didn't know how to rebalance itself.

    What I see is a successful combination of long term vision, and hard market pragmatism. It's not exactly how a founder would run a company, they might take more risks, but its also not as conservative as many companies are run either under such circumstances or when the sailing is good. Nadella seems to present a good mixture of risk and conservation, as a CEO under the circumstances. And as a man who has created a vision, of a future minded MS, than the shareholders clearly believe in, he MUST remain commited to that. To give up on UWP or onecore, or any of the other main ideas now would make developers, shareholders and everyone lose faith. It would be commercial suicide.

    I still don't envy the task that lays ahead of the company - making Cortana better than GA, or alexa, fully unifying the platform as much as possible, carefully drawing in developers for the UWP, preparing for, and laying the groundwork for mixed reality, VR and AR, solidifying gaming, and simultaneously drawing in the consumer market piece by piece, chess move by chess move, whilst trying to hold onto its enterprise market by extending things like cognition into that space. (and making hardware).

    I think in a way AR/VR is kind of a key piece. It's something dedicated hardware does much better, and its a consumer item that when it rises, and becomes affordable, its rise will be titanic. If MS can hold that in the consumer market, in specialist enterprise fields like medicine, education and engineering, it's place is solid, even if everything else flounders.

    The voice thing is also imperative they get into soon. The IoT is already being populated, albeit mainly by gimmick obsessed consumers, but its a market that is bound to grow, and MS cannot afford to be to late to the party with.

    I mean its a big company, and it has a solid plan overall, but tis managing a lot of variables, juggling competing priorities, and essentially trying to play like a founder, with some vision, whilst still being held on a stockholders leash.

    I'm actually reasonably confident that MS's long term play will unfold as it intends, even if it takes a long time. Perhaps that's a matter of subjective perspective. But I say that more as an admirer of MS current business strategies, than a fan of their products.

    I am not sure if MS will win the assistant/IoT race, but I'd like to see that, as a fan of the vision. They are definitely ahead in virtuosity - and that as I mentioned I believe is very important.

    Just think of this - the majority of the internet bandwidth these days is used for entertainment. From porn, to movies and TV and games. Those are gigantic industries. Entertainment dominates our technology. VR/AR represents the next phase of all that entertainment. Doing things as small as the NEON design scheme, or as big as the intergration with HoloLens and mixed reality - that's plain smart.

    And the arm, and windows s play, seem like guaranteed developer drawcards. Windows tablets are growing, and cheaper LTE enabled devices will cement that. It'll also bring those GPS/chat/phone based apps that will be later needed for re-entry into pocket devices and wearables.

    However equally they are well behind the race of IoT, smarthomes, and wearables. I agree with you, in that, as much developer hours have surely done into their work so far, their window for a comeback market take over, however long that takes, might close.

    We have to see some of those plans come to market soon (this year or next at the latest)

    I guess neither of us, have long to find out what the Redmond giant can bring to the table against its larger more cash ready competitors, google and apple are bringing.

    Of course some times if feels like a year is too late - but look at google assistant. As late as that was, its better enough, that it makes up for it. So perhaps make some good moves this year, or make some amazing ones next year, would be a nice sum.

    It's not even a matter of the smartphone market, or what people are bringing in desktops. Its about who can gain a lead in the new emerging markets. And there MS is ahead in some areas, and well behind in others. The big vision, hopefully isn't too big!
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-07-2017 at 09:35 AM.
    Nate W likes this.
    05-07-2017 09:21 AM
  4. EliteMikes's Avatar
    Your glasses are definitely a pretty shade of pink. I hope you are right.
    05-08-2017 09:59 AM
  5. dorelse's Avatar
    Well, I can chime in with my experience moving to iOS, while still owning a Idol 4S. The App experience is the gold standard of having a fully supported App ecosystem. I know that anytime there's some cool in mobile tech is out...I can try it, it'll be available, and it'll work. That in and of itself is an amazing experience. I know...that my iPhone 7 Plus will absolutely get the next OS upgrade exactly when Apple says so. I know the 3rd party peripheral market will absolutely support my phone, in what ever obscure thing I decide I want. All of those are huge. It's amazing what being part of that ecosystem brings to the mobile experience.

