08-13-2017 06:17 PM
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  1. RumoredNow's Avatar
    Why should they put their hard earned money down on something that doesn't give them satisfaction?
    In my estimation they haven't tried alternatives so they have no idea whether any of them satisfy their needs or not. The industry tries mightily to steer them away (which is, of course, only natural in a competitive market space). Familiarity, complacency, timidity... Various factors combine (and the majority is severely under-informed [tech press complicity there]) to prevent most consumers from venturing into alternates.

    Hopefully, you can see the fallacious nature of your argument that the systems "don't provide satisfaction" as the adoption rates are so low.

    Not using something ever is no indicator of whether it works for you or not, it only indicates adoption rates. It's not like all the alternates have been tried by each and every user who then selected the best fit for themselves from personal experience. You're conflating issues and assigning causation where only a correlation (at best) might exist.

    If you'd never heard of the influenza vaccine, or had declined to get inoculated, is not proof that the influenza vaccine is useless to you.
    Last edited by RumoredNow; 08-11-2017 at 09:44 AM.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    08-11-2017 09:17 AM
  2. TgeekB's Avatar
    In my estimation they haven't tried alternatives so they have no idea whether any of them satisfies their needs or not. The industry tries mightily to steer them away (which is, of course, only natural in a competitive market space). Familiarity, complacency, timidity... Various factors combine (and the majority is severely under-informed [tech press complicity there]) to prevent most consumers from venturing into alternates.

    Hopefully, you can see the fallacious nature of your argument that the systems "don't provide satisfaction" as the adoption rates are so low.

    Not using something ever is no indicator of whether it works for you or not, it only indicates adoption rates. It's not like all the alternates have been tried by each and every user who then selected the best fit for themselves from personal experience. Your conflating issues and assigning causation where only a correlation (at best) might exist.

    If you'd never heard of the influenza vaccine, or had declined to get inoculated, is not proof that the influenza vaccine is useless to you.
    There s not an alternative to the influenza vaccine, so that is not a valid example.
    Also, why should people try all the alternative OS's if they are satisfied with the current ones? I truly feel for you for not being happy with iOS or Android but you can't expect everyone else to test alternatives to fit your situation. Sure, a few people may switch but there is no proof a substantial amount of people would.
    Again, I throw this back on the alternative OS's. Build something worthy, news will spread, users will recommend it and it will become mainstream. It's how it works.
    Please let us know how Sailfish goes. Who knows, you could be the catalyst it needs.
    08-11-2017 09:46 AM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    There s not an alternative to the influenza vaccine, so that is not a valid example.
    Also, why should people try all the alternative OS's if they are satisfied with the current ones? I truly feel for you for not being happy with iOS or Android but you can't expect everyone else to test alternatives to fit your situation. Sure, a few people may switch but there is no proof a substantial amount of people would.
    Again, I throw this back on the alternative OS's. Build something worthy, news will spread, users will recommend it and it will become mainstream. It's how it works.
    Please let us know how Sailfish goes. Who knows, you could be the catalyst it needs.
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. We, @RumoredNow and I, are webOS refugees. We know what being on a clearly superior OS feels like only to see gross mismanagement pi$$ it away. Many of the features users clamor for were webOS firsts and yet the OS failed. Garbage hardware had a lot to do with it as well but that's an argument for another day. For all its negative press, BB OS10 is much better (as a core OS) than Android could ever dream of being and puts iOS to shame.

    Simply put, people don't want to let go of their binkies even if there's something better. Please note I'm generalizing, the fact you're here shows you were adventurous enough to give WinMo a shot. Sadly, the other 98% is screwing it up for everybody else with death by condescension.
    08-11-2017 11:53 AM
  4. TgeekB's Avatar
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. We, @RumoredNow and I, are webOS refugees. We know what being on a clearly superior OS feels like only to see gross mismanagement pi$$ it away. Many of the features users clamor for were webOS firsts and yet the OS failed. Garbage hardware had a lot to do with it as well but that's an argument for another day. For all its negative press, BB OS10 is much better (as a core OS) than Android could ever dream of being and puts iOS to shame.

    Simply put, people don't want to let go of their binkies even if there's something better. Please note I'm generalizing, the fact you're here shows you were adventurous enough to give WinMo a shot. Sadly, the other 98% is screwing it up for everybody else with death by condescension.
    Hey it's OK to agree to disagree, and yes I disagree!

