08-25-2016 07:50 PM
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  1. anon(8316658)'s Avatar
    Hi Pappale,

    As per a previous reply....do you own the T899m LTE model and if so what carrier or region provided the FW and SW updates for your ATIV S?

    Some owners have installed DP without a FW update but are having camera, flash and some other relatively minor poor behaviour. Otherwise WP 8.1 seems to be functional radio wise on the T899m. Not sure if LTE is working on these...they may be reverting to HSPA connections. This would seem to indicate FW carrier modification and validation should be minimal if not good to go as provided by Samsung ( assuming Samsung has even sent out said FW ). Samsung FW released for the non LTE model addresses those relatively minor hardware problems with WP8.1. Non LTE models seem to be fine with that FW fix as indicated by posts from owners in the other firmware forum thread.

    I had considered installing DP but my phone stability is important and camera functionality non negotiable.

    Once again please clarify what version / model ATIV S you have rec'd FW and 8.1 updates on. Thanks.
    I have a Samsung Ativ S i8750 unbranded but in the past i had some high and low end phones from carriers so I know how do you feel right now
    01-02-2015 01:44 PM
  2. mdvision's Avatar
    Unfortunately we're dealing with scenario #1 here in Canada. And the problem is that the carriers who initially offered the Ativ S have pretty much stopped caring about them. They had minimal interest in even offering anything Windows Phone related to begin with. They are both pushing the iPhones and Android phones. Bell Canada only offers the Ativ S and the Lumia 830 (which comes with 8.1 already), and that's it. Rogers did offer the Ativ S, and a few other Lumias, but has since dropped the Ativ S. So now we're at the mercy of these carriers possibly releasing the 8.1 updates. And they seem very reluctant to even address the issue. I think that most of us would just be happy to get an answer one way or the other about whether they are going to release it or not. I suspect that neither carrier even has an engineering person on staff who is familiar enough with the OS to know what to do with it to get it ready for release.

    It would be nice if Bell and Rogers could jump on board the Windows Phone bandwagon, but it's a bit of a catch-22 for them. They won't jump on board until they see a desire from customers, but they don't see a desire because they don't actually help to market the phones.

    I have definitely decided that unbranded, unlocked phones are in my future once I'm closer to the end of my contract. Unfortunately the problem we often see on those is that we tend to have the compatibility issues with our carriers using a different frequency for LTE.
    Agree with your post but think even if you have an unlocked ATIV S T899m a FW update would still not be available unless via Samsung. This brings it back to Samsung being responsible for an update which I don't think exists for our phone. Pappale has stated his phone has rec'd both FW and SW updates for 8.1.1. but not confirmed the exact model he has. AFAIK no T899m anywhere has gotten these. If I'm incorrect on this then carriers should have access to the same FW and make it available to their customers.

    Bell is still offering the ATIV S. Why would anyone buy this if support is discontinued? If they have inventory they are stuck with they should update FW and allow the 8.1 update install. Otherwise they are offering an EOL device with no update path and locked to an obsolete state. If they would provide the updates and reduce the price on the ATIV S they could clear out the old inventory, recover some costs, and satisfy their customers already invested in the device. Is there something in this logic that I'm missing?

    Just read a reply from Pappale which confirms he has the Ativ S i8750 and not the T899m LTE version. I was hoping he did have the T899m as that would confirm FW actually exists. I am further convinced carriers don't have a FW update from Samsung for our LTE model. :(
    01-02-2015 02:03 PM
  3. slivy58's Avatar
    ok, look
    two types of mobile phones: 1. branded owned by carriers 2. unbranded for full price without contract
    I'm fully aware of the types 1 & 2, my point is that I have the option of either scenario with Android or even iPhone but that is not the case with "all" WPs, nor are the updates the same, as I stated previously, across the board for a specific WP variant compared to the others. Just finding the Windows phone ecosystem somewhat fragmented which tends to create uncertainty in my opinion, time will tell whether it manages to overcome that hurdle and rise up or just continues to float on the surface.
    Last edited by Elky64; 01-02-2015 at 02:44 PM.
    01-02-2015 02:31 PM
  4. don braithwaite's Avatar
    Agree with your post but think even if you have an unlocked ATIV S T899m a FW update would still not be available unless via Samsung. This brings it back to Samsung being responsible for an update which I don't think exists for our phone. Pappale has stated his phone has rec'd both FW and SW updates for 8.1.1. but not confirmed the exact model he has. AFAIK no T899m anywhere has gotten these. If I'm incorrect on this then carriers should have access to the same FW and make it available to their customers.

