05-22-2017 12:22 PM
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  1. EliteMikes's Avatar
    Disclaimer: This is purely opinion with some facts sprinkled in.

    I actually love windows mobile, but it no longer loves me. I’ve had a windowsphone since Verizon took their good old time releasing the HTC trophy. That was fresh and actually cool compared to my aging OG Droid with the slider keyboard. Anyone that remembers those days when the people hub was awesome and the camera functionality was blazingly fast and the UI was sexy had a feeling that windows phone was something special. I converted many people in the early days to WP7 and most of them picked up a WP8 on their respective carrier. When WP8 was launched, I jumped over to AT&T so I could pick up the 920. At that point, I had 3 other family members join me on my plan with the best phone of the time.

    WP8 was the start and end of something great. We saw lots of good things and many not so good. NFC payments never really came. Xbox music was a disaster. Apps came and apps went. People hub integration started to get weak until it no longer worked. The integrated Skype feature was short lived and poor. System apps (mail, people,phone, messaging) never got updates that were really needed. I can go on and onabout WP8, lots to like and lots to frown over.

    Fast forward to the launch of Windows mobile 10. I believe in the concept of the mobile initiative. I think if they can pull off all the architectural feats needed to make it work it will be the best OS on the market. MS should have let WP8 live on with minor improvements for at least a year instead of pushing windows 10 mobile into the market. They could have released the 950/950xl with wp8.1 with the option to upgrade to be a beta tester, my guess is they would have sold more. I was an early adopter on the XL and I have mostly had a negative experience. My wife completely hates it. The other 4 people on my plan which consists of 3 950s and one XL really miss the apps. My parents have had 2 vehicles now where they couldn’t take advantage of core features because there was no app. The fact than an app is needed is a different argument, but it didn’tmake them happy that they couldn’t easily remote start their vehicle. My dad threw in the towel and is waiting for his android device now. In the days of 8.1 I could honestly tell people how much easier windows was over android, but I can’t do that either anymore. I could also tell them how much smoother the OS was over android, but again, can’t do that anymore. Most updated apps have a consistent enough feel.

    I’ve been using android on an S8+ for a little over a week now and I haven’t missed much from Windows mobile. There are those that say android will lag after some time but my 950xl will lag some times. There are those that say the battery life will be horrible, on the S8+ it’s not (16 hours plus with some heavy usage and still over 20% left, the XL would have been long dead). There are those that will say you’ll have to factory reset to make android work again, I’ve had to do the same with mobile 10.

    My take on android is the same as it is with Windows not on arm, you get what you pay for when it comes to hardware. The 300-400 dollar laptop is not as good of an experience as the high end devices. Now this is the one plus windows mobile has on android and even IOS is that it scales very nicely. A custom rom can be built for whatever hardware it’s running on, but that is rarely done, instead it’s about building more features in at the expense of performance.

    Another area windows mobile really shines and probably the number one thing I miss is global theme ability. I HATE bright white backgrounds and there are lots of them in the Samsung rom. Granted MS has not been very consistent with theme support in their own apps, but 3rd party app makers always seem to bring it.

    Maybe it’s just me but the keyboard went downhill in mobile 10. I like that I can pick whatever I want in android. I like that I can use a password manager.

    SMS/MMS/Skype has been a disaster on mobile 10. This experience alone has helped push me away. On 7 and8 the experience was so fluid and that was completely destroyed. I’m using Textra on android and I like the experience that gives over the stock messaging. Skype works better on android!

    Wallet on mobile 10 has been okay for me. My primary debt/credit cards were usable and the feature was reliable after some early hiccups. Android pay accepts EVERY one of my cards though. Android pay needs work in the app, it’s like it was done by the same person for both. No way to sort cards.

    Iris scanner has been a pain I lived with on mobile 10. It’s FAST on the S8 and I can see if I’m holding the phone wrong which is a huge plus. (I gave feedback on this, never to be resolved)

    Start screen: Yes, I miss square tiles on windows, but there is a decent replacement that the developer can make nearly perfect with some tweaks. My home screen is a nice vertical scroll with low energy widgets. Even the icons for some apps will flip and show the notification content, others show the count. Swipe to the right and then I have the vertical list of apps (this is what needs work, there’s no jump list). MS dropped the ball on interactive/exploding tiles IMO. Maybe this is coming at build this year. I think this would make the live tiles much more useful both on mobile and on desktop where I think they are useless currently. Power users don’t open their start window more than for a few seconds.

    Overall look and feel of android to windows in my opinion android is better once you are past the launcher. MS destroyed the design ideas in apps, neon may bring some nice UI ideas back but nothing compares to early metro and even its later revision.
    Apps: Yeah…. I wasn’t an app user on windows 10 because I couldn’t be one……. All of my bank/creditcards have an app. I can now take advantage of local store/restaurant deals. I can watch any TV I want and Chromecast has been a nice cheap addition. Push bullet solves the remote texting problem and it’s actually reliable unlike skype. Supposedly skype on android will beable to sync SMS soon though. I don’t care about games or the silly little apps. My 3 year old loves to play with the fun camera things but other than that my phone is all business. I never could get completely out of the google apps while on windows. My entire office team relies on gchat. I lived with IM+ for years and it was sufficient, but I reset my phone a few months back and IM+ pro no longer showed in the store. It’s nice having a good app for something you heavily use. There have been a number of apps I used that went away.

    Stability: So far, I’d say one is no better or worse. Windows 10 mobile hasn’t won my heart for stability and speed like 8.1 did. I’ve had a few app crashes and my 3
    rd
    party launcher would hang a bit. I think MS just hides OS level crashes a little nicer than android.
    I’m using most MS services and while there is room forimprovement in all of the apps, most offer a good experience.