    Real world example...I can check in for my Dr.'s appt with my iPhone (Or Android). Not so via the Web...Credit Union support...TouchID login, it all is dialed in and working solidly. There are 100 different ways that are improved by being part of a successful ecosystem. Flixster/VUDU movie downloads...again the Apps...fully supported Apps. The battery life is amazing...I am frequently above 70% full after getting up at 7AM, going to bed at 11PM...I truly no longer worry about battery life.

    Now...there's a lot of things not rosy too. For example...if I snooze an alarm...it may or may not stay in my notification window to turn off. About 30% of the time, it's not there to shut off. If it goes off again, I can always shut it off...but if I want to kill it after I've snoozed it, but before it goes off again...not always there.

    I've had a few apps freeze up the phone, the power button has stuck down on 2 of our 4 iPhone 7 Plus's...crappy quality. Which has been a huge disappointment.

    I miss the Windows UI...iOS is a schizophrenic, weird mess of odd notificaition & widget windows, dumb icon arrangement "you arrange it like I say comrade" design. The overall experience just makes way more sense in WM than it does in iOS. How it works, how you navigate, notifications, sound volumes, photo app, app list, etc. I prefer everything about the OS UI over the iPhone.

    I used Android for years and have a modern device as well. I often found myself spending more time managing the phone, than I did enjoying it, so I'm over Android. Though I will say, my old GS6 took better photos than my iPhone 7 Plus does.

    I would love to still be 100% in the WM10 camp...but as we all know...MS has moved to the W10 on Arm campground now...so we're left primitive camping all by our lonesome. I'll likely end up rockin 2 SIM's at some point, but right now, I'm still forcing myself to use the iphone...and I'm not thrilled about it.

    I won't by the new Cortana device, that's too small of a release being US only, so MS still isn't proving they want in on the consumer market for me to spend another penny on them. Too bad too...it looks cool.
    05-08-2017 06:36 PM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    Well, I can chime in with my experience moving to iOS, while still owning a Idol 4S. The App experience is the gold standard of having a fully supported App ecosystem. I know that anytime there's some cool in mobile tech is out...I can try it, it'll be available, and it'll work. That in and of itself is an amazing experience. I know...that my iPhone 7 Plus will absolutely get the next OS upgrade exactly when Apple says so. I know the 3rd party peripheral market will absolutely support my phone, in what ever obscure thing I decide I want. All of those are huge. It's amazing what being part of that ecosystem brings to the mobile experience.

    Real world example...I can check in for my Dr.'s appt with my iPhone (Or Android). Not so via the Web...Credit Union support...TouchID login, it all is dialed in and working solidly. There are 100 different ways that are improved by being part of a successful ecosystem. Flixster/VUDU movie downloads...again the Apps...fully supported Apps. The battery life is amazing...I am frequently above 70% full after getting up at 7AM, going to bed at 11PM...I truly no longer worry about battery life.

    Now...there's a lot of things not rosy too. For example...if I snooze an alarm...it may or may not stay in my notification window to turn off. About 30% of the time, it's not there to shut off. If it goes off again, I can always shut it off...but if I want to kill it after I've snoozed it, but before it goes off again...not always there.

    I've had a few apps freeze up the phone, the power button has stuck down on 2 of our 4 iPhone 7 Plus's...crappy quality. Which has been a huge disappointment.

    I miss the Windows UI...iOS is a schizophrenic, weird mess of odd notificaition & widget windows, dumb icon arrangement "you arrange it like I say comrade" design. The overall experience just makes way more sense in WM than it does in iOS. How it works, how you navigate, notifications, sound volumes, photo app, app list, etc. I prefer everything about the OS UI over the iPhone.

    I used Android for years and have a modern device as well. I often found myself spending more time managing the phone, than I did enjoying it, so I'm over Android. Though I will say, my old GS6 took better photos than my iPhone 7 Plus does.

    I would love to still be 100% in the WM10 camp...but as we all know...MS has moved to the W10 on Arm campground now...so we're left primitive camping all by our lonesome. I'll likely end up rockin 2 SIM's at some point, but right now, I'm still forcing myself to use the iphone...and I'm not thrilled about it.