    Bell is still offering the ATIV S. Why would anyone buy this if support is discontinued? If they have inventory they are stuck with they should update FW and allow the 8.1 update install. Otherwise they are offering an EOL device with no update path and locked to an obsolete state. If they would provide the updates and reduce the price on the ATIV S they could clear out the old inventory, recover some costs, and satisfy their customers already invested in the device. Is there something in this logic that I'm missing?

    Just read a reply from Pappale which confirms he has the Ativ S i8750 and not the T899m LTE version. I was hoping he did have the T899m as that would confirm FW actually exists. I am further convinced carriers don't have a FW update from Samsung for our LTE model. :(
    I also should have mentioned that if I went with an unbranded/unlocked phone in the future it would never be a Samsung :) As much as I like the brand, it's almost safer to stick with the Lumia line of phones right now when it comes to Windows Phones.

    As for Bell still carrying the EOL ATIV S, I think you answered your own question. They still sell it to get rid of their inventory. Remember that the majority of people buying phones these days really don't care which version of the OS that they have. They just want to make phone calls, access Facebook and Twitter, and text. They might realize that they got shafted after the fact when they can't download some apps that only work on 8.1, but Bell doesn't care about that after they made the sale. A lot of people would see a $0 phone listed on Bell and just get it because it's cheap.

    Is the T899M specific to the Canadian market because of the LTE frequency, or was it released in other countries? For some reason I seem to remember seeing it mentioned in another thread on Windows Central and it was in another country, but I might be mistaken.

    I still suspect that it's the Canadian carriers that have lagged behind on the 8.1 update, but unless we hear from a carrier or from Samsung directly, we may never know. I just keep hoping that if Bell is still listing, it that there is a small chance that someone over there is working on releasing the 8.1 updates. I can dream :)
    01-02-2015 03:02 PM
  5. mdvision's Avatar
    Just got off the phone with a Bell support / complaint escalation team rep.

    Step 3 - Contact the Bell Escalation Team
    If after taking the preceding steps your concern is still not resolved, contact our Bell Escalation Team at 1-866-317-3382. We are committed to resolving your concern.

    Note: Please ensure you complete all of the above steps to have your problem resolved in the most efficient manner.


    The conversation re: the lack of support for the T899m with the rep has me convinced no FW update is pending for our device. I reasonably explained why I considered it a disservice on a premium device which in my case still has a year left in the existing contract agreement and a proportionate early upgrade penalty fee. The rep was courteous and professional and apologised for the situation. I was offered cancellation of the early upgrade fee if I wanted to replace my device which under the circumstances consider a reasonable compromise and positive gesture. The only device I'm interested in that's available via Bell is the 830 but I am hesitant to commit to 2 years and then see a new flagship Windows phone become available in the near future. What to do? Hmmmm.
    01-02-2015 03:36 PM
  6. Mathieu_Desjard's Avatar
    Well, this is clearly a good idea, if everyone call them to switch to a 830, it's a good scenario.

    If you want to stay with Bell, remember that they never offer a great support for WP. In my case, I'll call them for a switch to 830. And I will probably buy an unlock phone in the future.
    Last edited by Mathieu_Desjard; 01-02-2015 at 06:29 PM.
    01-02-2015 05:14 PM
  7. anon(8316658)'s Avatar
    Agree with your post but think even if you have an unlocked ATIV S T899m a FW update would still not be available unless via Samsung. This brings it back to Samsung being responsible for an update which I don't think exists for our phone. Pappale has stated his phone has rec'd both FW and SW updates for 8.1.1. but not confirmed the exact model he has. AFAIK no T899m anywhere has gotten these. If I'm incorrect on this then carriers should have access to the same FW and make it available to their customers.