    Continuum/Dex: I don’t care, right now this is a pipe dream. I think the continuum experience was/is not a good one. I have a dock sitting on my desk as I type this and from time to time I’d plug into it and switch my monitor input to try it out. I guess it’s okay if I HAD to use it, but they have a long way to go. I have no doubt this will be a killer feature in a couple releases, but the 950xl experience is poor IMO. I’m not even going to bother buying the DEX hardware.

    I’m a software developer with most of my experience on the MS Stack. I’ve tinkered with UWP andwp7/8 dev (I don’t have time to play at home unfortunately). The MS stack in my opinion is the best out there. I live in visual studio and visual studio code, nothing comes close to those products. MS can win developers over, but they won’t do it unless they have a really really good cross platform approach. Right now, Xamarmin is good, but not what is needed (My opinion) as it doesn’t help UWP properly. I think there is a plan for that to change which is why they bought them. I’m hoping xamarmin gets modified to essentially take the UWP environment as is to the other platforms. As a developer, I try to cut MS some slack. There are pieces of functionality in Windows that is probably tied to a very small team and they can only work so fast to re-architect so others can extend on it.

    I’m hoping for a surface pro like movement for mobile. That would bring me back to the platform but I won’t jump in at the beginning again. I’ve been burnt too many times by either a change of plans or dropped support. I would buy a device that has a nice docking solution to a larger portable display if the x86 emulation is smooth enough, but sadly I would want the device to be useful while not docked. I’ve moved from being a cheerleader for MS to being very cautiously optimistic. Actually, I’ve been leaning more towards a pessimist though. I’ve been putting off moving away from mobile due to the monetary investment I had in windows hardware. My wife must suffer for sometime before we can afford to replace her phone.

    One thing is certain, I’ll never leave windows on the desktop! I know everyone’s mileage is different when it comes to the usefulness of a device. I’ve given MS 6 years and they’ve given me some good years in return, but windows 10 is just not for me anymore.
    Last edited by Muessig; 04-29-2017 at 10:25 AM. Reason: copy and paste destroyed formatting
    04-29-2017 09:11 AM
  2. BOSDown's Avatar
    Disclaimer: This is purely opinion with some facts sprinkled in.

    I actually love windows mobile, but it no longer loves me. I’ve had a windowsphone since Verizon took their good old time releasing the HTC trophy. That was fresh and actually cool compared to my aging OG Droid with the slider keyboard. Anyone that remembers those days when the people hub was awesome and the camera functionality was blazingly fast and the UI was sexy had a feeling that windows phone was something special. I converted many people in the early days to WP7 and most of them picked up a WP8 on their respective carrier. When WP8 was launched, I jumped over to AT&T so I could pick up the 920. At that point, I had 3 other family members join me on my plan with the best phone of the time.

    WP8 was the start and end of something great. We saw lots of good things and many not so good. NFC payments never really came. Xbox music was a disaster. Apps came and apps went. People hub integration started to get weak until it no longer worked. The integrated Skype feature was short lived and poor. System apps (mail, people,phone, messaging) never got updates that were really needed. I can go on and onabout WP8, lots to like and lots to frown over.

    Fast forward to the launch of Windows mobile 10. I believe in the concept of the mobile initiative. I think if they can pull off all the architectural feats needed to make it work it will be the best OS on the market. MS should have let WP8 live on with minor improvements for at least a year instead of pushing windows 10 mobile into the market. They could have released the 950/950xl with wp8.1 with the option to upgrade to be a beta tester, my guess is they would have sold more. I was an early adopter on the XL and I have mostly had a negative experience. My wife completely hates it. The other 4 people on my plan which consists of 3 950s and one XL really miss the apps. My parents have had 2 vehicles now where they couldn’t take advantage of core features because there was no app. The fact than an app is needed is a different argument, but it didn’tmake them happy that they couldn’t easily remote start their vehicle. My dad threw in the towel and is waiting for his android device now. In the days of 8.1 I could honestly tell people how much easier windows was over android, but I can’t do that either anymore. I could also tell them how much smoother the OS was over android, but again, can’t do that anymore. Most updated apps have a consistent enough feel.

    I’ve been using android on an S8+ for a little over a week now and I haven’t missed much from Windows mobile. There are those that say android will lag after some time but my 950xl will lag some times. There are those that say the battery life will be horrible, on the S8+ it’s not (16 hours plus with some heavy usage and still over 20% left, the XL would have been long dead). There are those that will say you’ll have to factory reset to make android work again, I’ve had to do the same with mobile 10.

    My take on android is the same as it is with Windows not on arm, you get what you pay for when it comes to hardware. The 300-400 dollar laptop is not as good of an experience as the high end devices. Now this is the one plus windows mobile has on android and even IOS is that it scales very nicely. A custom rom can be built for whatever hardware it’s running on, but that is rarely done, instead it’s about building more features in at the expense of performance.

    Another area windows mobile really shines and probably the number one thing I miss is global theme ability. I HATE bright white backgrounds and there are lots of them in the Samsung rom. Granted MS has not been very consistent with theme support in their own apps, but 3rd party app makers always seem to bring it.

    Maybe it’s just me but the keyboard went downhill in mobile 10. I like that I can pick whatever I want in android. I like that I can use a password manager.

    SMS/MMS/Skype has been a disaster on mobile 10. This experience alone has helped push me away. On 7 and8 the experience was so fluid and that was completely destroyed. I’m using Textra on android and I like the experience that gives over the stock messaging. Skype works better on android!