    I won't by the new Cortana device, that's too small of a release being US only, so MS still isn't proving they want in on the consumer market for me to spend another penny on them. Too bad too...it looks cool.
    Nice description of ios. To me its an app launcher and not much more. As you stated its gold standard when it comes to this, so if there's an app you want or need, you've got it.
    Android is....I don't know, fun I guess, but I grow bored of it because it never becomes something solid. I always am looking to change it to try to make it better.
    As you also stated W10M has a much nicer UI, and that is why I personally won't leave. Its really a personal choice, what's more important to you. Neither choice is wrong.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    05-08-2017 07:29 PM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    Your glasses are definitely a pretty shade of pink. I hope you are right.
    We have three device releases, and 2-3 software releases this year. There's the shanghai hardware release, the invoke, the windows on arm device - and there's windows on arm itself, Cortana api, and whatever ends up being in redstone 3.

    MS have been working hard for a long time on its long plays. This year and next we see fruit. We won't have to wait long, to see what comes out, although we'll probably have to wait longer to see if it succeeds in the market.

    I think if they could lower the price of the HoloLens, add dual cameras to capture hand movements, make the device smaller, and add LTE/calling - that's a pretty good offer to replace a whole range of devices - tablets, smartphones, tvs. Add in a decent conversational platform, its a pretty sci-fi complete solution. IDK how long it'll take them to make it look cool, and be cheaper, how many versions it'll take to get that consumer uptake rolling - but the porn alone will push units.

    Consumers like entertainment AR/VR is the next paradigm in it. And no one will want a tiny smartphone if a comfortable pair of glasses (provided they can make it such), can offer a 50 inch screen anywhere you go.

    The question isn't so much if MS has good ideas, its more whether it can beat its competitors, like apples super secret AR project. Or googles rumoured hybrid OS. Everyone is looking for the next thing, so MS either has to be first, or best.

    I think the one main lead they have is their desktop footing. They have already prepared the OS for AR, and have a lot of good software for the platform, as well as a foothold in the desktop and console market where VR will run the most realistically.

    But while all their ideas are great, their commercial rivals have plenty of their own ideas.
    05-08-2017 11:56 PM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    The tricky thing is the cashflow gap. Apple could buy almost 50% of MS right now with the cash it has lying around. For MS fans, here's hoping MS's plays are smarter than apples! :P (And not so secretly wishing QUALCOMM gets its way in court and blocks the iPhone from being imported to the US - that 30 odd percent of apples revenue)
    Nate W likes this.
    05-08-2017 11:58 PM
  9. nasznjoka's Avatar
    Nice description of ios. To me its an app launcher and not much more. As you stated its gold standard when it comes to this, so if there's an app you want or need, you've got it.
    Android is....I don't know, fun I guess, but I grow bored of it because it never becomes something solid. I always am looking to change it to try to make it better.
    As you also stated W10M has a much nicer UI, and that is why I personally won't leave. Its really a personal choice, what's more important to you. Neither choice is wrong.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Fanboys! So you dare call a matured system with full ecosystem an app launcher (disrespectful) for the another system about to go down with no ecosystem whatsoever and just for it looks ?? I think among all ecosystems Android got the best users. Why because it's a mixed one. You got people from blackberry ,Nokia , Windows , Apple etc all mixed up.
    05-09-2017 01:53 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    Fanboys! So you dare call a matured system with full ecosystem an app launcher (disrespectful) for the another system about to go down with no ecosystem whatsoever and just for it looks ?? I think among all ecosystems Android got the best users. Why because it's a mixed one. You got people from blackberry ,Nokia , Windows , Apple etc all mixed up.
    ios, as an OS, is basically an app launcher isn't it? It's not a feature rich OS, its stripped back, simple, and non possible to customise. Although they did get split screen recently, they are still behind android in that regard.

    Fair play though the app _intergration_ is great. A great example is handoff. It's even better intergrated than the windows "hand off". You can do a great deal, with an app on ios.