    Bell is still offering the ATIV S. Why would anyone buy this if support is discontinued? If they have inventory they are stuck with they should update FW and allow the 8.1 update install. Otherwise they are offering an EOL device with no update path and locked to an obsolete state. If they would provide the updates and reduce the price on the ATIV S they could clear out the old inventory, recover some costs, and satisfy their customers already invested in the device. Is there something in this logic that I'm missing?

    Just read a reply from Pappale which confirms he has the Ativ S i8750 and not the T899m LTE version. I was hoping he did have the T899m as that would confirm FW actually exists. I am further convinced carriers don't have a FW update from Samsung for our LTE model. :(
    just a question
    why do you think that Samsung needs to release a new FW? Maybe they did but Bell wont customize it to they needs. Why? Because the Money. They would invest in the new FW (programing) but the selling rates of this device is low because nobody cares about WP, everybody wants an android or Apple ... so it wouldnt generate enough profit. Bell isnt the only one with such problems.. Verizon and Samsung Ativ SE or Lumia Icon is the same = no support
    01-02-2015 06:18 PM
  8. mdvision's Avatar
    Well, this is clearly a good idea, if everyone call them to switch to a 830, it's a good scenario.

    If you want to stay with Bell, remember that they never offer a great support for WP. In my case, I'll call them for a switch to 830. And I will probably buy an unlock phone in the future.
    To be clear..the offer I was given was a waive of the early cancellation fee. An 830 replacement will require a new commitment. With a compatible plan it can be had currently for $0 for a 2 year commitment.
    01-02-2015 11:14 PM
  9. mdvision's Avatar
    just a question
    why do you think that Samsung needs to release a new FW? Maybe they did but Bell wont customize it to they needs. Why? Because the Money. They would invest in the new FW (programing) but the selling rates of this device is low because nobody cares about WP, everybody wants an android or Apple ... so it wouldnt generate enough profit. Bell isnt the only one with such problems.. Verizon and Samsung Ativ SE or Lumia Icon is the same = no support
    You describe a short play logic that makes quick dollar return the priority. Cell carrier companies need to take the long play IMHO as their monopolies are slowly but surely diminishing. We have more carriers, unlocked devices and finally some new players entering the Canadian market.

    The mindset should be customer retainment. A small initial financial penalty which earns customer loyalty will bring a far greater financial return due to repeat business. It is more costly to **** a customer off and lose them in almost all cases.
    Last edited by mdvision; 01-02-2015 at 11:50 PM.
    01-02-2015 11:30 PM
  10. anon(8316658)'s Avatar
    You describe a short play logic that makes quick dollar return the priority. Cell carrier companies need to take the long play IMHO as their monopolies are slowly but surely diminishing. We have more carriers, unlocked devices and finally some new players entering the Canadian market.

    The mindset should be customer retainment. A small initial financial penalty which earns customer loyalty will bring a far greater financial return due to repeat business. It is more costly to **** a customer off and lose them in almost all cases.
    yes.. maybe in an ideal world but not in this one :-)
    80% of users dont care about updates, they want to enjoy the basic functions like web browsing , skype etc. they dont have any informations about SW or FW updates so they dont bother with them and dont forget that the WP user base is very small and I think that the big amount of users dont care about smartphones, OS or the capacity of RAM.. they want a mobile phone for a low price but with all the app. they need in real life.

    But to be honest I dont know the real answer and you neither so this conversation is pure scifi.
    Shame on Bell and Verizon but we must accept the fact that they earn more Money with Android/Apple phones than with WP so any support for this platform is like throwing Money out of the window(s) :D
    mary beth hale likes this.
    01-03-2015 05:37 AM
  11. nerdysquared's Avatar
    Well I think going to the 830, with no early upgrade fee is the only hope there is of seeing WP 8.1.1, or any update, sad in a way.

    Well just contacted the Bell Escalation Team, and we'll see what they say.
    Last edited by nerdysquared; 01-04-2015 at 12:20 PM.
    01-03-2015 08:43 PM
  12. mdvision's Avatar
    Well I think going to the 830, with no early upgrade fee is the only hope there is of seeing WP 8.1.1, or any update, sad in a way.

