1. Muessig's Avatar
    So I'm no expert but I can try to learn with everyone here. The idea behind this thread is - if you want to achieve a certain effect or take pictures in a certain light but just don't know how to set the camera up properly, ask in this thread and I'll try to help you out. But it's not just up to me ... if you know the answer to someone else's question feel free to answer it.

    As a starting point to many of the basics of phonetography, have a look through this thread: http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...Bguide%5D.html

    The idea is that we'll all help each other to become better phonetographers!
    Last edited by Muessig; 07-28-2013 at 03:56 AM.
    07-27-2013 04:03 AM
  2. B1zzle's Avatar
    open water
    looking towards shore lines of beaches
    or marshes full of trees
    sun about over head, 5pmish height
    07-27-2013 01:10 PM
  3. ehuna's Avatar
    Bokeh effect - tried with "Auto" on everything, it worked on a flower, but did not work with my wife, she was always in focus. :) Tried going from "m" to "infinite", but then she was blurry no matter what.
    07-27-2013 08:12 PM
  4. anon(5959407)'s Avatar
    Bokeh effect - tried with "Auto" on everything, it worked on a flower, but did not work with my wife, she was always in focus. :) Tried going from "m" to "infinite", but then she was blurry no matter what.
    Alright, I'll tell you how you can accomplish bokeh with the 1020, but please forgive me if in my attempt to use technical terms I get something wrong, haha.

    So aperture/f-number play a big role in pulling off bokeh. The smaller the f-number (ie. for the Lumia 920 it's f/2.0 and for the Lumia 1020 it's f/2.2), the larger the physical aperture of the lens is (measured as the diameter across the lens that controls how much light can ultimately reach the sensor per unit of time). The benefits of these small f-numbers is that they result in what's called "fast lenses"... meaning they allow a lot of light to reach the sensor per unit of time because the aperture of the lens is physically larger in comparison to lenses with larger f-numbers.

    A drawback is that small f-numbered lenses really only focus light into a sharp picture at one specific focal length (determined by the optics through focusing) and light at every other distance flies around like crazy resulting in the blurriness.

    So to produce bokeh, the key is to place your subject in that sweet spot which is usually pretty close to the lens. Here's my example... pretend the toy is your wife, haha

    I put one of my bills behind the toy to illustrate my point. I'm standing fairly far away from both the bill and the toy and because of the distance we can assume they're basically in the same focal plane. So when I focus on one or the other, they'll both be in focus because they're essentially at "infinity"



    So for the second shot, I close the distance a little and put the 1020 up as close to the toy as I can while still being able to use manual focus to direct the focal plane onto the toy. The result is the toy is in the focal plane and the bill is just outside of it, but the 1020 has a relatively long focal length so the bokeh isn't that pronounced.



    But the 1020 has one 41MP trick up its sleeves! If you zoom in as far as you can and then also remain at the minimum physical distance where you can use manual focus at one notch above "auto"... the bokeh effect is amplified (there's also no pesky oversampling to be used to crisp up the background)!



    Hopefully that helps!
    zlx, ajeesh yacob, B1zzle and 2 others like this.
    07-27-2013 08:54 PM
  5. ehuna's Avatar
    That's awesome, I tried it out and I get it now - thanks!
    anon(5959407) likes this.
    07-27-2013 09:33 PM
  6. ehuna's Avatar
    Here's another one, how can I achieve the light rails seen in this picture: Nokia Lumia 1020 camera on show: shutter speed – Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog

    The article does talk about shutter speeds, but does not really give step-by-step instructions, and my feeble attempts at trying this did not work. :(
    07-27-2013 10:57 PM
  7. Ed Boland's Avatar
    Should be able to get that effect by setting your shutter speed to the long (or slow) shutter. Like 2 or 4. Then have the subject move something illuminated around (like a cellphone, flashlight or a lit cigarette).
    The long shutter speeds are how the get the "trail" effects on highways with the headlights and tail lights on the vehicles.
    07-27-2013 11:24 PM
  8. Ed Boland's Avatar
    I'm not an expert either, but I'm pretty sure the effect first talked about in this thread is simply depth of field focusing, not bokeh. Bokeh is something else, using depth of field focusing yes, but a different resulting image.
    Once I get to my computer, I'll come back to this thread and post an example of what bokeh is.
    Last edited by Ed Boland; 07-28-2013 at 06:16 AM.
    07-27-2013 11:29 PM
  9. anon(5959407)'s Avatar
    I'm not an expert either, but I'm pretty sure the effect first talked about in this thread is simply depth if field focusing, not bokeh. Bokeh is something else, using depth of field focusing yes, but a different resulting image.
    Once I get to my computer, I'll cone back to this thread and post an example of what bokeh is.
    You're talking about 2 sides of the same coin.