    But I don't think apple gives a rats about its phones or tablets any more (beyond the profit they can juice from it, while premium phones still sell in appreciable numbers). Their growth has dried up, like samsungs, I'm sure they see the writing on the wall, and somewhere in their backlabs, they'll be cooking up AI and AR/VR. If they are smart, they'll put OSX front and centre, not ios.

    Apple have a significant edge over android in AR/VR, given they actually have a proper desktop OS with a desktop 'ecosystem'. No one wants smartphone quality apps on a wall sized virtual screen (funded by ads or 3 dollar purchases), or an immersive VR gaming experience running via mobile hardware. That will seem like using a chromebook next to a high end gaming laptop, only worse, as a user experience.

    I really can't see much of an "in" there for google, software wise. It's far too late to build up the desktop, larger scale, or more power user software.

    Googles strength in future technology might I think lie with its investment in cognitive software. They could be the king of the smarthome if they put their mind to it, with some ease. Their platform scales well to the IoT, and they have worked _a lot_ on machine learning. Their current popularity on the smartphone could be used to leverage the device compatibili
    ty they already have, into cognitive and distributed ubiquitous computing devices. With their oft stated mission of wanting to turn google search into "the stark trek ship computer".
    They recently offered assistant to use on any device for developers, which seems a very good angle for the search giant, in terms of the future of tech. Get google assistant into everything, refine the platforms security and communications protocols, and evolve. The question is, how do they make money from that, without playing obtrusive ads over audio. I think actually a license model would suit this application better.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-09-2017 at 02:31 AM.
    Nate W likes this.
    05-09-2017 02:11 AM
  11. EliteMikes's Avatar
    We have three device releases, and 2-3 software releases this year. There's the shanghai hardware release, the invoke, the windows on arm device - and there's windows on arm itself, Cortana api, and whatever ends up being in redstone 3.

    MS have been working hard for a long time on its long plays. This year and next we see fruit. We won't have to wait long, to see what comes out, although we'll probably have to wait longer to see if it succeeds in the market.

    I think if they could lower the price of the HoloLens, add dual cameras to capture hand movements, make the device smaller, and add LTE/calling - that's a pretty good offer to replace a whole range of devices - tablets, smartphones, tvs. Add in a decent conversational platform, its a pretty sci-fi complete solution. IDK how long it'll take them to make it look cool, and be cheaper, how many versions it'll take to get that consumer uptake rolling - but the porn alone will push units.

    Consumers like entertainment AR/VR is the next paradigm in it. And no one will want a tiny smartphone if a comfortable pair of glasses (provided they can make it such), can offer a 50 inch screen anywhere you go.

    The question isn't so much if MS has good ideas, its more whether it can beat its competitors, like apples super secret AR project. Or googles rumoured hybrid OS. Everyone is looking for the next thing, so MS either has to be first, or best.

    I think the one main lead they have is their desktop footing. They have already prepared the OS for AR, and have a lot of good software for the platform, as well as a foothold in the desktop and console market where VR will run the most realistically.

    But while all their ideas are great, their commercial rivals have plenty of their own ideas.
    MS is just dangling the shiny object on a stick in front of your face. I've been waiting for the fruit for a long time.

    As a developer, I'm weary of .net core as well as anything else they put out right now. At least the existing technologies keep me employed.

    Window's 10 might be the holy grail, but as I mentioned before, people don't care. If apple comes out with an AR solution soon, even if the experience will be better on windows, Apple will outsell MS. That is a problem MS hasn't been able to solve.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-09-2017 09:29 AM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    MS is just dangling the shiny object on a stick in front of your face. I've been waiting for the fruit for a long time.

    As a developer, I'm weary of .net core as well as anything else they put out right now. At least the existing technologies keep me employed.

    Window's 10 might be the holy grail, but as I mentioned before, people don't care. If apple comes out with an AR solution soon, even if the experience will be better on windows, Apple will outsell MS. That is a problem MS hasn't been able to solve.
    I'm very happy with windows 10 as it is, personally. But of course, personally I prefer windows 10, to ios or android, chromeos or osx. I'd like to see a future based on my preferences, as would everyone, its natural.

    Not that technology will save humanity, but its a fun sideshow.

