05-28-2017 03:55 PM
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  1. formalcomparison's Avatar
    Microsoft is one of the Computer world's point of reference along with Apple. The new surface laptop with Windows 10 s is a magnificent laptop but , in my opinion, it goes against the common people's idea of Windows. Some people , when they need to buy a new computer , choose the MacBook not because they think it is the best but due to his popularity, without knowing that there are some programs which don't run on a Mac or other which run only using other applications. Whereas Windows allows you to use or download almost everything you want or you need but initially is a little more complicate to use. Windows 10 s is a way to make this laptop easier to use , safer and also to make the windows store better. In my opinion, it is a great option for those who find windows more complicate than apple or less safe, because they can remain with windows using it , but it shouldn't have a surface laptop dedicated to it. It is too similar to Apple but with a less competitive store and less popularity and that is because so many people will continue to choose a MacBook. In my opinion , Windows should continue to create new idea with the surface line keeping and developing his more permissive OS and leaves the 10 S version only as an alternative. what do you think?
    05-20-2017 09:13 AM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    How do you build a store up without devices and users using them?

    That's chicken and egg. You gotta have the devices and users, to build the apps.

    I've heard about three MacBook users pondering surface products in the last week. I think mac fans give the impression of a rabidly loyal userbase, but a lot of mac users just use them because they are well designed devices.

    I don't think all the MacBook users will automatically switch over but between those, and surface fans who wanted a laptop, I think this will sell well. Its a beautiful design after all.

    If you want pro on it, its two clicks in. Free for the rest of the year, free for students eternally, and 49 bucks which is a small amount next to a complete license or the laptop.

    I think the surface laptop should demo windows s' chromebook like speed and simplicity, lack of pc rot, security, auto updates etc well. It's almost a proof of concept of the UWP platform really, showcasing its benefits over win32.

    I do think MSFT is addressing a branding issue with the surface range. They made some blunders in the past (RT, early iterations of windows phone, windows vista, 8). They are getting that "quality" image back with recent moves. Windows 10 is a great OS, the surface line has great products etc. Everything they do right now is kinda "is this good enough? If not, scrap it".

    Surface use is high amongst young tech adopters, as are other windows hybrids. Which is not what many people assume - the same people that love their iphones, teenagers and college students - often love their surfaces and their yogabooks. I've seen it, my mates kids, love iPhone, love their yoga books. Ultimately they just like good quality tech although there is a bit of "new new" device lust there, msft is not without that quality. Arguably there is more innovation coming from MSFT these days that apple, or google.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-20-2017 at 10:29 AM.
    05-20-2017 09:59 AM
  3. Keeptechcoolandsimple's Avatar
    To give credit where credit is due, Apple has been very successful in creating an image amongst the masses of "Apple = cool". Steve Jobs was a masterful marketer in that regard.
    ttsoldier and matt7709 like this.
    05-20-2017 11:29 AM
  4. formalcomparison's Avatar
    Of course you're right , but so it shouldn't run on the top laptop. The surface pro starts from over $1000 so not many students could afford it at that price. Moreover , some of them will change to the pro version because it's more permissive and , unless you're a fan , you will always think about buying a Mac for a laptop that works mostly through the store, at that price. Windows 10 s in my option should run also in cheaper devices ( and also with some Lenovo , asus , dell , hp ext) to help to build up the store so that you can purchase a good laptop ,which is safe and works well , at a good price and work with the apps it offers. In a such expensive devices , I would like to have more choices

    The design of the surface pro is amazing and we students loves innovation but still lots of people look for what is cool and trending. I have a lumia 950 and I really enjoy it but for some people not to have some apps is a too serious problem and they don't even look at many other features.

    Microsoft is creating great quality products but , unfortunately , is not always about quality ( even if people look often for it ) but also what is "cool right now"
    ajcletus500 likes this.
    05-21-2017 06:45 AM
  5. formalcomparison's Avatar
    Yeah , some devices by Apple are really good but for others is just the name that makes them great ( the iPad is mostly a hightech-toy and many people still consider it like a computer-tablet )
    05-21-2017 06:51 AM
  6. Timbre70's Avatar
    I wish MS could build some surface devices using polycarbonate materials like Lumia devices. But internal parts are high quality and reliable.
    Tom Snyder and Chintan Gohel like this.
    05-21-2017 07:59 AM
  7. Ezhik's Avatar
    MS is definitely chasing the market that Apple was saved by, and then ignored - the prosumer, the artistic types, etc.

