An observation and question from a WP8 newbie and devotee

[mihnat]

My dad taught me to watch out for the "underdog," because oftentimes they produce the most amazing results. iOS and Android are clearly in the lead and the complacency in both OSs is showing with incremental advances and a few cool (but unnecessary) items with each new OS or dessert flavor. WP8 is different. Nokia especially was a BIG underdog several years after the 3130 craze died off, was forced to make and now does makes stellar phones, gives away great photo, mapping/navigation and countless other apps, and from Nokia World 13 still seems to be on fire. I wonder though with the buyout whether the still underdog MS/WP will behave like Nokia or will rest on the laurels of one good OS (remember XP?) and stand by idly while the others pull farther ahead? Do you think Elop and any crew coming from Nokia bought into and learned enough of that incredible underdog philosophy to propagate it through to the new MS?

 

[Usman Mubashir]

now here is a perfect example of how under dogs rose to the climax:
I live in Pakistan, and i lived in a place where it was hard to find someone with interest in technology like these. I supported Android when it came out. Nokia was everywhere and nobody knew that Google was much more than just a search engine. Today, If anyone has a Nokia here, he is seen as old fashioned one. Not Me
Today, when I show off a Lumia, most people are Like hey its Nokia, its dying. When I tell them its Windows Phone, they say it too is dying. But same is the case when I told them about Android, they said Google cannot compete with Nokia
I believe that it is up to guys like us (who spread android) to tell people that there is new storm coming! The King has awaken and is not going down without a fight. Just like Android survived by adding functionality slowly but steadily Windows Phone will get momentum. I got a dozen guys to switch to Lumia and they all bought them because the Android they wanted was a little expensive (except for one who bought a 720 most rest got 520) Then they were like "I'm gonna but an Android or iOS as soon as possible. Now they say there are more built in features in WP than android provides (in manner of dialogue) This thing has got into their minds and they don't like getting an app for something which should be an OS feature. They are now loyal to Windows Phone

Android craze will die off if someone like me is determined enough to give WP a fair try. I saw at once that Android simply cannot be compared with what WP has to offer. My greatest loyalty to the system is based on the fact that in future (near or far depends on updates) there is such a huge number of things and feature that WP can provide which Android simply cannot. The best among these is the integration to the ecosystem. I have to install a ton of apps on both mobile and desktop to get into Google's ecosystem but in Windows, it is the default settings. I do not have to fiddle the settings. A common WP user is using them all whereas Android common user has little idea of what android can do.
IMO with the buyout, we shall only see WP getting better and not the other way round. MS released Windows 8 with metro because it realized that if it stays on with windows 7 it will be far easier for others to flood market with a revolutionary OS. My bet: Windows 8 was made to make it just a little harder for others to compete while MS takes a long time developing Windows 9 ( developing since before release of Windows 8)
Finally, I want to clarify why I kept pointing to changes in desktop OS affecting the WP market. Its because both these OSs are getting closer. Success of one will depend on the success of the other. The future is not Google, Apple may stick along a little longer, but the future is certainly Microsoft.

 

[mihnat]

now here is a perfect example of how under dogs rose to the climax:
I live in Pakistan, and i lived in a place where it was hard to find someone with interest in technology like these. ...

IMO with the buyout, we shall only see WP getting better and not the other way round.

Thanks so much for the comment and for your perspective from Pakistan - this is a world market and it seems that Nokia and MS are catering to amazing parts that world the "big boys" may have not thought were worth their time. Viva WP!

 

[INDIAN720]

now here is a perfect example of how under dogs rose to the climax:
I live in Pakistan, and i lived in a place where it was hard to find someone with interest in technology like these. I supported Android when it came out. Nokia was everywhere and nobody knew that Google was much more than just a search engine. Today, If anyone has a Nokia here, he is seen as old fashioned one. Not Me
Today, when I show off a Lumia, most people are Like hey its Nokia, its dying. When I tell them its Windows Phone, they say it too is dying. But same is the case when I told them about Android, they said Google cannot compete with Nokia
I believe that it is up to guys like us (who spread android) to tell people that there is new storm coming! The King has awaken and is not going down without a fight. Just like Android survived by adding functionality slowly but steadily Windows Phone will get momentum. I got a dozen guys to switch to Lumia and they all bought them because the Android they wanted was a little expensive (except for one who bought a 720 most rest got 520) Then they were like "I'm gonna but an Android or iOS as soon as possible. Now they say there are more built in features in WP than android provides (in manner of dialogue) This thing has got into their minds and they don't like getting an app for something which should be an OS feature. They are now loyal to Windows Phone