    Wallet on mobile 10 has been okay for me. My primary debt/credit cards were usable and the feature was reliable after some early hiccups. Android pay accepts EVERY one of my cards though. Android pay needs work in the app, it’s like it was done by the same person for both. No way to sort cards.

    Iris scanner has been a pain I lived with on mobile 10. It’s FAST on the S8 and I can see if I’m holding the phone wrong which is a huge plus. (I gave feedback on this, never to be resolved)

    Start screen: Yes, I miss square tiles on windows, but there is a decent replacement that the developer can make nearly perfect with some tweaks. My home screen is a nice vertical scroll with low energy widgets. Even the icons for some apps will flip and show the notification content, others show the count. Swipe to the right and then I have the vertical list of apps (this is what needs work, there’s no jump list). MS dropped the ball on interactive/exploding tiles IMO. Maybe this is coming at build this year. I think this would make the live tiles much more useful both on mobile and on desktop where I think they are useless currently. Power users don’t open their start window more than for a few seconds.

    Overall look and feel of android to windows in my opinion android is better once you are past the launcher. MS destroyed the design ideas in apps, neon may bring some nice UI ideas back but nothing compares to early metro and even its later revision.

    Apps: Yeah…. I wasn’t an app user on windows 10 because I couldn’t be one……. All of my bank/creditcards have an app. I can now take advantage of local store/restaurant deals. I can watch any TV I want and Chromecast has been a nice cheap addition. Push bullet solves the remote texting problem and it’s actually reliable unlike skype. Supposedly skype on android will beable to sync SMS soon though. I don’t care about games or the silly little apps. My 3 year old loves to play with the fun camera things but other than that my phone is all business. I never could get completely out of the google apps while on windows. My entire office team relies on gchat. I lived with IM+ for years and it was sufficient, but I reset my phone a few months back and IM+ pro no longer showed in the store. It’s nice having a good app for something you heavily use. There have been a number of apps I used that went away.

    Stability: So far, I’d say one is no better or worse. Windows 10 mobile hasn’t won my heart for stability and speed like 8.1 did. I’ve had a few app crashes and my 3
    rd
    party launcher would hang a bit. I think MS just hides OS level crashes a little nicer than android.

    I’m using most MS services and while there is room forimprovement in all of the apps, most offer a good experience.

    Continuum/Dex: I don’t care, right now this is a pipe dream. I think the continuum experience was/is not a good one. I have a dock sitting on my desk as I type this and from time to time I’d plug into it and switch my monitor input to try it out. I guess it’s okay if I HAD to use it, but they have a long way to go. I have no doubt this will be a killer feature in a couple releases, but the 950xl experience is poor IMO. I’m not even going to bother buying the DEX hardware.

    I’m a software developer with most of my experience on the MS Stack. I’ve tinkered with UWP andwp7/8 dev (I don’t have time to play at home unfortunately). The MS stack in my opinion is the best out there. I live in visual studio and visual studio code, nothing comes close to those products. MS can win developers over, but they won’t do it unless they have a really really good cross platform approach. Right now, Xamarmin is good, but not what is needed (My opinion) as it doesn’t help UWP properly. I think there is a plan for that to change which is why they bought them. I’m hoping xamarmin gets modified to essentially take the UWP environment as is to the other platforms. As a developer, I try to cut MS some slack. There are pieces of functionality in Windows that is probably tied to a very small team and they can only work so fast to re-architect so others can extend on it.

    I’m hoping for a surface pro like movement for mobile. That would bring me back to the platform but I won’t jump in at the beginning again. I’ve been burnt too many times by either a change of plans or dropped support. I would buy a device that has a nice docking solution to a larger portable display if the x86 emulation is smooth enough, but sadly I would want the device to be useful while not docked. I’ve moved from being a cheerleader for MS to being very cautiously optimistic. Actually, I’ve been leaning more towards a pessimist though. I’ve been putting off moving away from mobile due to the monetary investment I had in windows hardware. My wife must suffer for sometime before we can afford to replace her phone.

    One thing is certain, I’ll never leave windows on the desktop! I know everyone’s mileage is different when it comes to the usefulness of a device. I’ve given MS 6 years and they’ve given me some good years in return, but windows 10 is just not for me anymore.

    Good day dear Sir,

    I am coming from you are headed to!

    And let me tell you IT IS NOT that much different there! The "grass looks greener on the other side" saying has never applied MORE!!

    First off, so i dont sound biased, I am HEAVILY invested into Android ecosystem, hundreds of dollars into the app store then a about another 50 or so in GALAXY themes, apps and add ons for my Samsung watch, and I am ready to let it ALL GO!! why????? becasue Android and google are getting out of control! they were AMAZING when they were the underdog, when they were the ones trying to revolutionize the market, guess what though?? they are starting to make the same mistakes microsoft did BACK IN THE DAY! the tables have turned though, now Apple and google are the ones to YET make the mistakes MS and Windows ecosystem is ALREADY moving forward from!! I, like yourself, am a developer, on a different level because i design electrics, circuits and write drivers, code and integration. So i can safely say i understand your point of view, however i chose to move away from a system into which i can already see a downfall! unlike you I have seen the last 6 generations of candy branded OS evolutions on android and with EVERY ONE THEY HAVE MOVED away from this "free" feeling platform to more and more constrained one, every iteration has changes to tighten the rains more and more, like a frog in a pot, the water is getting warmer and warmer until its too late! As a new android user it will 'wow' you with all the pritty colors and animations until you start to dig deeper, and you will, such is our nature as computer people. You will inevitably find that what awaits you in the bottom of the rabbit hole is a system designed to EXPLOIT everyithing you do on your phone, EVERY keystroke is logged and transmitted, everywhere you go ( even if your location service if OFF) is logged and transmitted!! you are now a part of a system designed to monitor, log and record everything you do! EVERYTHING! with ONE purpose! To create a "profile" of the human condition at that very instance and then to set you on a path full adds and marketing!! EVEN gmail is FLOODED with adds nowadays!!! Oh and yeah guess what, YOU CANNOT turn the tracking off!! How do you think google traffic works?? Research for yourself...

