09-10-2014 06:18 PM
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  1. Bee Mon's Avatar
    My other theory about this thread is "making advertisment about the upcoming WP-app from the brave developer who rejected Apples Appstore"
    And why would we do that? You know we'll practically earn more by going to the App Store rather than in WP market right?
    Maybe you can read the review of the game that we're porting over and tell me why we shouldn't be going to the AppStore instead.
    Publicity? Majority of Windows Phone users don't even visit this site or even less will actually read the forums.
    If you think there's some of trickery being used here, I don't want to waste time to try to convince you otherwise.
    Crappy apps are crappy apps, no matter how you polish it. Nobody will buy or play them
    regardless of whatever free publicity you think we're getting. sheesh.
    09-03-2014 06:46 AM
  2. katakulli's Avatar
    So let's say you are a beginner developer and you started a project but not completed yet. It may take you another 3 months to create a product that is workable but not polished or 6-9 months to create a polished product but you cannot survive for more than 4 months because you're not earning anything within this period. You have confidence that some users may like your product and may still purchase it even though its not polished enough. It's a risk that you have to take but its under your control. Now Apple has taken that away from you. Even if you are going to starve 9 months to create what you think is a good enough product, Apple can still reject it at their whim and basically there's nothing you can do about it.
    And so what? Nobody is forcing you to release an unfinished app. You can testdrive all of your apps in many ways, the thing Apple wants from you is not to release (and make garbage) before you think it is unique and does something better than app x. That is the way this should work anyway. The appstore should consist of polished apps only, not of half-baked-apps. Every app developer, who wants to earn money from this, should know the difference between garbage app and not-garbage app. So, given your example with dressing up for a party, nobody would come naked and be upset not being letting in. You are a grown-up and should know how to dress like the average, you dont need exact dress codes. You are a developer and should know that your app is good enough for the appstore, you dont need exact guidlines.
    09-03-2014 06:54 AM
  3. Bee Mon's Avatar
    And so what? Nobody is forcing you to release an unfinished app. You can testdrive all of your apps in many ways, the thing Apple wants from you is not to release (and make garbage) before you think it is unique and does something better than app x. That is the way this should work anyway. The appstore should consist of polished apps only, not of half-baked-apps. Every app developer, who wants to earn money from this, should know the difference between garbage app and not-garbage app. So, given your example with dressing up for a party, nobody would come naked and be upset not being letting in. You are a grown-up and should know how to dress like the average, you dont need exact dress codes. You are a developer and should know that your app is good enough for the appstore, you dont need exact guidlines.
    How do you know you can't come naked to my party? Maybe I'll let you in so we can all laugh at you all night. You know it is totally up to me to decide right? Just like Apple can decide to do whatever they want. At least as a person, you can ask me first "Can I came naked? Can I come dressed averagely as an adult?". You can't ask Apple that so all you can do is depend on the guidelines where there is NONE given. If you cannot see any problem with that, I have no idea what else to say to you. Oh look, seems that people are starting to notice there's something wrong with the new policy changes and here we're beginning to think we're delusional.

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    09-03-2014 07:12 AM
  4. Shobin Drogan's Avatar
    Apple being the regular turds they always are, why am i not surprised.
    09-03-2014 07:16 AM
  5. anon5999636's Avatar
    How do you know you can't come naked to my party? Maybe I'll let you in so we can all laugh at you all night. You know it is totally up to me to decide right? Just like Apple can decide to do whatever they want. At least as a person, you can ask me first "Can I came naked? Can I come dressed averagely as an adult?". You can't ask Apple that so all you can do is depend on the guidelines where there is NONE given. If you cannot see any problem with that, I have no idea what else to say to you. Oh look, seems that people are starting to notice there's something wrong with the new policy changes and here we're beginning to think we're delusional.

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    Glad to see Apple do such a thing. They only do it because they have a store valued and can (to some extent) to choose who they want to be part of the store. I also see as arrogance, but they have the right to do that and we do not accept. BUT they make a little mistake and also risk losing many devs like you.
    09-03-2014 07:22 AM
  6. Bee Mon's Avatar
    I want to make it clear I do agree that garbage apps should removed from app stores but be specifically clear about it. I'm sure Apple can describe what they considered as garbage app if they wanted to. Like I have posted previously here, if they delete apps that have consistently bad reviews and complaints, I fully accept that. Either have clear definition on what you will accept or reject or let the users themselves decide. This policy change is totally draconian in nature. I would seriously worry for anyone of you that would enter into a lease, sale or deal with agreements like this. You'll be on the losing end.
    09-03-2014 07:37 AM
  7. Bee Mon's Avatar
    Hey if you could develop a time killer game so that we could play with another KNOWN friend using Windows phone it would be great
    We'll always design our games with multiplayer in mind because we like to play them as well. If it's not in the initial version, we'll add that in as an update later.
    09-03-2014 07:49 AM
  8. ShinraCorp's Avatar
    We collectively decided that the 1st platform for our games and apps would be iOS. Why not Android? Well we like to tell you its because of technical issues and the amount of software hacking and piracy on Android (which is true), but really let us be honest here; we bloody hate Google and its practices. Now please do not question our right to our own opinions in this thread. We are not using this thread to attempt to convert people to WP, if you love Android and Google, we wish you the best on your chosen platform.
    As a developer myself (newbie level but still counts) I can say you made the right decision not to program for Android. Why? Well consider this... you'll be spending more time debugging your Android app then actually developing. All because of fragmentation.