    It's not an exact comparison simply due to how the world has changed.
    05-21-2017 05:54 PM
  8. cocopops's Avatar
    I think the Surface brand is a great move from Microsoft. It is actually a real competitor in all aspects to what Apple offers and has now garnered the interest of those who were apple diehard fans. Microsoft has done a stellar job setting apart the surface range through clear positioning and marketing of all its surface products, with true innovation behind them. The innovation is what grabs the attention, and the rest of the package seals the deal so to speak. I dont think up until now Apple have had any real competition in the super premium space.
    05-22-2017 03:36 AM
  9. Timbre70's Avatar
    Lets see how stable the os is.
    05-22-2017 04:05 AM
  10. Bskill's Avatar
    It really comes down to having "all" the necessary apps available in Store. That needs to happen quickly!
    05-22-2017 05:59 AM
  11. cocopops's Avatar
    That would be dependent on the number of devices that run W10 S - nobody will develop if nobody is using it..
    05-22-2017 06:57 AM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    It really comes down to having "all" the necessary apps available in Store. That needs to happen quickly!
    On phones most people use 4-6 apps on the regular. Won't be much more on a PC for the average joe. What "all the necessary apps" are, will depend on the person. For someone doing office, email, Netflix, skype etc like a chromebook is often used- its there already.
    05-22-2017 07:16 AM
  13. anon(10237065)'s Avatar
    Well, despite it is supposed to be about Chromebooks, in my opinion Microsoft simply sees that Apple is moving away from MacBook Air to the more expensive MacBooks. And for MS that's an incredible opportunity and of course they're trying to grab it. If you want a premium laptop, you won't be able to go for a cheap MacBook Air, only for more expensive MacBooks... or there's is this nice Surface Laptop which looks very cool as well, with this easy-to-use and safe Windows 10 S and it costs like MacBook Air. Simple. And effective.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-22-2017 07:20 AM
  14. JohnnyRedLight's Avatar
    On phones most people use 4-6 apps on the regular. Won't be much more on a PC for the average joe. What "all the necessary apps" are, will depend on the person. For someone doing office, email, Netflix, skype etc like a chromebook is often used- its there already.
    I agree. I always "think" I need XY and Z apps then only use them for 5 minutes and delete them. And as I get older and loose interest in "tinkering" with my computer, I use even less programs (Hardware monitor, GPUz, benchmarks, retro-emulators and what-not).
    05-22-2017 07:21 AM
  15. Lych's Avatar
    we still lack the phone though. We made the laptop, we have the desktop and we arguably have the tablet as well. We still need to nail the phone.
    05-22-2017 07:37 AM
  16. Lych's Avatar
    I wish MS could build some surface devices using polycarbonate materials like Lumia devices. But internal parts are high quality and reliable.
    why? I mean sure, we could have polycarbonate laptops but I'd argue that those wouldn't be as durable. What works for phone doesn't necessarily work for a laptop. Different form factors and different use-cases. Surface devices have always been premium products. Polycarbonate wouldn't really fly in that segment. Look how Apple ended up with their polycarbonate phones.... and those didn't feel cheap either.
    05-22-2017 07:39 AM
  17. lanakaryatna's Avatar
    Microsoft is innovative, apple not
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-22-2017 08:44 AM
  18. formalcomparison's Avatar
    Well, despite it is supposed to be about Chromebooks, in my opinion Microsoft simply sees that Apple is moving away from MacBook Air to the more expensive MacBooks. And for MS that's an incredible opportunity and of course they're trying to grab it. If you want a premium laptop, you won't be able to go for a cheap MacBook Air, only for more expensive MacBooks... or there's is this nice Surface Laptop which looks very cool as well, with this easy-to-use and safe Windows 10 S and it costs like MacBook Air. Simple. And effective.
    I don't think is so simple unfortunately. The surface laptop is better then a Macbook air and costs about the same (for intel core i5 , 8GB RAM , 256 GB the surface 1499 while the Mac air 1400, but the surface is more powerful ). The macbook pro starts from 1499 while the surface from 1100 and the surface's spec are better. The problem , in my opinion , is that with a price like that people want more choice in the store and so the surface laptop will have some problems in surpassing the Apple devices with his 10 S version. Many will switch to the pro version and this will not help the store to grow. Chromebooks have really competitive prices but if windows would enlarge the 10 S version to cheaper devices it will definitely convince some people to buy it and the store will get a boost. Moreover, we always must consider the "i buy it because is cool " mood.
    05-22-2017 09:46 AM
  19. kaktus1389's Avatar
    Well of course Microsoft's ultimate goal is to get the Apple users aboard since they represent population that can afford and wants premium devices like the Surface line and of course Apple devices. Apple users (as it was already mentioned in this thread) care more or less mainly about design and portability. I'd say they a lot of them didn't accept the "innovative" Mac touch bar very well and I also think many of them disliked Apple ditching the headphone jack on the iPhone. MS got the right timing, got the design right, pretty much got everything right except (in opinion of some) ports and RAM configuration.