    How do you quantify WebOS as a "clearly superior" OS, as if that has been scientifically proven and accepted? BB10 puts Android and iPhone "to shame"? Again, how? Wait, I know....better security, the Hub, removable battery.......right? Now we are to assume the 99% didn't hear about the existence of BB10 and these magical innovations. Look, BB10 was an excellent OS (not superior). I was the first person in line to get the Z10 when it came out so I know all about it. It was a "different" OS that had nothing innovative to pull enough people from Android and IPhone. If everyone had tried it would some have switched? Sure, but not enough. Heck, they couldn't even keep enough diehards, what does that tell you?

    Again, if someone is using a particular OS and engrossed in their ecosystem, it takes more than hyperbole to pull them away. How do we know if people aren't just happy with their choice? It's like saying if I would just drive your favorite vehicle, you know I would buy it because you like it and it's "clearly superior". I find it insulting when people claim the other 99% are stupid, sheep, or too lazy to try something different.

    I fully accept that in a perfect world we would have more choices. I thought MS was going to be that company but the dream is fading away. In the mean time, I'm perfectly happy with my iPhone that can do everything I need, despite the fact it doesn't run WebOS or BB10. How am I managing?

    FYI: I find this an interesting topic and hope I don't offend anyone with my comments. I respect people's choices and differences. I believe the market will work itself out over time, technology will develop, and very cool new things are right around the corner for us to argue about for years to come.
    08-11-2017 03:37 PM
  5. Elky64's Avatar
    The way I see it, MSFT had the wherewithal to change the mobile industry but they chose not to. So at this point and time we basically have two viable choices whether we like it or not. Of course that’ll depend on ones needs. But at present I personally feel WM does restrict those yearning for advancements, if not now soon it will if the cards keep being dealt as they have been.

    2-choices - Either you stick w/Windows Mobile dealing with its ramifications by doing so, or switch to Android/iOS accepting their pitfalls while welcoming the added abilities. Orrrrr, you could simply buy multiple handsets on each platform (like me ), which would allow one to have the best of "ALL" worlds. Sounds like a simple solution don't ya think
    Last edited by Elky64; 08-11-2017 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Wording, spelling, etc
    TgeekB and libra89 like this.
    08-11-2017 04:06 PM
  6. leandrodp2016's Avatar
    Who would have thought everything that happened in computers' world after the invention of Windows, Microsoft would be beatable in any ground. You'd believe with all that money and power anything they'd put out would be embraced by the masses. And then late to the party with smartphones, now seemingly leaving that territory, and people opting for Macs... I remember struggling to install Netscape on my win 98 machine, behind my dad's back who though only Microsoft stuff was worth it. Now how tables have turned amazes me. I know realistically and logically more pcs are sold in the world than Macs (mostly due to pricing, availability...) but people are REALLY into macs , and Apple stuff in general. I have no clue how the mighty of the 90s has eventually fallen.
    aximtreo likes this.
    08-11-2017 11:54 PM
  7. Sakitumi's Avatar
    For the offline maps app
    08-12-2017 01:01 AM
  8. Byrese's Avatar
    Please tell me why i must stay with the Windows platform?
    Even Microsoft makes there one suport and apps better for other platforms than for there own platform. Skype is better on any other system than that from Windows on phone or pc. There keyboard on the iPhone is better than on the Windows phone, the Edge browser is more a bug than usable and even Windows 10 is still far behind os-x.

    Why must i stay with the windows platform as other platforms give me what i want and better than Microsoft for there own platform do?

    I have tablets, phones, laptops and a desktop pc running all win10 but i am thinking of switching to apple and android only because of the way Microsoft treates there user by supporting other platform more than there own platform, and than i am not talking only about win mobile.
    I feel like i am used like %%#@ and that microsofts tanks you for getting there product and than say but we help the ones on other platforms because we our platform sucks and we have your money already, thank you and have fun.
    You don't have to do anything. Use what you want. I have an Android but I keep coming back to WP bcuz it's unique. There's nothing like it. More than the others I simply ENJOY WP.

    Sent from my HP Elite x3 on mTalk
    Last edited by Byrese; 08-12-2017 at 01:35 PM.
    G4Grandad likes this.
    08-12-2017 01:39 AM
  9. Elky64's Avatar
    Please tell me why i must stay with the Windows platform?
    Even Microsoft makes there one suport and apps better for other platforms than for there own platform. Skype is better on any other system than that from Windows on phone or pc. There keyboard on the iPhone is better than on the Windows phone, the Edge browser is more a bug than usable and even Windows 10 is still far behind os-x.

