Lack of mainstream educational classroom apps on W10M?

[quikmantx]

There are a lot of issues with the future of W10M, but outside of the mainstream social apps, people haven't really mentioned the lack of prominent educational apps. There are a few (Khan Academy, Brain Pop, Lynda.com, etc.), but there are also many others out there not on W10M.

It's obvious MS has moved towards targeting the business sector over the direct consumer sector. However, MS should also be targeting the education sector as well. The education sector has been moving in a digital direction for awhile now. MS provides software, tools and resources for students, but it still seems MS lacks a comprehensive suite of solutions for this sector. Meanwhile, young children and adults are getting more familiar with Chromebooks, Macs, Google Docs, and other solutions from competitors as institutions are turning away from MS in many cases. Losing out on the education sector is bad.

I was reading a recent article by my local newspaper and they listed the 10 best apps that teachers and students find helpful for studying and active participation in the classroom. None of them have an app on W10M.

• ClassDojo - iOS, Android, Kindle Fire, "any computer" (probably browser) [source]
• Schoology - iOS, Android, Kindle Fire [source]
• StudyBlue - iOS, Android, Web, Evernote [source]
• TickTick - iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android (phone, tablet), Web, Mac, Chrome, Firefox, Chromebook, Android Wear, Apple Wear [source]
• SoftChalk - content viewing has been tested only on iOS and Android 2+ higher; eReader app only supports iOS, Android, Windows 7+, Chromebooks, Chrome Browser [source]
• XtraMath - iOS, Android, Amazon [source]
• Kahoot - iOS, Android [source]
• Trello - iOS, Android, Web, Slack; claims they support most mobile browsers including Safari on iOS 8, the Android 4.0+ browser, and Internet Explorer on Windows Phone. Not sure if W10M is included with "Windows Phone". [source]
• eBackpack - iOS, Android, Windows 8+ (source: via web search for "ebackpack download")
• Mathway - iOS, Android [source]

How to request a W10M app:

• ClassDojo - Click "Contact Us" to submit a request via a web form.
• Schoology - Select "General Company Inquiry" and hit "Submit" to submit a request via a web form.
• StudyBlue - Submit request via a web form.
• Tick Tick - Continue adding comments onto this request or maybe even this request. You can search for all Windows 10 requests too in the search box on the main forum page.
• SoftChalk - There are 5 to pick from on their contact page including General Information (learnmore [at] softchalk.com), Marketing (marketing [at] softchalk.com), Support (support.softchalk.com), Sales (sales [at] softchalk.com), and Webmaster (webmaster [at] softchalk.com). I picked General Information.
• XtraMath - Email Erika directly to request the W10M app: erika [at] xtramath.org. According to XtraMath's FAQ, they don't plan to release an app for other platforms, but they will if there's enough feedback asking for it, and they provided Erika's email.
• Kahoot - They have a UserVoice forum. This is the leading Windows 10 app discussion so far. 3 votes per person max.
• Trello - press [at] trello.com; [source]
• eBackpack - Submission form.
• Mathway - Submission form.

I think it's important the W10M community continue pushing other companies directly to support W10M. Whether its via submission forms on their websites, social media, email, phone, etc. Being vocal on tech sites doesn't help W10M when it's the outside companies/organizations that need to hear this.

UPDATE: Here are the responses from the companies as of 2016-11-06:

1. ClassDojo: No plans for a W10M app; suggests using their website on W10M
2. Schoology: No response.
3. StudyBlue: No response.
4. TickTick: W10M app is in development!
5. SoftChalk: No response.
6. XtraMath: No plans yet, but might do it if more people request it. Here's a snippet from what their reply: "What we decide to implement and when depends in large part upon how often that feature is requested and how it fits in with our long-term vision for the program."
7. Kahoot: No response.
8. Trello: No plans for a W10M app.
9. eBackpack: Plans for a WUA; states that the eBackpack Parent website is fully responsive and works great on W10M in their tests; "We do anticipate launching a Windows Universal App based on this in the future although exact product plans are always subject to change. That app should provide a wonderful experience on Surface tablets and phones alike. Windows phone currently comprises about 0.4% to 0.7% of the overall market depending on where you look (and less than 0.01% of traffic we have detected). I wanted to share this as while you should have no problems using it in a modern browser on these platforms, we do not consider it to be a major platform and is not part of any explicitly tested and supported platform nor a focus of ours going forward. Microsoft has stated their phone focus is on business users and accordingly, there should continue to be a decline in the consumer market and almost no utilization in schools."
10. Mathway: No plans for W10M, but may consider it in the future.