    In the AR space, apple is microsoft's genuine competitor. Guess how far along their product is, depends on when they started and how seriously they take it, when they have been coasting along nicely on iPhone sales. They would need to invest not only in an alternative technology to that patented by MS, but invest hundreds of thousands if not millions of coding hours, changing osx to produce something competitive. It could be they are doing that exactly, in fact rumours suggest they may be putting significant efforts into future tech, so who knows?

    It's doubtful they could capture the VR market, but AR which is likely to be more popular, could be. Could be if its decent, affordable, and released first.

    It's not entirely a simple technology. Time will tell. An apple dominated world wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened. They do pride themselves on quality, even if they treat their users like lobotomy patients, who need to be kept in guilded cage, at least its a cage without too many ads, or spyware.

    MS has a better rep these days than phone/techy minded people tend to give it. The surface range has a certain cool MS has lacked for years. Young people are the fastest adopters of hybrid windows devices. The same kind of demographic that brought into the iPhone. Sadly, as always they could afford to spend more on marketing. I'd certainly hope to god if they are first to market with a decent AR consumer product, that they market the crap out of it!

    If MS beat everyone else to market, and have a good product, and we know their OS has been swung in that direction, they have a good shot.

    There are many variables, but its not some hopeless objective, or fantasy. It's a genuine possibility, that any one of MS's long plays could pay off. Same with google, and apple. Samsung like MS co-hold the flexible OLED screen patent. That could be a big thing, if AR doesn't take off. Even amazon, given they now own 70% of the smarthome device market.

    The proof really is in the pudding.

    Humanity is circus, may as well sit back, take in the show, and watch the monkeys dance.

    What I like about tech, as a kind of ludicrous commercial battle, is its never really over. Its like game of thrones.

    What if IBM's efforts into cognitive computing make a killer AI? Lol, they could be the winner :P All current operating systems replaced by a "her"-like hard AI OS made by IBM. They do have a new hardware specifically designed for neural networking, completely unique, massively parallel, AND Watson, arguably the most advanced machine learning software that exists. It's not impossible.

    That's the thing about the "next curve", like most things in the future, we can guess, but nobody knows exactly for sure.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-09-2017 at 10:29 AM.
    05-09-2017 10:17 AM
  13. Blue Steel's Avatar
    I'll attempt to keep this short and sweet. About a year ago I made the jump to Android. At the time, from a hardware perspective, the Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge seemed liked a good fit.

    Note: I was incredibly reluctant to leave the Windows Mobile platform. However, the App Gap became too large and Microsoft's lack of attention to the mobile platform just made matters worse.

    From a hardware standpoint, the Samsung Galaxy exceeded expectations. The build quality is superb, it is water resident, has an SD slot for memory expansion, the screen is detailed and vibrant, and the camera is exceptional. Unfortunately, that's where the love affair stops.

    The Android OS is incredibly painful to use. I had high hopes for Nougat but it only exasperated my poor experience. I was perplexed, after all these years of competition with iOS and Windows Mobile, I thought Google would at least be competitive. Instead, it is still a very inconsistent user experience, difficult to navigate, and incredibly unresponsive. I find myself often tapping the screen multiple times before the OS responds to even basic functionality. Apparently, the people building Android missed UI/UX school.

    Windows Mobile was so crisp, intuitive, seamless, and fluid. It felt like the perfect balance between Android and iOS. Customizable like Android and consistent like iOS. I miss Cortana reading my text messages while driving down the freeway and alerting me of important reminders. The wonderful contact integration with services like Facebook, Twitter, etc... a thing of the past. The seamless Microsoft app integration now feels like a stand alone experience on Android with less functionality.

    I'm at a point where I need to abandon Android but I don't want to move to Apple's echo system. Incredibly frustrating...
    Timbre70 likes this.
    05-09-2017 08:34 PM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    Fanboys! So you dare call a matured system with full ecosystem an app launcher (disrespectful) for the another system about to go down with no ecosystem whatsoever and just for it looks ?? I think among all ecosystems Android got the best users. Why because it's a mixed one. You got people from blackberry ,Nokia , Windows , Apple etc all mixed up.
    OK, lets calm down and reread what I said.
    Yes, its mainly an app launcher. What would you call it? It doesn't even have a file manager. Its extremely good at what it does though and has the added benefit of aesthetics, marketing, and exceptional customer care.