    Well just contacted the Bell Escalation Team, and we'll see what they say.
    Curious how your inquiry with Bell resulted.

    After consideration I started the process of replacing my ATIV S with a Lumia 830 based on the Bell offer I previously posted. After being somewhat satisfied with their offer I now have a new problem with them. I can only update to the 830 if I buy the phone outright because they will not allow me to keep my grandfathered cell plan if I want the 830 subsidized on a new 2 year term. The qualified plans on a new 2 year commitment are much more expensive especially the included data allowances. Increasing the data allowance increases the monthly cell bill so much that the offered relief on the early upgrade fee is now moot.

    In addition....I used the trade in program feature on Bell's web site but was prompted to contact a Bell Mobility store for current trade in valuation. The ATIV S now has a trade in value of $0! This device was abandoned after 18 months, was originally valued at $700, and now valued at $0. Thanks Samsung and Bell for ruining what was initially a positive device experience.
    Last edited by mdvision; 01-07-2015 at 07:50 PM.
    01-07-2015 03:45 PM
  13. nerdysquared's Avatar
    Well not well after chatting with the what I thought was the right people complained about the lack of support, and the whole update thing. then emailed the escalation team, got a email back saying basically saying to call the 1800-what ever it is now, so start the process again get ref# from the person I spoke with and all that to show them I went through the process what it says to do, fired off an other email and got the same response. so now just waiting a day off and spend all day on the phone again. as far as plans this was a recent upgrade like with in the last 6 months, so they already get 50$ a month plus the data fee from me. so they can keep it if they want more from me. plus on site now the Ativ S only requires 35$ plan. since this is a new upgrade for me I feel even more ripped off the swines!, but will keep you posted
    01-07-2015 06:01 PM
  14. don braithwaite's Avatar
    Just curious if at any time any of them have told you outright that there will never be an update. Or are they just giving you this option because they don't know either.
    01-07-2015 07:28 PM
  15. mdvision's Avatar
    Just curious if at any time any of them have told you outright that there will never be an update. Or are they just giving you this option because they don't know either.
    Neither Samsung or Bell support declared outright there will never be an update. The tone of the conversations however definitely implied not to expect any and that no updates are currently planned. Seeing as the last system updates were aprox. 6 months ago and that FW and WP OS 8.1 for the Ativ S i8750 model variant (that has been sold outside of North America in far greater numbers) has only seen limited release in specific regions I think is telling.

    There has been no advice to continue to wait for this. If a FW update was in the validation process at this stage it would serve the carrier better to disclose this in order to placate customers. I think enough time now has passed since the updates of other WP devices that owners should reconcile the fact we can expect no further update support. Getting only 18 months of support on a premium device like the ATIV S T899M is not acceptable especially when those that have rec'd the updates on the other variant report excellent results.

    Lately I am having application updates and new application install error messages due to the need to have WP 8.1 installed. If there was a technical reason updates cannot be installed I might be a little bit more understanding. This phone is more than capable of running WP 8.1.1 if Samsung and or Bell would provide it.
    01-08-2015 12:40 PM
  16. don braithwaite's Avatar
    The only reason I asked was because typically at Bell and Rogers the customer service reps have no clue about what goes on behind the scenes with the technical support team.

    I have thought about calling to see if there was any info about the updates, but I suspect that I would never get a straight answer and that the CSR wouldn't even know who to talk to about it, or even want to pursue it. The easier solution for them is just to push out a new phone to the customer. In an ideal world the customer support team would get updates to their info about specific phones, because as you say it would be good for them to be able to satisfy their customers, but I really don't think that it works like that. Usually the left hand doesn't have a clue what is going on with the right hand.
    01-08-2015 03:14 PM
  17. mdvision's Avatar
    The only reason I asked was because typically at Bell and Rogers the customer service reps have no clue about what goes on behind the scenes with the technical support team.