    APP GAP, believe me when i tell you this APPS wont matter very soon! I like you live in VS and choose to be a part of the future and i plan on making a diffence with my skills too! you should too!!

    Now if you excuse me i am headed to the Microsoft store as stated in a previous post!

    Regards

    B.O.S
    04-29-2017 10:11 AM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    Disclaimer: This is purely opinion with some facts sprinkled in.

    I actually love windows mobile, but it no longer loves me. I’ve had a windowsphone since Verizon took their good old time releasing the HTC trophy. That was fresh and actually cool compared to my aging OG Droid with the slider keyboard. Anyone that remembers those days when the people hub was awesome and the camera functionality was blazingly fast and the UI was sexy had a feeling that windows phone was something special. I converted many people in the early days to WP7 and most of them picked up a WP8 on their respective carrier. When WP8 was launched, I jumped over to AT&T so I could pick up the 920. At that point, I had 3 other family members join me on my plan with the best phone of the time.

    WP8 was the start and end of something great. We saw lots of good things and many not so good. NFC payments never really came. Xbox music was a disaster. Apps came and apps went. People hub integration started to get weak until it no longer worked. The integrated Skype feature was short lived and poor. System apps (mail, people,phone, messaging) never got updates that were really needed. I can go on and onabout WP8, lots to like and lots to frown over.

    Fast forward to the launch of Windows mobile 10. I believe in the concept of the mobile initiative. I think if they can pull off all the architectural feats needed to make it work it will be the best OS on the market. MS should have let WP8 live on with minor improvements for at least a year instead of pushing windows 10 mobile into the market. They could have released the 950/950xl with wp8.1 with the option to upgrade to be a beta tester, my guess is they would have sold more. I was an early adopter on the XL and I have mostly had a negative experience. My wife completely hates it. The other 4 people on my plan which consists of 3 950s and one XL really miss the apps. My parents have had 2 vehicles now where they couldn’t take advantage of core features because there was no app. The fact than an app is needed is a different argument, but it didn’tmake them happy that they couldn’t easily remote start their vehicle. My dad threw in the towel and is waiting for his android device now. In the days of 8.1 I could honestly tell people how much easier windows was over android, but I can’t do that either anymore. I could also tell them how much smoother the OS was over android, but again, can’t do that anymore. Most updated apps have a consistent enough feel.

    I’ve been using android on an S8+ for a little over a week now and I haven’t missed much from Windows mobile. There are those that say android will lag after some time but my 950xl will lag some times. There are those that say the battery life will be horrible, on the S8+ it’s not (16 hours plus with some heavy usage and still over 20% left, the XL would have been long dead). There are those that will say you’ll have to factory reset to make android work again, I’ve had to do the same with mobile 10.

    My take on android is the same as it is with Windows not on arm, you get what you pay for when it comes to hardware. The 300-400 dollar laptop is not as good of an experience as the high end devices. Now this is the one plus windows mobile has on android and even IOS is that it scales very nicely. A custom rom can be built for whatever hardware it’s running on, but that is rarely done, instead it’s about building more features in at the expense of performance.

    Another area windows mobile really shines and probably the number one thing I miss is global theme ability. I HATE bright white backgrounds and there are lots of them in the Samsung rom. Granted MS has not been very consistent with theme support in their own apps, but 3rd party app makers always seem to bring it.

    Maybe it’s just me but the keyboard went downhill in mobile 10. I like that I can pick whatever I want in android. I like that I can use a password manager.

    SMS/MMS/Skype has been a disaster on mobile 10. This experience alone has helped push me away. On 7 and8 the experience was so fluid and that was completely destroyed. I’m using Textra on android and I like the experience that gives over the stock messaging. Skype works better on android!

    Wallet on mobile 10 has been okay for me. My primary debt/credit cards were usable and the feature was reliable after some early hiccups. Android pay accepts EVERY one of my cards though. Android pay needs work in the app, it’s like it was done by the same person for both. No way to sort cards.

    Iris scanner has been a pain I lived with on mobile 10. It’s FAST on the S8 and I can see if I’m holding the phone wrong which is a huge plus. (I gave feedback on this, never to be resolved)

    Start screen: Yes, I miss square tiles on windows, but there is a decent replacement that the developer can make nearly perfect with some tweaks. My home screen is a nice vertical scroll with low energy widgets. Even the icons for some apps will flip and show the notification content, others show the count. Swipe to the right and then I have the vertical list of apps (this is what needs work, there’s no jump list). MS dropped the ball on interactive/exploding tiles IMO. Maybe this is coming at build this year. I think this would make the live tiles much more useful both on mobile and on desktop where I think they are useless currently. Power users don’t open their start window more than for a few seconds.

    Overall look and feel of android to windows in my opinion android is better once you are past the launcher. MS destroyed the design ideas in apps, neon may bring some nice UI ideas back but nothing compares to early metro and even its later revision.