    Second, MS is far from about to go down. Also, I would call it's software suite exceptional and one of the main reasons I use Windows 10 across devices. Mobile (phone) is currently suffering a bit but as the other mobile devices build momentum, it will make a comeback in its new form.

    Android is about customization but is extremely fragmented. It takes a lot of maintenance but gets the job done.

    In the end, its about what works best for you. Call me a fanboy if you want, but Windows is best for me to get work done as well as fulfill my personal and mobile needs including speaking with you. Have a great evening!

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    05-09-2017 08:55 PM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Fanboys! So you dare call a matured system with full ecosystem an app launcher (disrespectful) for the another system about to go down with no ecosystem whatsoever and just for it looks ?? I think among all ecosystems Android got the best users. Why because it's a mixed one. You got people from blackberry ,Nokia , Windows , Apple etc all mixed up.

    It's not disrespectful when it's the truth. Every single file has to be opened by an app. You cannot view its properties, change default behaviors or even rename it without opening it in an app first. The mere fact that there's no USB mass storage is indicative of iOS being a very well executed APP LAUNCHER. I have a 6S+ and I know its pros but I'm also very aware of its stringent limitations. Being great doesn't equate with being the greatest. Tom Brady is a great QB, one of the best ever. Bring him down here to play behind the Dolphins' O-line and he'll submit his retirement papers at halftime.

    I seriously doubt an iPhone would be as polished if it had to do half the things an Android can. Conversely, if Android or Windows had the light fluffy load iOS has there would be no iPhone.
    Nate W likes this.
    05-10-2017 10:41 PM
  16. anon(7929613)'s Avatar
    I don't know whether Android has improved or not but things are not that great in Windows Mobile. I think Nadella has destroyed the momentum that Windows smartphones generated initially. Everyone wanted to support the underdog. Everyone wanted the underdogs to win. Support like this is gold for marketing people. And then this was backed by powerful handsets made by Nokia. Nokia really helped to build the steam. Unfortunately, the initial phase of Windows mobile was limited by the limitations of the OS. The hardware was anyways the best. But when things were about to improve after WP8.1 (Denim) update, Microsoft screwed the entire thing with buggy W10M and Lumia 950 which was really missing the Nokia effect behind its name. The battery was not that great, the camera was ok, and the build and display all lacked commitment. From then, instead of rectifying mistakes, Microsoft is letting that momentum leak. I will say every CEO has some high points and some low points. If Ballmer's low point was giving too much importance to mobiles at the expense of desktops, Nadella's weak point will be not giving importance to the small sized devices and letting that initial momentum decay.
    Last edited by Satish Singh; 05-11-2017 at 02:24 AM.
    05-10-2017 11:30 PM
  17. Tayjuan SN's Avatar
    Sadness in my heart!

    I've switched between android and windows phone my whole life basically and i've been satisfied with each OS until recently (never jumped ship to IOS either). It all started with the O2 XDA phone and I loved it at the time, there wasn't a need for all the apps we had today and it read all of my music files fine, which seems to be a problem with groove (although their update has fixed this recently).
    Anyways!!... I then got a Sony Xperia S later on and stuck with it for 2 years which is unheard of for me. Android going strong. As time went by I jumped back to Microsoft and its windows OS with the Lumia 930, which at the time was the best phone I ever had. Awesome design, great screen, nice camera and the OS was mostly stable with many apps. Unfortunately I hit a financial stumble and cancelled my contract and jumped back to android with a Motorola razr I, worst decision for a phone.
    Time went by and I have had the Lumia 640, 950 XL and the LG G Flex 2 and now... the ultimate Lenovo P2 that I love!