    Why must i stay with the windows platform as other platforms give me what i want and better than Microsoft for there own platform do?

    I have tablets, phones, laptops and a desktop pc running all win10 but i am thinking of switching to apple and android only because of the way Microsoft treates there user by supporting other platform more than there own platform, and than i am not talking only about win mobile.
    I feel like i am used like %%#@ and that microsofts tanks you for getting there product and than say but we help the ones on other platforms because we our platform sucks and we have your money already, thank you and have fun.
    If it's meeting your needs and expectations at this point and time then there's no real reason to switch. But going by your post I'd say you are now questioning Windows Mobile's abilities to fulfil those aspects I mentioned. Only way to really find out is by giving the "others" an honest go, seeing for yourself is the only way to know if it is right for YOU.

    Was just recently using my 950 as a daily driver and after 4-days returned to Android. Like the tiles and the ability to have everything on one page so-to-speak, and the simple "swipe up" to access more – we keep live-tiles to a minimum. Yes I am a chronic switcher yet we’re mainly Android 90% of the time now.

    For me (average user here) WM suffices for the necessities such as, calls, e-mails, texting, and photos. Yet one of my gripes, when compared to other platforms, is how the OS still feels so "beta" like. Basically, it is not tweaked for efficiency so stutters, lagging, delays, are always evident when performing many of the operations. Then there's the fact that this phone now severely limits what we (I) can do compared to my droid, mostly due to non-existent apps - just lost another one last week, banking app - then throw in web pages that are inaccessible which we have yet to find a workaround. Almost forgot... the fact that in my experience, Android/iOS has been a "set it and forget it" affair w/Windows Mobile not even being anywhere near close.

    At the end of the day, for me, our Windows Phone's cannot compete in the consistency, performance or ability departments with any of my Androids, and that includes my oldest droid which happens to be 8-months older than our 950. And IMHO, same holds true for iPhone since it too has rivalled WM from my standpoint. It's one thing "hanging on" because it does what you need it to, another because you like its good looks.


    So to answer your question "Please tell me why i must stay with the Windows platform?", YOU DON'T... The ability to have an open mind and not being resistant to change will go a long way in helping one transition, tis going to be inevitable the way I see it.
    Last edited by Elky64; 08-13-2017 at 01:32 AM.
    08-13-2017 12:27 AM
  10. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. We, @RumoredNowFor all its negative press, BB OS10 is much better (as a core OS) than Android could ever dream of being and puts iOS to shame.
    heh, you must not have been forced to actually use a BB10 device. I had first the Z10 then the Q10. I'm sure you can find some of my rantings on crackberry. My coworkers and staff resoundly despised the awful UI also.
    08-13-2017 01:10 AM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    heh, you must not have been forced to actually use a BB10 device. I had first the Z10 then the Q10. I'm sure you can find some of my rantings on crackberry. My coworkers and staff resoundly despised the awful UI also.
    But it was the "iPhone killer".

    It was certainly a different OS that could have been viable had it come out several years earlier and had an app ecosystem. The only thing it shamed was itself.
    08-13-2017 07:26 AM
  12. fatclue_98's Avatar
    But it was the "iPhone killer".

    It was certainly a different OS that could have been viable had it come out several years earlier and had an app ecosystem. The only thing it shamed was itself.
    I compare an OS based on what it can do out of the box. In that regard iOS is severely outclassed by its competitors past and present.

    Sent from my Lumia 1520 via mTalk
    08-13-2017 12:44 PM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    I compare an OS based on what it can do out of the box. In that regard iOS is severely outclassed by its competitors past and present.

    Sent from my Lumia 1520 via mTalk
    I don't have a problem with that statement as long as you add "for you". There is no way you can know what an OS accomplishes for others. BB10 got beat down because it didn't accomplish what the majority needed out of the box.

    I don't take these comparisons personal, I look at history and facts. I also don't take excuses like blaming the carriers, the press or the 99% as legitimate. Of course every individual has different needs or wants, but the majority usually wins. Whether you or I like it or not, until another OS shows it legitimately brings something the others don't and something the majority want, iOS and Android are still the best for the majority of people.