Android craze will die off if someone like me is determined enough to give WP a fair try. I saw at once that Android simply cannot be compared with what WP has to offer. My greatest loyalty to the system is based on the fact that in future (near or far depends on updates) there is such a huge number of things and feature that WP can provide which Android simply cannot. The best among these is the integration to the ecosystem. I have to install a ton of apps on both mobile and desktop to get into Google's ecosystem but in Windows, it is the default settings. I do not have to fiddle the settings. A common WP user is using them all whereas Android common user has little idea of what android can do.
IMO with the buyout, we shall only see WP getting better and not the other way round. MS released Windows 8 with metro because it realized that if it stays on with windows 7 it will be far easier for others to flood market with a revolutionary OS. My bet: Windows 8 was made to make it just a little harder for others to compete while MS takes a long time developing Windows 9 ( developing since before release of Windows 8)
Finally, I want to clarify why I kept pointing to changes in desktop OS affecting the WP market. Its because both these OSs are getting closer. Success of one will depend on the success of the other. The future is not Google, Apple may stick along a little longer, but the future is certainly Microsoft.

You truly are a nokia & WP loyalist bro .. keep up the good work

 

[ag1986]

Android craze will die off if someone like me is determined enough to give WP a fair try. I saw at once that Android simply cannot be compared with what WP has to offer. My greatest loyalty to the system is based on the fact that in future (near or far depends on updates) there is such a huge number of things and feature that WP can provide which Android simply cannot. The best among these is the integration to the ecosystem. I have to install a ton of apps on both mobile and desktop to get into Google's ecosystem but in Windows, it is the default settings. I do not have to fiddle the settings. A common WP user is using them all whereas Android common user has little idea of what android can do.

Um, what? In terms of pure functionality (i.e. what the phone can and cannot do without regard to how it is done), Android is parsecs ahead of WP. If the built-in apps cannot do it, there is, more often than not, an app that can. I believe the only thing my L920 can do that my N4 cannot, is offline nav. And that can be fixed with the OSM app (which btw has much better maps for Pakistan than WP does). Your assertion that WP can provide/Android cannot is invalid, because Android does not necessarily need to provide a certain function if there are apps to do it. Moreover, there are many things that Android can do that WP never will be able to because of it's nature (e.g. true background tasks, the ability to attach arbitrary files to emails). WP's USP, Live Tiles, are as crippled as they are pretty. They are not Live Tiles, more like Dead-but-wake-up-every-30-second tiles. That plus the fact that they are not interactive, is what leads me to conclude that Android's widgets are superior.

Also, there is an app for all Google services on almost all Android devices - what are these tons of apps exactly? And for the desktop a browser is enough - even IE

 

[brayvefart]

Um, what? In terms of pure functionality (i.e. what the phone can and cannot do without regard to how it is done), Android is parsecs ahead of WP. If the built-in apps cannot do it, there is, more often than not, an app that can. I believe the only thing my L920 can do that my N4 cannot, is offline nav. And that can be fixed with the OSM app (which btw has much better maps for Pakistan than WP does). Your assertion that WP can provide/Android cannot is invalid, because Android does not necessarily need to provide a certain function if there are apps to do it. Moreover, there are many things that Android can do that WP never will be able to because of it's nature (e.g. true background tasks, the ability to attach arbitrary files to emails). WP's USP, Live Tiles, are as crippled as they are pretty. They are not Live Tiles, more like Dead-but-wake-up-every-30-second tiles. That plus the fact that they are not interactive, is what leads me to conclude that Android's widgets are superior.

Also, there is an app for all Google services on almost all Android devices - what are these tons of apps exactly? And for the desktop a browser is enough - even IE

True background tasks & the ability to attach arbitrary files to emails...?
WP8 can do it all now..after the GDR3 update....and true multitasking isn't available in any OS except the dead Meego which is now the Sailfish OS in Jolla..Android and multitasking?..haha..not in this lifetime because the kernel is so poorly modified that it is not only taking down the name of Linux but also making people switch to other OS's..and Android being a Google product ,er scroogle product,it already has earned the name of copying things from here and there..only if you are aware!

 

[ag1986]

True background tasks & the ability to attach arbitrary files to emails...?
WP8 can do it all now..after the GDR3 update....and true multitasking isn't available in any OS except the dead Meego which is now the Sailfish OS in Jolla..Android and multitasking?..haha..not in this lifetime because the kernel is so poorly modified that it is not only taking down the name of Linux but also making people switch to other OS's..and Android being a Google product ,er scroogle product,it already has earned the name of copying things from here and there..only if you are aware!

Hi BraveFart,

Please try this: Send yourself an email with a RAR/Zip file attached. Open it on your WP. Try to save it to the phone, then send that file attached to an email. Then we'll talk.