    Depth of field will define the region where subjects will appear sharp and by narrowing the depth of field you narrow the region where subjects would appear sharp. As the depth of field gets narrower and narrower, everything that falls outside of the depth of field starts to become blurry...THAT characteristic is called bokeh, which is a Japanese word that translates to "blur".

    Depth of field and bokeh exist on the same spectrum.
    Muessig likes this.
    07-28-2013 05:34 AM
  10. ParoleGA's Avatar
    What is a good shutter speed for action shots. Auto won't work well with fast action, but the first half of the dial settings (1/16000-1/50) just return a black photo. ISO settings seem to have no effect. Not sure why they would allow the setting so fast that half the options do not capture enough light to expose a shot.
    Last edited by ParoleGA; 07-28-2013 at 07:14 AM.
    07-28-2013 06:57 AM
  11. anon(5959407)'s Avatar
    What is a good shutter speed for action shots. Auto won't work well with fast action, but the first half of the dial settings (1/16000-1/50) just return a black photo. ISO settings seem to have no effect. Not sure why they would allow the setting so fast that half the options do not capture enough light to expose a shot.
    I'm guessing you're trying to take action shots in low-light? The correct shutter speed depends on the effect you're trying to achieve.

    If you're trying to show motion (like a spinning wheel), then a shutter speed of 1/50 up to 4secs would be the way to go. Realize though that as you go below 1/60 shutter speed, you'll need to either use a monopod/tripod or be VERY still as movements in the camera will translate into overall blurry photos.


    Shutter Speed = 1/25


    If you're looking to take an object in motion and "freeze" it, then a shutter speed of 1/60 or faster would be the way to go.


    Shutter Speed = 1/1600 (if your speed is too fast you get some strange aliasing effects :p)


    As far as shooting in low light, using the xenon flash will allow you to use the faster shutter speeds to get crisp action shots.


    Shutter Speed = 1/60 with Xenon flash enabled and no real environmental lighting
    Last edited by Edwins Hubble; 07-28-2013 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Added example photos
    B1zzle likes this.
    07-28-2013 07:34 AM
  12. ParoleGA's Avatar
    I'm guessing you're trying to take action shots in low-light? The correct shutter speed depends on the effect you're trying to achieve.

    If you're trying to show motion (like a spinning wheel), then a shutter speed of 1/50 up to 4secs would be the way to go. Realize though that as you go below 1/60 shutter speed, you'll need to either use a monopod/tripod or be VERY still as movements in the camera will translate into overall blurry photos.

    Shutter Speed = 1/1600 (if your speed is too fast you get some strange aliasing effects :p)
    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2811/9...fde6b664_o.jpg

    If you're looking to take an object in motion and "freeze" it, then a shutter speed of 1/60 or faster would be the way to go.

    Shutter Speed = 1/25
    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/9...1c1c1200_o.jpg

    As far as shooting in low light, using the xenon flash will allow you to use the faster shutter speeds to get crisp action shots.

    Shutter Speed = 1/60 with Xenon flash enabled and no real environmental light
    http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5535/9...ce235365_o.jpg
    I haven't had blur issues on still objects up to 4 sec shutter, even without a tripod. The OIS seems to do pretty well, with a somewhat steady hand.

    It was indoor light I was testing with yesterday. I wouldn't have called it low light, but apparently I was wrong. Now that the sun is up, I tested outdoors, and even the fastest speeds do return an image.

    Thanks for the feedback. The relation between ambient light, ISO, and shutter speed are fun to play with, but going to take some time for a photo newb to understand.
    Last edited by ParoleGA; 07-28-2013 at 08:14 AM.
    07-28-2013 08:01 AM
  13. Muessig's Avatar
    Here's another one, how can I achieve the light rails seen in this picture: Nokia Lumia 1020 camera on show: shutter speed Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog

    The article does talk about shutter speeds, but does not really give step-by-step instructions, and my feeble attempts at trying this did not work. :(
    Light trails are all about taking a picture over a longer period of time. This means you need to set your shutter speed to the longest you can (4 seconds, I believe) in order to let light in over that period of time. While the picture is being taken over those 4 seconds that's when it's your time to shine. Literally. It's always fun to get a torch and make shapes and write things in the air. Believe me, it's hard to write things accurately and some of the more mind-blowing photo's you can find using this technique are sometimes taken over the course of 10-60 minutes and involve people incredibly skilled at their craft. Search "Light painting" to find out more about this.