    The 640 was a good phone. Cheap, somewhat stable OS and still had a few aps with the 8.1 OS. The phone was good for the money. I bought the Flex 2 and it was great, apart from the overheating. It's android so what more can I say. The camera was great, the screen was crisp and the design actually feels perfect in the hand. I needed change and longed for another windows phone since my girlfriend had her Lumia 830 (not the best Lumia at all). So I bought the 950 XL and I was happy again, until I saw that after the year that I have been away from the windows mobile OS, soooooooo many of the apps I used on my 640 have now been removed from the store. This was a drawback but not a disaster. After struggling with the dreadful call quality for nearly a month and reading where windows mobile was heading on WINDOWS CENTRAL I gave the phone back to amazon and got a refund.

    Luckily I still had my old Sony Xperia S to keep me connected until my new phone came.... The Beast... the king... the Lenovo P2. This phone is amazing and the best phone I have ever had. Interface is great, quality build, crisp screen, fast and very responsive.

    Point is I went back after 5 years or so to my slow, quite dreadful Sony Xperia S and I could still use most of the apps I use today on my Lenovo P2... I left windows for 9 months and half of my apps were made redundant. The experience on android is a more fulfilled one and dedicated. Windows has a place in my heart obviously but it will take a great deal to get me back after the 2 years of declining apps.

    P.S,
    For the people who say its not all about apps... It kind of is.
    Cant use my online banking since they scrapped the app. Cant use my cars app connect. Cant use my car insurance app. Cant use student discount apps. Cant use google maps (lets face it, bing maps doesn't compare). Cant use my mobile providers app to check my allowance. Lastly it took me hours to find a decent replacement for the YouTube app. So yes, apps is very important.
    Guytronic likes this.
    05-11-2017 09:49 AM
  18. dorelse's Avatar
    It's not disrespectful when it's the truth. Every single file has to be opened by an app. You cannot view its properties, change default behaviors or even rename it without opening it in an app first. The mere fact that there's no USB mass storage is indicative of iOS being a very well executed APP LAUNCHER. I have a 6S+ and I know its pros but I'm also very aware of its stringent limitations. Being great doesn't equate with being the greatest. Tom Brady is a great QB, one of the best ever. Bring him down here to play behind the Dolphins' O-line and he'll submit his retirement papers at halftime.

    I seriously doubt an iPhone would be as polished if it had to do half the things an Android can. Conversely, if Android or Windows had the light fluffy load iOS has there would be no iPhone.
    I think we can all agree that an OS is not just an app launcher. A small part might be the user facing layer, but an OS has far, far more going on under the covers. I think the terminology might be causing some confusion.

    I am going to be ebaying my iPhone 7 Plus after today, and looking seriously at the BB KEYone. Short version: Siri hung after I asked it for directions...so I rebooted only to find 11, previously unknown voice messages. Some related to my tax returns. I'm done with my 6 mos. Apple experiment.
    libra89 and TgeekB like this.
    05-12-2017 06:52 PM
  19. libra89's Avatar
    I think we can all agree that an OS is not just an app launcher. A small part might be the user facing layer, but an OS has far, far more going on under the covers. I think the terminology might be causing some confusion.

    I am going to be ebaying my iPhone 7 Plus after today, and looking seriously at the BB KEYone. Short version: Siri hung after I asked it for directions...so I rebooted only to find 11, previously unknown voice messages. Some related to my tax returns. I'm done with my 6 mos. Apple experiment.
    Wow that's terrible :( Good luck with the KEYone, I hear that it's a beast!
    05-12-2017 10:37 PM
  20. pcDoc76's Avatar
    I have an iPad, an Android tablet, and a Surface 3. My Surface 3 is by far the best tablet that I have ever had. I even like it more than my laptop. I will stay with
    Microsoft Surface products for a very long time. I work in IT and can tell you we use them there too and they are excellent for Desktop Support.
    05-12-2017 11:57 PM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    I have an iPad, an Android tablet, and a Surface 3. My Surface 3 is by far the best tablet that I have ever had. I even like it more than my laptop. I will stay with
    Microsoft Surface products for a very long time. I work in IT and can tell you we use them there too and they are excellent for Desktop Support.
    There's no real comparison when it comes to tablets IMO.
    05-13-2017 12:22 AM
  22. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I think we can all agree that an OS is not just an app launcher. A small part might be the user facing layer, but an OS has far, far more going on under the covers. I think the terminology might be causing some confusion.