    That includes Windows phone/mobile/andromeda/widget or whatever you want to call it.
    08-13-2017 02:47 PM
  14. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I don't have a problem with that statement as long as you add "for you". There is no way you can know what an OS accomplishes for others. BB10 got beat down because it didn't accomplish what the majority needed out of the box.

    I don't take these comparisons personal, I look at history and facts. I also don't take excuses like blaming the carriers, the press or the 99% as legitimate. Of course every individual has different needs or wants, but the majority usually wins. Whether you or I like it or not, until another OS shows it legitimately brings something the others don't and something the majority want, iOS and Android are still the best for the majority of people.

    That includes Windows phone/mobile/andromeda/widget or whatever you want to call it.
    What an OS does and what users want are on two planes sometimes. For example, iOS has never offered external storage, wireless charging, removable batteries, file management, HDMI video out, cross-platform Bluetooth file sharing, mouse support, NFC tagging, USB-OTG and many others I can't think of right now. With the exception of wireless charging, the lowly Z10 offered all of these. The 950 has all these except HDMI out and iris scanning to boot.

    Out of the box, what does iOS have the others don't? Again, we're not comparing app selection because we then can bring Android into the conversation and then it can get very embarrassing for iOS.

    Sent from my Acer Liquid Jade Primo on mTalk
    RumoredNow likes this.
    08-13-2017 03:22 PM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    What an OS does and what users want are on two planes sometimes. For example, iOS has never offered external storage, wireless charging, removable batteries, file management, HDMI video out, cross-platform Bluetooth file sharing, mouse support, NFC tagging, USB-OTG and many others I can't think of right now. With the exception of wireless charging, the lowly Z10 offered all of these. The 950 has all these except HDMI out and iris scanning to boot.

    Out of the box, what does iOS have the others don't? Again, we're not comparing app selection because we then can bring Android into the conversation and then it can get very embarrassing for iOS.

    Sent from my Acer Liquid Jade Primo on mTalk
    An ecosystem that people want and use in large numbers?Apparently they're somehow surviving without all those "necessities".

    One thing I've learned about Apple is they don't just throw things out there just because they can. They build them into their ecosystem thinking about the future. Not that I agree with every move, but it's hard to argue with the results.
    08-13-2017 03:30 PM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    An ecosystem that people want and use in large numbers?Apparently they're somehow surviving without all those "necessities".

    One thing I've learned about Apple is they don't just throw things out there just because they can. They build them into their ecosystem thinking about the future. Not that I agree with every move, but it's hard to argue with the results.
    Once again, let's leave the ecosystem out of the equation. Google's ecosystem is every bit as robust as Apple's AND their high-end devices come with many, if not most, of the features I've listed. It's probably why Android is the worldwide leader in the mobile sector and it's not even close. I would posit that if Apple had even half these features the gap between number 1 and number 2 would be decidedly closer. Don't confuse me with a hater, I believe Apple has superior apps and their hardware is second to none. But their OS lacks vital features that the competition has and I believe that has hurt them. Apple's marketing department has managed to convince their minions that these features are superfluous and unnecessary. And they should be commended for their efforts.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    08-13-2017 06:00 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    Once again, let's leave the ecosystem out of the equation. Google's ecosystem is every bit as robust as Apple's AND their high-end devices come with many, if not most, of the features I've listed. It's probably why Android is the worldwide leader in the mobile sector and it's not even close. I would posit that if Apple had even half these features the gap between number 1 and number 2 would be decidedly closer. Don't confuse me with a hater, I believe Apple has superior apps and their hardware is second to none. But their OS lacks vital features that the competition has and I believe that has hurt them. Apple's marketing department has managed to convince their minions that these features are superfluous and unnecessary. And they should be commended for their efforts.
    I agree that Android has more features out of the box. It is the leader because their cheap offerings. Apple has a better and more fluid ecosystem (sorry) which means people will pay more for the better experience and lack of fragmentation. BB10 had neither.

    As far as the features you mentioned and value, 99% of people do not care. How many normal users need Bluetooth file sharing? The next iPhone is supposed to have wireless charging if that's important to you. For what the majority of people use their phone for, which is not HDMI, both Android and iPhone fit the bill depending on your personal preference. BB10 is in a graveyard decomposing. They did have to dig different size graves though because the Passport was too wide to fit in a normal one. 🤣

    Hey, that's just my opinion though.

    But isn't this about Windows phone???
    08-13-2017 06:17 PM
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