    Apps: Yeah…. I wasn’t an app user on windows 10 because I couldn’t be one……. All of my bank/creditcards have an app. I can now take advantage of local store/restaurant deals. I can watch any TV I want and Chromecast has been a nice cheap addition. Push bullet solves the remote texting problem and it’s actually reliable unlike skype. Supposedly skype on android will beable to sync SMS soon though. I don’t care about games or the silly little apps. My 3 year old loves to play with the fun camera things but other than that my phone is all business. I never could get completely out of the google apps while on windows. My entire office team relies on gchat. I lived with IM+ for years and it was sufficient, but I reset my phone a few months back and IM+ pro no longer showed in the store. It’s nice having a good app for something you heavily use. There have been a number of apps I used that went away.

    Stability: So far, I’d say one is no better or worse. Windows 10 mobile hasn’t won my heart for stability and speed like 8.1 did. I’ve had a few app crashes and my 3
    rd
    party launcher would hang a bit. I think MS just hides OS level crashes a little nicer than android.

    I’m using most MS services and while there is room forimprovement in all of the apps, most offer a good experience.

    Continuum/Dex: I don’t care, right now this is a pipe dream. I think the continuum experience was/is not a good one. I have a dock sitting on my desk as I type this and from time to time I’d plug into it and switch my monitor input to try it out. I guess it’s okay if I HAD to use it, but they have a long way to go. I have no doubt this will be a killer feature in a couple releases, but the 950xl experience is poor IMO. I’m not even going to bother buying the DEX hardware.

    I’m a software developer with most of my experience on the MS Stack. I’ve tinkered with UWP andwp7/8 dev (I don’t have time to play at home unfortunately). The MS stack in my opinion is the best out there. I live in visual studio and visual studio code, nothing comes close to those products. MS can win developers over, but they won’t do it unless they have a really really good cross platform approach. Right now, Xamarmin is good, but not what is needed (My opinion) as it doesn’t help UWP properly. I think there is a plan for that to change which is why they bought them. I’m hoping xamarmin gets modified to essentially take the UWP environment as is to the other platforms. As a developer, I try to cut MS some slack. There are pieces of functionality in Windows that is probably tied to a very small team and they can only work so fast to re-architect so others can extend on it.

    I’m hoping for a surface pro like movement for mobile. That would bring me back to the platform but I won’t jump in at the beginning again. I’ve been burnt too many times by either a change of plans or dropped support. I would buy a device that has a nice docking solution to a larger portable display if the x86 emulation is smooth enough, but sadly I would want the device to be useful while not docked. I’ve moved from being a cheerleader for MS to being very cautiously optimistic. Actually, I’ve been leaning more towards a pessimist though. I’ve been putting off moving away from mobile due to the monetary investment I had in windows hardware. My wife must suffer for sometime before we can afford to replace her phone.

    One thing is certain, I’ll never leave windows on the desktop! I know everyone’s mileage is different when it comes to the usefulness of a device. I’ve given MS 6 years and they’ve given me some good years in return, but windows 10 is just not for me anymore.
    Thanks for your post. Glad you're enjoying your new device.
    I continue to enjoy my Idol 4s as it meets all my needs. I too, like you, am looking forward to the future of mobile on the Windows platform.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-29-2017 10:22 AM
  4. EliteMikes's Avatar
    "APP GAP, believe me when i tell you this APPS wont matter very soon! I like you live in VS and choose to be a part of the future and i plan on making a diffence with my skills too! you should too!!"

    I don't think it's going to happen very soon, but I agree it will happen. I'm just not sure if we agree how it's going to happen unless you elaborate.

    I'm also not sure how you think I should make a difference with my skills if you are implying helping the UWP platform. My skills keep me employed and my work doesn't center around phone apps but rather larger enterprise applications. UWP will probably never be an option. I have a wife and a 3 year old with another child on the way. I don't have time to be at work for 8 hours (10 with travel) and spend time with the family and also do side work unfortunately. Maybe I misread you there?
    04-29-2017 11:08 AM
  5. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Hi there and thanks for sharing your observations​.

    I've moved this thread to the Phone Wars forum, since it is a direct comparison.
    04-29-2017 11:21 AM
  6. EliteMikes's Avatar
    Hi there and thanks for sharing your observations​.

    I've moved this thread to the Phone Wars forum, since it is a direct comparison.
    Sorry, guess I don't browse the forums much, always just look at 950 and windows mobile one.
    04-29-2017 11:24 AM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Sorry, guess I don't browse the forums much, always just look at 950 and windows mobile one.
    It's not a problem. 😊
    Guytronic, libra89, Elky64 and 1 others like this.
    04-29-2017 12:36 PM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    Try running android on a PC with a 50 inch monitor and tell me it scales nicely :P The apps are designed for phones, in that, it doesn't really scale at all. Scale in terms of screen ratios perhaps. But scale in terms of adaptive UI, not at all. I guess the OS itself can, if its made to. But the software has the same issue win32 legacy apps often do on small screens.

    ATM, in many ways, android and ios are better on phones. Mostly because of apps. But it depends on ones useage patterns to a degree. Much like windows is better on tablets, but it depends on the user too.

    I thought you could code UWP using VS? I'm not a coder, so IDK.

    The topic of apps no longer being important is interesting. I'd say its more a matter of apps designed for only touch, and only small screens no longer being important one day.

    There's super apps, machine learning "skills", and the convergence of devices/folding/scrolling screens, projection, AR, as well as alternate forms of input, like pre-touch screen tech, 3d gestures, facial expression, voice. There's a point in there somewhere where a back catalogue of touch screen only, small screen apps, is locked into a particularly useage and no longer the ideal platform.