    On our phones, though, we can only manage to produce a 4 second exposure. The way you do this is as follows.

    1. Use a tripod. Keeping the shutter open for a longer time means that your camera is extremely sensitive to light and motion. Especially your own motion. Stick your camera on a tripod and use the touch screen to start the exposure.
    2. The actual settings you use will vary a little depending on how much light you want in your scene and the ambient lighting. You want to let in light over a period of time and your camera is designed with a large aperture lens to let the most amount of light in as quick as possible (it's known as a 'fast' lens) so you're going to want to under expose your shot so you don't get a mainly white shot., so stick that on -2. Play around with your ISO levels (your sensitivity to light) and experiment with anything from100-400. The higher the ISO number the more light will be in your picture. You want your camera's sensitivity to light to be low so that your final image doesn't look completely white0washed. Reminder: the higher the ISO setting, the more noise will be in your picture.
    3. Make sure your flash is turned off and also make sure you're focused on the right place in the shot before you take your picture.


    Once you're set up go wild with a torch and you can get some amazing results.

    open water
    looking towards shore lines of beaches
    or marshes full of trees
    sun about over head, 5pmish height
    This one is slightly more difficult. You have to remember that your camera has a fixed f2.2 aperture lens and any kind of photographer will recommend a small aperture lens that's between f5.6-8 or even smaller depending on the scene. The fixed f.2.2 aperture lens in your 1020 means that your camera has a small depth of field, meaning that the area of a scene that's in focus is quite small compared to a small aperture lens, which has a much larger area of a picture that is in focus. What all this means is that your phone isn't really tailored to take landscape shots.

    I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying getting a crisp landscape shot with a large aperture lens is hard. Here's what I'd do to try to get a good picture, nevertheless:

    1. Use a tripod. Any movement on a large aperture lens is exaggerated when it comes to a horizon line and that's the element you're going to want to be pin sharp. If you take a picture like this by hand you're never going to be able to keep it still enough to get it pin sharp unless you compose your picture with the most amount of light you can get. The more light you can get, the sharper your picture is likely to be. The use of a tripod here will mean you can take a longer exposure, giving you some flexibility over the settings you use.
    2. At 5pm with an overhead sun it will vary but I'd try an ISO anywhere between 100-400.
    3. Set your manual focus to infinity. These f2.2 larger aperture lenses are basically built for short-mid range shooting so you're never going to get a horizon line with absolutely crisp details. If you can, try to fill the mid ground with a focal point and make that dominate the scene. If it's close enough, you can try to focus on that point but it will blur the horizon and other background details slightly.
    4. As far as exposure and shutter speed go they depend on the scene. Experiment with a faster shutter speed and slow it down over time with your tripod until you get the result you want. If you can get a tripod you shouldn't really struggle with sharpness.


    I live in the UK so I don't have a 1020 yet (fingers crossed I'll be able to get one at some point!) but I think experimenting with this ball park of settings will give you some acceptable results. Don't forget to shoot landscapes during the golden hours - when the sun rises and sets. It means early morning and late nights but it's worth it.

    What is a good shutter speed for action shots. Auto won't work well with fast action, but the first half of the dial settings (1/16000-1/50) just return a black photo. ISO settings seem to have no effect. Not sure why they would allow the setting so fast that half the options do not capture enough light to expose a shot.
    Like I say I don't have a 1020 as of right now, so Edwins Hubble's pictures will probably give you an idea of what your phone can do, but these are the results I got with my 920 and it's dual-LED flash and a picture without flash. I'll start without the flash:

    coinmotion-no-light.jpg

    So, I played around with all sorts of settings in a medium low internal environment and while there's still some movement on the shot above, I was able to get the majority of the middle section of the coin in focus, which is all you can really ask for with these camera's without a flash.