    I have thought about calling to see if there was any info about the updates, but I suspect that I would never get a straight answer and that the CSR wouldn't even know who to talk to about it, or even want to pursue it. The easier solution for them is just to push out a new phone to the customer. In an ideal world the customer support team would get updates to their info about specific phones, because as you say it would be good for them to be able to satisfy their customers, but I really don't think that it works like that. Usually the left hand doesn't have a clue what is going on with the right hand.
    My inquiries have gotten past the level 1 CSR. I've dug in and conversed with higher level tech support. Level 1 CSR knowledge base is typically pretty limited and often script based.

    We desperately need to motivate the carriers by having more competition and choice. Until their monopolistic status is threatened Canadian telecommunications will remain substandard in tech, cost, and service / support. Why do we have the most expensive cell services in the world....because the current players control almost all frequencies and conspire to maintain minimal differentiation in their plans and rates.

    How is it we pay more for service than third world countries who have far less infrastructure and certainly less population density away from their primary cities? How is it some countries are able to service high population centers with amazing IPTV and low cost high bandwidth cell service? There may be some advantages in those markets due to geographic population density scale but they still need to deploy enough cell repeaters to maintain decent bandwidth QOS.....which they do. I've had full bar signal levels in quite close proximity to a cell tower and still see my LTE data speeds negligibly faster than HSPA. I normally think "the marketplace" sorts things out via competition. The CRTC has regulated the elimination of three year cell contracts. In Canada I now regretfully think government regulation is needed to end the current status quo.
    01-08-2015 04:47 PM
  18. anon(8316658)'s Avatar
    My inquiries have gotten past the level 1 CSR. I've dug in and conversed with higher level tech support. Level 1 CSR knowledge base is typically pretty limited and often script based.

    We desperately need to motivate the carriers by having more competition and choice. Until their monopolistic status is threatened Canadian telecommunications will remain substandard in tech, cost, and service / support. Why do we have the most expensive cell services in the world....because the current players control almost all frequencies and conspire to maintain minimal differentiation in their plans and rates.

    How is it we pay more for service than third world countries who have far less infrastructure and certainly less population density away from their primary cities? How is it some countries are able to service high population centers with amazing IPTV and low cost high bandwidth cell service? There may be some advantages in those markets due to geographic population density scale but they still need to deploy enough cell repeaters to maintain decent bandwidth QOS.....which they do. I've had full bar signal levels in quite close proximity to a cell tower and still see my LTE data speeds negligibly faster than HSPA. I normally think "the marketplace" sorts things out via competition. The CRTC has regulated the elimination of three year cell contracts. In Canada I now regretfully think government regulation is needed to end the current status quo.
    good luck!
    Iam from EU but if I would do the same thing like you then I would be permanently banned from all carrier stores across the country :D
    01-09-2015 07:37 AM
  19. mdvision's Avatar
    good luck!
    Iam from EU but if I would do the same thing like you then I would be permanently banned from all carrier stores across the country :D
    Not sure where you live in the EU but in Canada we are permitted consumer advocacy without penalty or discrimination. If no one speaks up standards and consumer rights would cease to exist and price fixing would be the norm. Glad I live here.... and contributing to keep it that way. :)

    18 month device support is not good enough. I work in IT where obsolesence is common..... but not after 18 months. No way I could tell a customer their vertical business application will not run on his 18 month old IT system.

    customer: My business application will not run on my system.
    me: I could fix this but I won't.
    customer: What can I do?
    me: Buy a new system.
    customer: But it is only 18 months old and I paid for the best tech then.
    me: That's your problem not mine.
    customer: But all it needs is a software update.
    me: True......but I've decided to make you replace your system....and raise your support fees.
    customer: Well what will you give me for my current system towards the upgrade?
    me: Nothing
    customer: But I am still paying for the current system.
    me:Your problem not mine.


    Big three wireless carriers all hike rate plans | canada.com
    Last edited by mdvision; 01-09-2015 at 12:57 PM.
    01-09-2015 12:03 PM
  20. nerdysquared's Avatar
    Curious how your inquiry with Bell resulted.