    I think of those, probably voice rising as a viable alternative input/output is the closest.

    There will always be touch, but I think it will become something more like "basic" medium, one day, something that is less advanced, for basic useage. For things like kiosks, and as a secondary input on devices with several other modes of display and input.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-30-2017 at 09:45 PM.
    Josiah23 likes this.
    04-30-2017 09:31 PM
  9. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Hmm, interesting. Cortana works on android.




    Sent from mTalk
    Ntei and aximtreo like this.
    04-30-2017 11:18 PM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    Hmm, interesting. Cortana works on android.

    http://i.imgur.com/VF0RVtw.jpg


    Sent from mTalk
    She's on iOS too.
    Josiah23 likes this.
    04-30-2017 11:32 PM
  11. EliteMikes's Avatar
    Try running android on a PC with a 50 inch monitor and tell me it scales nicely :P The apps are designed for phones, in that, it doesn't really scale at all. Scale in terms of screen ratios perhaps. But scale in terms of adaptive UI, not at all. I guess the OS itself can, if its made to. But the software has the same issue win32 legacy apps often do on small screens.

    ATM, in many ways, android and ios are better on phones. Mostly because of apps. But it depends on ones useage patterns to a degree. Much like windows is better on tablets, but it depends on the user too.

    I thought you could code UWP using VS? I'm not a coder, so IDK.

    The topic of apps no longer being important is interesting. I'd say its more a matter of apps designed for only touch, and only small screens no longer being important one day.

    There's super apps, machine learning "skills", and the convergence of devices/folding/scrolling screens, projection, AR, as well as alternate forms of input, like pre-touch screen tech, 3d gestures, facial expression, voice. There's a point in there somewhere where a back catalogue of touch screen only, small screen apps, is locked into a particularly useage and no longer the ideal platform.

    I think of those, probably voice rising as a viable alternative input/output is the closest.

    There will always be touch, but I think it will become something more like "basic" medium, one day, something that is less advanced, for basic useage. For things like kiosks, and as a secondary input on devices with several other modes of display and input.

    UI scaling is not what I meant by scaling. Windows mobile runs nicely on lower end hardware. Android does not. I'd argue that windows 10 doesn't run great on junk x86 hardware either.

    UWP is done with VS. Most developers have no interest in UWP for a desktop app because there are too many restrictions. This may change, but WPF is soo much more powerful. UWP offers some benefits which win32 apps can take advantage of, but that list is really small and not worth the effort if it's not a widely distributed application. Touch isn't a thing in the workplace really.
    05-01-2017 08:18 AM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    UI scaling is not what I meant by scaling. Windows mobile runs nicely on lower end hardware. Android does not. I'd argue that windows 10 doesn't run great on junk x86 hardware either.

    UWP is done with VS. Most developers have no interest in UWP for a desktop app because there are too many restrictions. This may change, but WPF is soo much more powerful. UWP offers some benefits which win32 apps can take advantage of, but that list is really small and not worth the effort if it's not a widely distributed application. Touch isn't a thing in the workplace really.
    Makes sense, windows is a realtime multitasking OS with a complex stack. Android runs an emulation of a realtime OS, even though its not a RT OS, and has a moderate complexity stack. Windows 10 mobile doesn't really run much realtime and thus runs well on less ram, and less battery useage with a thin stack. Hence the ram and cpu performance requirements of each (well that and software, full PC software is way more powerful generally speaking, the development funding is higher, the hardware is there to power it and people want more powerful applications than on small screen smartphones)

    Development pretty much always depends on audience. I hear you on the restrictions, game developers feel the same way (no exclusive full screen mode for example).

    I mean some apps would be lovely on a tablet but they just aint designed that way- adobe illustrator for example would be really nice as a UWP for smaller tablets. I'm sure it would have a small dedicated audience there of creators who continue to work on their projects while away from the desk.

    Enterprise are core consumers of tablets (they have definitely loved that surface since its inception), and people like artists and students - but yeah, its still only 5% marketshare, windows tablets (even if its the fastest growing segment of tablets, even while the android/ios premium end have shrunk).

    When windows on arm, and windows cloud come out, and console is more unified with PC via project scorpio (all tied together by cshell), hopefully the audiences will become more compelling for developers.

    Personally, I think with increased cross hardware/FF unification, and the pitch to budget mobile devices like
    tablets/notebooks/hybrids, that audience will grow out, but we will soon see.

    The code once, deploy multiply aspect has to have some appeal, when it properly comes together, and IF the numbers get there especially in terms of MS trying to own that tablet, hybrid, notebook space.

    What is WPF?
    05-01-2017 08:32 AM
  13. Guzzler3's Avatar
    My 2 cents.

    I've just recently picked up a Moto G4+ updated to Nougat. I've had about a week with it, mainly because of the "app gap" and my work has an app that is just written for iOS or Android and there are no plans to port to UWP.

    I have to say it is nicer than iOS, because personally every time I have to help someone with an iPhone I just want to throw the device against the wall for some reason. With Android, it's only half as bad.

    What I really miss is the frik'n Live tiles. I really never thought much about it till it was gone, but the ability to quickly glance at the home screen and see what each app is doing was bloody brilliant!!! Also to be able to resize them (small, med, wide, etc), also brilliant!! Make the apps that are important to you BIG tiles, then adjust them down in size accordingly to their importance.

