Any reason not to go with DP?

MKairys

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Getting a new Icon today, understand Denim is around the corner, any reason it might be better to wait and not do DP? I'm used to it on my current phone (HTC 8X) but I wonder if going directly from black to denim would be cleaner somehow...
 

gpobernardo

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Getting a new Icon today, understand Denim is around the corner, any reason it might be better to wait and not do DP? I'm used to it on my current phone (HTC 8X) but I wonder if going directly from black to denim would be cleaner somehow...

You would get most of the features of Denim when you enroll in Developer Preview (live folders, changeable alarm snooze times, etc.... except for the camera enhancements), but until you receive the actual Denim update not all of these will be available.

To answer your question, there have been reports of phones being bricked after installing developer preview. However, I'm guessing that's a very small portion of the population of those who are enrolled in the developer preview program. That's the only real risk I can think of. There's a concern about voiding the phone warranty, but that depends on the dealer.

I've been enrolled in the developer program and I have not encountered any serious problems with my phone.
 

MKairys

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So would you expect that after Denim installs, we'll end up with the same bits whether we previously installed DP or not? That's my question I guess...
 

gpobernardo

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So would you expect that after Denim installs, we'll end up with the same bits whether we previously installed DP or not? That's my question I guess...

Yeah, relatively the same "bits", but the official release could just be more stable since Denim is predominantly a firmware update while the updates those in DP get are "just" OS updates. So, two cases:

1. Enrolled in DP: Phone might be a bit unstable before the official update, but will get most of the features of Denim. Official Denim would bring firmware updates in addition to the OS updates that were made available through DP. This could mean better hardware performance (such as the much-awaited camera improvements) and increased stability.

2. Not enrolled: Official Denim would bring both the new OS features and firmware updates in one package. This is a "safer" alternative, since it's more holistic.
 

rambo47

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There was some talk, back before we learned that Icon users would not be getting the Cyan update, that folks running the DP would not be able to update until they deleted the DP and wiped to factory settings. Turns out to be much ado about nothing as we are forced to wait for Denim instead, but there is a chance that running the DP will delay your official update when it becomes available.
 

link68759

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To answer your question, there have been reports of phones being bricked after installing developer preview.

Not possible to brick a phone these days- certainly not possible to brick WP. For the DP to have "bricked" the device, the device would have had to have been damaged in the first place. As long as the bootloader functions, nothing you do to the phone will brick it. No one has figured out how to modify the bootloader.

To "brick" a WP, you'd need a really convenient electrical short that somehow only affected the bootloader, and I'm not even sure that alone would be enough...
tl;dr if something goes wrong that a hard reset won't fix, look around the forums for a guide on how to flash a stock rom.
 

Dadstar0410

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Getting a new Icon today, understand Denim is around the corner, any reason it might be better to wait and not do DP? I'm used to it on my current phone (HTC 8X) but I wonder if going directly from black to denim would be cleaner somehow...

Outdated OEM firmware. The only reason I will never go back to the DP :(
 

beerme1

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Not possible to brick a phone these days- certainly not possible to brick WP. For the DP to have "bricked" the device, the device would have had to have been damaged in the first place. As long as the bootloader functions, nothing you do to the phone will brick it. No one has figured out how to modify the bootloader.

To "brick" a WP, you'd need a really convenient electrical short that somehow only affected the bootloader, and I'm not even sure that alone would be enough...
tl;dr if something goes wrong that a hard reset won't fix, look around the forums for a guide on how to flash a stock rom.

I will disagree with you. I had an 822 on DP and the last update before denim bricked it. Will not turn on, no hard reset, no soft reset. New battery and still nothing. So unless I'm misunderstanding the term "bricked" my sure as hell bricked.
 

link68759

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I will disagree with you. I had an 822 on DP and the last update before denim bricked it. Will not turn on, no hard reset, no soft reset. New battery and still nothing. So unless I'm misunderstanding the term "bricked" my sure as hell bricked.



I don't mean to be rude but I have to believe this is user error, or an extremely well timed unrelated hardware problem. The boot loader is read only and I'm not aware of any update having ever written to it on any WP. If the boot loader works, you're not bricked. Roms, firmware, etc have nothing to do with the boot loader and cannot harm it.



I'm sure you've tried the usual- plug it in, hold volume down and power till it vibrates, release power and continue holding volume down to enter flashing mode. Check to make sure your power button is actually working (a common problem with an easy fix). Verify the button combo I have you is right for your phone :)
 
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What is a bricked device
http://www.howtogeek.com/126665/htg-explains-what-does-bricking-a-device-mean/


There have been several reports of various windows phones being bricked or rendered unusable after dp. Lumia, HTC phones and Samsung phones. It is a rare occurrence though and is usually recovered through Nokia recovery tools.