 

[LenPats_94]

Ooooooo.... Way to go, winning the battle of OS's on terms of sending a RAR/ZIP file via email. You wanna talk? Really? And you say if there's something in particular your phone can't do, there's an app that can do it? Dude, WP doesn't need 3rd party apps to do things, MS just releases its feature availablility in a FW update. Clearly, emailing is your USP. I own a Nokia Lumia 920, after owning 2 other WP's. I had the choice of an S4 this time, but I didn't, know why? My OS FW (WP8) was not infected by a friggin Virus... SO I suggest you shush!

 

[ag1986]

What MS will and will not release in the future is not something anyone can discuss with authority - c.f. Other Storage bug, which is still extant. Many things are promised and predicted, but never seen. Feature Suggestions: Top (38340 ideas) – Feature Suggestions for Windows Phone is a good place to start educating yourself.

Anyway. My point was specifically about WP8's inability to attach arbitrary files to emails. The previous poster said it was possible after GDR3, I am now pointing out that it is actually not possible.

Now, point out one thing WP can do that is not possible on Android/iOS. Thanks.

 

[a5cent]

Now, point out one thing WP can do that is not possible on Android/iOS. Thanks.

Run smoothly on very low end devices?

Access a 100% malware free ecosystem (admittedly not guaranteed to stay that way)?

Guarantee that neither OEMs nor carriers will modify the OS (simply not possible on WP)?

Guarantee that carrier installed bloatware is ALWAYS 100% removable, without having to rely on custom ROMs?

Provide guidelines and technical infrastructure, that enforce a bit of design consistency between apps, giving the entire ecosystem a more cohesive feel?

Implying that Android has WP beat in every possible metric is making you look silly again ag1986.

I admit these are (mostly) somewhat abstract concepts, rather than specific feature capabilities, but their implications are far more profound than any single specific feature.

 

[ag1986]

Run smoothly on very low end devices?

Access a 100% malware free ecosystem (admittedly not guaranteed to stay that way)?

Guarantee that neither OEMs nor carriers will modify the OS (simply not possible on WP)?

Guarantee that carrier installed bloatware is ALWAYS 100% removable, without having to rely on custom ROMs?

Provide guidelines and technical infrastructure, that enforce a bit of design consistency between apps, giving the entire ecosystem a more cohesive feel?

Implying that Android has WP beat in every possible metric is making you look silly again ag1986.

I admit these are (mostly) somewhat abstract concepts, rather than specific feature capabilities, but their implications are far more profound than any single specific feature.

I am looking for concrete and specific functionality. As an example, the most basic Android handset is capable of attaching a document while replying to an email. WP8 can do this only by sharing from the Office Hub, which anyway just puts in a Skydrive link and creates a completely new thread to boot.

I will give you all of the things that you pointed out and concede that WP has these things and Android does not. However, to my mind these are 'nice to have' and not essential. For me, form always follows function and WP's function is crippled while it's form is serviceable.

edit: Not to nitpick, but I asked "What can WP do?". Your answers are concerned with what WP is, rather than what it does.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I am looking for concrete and specific functionality. As an example, the most basic Android handset is capable of attaching a document while replying to an email. WP8 can do this only by sharing from the Office Hub, which anyway just puts in a Skydrive link and creates a completely new thread to boot.

I will give you all of the things that you pointed out and concede that WP has these things and Android does not. However, to my mind these are 'nice to have' and not essential. For me, form always follows function and WP's function is crippled while it's form is serviceable.

edit: Not to nitpick, but I asked "What can WP do?". Your answers are concerned with what WP is, rather than what it does.

As much I agree with you in regards to the document attachment, I'd rather a platform get itself together first in format then worry about the little things like that later. Yes it's a poor implementation. What I found interesting is that iPhone doesn't do it either. They use a similar system as WP.

I think one of the main issues that WP has run into is that people expected to be a 'work horse' phone and it isn't. It's a consumer device. Like the iPhone.

However, I see this changing in WP8.1. Which is where we'll hopefully see the real WP.

 

[a5cent]

I will give you all of the things that you pointed out and concede that WP has these things and Android does not. However, to my mind these are 'nice to have' and not essential. For me, form always follows function and WP's function is crippled while it's form is serviceable.

edit: Not to nitpick, but I asked "What can WP do?". Your answers are concerned with what WP is, rather than what it does.

Nitpicking is fine. It's much preferred over the vagueness usually encountered on forums.

Anyway, my post is an admission that Android is currently the most feature rich and flexible mobile OS. I think that is rather undisputed. So, if you wish to restrict your views to see only what you want to see, then your question is rather rhetorical and warrants no further discussion.