 

[matt john2]

This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.

 

[xandros9]

This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.

Same.

Also ya missed Canvas and Blackboard Collaborate.

 

[cracgor]

This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.

I used to use the same logic the OP has for trying to get apps to the system. You either like W10M as is or you choose something else. The apps I need for my work have been missing for as long as I used WM.

Makes me mad that they develop then abandon a hardware or software system...means developers have to start all over again and again. Can't blame them for quitting.

 

[D21K]

This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.

I agree on that, but maybe asking for uwp windows 10 app instead, some of those app could be useful for windows tablets and parents/students desktops, idk that could work :evil:

 

[quikmantx]

Thank you. I did miss Blackboard. Haven't heard of Canvas.

 

[quikmantx]

This specific topic hasn't been beaten to death. I was specifically mentioning educational apps. I could only find one other post mentioning specifically educational apps. Please read my post more carefully.

 

[Kevin Rush]

My local credit union didn't have a banking app for Windows phone so I wrote to them and asked for a Windows phone app and explained about universal apps. Now, months later, they introduced a universal app.
I didn't really expect a Windows app, I really didn't absolutely "need" a banking app, but no harm in asking.
.
I have other stories in my life of writing to ask for change, expecting nothing, and then the change has happened. Not often, but some big and some small wins. You can't win, if you don't try. If you care about educational classroom apps, write to them.
Best Wishes

 

[daimv]

I have a few stories of asking for an app and getting "not planned sorry" as a sad response. Sucks, but f... them.
A few of the ones in the list would actually be useful for me, so I will send a few requests indeed.

 

[daimv]

And... done. Requested/Voted. Schoology is pretty cool. Kahoot is pretty cool. I hope they do release apps.

 

[FXi2]

I think this is a good article highlighting actual named apps needed and yes I'll help work on letting the vendors know. I suspect that many of these apps don't get steadily used on a phone but rather a tablet, so perhaps the UWP angle is a valid consideration here. Calling the platform dead is both wishful thinking (clearly you have no other point in saying that) and were it to happen you'd regret it. Competition is highlighting the weaknesses of all the platforms and that brings about changes and is good for the consumer. All of these vendors are having a positive effect on consumer options. So if you want to help on this topic, help. If not then please take the Glum oriented comments of "we're all doomed" somewhere else.

 

[matt john2]

I think this is a good article highlighting actual named apps needed and yes I'll help work on letting the vendors know. I suspect that many of these apps don't get steadily used on a phone but rather a tablet, so perhaps the UWP angle is a valid consideration here. Calling the platform dead is both wishful thinking (clearly you have no other point in saying that) and were it to happen you'd regret it. Competition is highlighting the weaknesses of all the platforms and that brings about changes and is good for the consumer. All of these vendors are having a positive effect on consumer options. So if you want to help on this topic, help. If not then please take the Glum oriented comments of "we're all doomed" somewhere else.

Why take the hassle to ask these certain app developers to spread their greatness to Windows Mobile ecosystem when in the end they'll just gonna abandon it because of not enough users or (in some cases) no one actually use their products, just look at some big players like banking services that pulled their apps off the store.
I've seen so many unfinished apps that are left and abandoned that I'm certain, the ones listed above if in some circumstances might bring their apps, will eventually soon be taking their apps down or leaving it unfinished. Now tell me, when's the last time where Windows 10 versions of apps were prioritised first, I personally can't recall such thing. And I'll be glad if they actually made their apps available for Windows Phones at all, which is very rare.