    To anyone who don't know what that means it's simple. Fragmentation (no not disk defragmentation) is when they're many pieces you try to fit together but in an extremely difficult way. The pieces here are android phones, they're huge varieties (1 GB, 2 GB, 512 MB, 4",5",6",7", Dual-Core, Quad-Core, Android 4.3, 3.2 , etc...) They're TOO MANY variables to consider when programming for android. Of course you could always program for one type of phone only (say Samsung Galaxy SX series) but then that leaves the rest out which isn't fun.

    Windows Phone you only have to worry about if it'll work on a Dual Core, 512 MB device or not. Thank God Microsoft listen to developers when they made the Universal App settings in Visual Studio...
    GrayW0lf and Laura Knotek like this.
    09-03-2014 08:03 AM
  9. Bee Mon's Avatar
    As a developer myself (newbie level but still counts) I can say you made the right decision not to program for Android. Why? Well consider this... you'll be spending more time debugging your Android app then actually developing. All because of fragmentation.

    To anyone who don't know what that means it's simple. Fragmentation (no not disk defragmentation) is when they're many pieces you try to fit together but in an extremely difficult way. The pieces here are android phones, they're huge varieties (1 GB, 2 GB, 512 MB, 4",5",6",7", Dual-Core, Quad-Core, Android 4.3, 3.2 , etc...) They're TOO MANY variables to consider when programming for android. Of course you could always program for one type of phone only (say Samsung Galaxy SX series) but then that leaves the rest out which isn't fun.

    Windows Phone you only have to worry about if it'll work on a Dual Core, 512 MB device or not. Thank God Microsoft listen to developers when they made the Universal App settings in Visual Studio...
    We actually had such a discussion about Android and we decided that if we're going that path, we will develop to the highest denominator first and then scale down to lower-end devices, if we can't get it working at a certain level, we'll just cut it off at that point. However on Windows Phone, funnily its actually the opposite around, we find it more advantages to develop to the lowest denominator first and then scale up to higher-end devices.
    GrayW0lf likes this.
    09-03-2014 08:43 AM
  10. jjmurphy's Avatar
    Hey Bee Mon, don't feel the need to defend yourself. You're honestly getting trolled by a user or two here. Just get your apps out and make them the best you can.
    09-03-2014 08:57 AM
  11. DennisvdG's Avatar
    This^
    09-03-2014 09:14 AM
  12. Rodrigo Pereira Teixeira's Avatar
    I am quite aware that it takes "a" (lol) hard work to develop apps and I have indeed put in "many" hard works coding (not apps, mainly network engineering).
    Really? Mess around with the guy because his english is not that good?

    Gosh.
    09-03-2014 09:30 AM
  13. Ashish Gupta888's Avatar
    I am quite aware that it takes "a" (lol) hard work to develop apps and I have indeed put in "many" hard works coding (not apps, mainly network engineering).

    Regardless. Choosing the platform which has a pathetic 2.5% market share (and declining) whose most popular phone is the dirt-cheap 520 is not a good idea for any developer, especially those that are starting out. Even more foolish if you have a good product and all you need is to port it... you do have a quality app, you do have the skills needed to develop and maintain it. And now, due to some childish tantrum at Apple's terms (which are unlikely to affect you even), you choose WP. And why not Android? Because you 'hate' (it is your opinion and I respect your right to it, however you must also respect my right to call your opinion stupid and shortsighted.
    Another Troller Spotted :-D
    Let developer decide what he needs to do and he knows what suits him the best out of those ecosystem.
    P.S:
    Setting up some routers and switches is easy but not developing an app, buddy. #no pun Intended
    09-03-2014 09:39 AM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    Nice story. Let us know when you go bankrupt. Childish decisions influenced by personal opinions do not make for good business. If you ever find yourself using the words 'love' or 'hate' in a business context, please quit as you are a fool and will never be successful.
    I suppose google's reasons for not supporting WP and going out of their way to block Microsoft's youtube app are based on logic and sound reasoning, right? And actually developing for a plaform you care about could mean extra TLC being taken with the app, unlike apps like instatram and netflix who seem to have forgotten they have an app on WP.....