    I think we are going to see quite some people ditching their MacBook Airs and purchasing the Surface Laptop. If MS had only took the chance with Apple's removal of headphone jack and making a right phone device with great design at that time, maybe we would see some iPhone users come over too.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    05-22-2017 10:37 AM
  20. Jaredallister's Avatar
    I don't think is so simple, unfortunately. The surface laptop is better than a Macbook air and costs about the same (for intel core i5, 8GB RAM, 256 GB the surface 1499 while the Mac air 1400, but the surface is more powerful ). The MacBook pro starts from 1499 while the surface from 1100 and the surface's spec are better. The problem, in my opinion, is that with a price like that people want more choice in the store and so the surface laptop will have some problems in surpassing the Apple devices with his 10 S version. Many will switch to the pro version and this will not help the store to grow. Chromebooks have really competitive prices but if windows would enlarge the 10 S version to cheaper devices it will definitely convince some people to buy it and the store will get a boost. Moreover, we always must consider the "i buy it because is cool " mood.
    A quick correction, in the US the Macbook Air with an i5, 8GB RAM, and 256GB is $1199. Now the Surface does have a better screen and newer processor, but the Macbook Air is $100 cheaper. Now if you're talking about the Macbook? For an M3 Processor, 8GB of RAM, and 256GB is $1299. But the Surface has a slightly larger screen and an I5 instead of a Core M. Now the MacBook Pro starts at $1299 and the 2016 Models start at $1499.
    05-22-2017 10:41 AM
  21. Jaredallister's Avatar
    Well of course Microsoft's ultimate goal is to get the Apple users aboard since they represent population that can afford and wants premium devices like the Surface line and of course Apple devices. Apple users (as it was already mentioned in this thread) care more or less mainly about design and portability. I'd say they a lot of them didn't accept the "innovative" Mac touch bar very well and I also think many of them disliked Apple ditching the headphone jack on the iPhone. MS got the right timing, got the design right, pretty much got everything right except (in opinion of some) ports and RAM configuration.


    I think we are going to see quite some people ditching their MacBook Airs and purchasing the Surface Laptop. If MS had only took the chance with Apple's removal of headphone jack and making a right phone device with great design at that time, maybe we would see some iPhone users come over too.
    It's a slight mischaracterization to say a lot of Apple users didn't accept the changes in Apples newest products as Apple reported record sales of both Mac and iPhone led by both the iPhone 7 Plus and the new Macbook Pros sales. It is true that a vocal few in the tech media and youtube had some issues with them, but in general, the majority of Apple's users were happy and bought them in droves. So while Microsoft will see some switchers, Apple customer are incredibly loyal and are extremely unlikely to switch in any meaningful numbers.
    05-22-2017 10:53 AM
  22. kaktus1389's Avatar
    It's a slight mischaracterization to say a lot of Apple users didn't accept the changes in Apples newest products as Apple reported record sales of both Mac and iPhone led by both the iPhone 7 Plus and the new Macbook Pros sales. It is true that a vocal few in the tech media and youtube had some issues with them, but in general, the majority of Apple's users were happy and bought them in droves. So while Microsoft will see some switchers, Apple customer are incredibly loyal and are extremely unlikely to switch in any meaningful numbers.
    It's true that the majority of Apple consumers are loyal, but I know Apple users who were pissed off because the headphone jack from real life and I know people who went to wait in the line the very first day iPhone 7 was available.
    05-22-2017 12:08 PM
  23. formalcomparison's Avatar
    A quick correction, in the US the Macbook Air with an i5, 8GB RAM, and 256GB is $1199. Now the Surface does have a better screen and newer processor, but the Macbook Air is $100 cheaper. Now if you're talking about the Macbook? For an M3 Processor, 8GB of RAM, and 256GB is $1299. But the Surface has a slightly larger screen and an I5 instead of a Core M. Now the MacBook Pro starts at $1299 and the 2016 Models start at $1499.
    Thanks for the correction!

    However , I think Microsoft shouldn't put the future of such a good alternative like Windows 10 S entirely on the surface laptop
    05-22-2017 05:08 PM
  24. SpaciousZebra's Avatar
    I think Microsoft has enough money to give this a shot. If it doesn't work, it stings, but they learn and adapt in the future.
    05-22-2017 09:41 PM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    It's a slight mischaracterization to say a lot of Apple users didn't accept the changes in Apples newest products as Apple reported record sales of both Mac and iPhone led by both the iPhone 7 Plus and the new Macbook Pros sales. It is true that a vocal few in the tech media and youtube had some issues with them, but in general, the majority of Apple's users were happy and bought them in droves. So while Microsoft will see some switchers, Apple customer are incredibly loyal and are extremely unlikely to switch in any meaningful numbers.
    It's a mistake to catergorize sales figures or market share as being identical to total or past userbase. People do this often. Both notebooks and smartphones have experienced growth - we don't know what proportion of existing users were happy with those changes, and what proportion of new users brought the devices. We don't know if those that did buy it, were happy with their purchase either.

    In general though you are right, it didn't effect sales.

    I often hear about people who buy Samsung, apple, Microsoft, and mix them all together, and I would love to see some studies on apple brand loyalty, because I have the feeling that brand loyalty might not be as cut and dry as it often appears due to apple missionaries.
    05-22-2017 10:54 PM
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