There's really no point of clinging on the Windows Mobile ecosystem anymore when all apps you need are available and FAR more superior on other OS. Like Jaime Rivera said "It's not the phone, it's Windows 10 Mobile that's bottlenecking it"

 

[daimv]

Whatever you say Matt.
Some of us like Windows.

 

[matt john2]

Whatever you say Matt.
Some of us like Windows.

I know, and that's really sad.

 

[Krystianpants]

Voting on apps or contacting developers unless you have a direct interest in the app makes no sense. You shouldn't ask people to spam them just because you want windows to get more apps. You are giving false expectations to developers. You get 20,000 votes for an app that only 3 will use because of some social media ploy. That means the company will spend all this money and lose out in the end and become even more sour about windows mobile. Things have to happen naturally. The app gap would not be a problem if there were a revolutionary feature that draws curiosity from crowds. Something that makes media headlines globally. If a developer sees that something looks like it will become big they will get cracking on it right away.

 

[daimv]

Well I voted/requested the ones I have a direct interest in, so no harm done. I believe most people will do the same.

 

[TechFreak1]

Voting on apps or contacting developers unless you have a direct interest in the app makes no sense. You shouldn't ask people to spam them just because you want windows to get more apps. You are giving false expectations to developers. You get 20,000 votes for an app that only 3 will use because of some social media ploy. That means the company will spend all this money and lose out in the end and become even more sour about windows mobile. Things have to happen naturally. The app gap would not be a problem if there were a revolutionary feature that draws curiosity from crowds. Something that makes media headlines globally. If a developer sees that something looks like it will become big they will get cracking on it right away.

The lack of educational apps directly stems from the lack of consumer focus and mind share.

I partially agree that it doesn't make sense however it's a chicken and egg situation.

Let me explain (this is not directed at you Krystianpants just my general outlook :winktongue

If you don't have apps - you can't bring users on board - lack of users means - uninterested developers.

This is why retaining mind share is absolutely critical as perception is THE fundamental principle to anything as it defines how we interact day to day.

In various sectors it's simply called Brand Awareness and in sales - you're selling a dream, a life style - which is why when you look at Apple adverts it's inherently about life style or the possibilities. So when you combine that with a short and a memorable jingle - you end up with a rather memorable advert. For example the advert where a cyclist is preparing to go out into the rain with his iphone 7. He doesn't go out into the rain in the end (which is genius) and that enables the audience to project their own story, their own "possibilities" - ergo lifestyle {Perception}.

Should it turn out that Microsoft will go full steam ahead and just focus solely in the enterprise for mobile not consumers (therefore by extension foregoing the consumer educational sector) - they will lose. They would have simply burned too many bridges to come back. It will take a long time for them to come back and that is presuming they throw everything at mobile - given the current trend that is hard to say.

Axing the Surface Mini just before launch doesn't really fill the average joe with confidence as that can be extrapolated and spun in the way most of the technosphere is doing - that seed of doubt is a powerful notion. Furthermore the average consumer will not know anything about the "ground breaking" features that may have added.

Let me briefly explain why I have adopted this stance:

The next paradigm shift is underpinned by mobile, why?

Continuum.

Continuum I believe is the transient stage between traditional computing and holographic computing.

In laymen terms by allowing users to become mobile therefore untethered you completely do away with the traditional desktop and laptop work/home scenario. I'm not saying desktop windows is going away completely but it is in the traditional sense as the majority of the populous no longer need a desktop or laptop day to day to do basic tasks.

Which is why an x86 phone is not the way to go.

Enter the advent of VR headsets, Hololens, Ai and Bots now that people have become accustomed to carrying one device to their computing needs. With the proliferation of VR headsets and AR headsets which are bound to follow; Bots will become the defacto method of interaction. You can see it now as you look at the younger generation - they are all glued to a screen. The ramifications of untethered headsets and practicality is a topic for another discussion - want to keep this extremely brief lol.