    After consideration I started the process of replacing my ATIV S with a Lumia 830 based on the Bell offer I previously posted. After being somewhat satisfied with their offer I now have a new problem with them. I can only update to the 830 if I buy the phone outright because they will not allow me to keep my grandfathered cell plan if I want the 830 subsidized on a new 2 year term. The qualified plans on a new 2 year commitment are much more expensive especially the included data allowances. Increasing the data allowance increases the monthly cell bill so much that the offered relief on the early upgrade fee is now moot.

    In addition....I used the trade in program feature on Bell's web site but was prompted to contact a Bell Mobility store for current trade in valuation. The ATIV S now has a trade in value of $0! This device was abandoned after 18 months, was originally valued at $700, and now valued at $0. Thanks Samsung and Bell for ruining what was initially a positive device experience.
    Ok, so finally got a chance to call in today and started to go through the hoops again, but to no avail spoke with the front line support again, waste of time, move to the sup. more wasted time, asked about the escalation team. Was told to fill the form out online (which I have done twice now) told the sup. about the response was to call the 1800 blah blah. and needles to say have to waste more time tomorrow because they don't know where to go from here.
    01-11-2015 08:46 AM
  21. mdvision's Avatar
    Ok, so finally got a chance to call in today and started to go through the hoops again, but to no avail spoke with the front line support again, waste of time, move to the sup. more wasted time, asked about the escalation team. Was told to fill the form out online (which I have done twice now) told the sup. about the response was to call the 1800 blah blah. and needles to say have to waste more time tomorrow because they don't know where to go from here.
    Good for you to do that. If more device owners were to take some time to do this it would be impossible for the carriers to not notice the discontent. As the old saying goes " the sqeaky wheel......" Just use the phone number and get a conversation going with an escalation team member. Filling in forms and sending emails is not effective IMO.

    To be fair this could also be the doing of Samsung not providing the FW to the carriers. Regardless... the carrier should have device support minimums the device mfgs. must meet in order to offer their phones. What a simple concept that would eliminate these kind of situations.
    nerdysquared likes this.
    01-11-2015 02:33 PM
  22. nerdysquared's Avatar
    Well only wasted 30mins today, however still no answer, and still not able to speak with the escalation team. don't know how mdvision was able to reach them but please share your secret, and how did the cancellation with no fee come up by the way.
    01-12-2015 02:50 PM
  23. mdvision's Avatar
    Well only wasted 30mins today, however still no answer, and still not able to speak with the escalation team. don't know how mdvision was able to reach them but please share your secret, and how did the cancellation with no fee come up by the way.
    Hey Nerdysquared...I had no issue speaking with an escalation team member two times using the info previously posted. Here is the phone number I used on both calls and then used the menu prompts I believe.

    Step 3 - Contact the Bell Escalation Team
    If after taking the preceding steps your concern is still not resolved, contact our Bell Escalation Team at 1-866-317-3382. We are committed to resolving your concern.


    The early upgrade fee waiver came up when I complained the device was abandoned, needed to be replaced but still had a residual value balance owing.
    01-12-2015 07:34 PM
  24. nerdysquared's Avatar
    Hey Nerdysquared...I had no issue speaking with an escalation team member two times using the info previously posted. Here is the phone number I used on both calls and then used the menu prompts I believe.

    Step 3 - Contact the Bell Escalation Team
    If after taking the preceding steps your concern is still not resolved, contact our Bell Escalation Team at 1-866-317-3382. We are committed to resolving your concern.


    The early upgrade fee waiver came up when I complained the device was abandoned, needed to be replaced but still had a residual value balance owing.
    Worked like a charm, gave them a call and they were willing to give me $200 towards a new upgrade, or a give me a CLEARANCE phone, after complaining about the lack of support and all that so I will ponder this offer, because the 200 does not give me a $0 residual balance on the Ativ S because this was a recent upgrade so, at least the complaints have been made so we'll see.
    mdvision likes this.
    01-14-2015 09:03 AM
  25. Mathieu_Desjard's Avatar
    Same here, I call them and then they offered me to get a new phone with really small cost ( I had more then a year left to contract). Now I am enjoying my Lumia 830 and will probably try to put Windows 10 on the samsung :)

    Thanks for the tips!

    Mathieu
    mdvision likes this.
    01-20-2015 07:35 AM
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