    Also the consistent UI through apps and the OS was really nice. I've written some programs through my life, and one thing that I always did was consult the documentation that Microsoft always publishes about proper User Interface design. I've always enjoyed programs and apps that followed the recommendations because you knew that it would be consistant. With iOS and Android, I never get that feeling of consistency. It feels like some the app designers don't care and just "throw the UI out there and see if it sticks", so I'm always hunting around their app to find things.

    (side note: I hated the day the MS moved the "..." settings from the bottom right to the hamburger in the upper left, just to try to get Android/iOS developers to write code. How hard is to understand that those two icons mean the same thing, but just in different screen locations? And darn it, the "..." at the bottom right is so much easier to press get to on a small screen)

    Other things are small things, that MS took the time to look at iOS and Android and say "I wish "this" (what ever "this" is) was built in the OS" and they did it. Or "It could be implemented easier", and they did it.

    I really should make a notes (in OneNote of course) every time I find something missing in Android that WP or WM did better.

    But one that hits me everyday is missing Cortana being able to read aloud my text messages while I'm driving, and allowing me to reply via speech to text either via the audio jack or Bluetooth. Android, I have to buy an app to do that.

    Heck now that I think about it, I bet if I do make a list of all the little things I find missing in Android vs WM, someone can come back with "There's an App for that!!!" Which will most likely entail a free version that almost does what I would need, but has an in app purchase to get exactly what we had for free in WM.
    05-02-2017 11:44 PM
  14. JJanner's Avatar
    I'm >this< close to buying Sony Xperia ZX Premium in June. I've loved WP and MS (still have my DOS 1.01 diskette) but some of the newer hardware, and some apps in the gap, are calling. Meanwhile waiting for word of Surface Phone. Love my 950, miss my 8X and 1520. And my Moto Q.
    05-03-2017 09:48 AM
  15. WPWeasel's Avatar
    I switched back to Android a few weeks back after being on WP for the last 6+ years (started with HTC HD7). The Honor 8 device I'm using is fairly snappy, despite being a last year, mid range phone. And I'm certainly more productive now, as I'm able to use many apps that simply weren't available on WP (+ all of the Microsoft apps). Even the store is light years ahead of Microsoft's. Apps download and install in seconds, unlike the painful start and stop routine that was involved with downloading and installing apps from the Microsoft store.

    Also, some expected functionality around Bluetooth usage simply works now - I get in my car and my Spotify playlist automatically (in most cases) starts playing via the cars bluetooth connection.

    That having been said, Android still feels like a hodge podge of software components to me, rather than a cohesive OS. Even the step down that W10M was from WP8.1 felt more seamless than Nougat does to me.

    And, echoing everyone else, I dearly miss live tiles. Having to deal with poorly designed and optimized Widgets, as well as notifications spewing out all over the place simply does not make for a good user experience. Microsoft really nailed that aspect of the WP design.

    It's clear that I made the right call in switching to Android, purely from a productivity standpoint. But I miss the WP interface and would definitely be open to switching back if/when the app ecosystem is improved. That (as well as the store itself) need drastic improvements. Until I see strong evidence that situation has dramatically improved, I'm sticking with Android.
    05-03-2017 09:53 AM
  16. buffalosolja's Avatar
    So I am on the fence about this recently not getting rid of my 950xl but a fault I had in port a while back has had me thinking. Now I get a good bit of information from my brother who now works for ATT (I am a former manager) about Android and IOS. He tells me his experience with Android is that when memory exceeds 70% and after 7-8 months they slow down. I don't have this issue with my windows mobile. I am not app centric but would be nice to have some of the one's we lost (family room replacement). Below are the questions I have for you guys.

    Does productivity actually increase for you guys?

    Is battery life somewhat comparable?

    Does android really keep that much data that you can't opt out of?

    Is data usage higher? (My wife and daughter have IOS and Android and they are 2-3x higher than mine)

    Would be convenient to share common fun things with my wife and daughter (certain apps).
    05-03-2017 10:06 AM
  17. tomaskapler's Avatar
    I have switched from Lumia 640 to come 150$ china Android. Before Lumia I got iPhone (for few months i got also work Samsung Galaxy S3 and iPhone) and just two weeks ago i thought i have lost my Lumia so i have been using new iPhone for a week.

    IMO iPhones are still the best. I think from UX perspective they were great till iOS 6, but they make many things worse after that. Windows are the second and that's why i love them - for 20-40 % you got device that solve almost everything same great, something even better. And Android is still horrible, still messy even with the latest versions. Every app there looks different, got different icons on different places with different names. And after some times it becomes clumsy ...

    BUT they exist. There are tons of new Android phones for few dolars. Give me the hardware of my current 150$ phone with windows software and i will buy it immediately. I do not want 2+ years old windows phones and pay extra for 950/950XL that are dead now.

    Or even better - give me finaly that Surface Phone - some phone which i can connect with my keyboard, monitor and mouse and would have standard Windows 10 with standard applications - and i will pay even more that for iPhone, because it would save me from my big bag with notebook, i have to took everyday to my work and then back to home. I do not need speed, my notebook is 2+ years old and i am perfectly fine with that.