Where you are completely wrong is on the issue of what is just "nice to have" and what is essential. The features you're interested in are "easily" implemented and copied (it's just work). At some point, all mobile operating systems will be similarly capable in this regard. At least to the degree that the manufacturers want them to be similarly capable (not every feature that can be implemented should be implemented).

What can't be copied is who you are, as that must be engineered into the system from the get-go. These are what will become strategic advantages later on.

 

[Usman Mubashir]

Um, what? In terms of pure functionality (i.e. what the phone can and cannot do without regard to how it is done), Android is parsecs ahead of WP. If the built-in apps cannot do it, there is, more often than not, an app that can. I believe the only thing my L920 can do that my N4 cannot, is offline nav. And that can be fixed with the OSM app (which btw has much better maps for Pakistan than WP does). Your assertion that WP can provide/Android cannot is invalid, because Android does not necessarily need to provide a certain function if there are apps to do it. Moreover, there are many things that Android can do that WP never will be able to because of it's nature (e.g. true background tasks, the ability to attach arbitrary files to emails).

First up, I did say in coming days (years maybe) WP will have the functionality to do stuff that Android cannot possibly do ever. While I agree Android is ahead of Windows Phone in terms of functionality, but this boils down to personal preferences only. Most of the times, I keep all my important stuff in SkyDrive -EDIT: Actually, Windows automatically puts it all online- so instead of first downloading, then attatching and uploading again seems bit slower IMO. so I just send people the links to all such stuff and they can download them from there. Not a big deal.
What has really got into my mind is Microsoft testing things like streaming HALO 4 on low end WPs like Lumia 520. Microsoft can do that. Google too can do that. But what Microsoft can do is allow remote controlling of my whole computer right from my phone. can Google or any Android app do that? Well, maybe if Microsoft decides to keep vulnerabilities in Windows ecosystem and allow third party support in WP just like Windows desktop, which I don't see coming.
Its hard to explain what these things are especially if you don't even like WP. All functionality of WP is connected to the Windows ecosystem that includes Desktop OS, XB1, Office and stuff like that where you cannot deny MS has unmatched advantage over Google.

 

[akulgupta100]

Just switched from an android running cyanogenmod 10 to a wp and simply loved it .Widgets are **** designed to drain. Your battery..The mailing experience in wp is simply fantastic .On android there is no instant mail notification and i need a different app for each email account, total madness.Androids tile view is a total copy of wp..I need a different app on android for fb sync,Hindi keyboard,twitter sync wtf is that..All of this is flawlessly integrated into WP..

In 2 years from now, wp is gonna be on the top and noone will buy a droid

Sent from my Windows Phone 8X by HTC using Tapatalk

 

[anon(8238064)]

I am sorry, but I am new here. Why is there a 'banned' instead of 'member' under some avatars?

 

[anony_mouse]

You truly are a nokia & WP loyalist bro .. keep up the good work

Just out of interest, why are you guys so loyal to a particular product? Isn't it better to wait and see what happens? Who knows who will come out with the best phone next year?

 

[anony_mouse]

True background tasks & the ability to attach arbitrary files to emails...?
WP8 can do it all now..after the GDR3 update....and true multitasking isn't available in any OS except the dead Meego which is now the Sailfish OS in Jolla..Android and multitasking?..haha..not in this lifetime because the kernel is so poorly modified that it is not only taking down the name of Linux but also making people switch to other OS's..and Android being a Google product ,er scroogle product,it already has earned the name of copying things from here and there..only if you are aware!

Could you explain your criticisms of Google's modifications to the Linux kernel? And what you mean by "[Android/Google] has earned the name of copying things from here and there.."? Thanks!

 

[anony_mouse]

SO I suggest you shush!

This is an discussion forum - telling people to shut up because they don't agree with you does not advance your argument.

 

[anony_mouse]

But what Microsoft can do is allow remote controlling of my whole computer right from my phone. can Google or any Android app do that?

Not sure what you mean by "remote controlling of my whole computer" (or even if that is a good idea), so I will assume you mean using some private APIs in Windows that are not available to third party developers. Microsoft could create apps for iOS, Android, etc to do this. Why don't they? Why restrict this function only to Windows Phone? Seems very bad for their ecosystem overall to prevent 90%+ of mobile users from using these features.

Its hard to explain what these things are especially if you don't even like WP. All functionality of WP is connected to the Windows ecosystem that includes Desktop OS, XB1, Office and stuff like that where you cannot deny MS has unmatched advantage over Google.

So this only works for people who have Microsoft platforms on all their devices, yes? Do you think that's a good strategy?