    I am going to be ebaying my iPhone 7 Plus after today, and looking seriously at the BB KEYone. Short version: Siri hung after I asked it for directions...so I rebooted only to find 11, previously unknown voice messages. Some related to my tax returns. I'm done with my 6 mos. Apple experiment.

    Calling iOS an app launcher may be oversimplifying things a little but it's closer to the truth than most would be comfortable with. The freezing has been a more frequent issue lately than at any time I can remember. My wife's 6S+ froze while viewing a photo requiring a soft reset. My own 6S+ has been freezing on Mail which is disturbing since the problems (so far) have been on their core apps. If it was 3rd party apps it would be more palatable since 10.3.1 is fairly new. One of my PMs has been having problems with his Apple Watch which he claims is a new phenomenon. I've never owned one so I have to take his word for it.

    Good luck with the KEYone and make sure you report your experience. When the price drops, I'll be giving it a long look. That's code for I want one but the wife's giving me "the look".
    libra89 likes this.
    05-13-2017 10:11 PM
  23. aquavitae72's Avatar
    Hello all, this is my first post ever so I'll try to make it short and too the point. A little over 2 years ago I switched from Sprint to Verizon and with that I took a chance on a Windows phone. I went from an htc m9 to the Lumia 735. Yes, it was quite an adjustment, but not like you may be thinking. After having lots of problems with calls dropping, getting texts a day later, I decided wanted a service and a phone that actually worked. After lots of due diligence I decided a Windows phone was worth a chance, after all I didn't care about megapixels or gaming and my eyes were getting messed up from watching too many shows on a 5inch screen. I got a phone to be a phone, not for entertainment. Fast forward to yesterday, I switched my recently purchased unlocked Moto G4 play back to my Lumia 735. The moto g4 play is a good phone but it just wasn't the same as the phone and OS I had grown to love. The HTC m9 was a great phone too but I had come too realize that just because a smartphone had all the bells and whistles, with the price tag to go with it, didn't make it the right phone for me. The phone was too distracting. All I needed was a phone to receive and make a call, send and receive a text, send and receive an email, tell me when and where my kids activities we're going to take place. Oh, and tell me some news. The thing that made my decision to hang on to my Microsoft Lumia 735 with Windows 10 mobile was a little assistant named Cortana. Cortana reads incoming texts to me and helps me reply to those texts hands free while I'm driving. I'll never have to take my eyes off the road to reply to my family. That feature should be the industry standard.
    Please don't take my Windows 10 mobile away. It saves lives.
    fatclue_98, NYCMetsPDX and Nate W like this.
    05-14-2017 10:35 PM
  24. dorelse's Avatar
    Calling iOS an app launcher may be oversimplifying things a little but it's closer to the truth than most would be comfortable with. The freezing has been a more frequent issue lately than at any time I can remember. My wife's 6S+ froze while viewing a photo requiring a soft reset. My own 6S+ has been freezing on Mail which is disturbing since the problems (so far) have been on their core apps. If it was 3rd party apps it would be more palatable since 10.3.1 is fairly new. One of my PMs has been having problems with his Apple Watch which he claims is a new phenomenon. I've never owned one so I have to take his word for it.

    Good luck with the KEYone and make sure you report your experience. When the price drops, I'll be giving it a long look. That's code for I want one but the wife's giving me "the look".
    That's funny, we're having iPhone issues this weekend again...I've got 2 iPhone 7+'s that now need repair. The digitizer won't recognize the letter 'r' or a ',' on the keyboard, 2nd 7+'s power button is stuck down again. So...that's a 2 time failure on 1...and another one down. Totally disappointed. I won't really get the 'look' since we own all our phones...just an ebay sale and viola...money for the KeyONE.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    05-14-2017 11:45 PM
  25. PerfectReign's Avatar
    I came from Android to W10M, so what does that tell ya? Couldn't be happier with my choice.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    That is unusual. I keep waffling. I was an Android fanboi for several years. Now using my Windows phones. Still have am S6 tho. Both suck in different ways.

    Sent from mTalk
    05-15-2017 12:07 AM
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