    1. Now, we want to freeze the motion of something, which means you're only opening the shutter for a fraction of a second. This means we need to set the camera up to take in as much light within the time the shutter is open as physically possible.
    2. I found that using ISO 200-400 gave the best results and didn't give me a load of noise. I set the camera up to over expose the shot as much as I could and made sure to set the focus point manually before the shot.
    3. I used a shutter speed of 1/100 sec because as Edwin said if you use a shutter speed that's too quick you can get a really crazy 'bending coin' effect, known as aliasing. It looks cool but it's not what we want. I found that for the speed I was spinning the coin, 1/100 sec was just about right.


    coinmotion-flash.jpg

    My flash example isn't nearly as good as Edwin's. My 920 only has a dual-LED flash, which is much slower at firing off it's flash than a 1020's Xenon flash. The flash is used to literally 'freeze' motion. You can see the difference this has between the two phones - the 1020's Xenon flash literally freezes the coin's motion and it's basically pin sharp. The 920's flash still captures some motion but the middle section of the coin is sharp. The tail and feet of the lion are basically pin sharp considering how fast the coin itself is spinning.

    To freeze a spinning coin with flash n these conditions, inside in a medium-low light environment we need to take a different approach to the settings without flash.

    1. We can use a higher shutter speed, because we're going to be lighting up the scene, so I used a shutter speed of 1/250 sec. I set the ISO down to 100 because we're lighting up the scene we don't need to make the camera extra-sensitive to light. It also means we won't get much noise at all in the picture.
    2. You can set your exposure to the middle value or perhaps even a little under expose the scene because of the flash. I took the shot slightly too close to the desk, which is why the bottom half of the picture is so white - don't do that when you try!


    I hope some of this has helped!
    07-28-2013 10:14 AM
  14. Kissanviikset's Avatar
    If you want ensure that all photos you take has motion frozen when lighting between scenes changes is to set shutter speed manually somewhere over 1/125 and leave ISO to auto. Then exposure is controlled by ISO value only. When light is very strong like in daylight, that 1/125 shutter speed is too slow and ISO cant go any lower than 100 and your photos turn out completely white. In those situations it is just better leave it auto since shutter speed is going to be very fast anyway.

    Other think is when shooting in low light that fixed 1/125 shutter speed is going to lead some very high ISO values and loads of grain in your photos. In those situations you are forced to use either flash or use slower shutter speed to keep excessive grain out of photos. You are most likely to get some blur from movement but if only movement is from people something like 1/25 could be enough and ISO wont go too high. Movement from cars that travel 50 km/h like in city areas that 1/125 should be enough.

    If there is no movement in your scene then you want to lock ISO value as low as possible (preferably 100) to get just enough light to able exposure shot the way you want and leave shutter speed auto. Then exposure is controller by shutter speed only. If ISO is too low for amount of light it lead too slow shutter speeds and you get blur from hand shaking. Always support yourself to something if possible when using slow shutter speeds to get best results. If using tripod you can always use ISO 100 value.

    It needs some balancing between scenes to get best out of every shot.
    Just keep experiencing shutter speeds and ISO and right values can be found for every situation.
    Last edited by Kissanviikset; 07-28-2013 at 05:13 PM.
    ParoleGA likes this.
    07-28-2013 04:59 PM
  15. jabtano's Avatar
    With the L925 I've doing some snaps with auto off for example this snap was taken in landscape with auto off the distance between my sailboat to this docked boat was roughly100 feet
    I had some rock on the boat so there was slight movement
    wp_20130730_010.jpg
    08-01-2013 01:20 PM
  16. ejb222's Avatar
    Can anyone talk to me about longer shutter speeds in daylight? Every time I try to lengthen the shutter speed in day light I get very white images. I've messed with the EV and ISO...but I can't seem to find anything that works. Please help
    thanks
    08-12-2013 11:25 AM
  17. Muessig's Avatar
    Can anyone talk to me about longer shutter speeds in daylight? Every time I try to lengthen the shutter speed in day light I get very white images. I've messed with the EV and ISO...but I can't seem to find anything that works. Please help
    thanks
    Can you point us towards some examples of what you're trying to achieve in daylight? Longer exposures with daylight will tend to blow out your images.
    09-06-2013 09:10 AM
  18. zlx's Avatar

    But the 1020 has one 41MP trick up its sleeves! If you zoom in as far as you can and then also remain at the minimum physical distance where you can use manual focus at one notch above "auto"... the bokeh effect is amplified (there's also no pesky oversampling to be used to crisp up the background)!

    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/9...4f9b4bda_o.jpg

    Hopefully that helps!
    yeah, that helps a lot, thanks :-)
    02-18-2015 04:22 AM

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