    OP, nice move. Good luck and hope you have lots of success.
    Ashish Gupta888 likes this.
    09-03-2014 10:39 AM
  15. berty6294's Avatar
    Good for you Bee Mon! I'll be looking for you guys! As scary of a choice that is (if I were you I would not have done it your way) I definitely applaud you for doing what you feel is morally right
    09-03-2014 11:02 AM
  16. Nerdy Woman's Avatar
    Apple has always had a masters-of-the-universe attitude. From AppleTalk to Facetime to hardware (eg, headphone jacks are configured differently), they choose to go their own way, sucking users into their ecosystem. As Bee Mon mentioned, even the programming language is unique to their OS.

    The language in this agreement is obviously intended to be casual, but it reminds me of communique with my clients after I've been up for 36 hours straight and am a bit punch drunk -- I am sometimes less than courteous. It definitely is cliquish, elitist, and non-professional.

    A dev trying to break into the A-store -- even if they've got a great track record in other marketplaces and category-killer apps -- would have to deal with Apple's capricious selection process. Potentially, the app may be rejected simply because it might steal market share from an Apple-preferred dev.

    While WP's market share is small, recent reports (there's an article here on WPC about this) show that Apple only has 11.x% of the global market. Bee Mon and company have a better chance of being noticed in the smaller WP store and, with Microsoft's plans to make apps work on all Windows devices, a good opportunity to sell in the PC and tablet store as well.
    09-03-2014 11:05 AM
  17. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Damn... those two points are just insulting, like you said every app developer was a newbie once upon a time and likewise all newborn must learn to walk before they can run.

    If you need a beta tester - I'm in in :).
    09-03-2014 11:23 AM
  18. Silviu Bogusevschi's Avatar
    Wish much luck in supporting this awesome platform ;)

    Regarding Apple's policy. Meh..
    09-03-2014 11:26 AM
  19. Paul May's Avatar
    Wish you guys luck. The WP community needs good developers who care about the apps they make and who they make them for.
    Nerdy Woman likes this.
    09-03-2014 11:55 AM
  20. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    I think it's the tone and language used in the clauses that as affected Bee's decision here more than the actual content. In using those words, they're promoting an "us and them" mentality that sides with the cool cats of Apple and established developers.

    While I entirely support the use of plain English, this kind of language is for me unacceptable in this kind of agreement document. If I was faced with this, I'd be disinclined to agree to the terms as well.
    Exactly. It is completely unprofessional to write terms and conditions like that. Were I a share holder I would be most displeased.
    Nerdy Woman likes this.
    09-03-2014 12:54 PM
  21. 1101x10's Avatar
    Windows Phone store is open for anything. Want a Hello World app? Here you go
    Hello World App | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)
    09-03-2014 02:27 PM
  22. berty6294's Avatar
    Windows Phone store is open for anything. Want a Hello World app? Here you go
    Hello World App | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)
    Best Hello World app I have ever used! Well designed and personal. Thank you! Will suggest to all friends looking for a Hello World app!
    09-03-2014 02:31 PM
  23. Nerdy Woman's Avatar
    Best Hello World app I have ever used! Well designed and personal. Thank you! Will suggest to all friends looking for a Hello World app!
    I like it! I think it's a great encouragement for new devs. And who knows? Soon we may be referring to Aman Mehara by first name only, as we do with Rudy.
    09-03-2014 02:44 PM
  24. Bee Mon's Avatar
    It is not the purpose of our topic here to enable or encourage hate on Apple. If you are not a indie developer or someone who wishes to enter this field, these changes won't actually affect you. We have left it behind us already so we hope you all can leave further angry Apple posts out of this discussion. It is better to focus your energy to do more positive things to help out the platform that you love. Please be kind to beginner developers, they have to start somewhere, even Rudy Hyun. Their first few apps would definitely suck and they know that. I'm not talking about garbage apps where programmers are deliberately lazy and put trash on a store to earn a few bucks sometimes by misleading the user. We're talking about potentially talented people who never given a chance to do something that they are enthusiastic about. They may have good ideas just poor execution at the start. You don't have to buy their apps but at least try them out. Instead of slamming them down, give them your genuine critique. Offer encouragement if you think their idea is good and tell them where you think they can improve. If you chase them away, you could lose someone that could have potentially written a killer app for your platform.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    09-03-2014 03:04 PM
  25. Bee Mon's Avatar
    Windows Phone store is open for anything. Want a Hello World app? Here you go
    Hello World App | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)
    Well that's just plain lazy. Tell him that you know he can do better and he should do better.
    09-03-2014 03:06 PM
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