    So back comparing Android/Windows - there are just few things, that are better on Android - obviously number of applications, but i haven't got almost any problem with anything what i am using (except Pokemon Go, that i played for some time and what was the reason i have switched). And sometimes the speed (but that might be thanks to the slow 640 comparing the much never android mobile - but as they are still for about the same price it makes sense to compare it anyway).
    CyberAngel_777 likes this.
    05-03-2017 10:13 AM
  18. Arjun Jasyal's Avatar
    I only loved windows tiles UI!
    That's it.
    My 520 died after 2 years, on budget I bought an Android.
    After that, I found "windows 8 launcher" on the store. It was all I wanted. I still have the tile experiance. Enjoys Google Chrome and YouTube. That's it;")
    05-03-2017 10:15 AM
  19. Kanooke's Avatar
    Went to upgrade my phone and went Android because my carrier no longer has Windows phones. And to my surprise found it great. Some of my Windows apps like Podcasts and Flixster never did work right, but on Android, they were seamless and smooth, and I found much more variety and support for apps then I ever did on Windows.
    Unfortunately I cracked my screen so I've come back to Windows while my phone gets repaired, and have noticed that in my absence my banking app will be going the way of the dodo come June. Something that probably won't happen on Android due to sheer numbers.
    I do prefer Windows phone, but sadly it doesn't seem like Microsoft wants to give the dedication, care, and attention that's needed to make it a competitive and successful phone in the marketplace. So once I get my Roid back, this WP will go back in the draw for back up use only. Something which kind of makes me sad.
    TheJimmyBubbles likes this.
    05-03-2017 10:23 AM
  20. sujitintel's Avatar
    I AM POSTING THIS AS I AM SO FRUSTRATED WITH ****TY APPS AND THE PLATFORM: After using Windows phones for the last 5 years, I came to know that Windows Mobile is the worst platform when it comes to app support. Even Microsoft is not so interested in doing something for this platform... why Should I give a ****.
    Next Week I will be switching to android and make that as my primary one, that deserves obviously.
    At least I wont be compromising with apps and limited apps services along with reliability of Android apps.
    No more crashes and app lags while multi tasking, I mean REAL MULTI TASKING, not the fake one with Windows 10 Mobile.
    mgkole likes this.
    05-03-2017 10:24 AM
  21. Stiv X's Avatar
    Simply put, as people transition to Android or iPhones, the app gap will become noticed more and more. This will prevent people from coming back to W10Mobile. So, MS did themselves a disservice by not even attempting to keep people invested in W10M.
    NYCMetsPDX likes this.
    05-03-2017 10:28 AM
  22. Robert Aspgren's Avatar
    I got a Samsung s7 from work that I now use as my daily driver. But I do miss my 950 so, so much. Luckily I found a great launcher called Squarehome2. So now I have a android phone that kinda looks like a wp, but without the live tiles, which is a BIG deal. What I do like about android is that now I don't have worry about any app support. Now I know that my phone will work and that's really nice. I'm not a big app user, so no I don't really need the app support, but its nice to know its there. But yes I love the wp ui, the home screen with the live tiles are so much better than anything android can achieve and that's what's important to me. So would I have stayed with android if I didn't had to? No, actually not. Maybe I'm to much of a wp freak by now, but the ui and the personalization are the most important things to me when it comes to phones and on that point wp is definitely the best. But it needs apps to succeed, hopefully windows 10 S will help with that.
    NYCMetsPDX and sholokov like this.
    05-03-2017 10:30 AM
  23. leops1984's Avatar
    I moved to Android on an HTC 10 from my Lumia 920 about a year ago. What do I like? I like the app support. You are definitely a first-class citizen for most third-party apps, something I never felt in Windows. The hardware itself is excellent - the HTC 10 is an underappreciated phone from the 2016 flagship generation. I got an unlocked device, so updates are at an acceptable pace - I received Nougat on it already. I have no complaints about its performance either in apps, or taking photos, or as a music player.

    What don't I like? I still miss Metro. I really liked the tiled interface and appreciated its density. My current phone has a bigger screen, but the live tiles still allowed me to see more information at a glance from multiple apps. I miss the Nokia touches in hardware - the HTC 10 is well made, but it's not particularly unique. (And I miss wireless charging, but I'll acknowledge other devices have that.)

    And to some degree I miss the apps. The very best Windows Phone apps - Nextgen Reader, Readit - were every bit as good, if not better, than their Android counterparts. To go back to Metro, there was definitely a design aesthetic there which I miss in Android.

    From a purely functional perspective, Android wins hands down. But Windows Phone is still my first love in the world of mobile.
    05-03-2017 10:39 AM
  24. lubbalots's Avatar
    MS's incompetence in the mobile space is amazing! I switched to the iPhone when Nadella was accepted as ceo, fired Elop and team, and tried to attract Android users by changing WP UI language. Today, love iPhone and will never go back to wp. Regarding Nadella, he does not know anything mobile! His head will always be in the cloud. By destroying wp, he also destroyed the trust of major Devs and WP users. Trying to get back he will climb a way steeper hill.
    docsp1, Blomsternisse and mgkole like this.
    05-03-2017 10:40 AM
  25. etphoto's Avatar
    Simply put, as people transition to Android or iPhones, the app gap will become noticed more and more. This will prevent people from coming back to W10Mobile. So, MS did themselves a disservice by not even attempting to keep people invested in W10M.
    Agree. Even losing money on the phone side of things MS should have realized the future in tech is mobile, so they should have kept their foot in the door until they developed what ever they are evidently going too. Now, because of the people leaving WP in droves, when they do finally release something its going to be harder to bring them back.

    I was a big time WebOS user and when I finally was forced to change platforms I always told myself that if LG ever releases a WebOS phone I'd go back. Now, I don't think I would because of my investment in the Windows ecosystem. As my dad always use to say, you better "sh*t or get off the pot". MS better make their move in mobile (if that is what they eventually want to do) or its going to be too late (if it isn't already).

    Sent from mTalk
    NYCMetsPDX, Stiv X and dgr_874 like this.
    05-03-2017 10:48 AM
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