At this point, I'd probably stick with black at least for a few weeks. If by January end you hadn't heard anything about it coming officially then use dp.

Good to see you on icon btw. Verizon's best windows phone.
 
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Slovenix

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My device gets random reboots Sometimes.. Or is it in apps or just random. Not so often than it sounds but it's still annoying as there is no such thing on my Nexus device.
 

Ebuka Allison

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This site states (https://dev.windows.com/en-us/develop/devpreview)
"As a Windows developer, you can preview Windows Phone system updates before mobile providers make them available to customers. With these updates, you can test and validate your apps on your development phone to make sure they work correctly when the updates are officially released to all customers."
This is what we always assumed right?
It then goes on to say:
"Not a developer? No problem"
The link then goes to this page which states:
"You can get the latest and greatest Windows Phone operating system now, without waiting for your mobile provider to give you the updates."If you agree with the terms, register with App Studio?it?s free. Don?t worry, you don?t need to make any apps. Just register so you can get the updates"

For the warranty issue "You might void any warranty from your mobile operator and OEM. Contact your mobile operator if you?re concerned about any repercussions."
 

beerme1

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I don't mean to be rude but I have to believe this is user error, or an extremely well timed unrelated hardware problem. The boot loader is read only and I'm not aware of any update having ever written to it on any WP. If the boot loader works, you're not bricked. Roms, firmware, etc have nothing to do with the boot loader and cannot harm it.



I'm sure you've tried the usual- plug it in, hold volume down and power till it vibrates, release power and continue holding volume down to enter flashing mode. Check to make sure your power button is actually working (a common problem with an easy fix). Verify the button combo I have you is right for your phone :)

I'm not taking it as being rude but you don't seem to accept the issue that occurred to my phone.
Plugging it in does nothing. It will not vibrate. No button combination does anything. Verizon tech level 2 couldn't do anything to help. Nokia support couldn't do anything to help. Nokia recovery tool does nothing. I don't think that's user error, do you?
Nokia's suggestion was a new battery. That did nothing. So the definition of bricked to me is a paperweight. That's what the phone is and that happened while the phone an 822, was updating.
That said I am struggling with thought of picking up a free Icon on a two year renewal, but if I do I will put it on DP right away.
Having used the dp for a few months on the 822 I replaced the brick with a new 822 and immediately put dp on it and don't think I would enjoy the phone nearly as much with out it. If I put it on an Icon at least I know I will be in warranty. My 822 was out of warranty and had no insurance.
And I have to believe that Microsoft would honor that should something happen again.
 

colinkiama

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Your phone's software isn't optimised for 8.1, therefore problems will occur since you don't have the correct firmware, such as weak wifi, apps crashing, slow don etc. but the worst thing is the nightmares that some users have posted about. The bricking of your phone. If the icon is your main phone I highly recommend not downloading the DP. At least not until firmware is released for 8.1 like Cyan or Denim, then it would be ok. When I put DP on my phone, it worked well until a few updates later, the camera kept crashing. I reset the phone many times. No luck. Haven't tried flashing it though but anyway, there's a reason why it's called the 'Developers Preview' and not the 'Public preview' if you do decide to get it. Be careful.
 

Harrie-S

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Yes but the idea of pfd is to get the OS updates before the firmware!!
And indeed everyone should make there own decision.
 

Jose_Rey

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I don't understand people. They want the latest and greatest software, but when sh*t goes south, they blame the OEMS. You have no one but yourself to blame if you do this and render your phone unusable. There's a reason Microsoft issues a VOID WARRANTY warning. So, as an Ativ S user, be warned... it is possible to have a useless phone after DP. Before DP, Perfect! After DP... random reboots, reboot loop, unusable camera.

But anyways, you have an Icon. There's the Nokia recovery tool for that. I have a Lumia 520 and I'll probably keep that on DP once I get whatever it is that I'll get. Will decide after CES. But because it most definitely won't be a Lumia, I'm not putting DP on it.
 

link68759

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Yes but the idea of pfd is to get the OS updates before the firmware!!

And indeed everyone should make there own decision.



The idea is actually to get the updates without OEM approval. While firmware updates are always nice, it is a bit misleading to say that every software update requires firmware updates to somehow make it magically more stable. I would attribute issues with the DP to kinks in the install/update process- just as many users (most likely much more, actually) experience the same issues as DP users on official updates too. If there is no hardware issue, a flash followed by a hard reset will fix all things. Unfortunately, this fix requires wiping your phone and most users just stop at, "the DP sucks", or often even "WP sucks".
 

BSobotta

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Getting a new Icon today, understand Denim is around the corner, any reason it might be better to wait and not do DP? I'm used to it on my current phone (HTC 8X) but I wonder if going directly from black to denim would be cleaner somehow...

I have noticed on a few different WPs lack of optimization issues when installing the DP. Also texting issues especially related to T-Mobile.
 

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