To outline the rate of progress:
When I was growing up - my IT lessons consisted of keyboard with a tiny monochrome screen which had a print function annoyingly close to the back space key, pressing this would completely wipe the memory and print out little strips of data. If you didn't have the printer attached.... you were pretty much screwed lol. By the time I was about to leave school at age 11 we finally got two computers that had dial up.

These days kids have access to tablets that have more processing power than the computers we had in libraries (IT lessons were 2 hours - you turn the machine on and almost 2 hours later they will boot up...:grincry: When I left secondary at 16 they got awesome new computers. Now 12 years on we have VR headsets, we have boosters which are capable of returning back to the launch pad).

So yes, if they do not focus on the consumer market here and now they will not only have undermined the universal app platform but set forth a motion that will become irreversible over time. Apple and Google already have a vast number of apps which through time will be updated to cater to the evolving needs of people. Presuming both Apple and Google will remain stationary is beyond incredibly naive to put it politely and Google's acquisition of API.AI proves this (another example is the 2014 purchase of Deepmind for ?400 million).

The success of hololens hinges on the fact it has a vibrant number of apps when it is released, sure not every app makes sense on Hololens but the age old notion of "larger the number, the better it is" will always be true.

The crux of it all is battery technology but that is neither here or there as that is a matter for another discussion (otherwise I will end up typing up a novel :grincry

So yes, it is undeniably a chicken and egg situation - if there is no demand for eggs and chickens why would farmers bother to rear chickens?:winktongue:

Anyway, I am eager to see what they showcase in the event this month.

 

[Krystianpants]

The lack of educational apps directly stems from the lack of consumer focus and mind share.

I partially agree that it doesn't make sense however it's a chicken and egg situation.

Let me explain (this is not directed at you Krystianpants just my general outlook :winktongue

If you don't have apps - you can't bring users on board - lack of users means - uninterested developers.
snip....
.

Microsoft already tried the approach of paying developers to initially get apps on the platform. The issue with this is that the media attention around these apps leaving the platform make the platform seem worse than if things are quiet. So getting these education devs to make these apps because they believe interest is there will lead to something similar but will also lead the devs to have less trust for the user base. They are after all the ones who screamed for it but when it finally came it was ignored. At least if Microsoft pays the company is not down all that money.

Satya is right. The ecosystem has to come naturally. It's why he canned the whole Android project. A viable mobile solution shouldn't depend on another ecosystem. So he's targeting the strengths to build the eco system. He's like the Dark Knight. His end goal is to make the Microsoft ecosystem better but he has to make sacrifices and look like the bad guy to get there.

Again the only thing that will build this ecosystem quickly is that same enthusiasm the iphone gave users when it revolutionized tech. It went from Zero to hero not because it had a massive ecosystem already built up. No, it was unique, different and people wanted it. And MS needs that. Because otherwise it's more of the same thing. And all the press is bad. So no one will take chances.
By focusing on the strengths the ecosystem has a better chance to grow but it takes time. 1 year just hasn't been long enough. Especially given that windows 10 is not finished and the APIs aren't finished. Gaming APIs, lots of feature apis. And things are changing. A good example is mytube and mytube beta. The developer explained how much the APi changed when anniversary update came. And it actually forces making code changes in order to have things work seamlessly. And that's how it is with an unfinished OS.

 

[TechFreak1]

First of all I will try to be brief as concise as possible otherwise I will end up typing a novel haha.



1)

Microsoft already tried the approach of paying developers to initially get apps on the platform. The issue with this is that the media attention around these apps leaving the platform make the platform seem worse than if things are quiet. So getting these education devs to make these apps because they believe interest is there will lead to something similar but will also lead the devs to have less trust for the user base. They are after all the ones who screamed for it but when it finally came it was ignored. At least if Microsoft pays the company is not down all that money.

Paying developers is not the way go as there is no vested mutual interest.

I agree that the media coverage has blown things out of proportion however Microsoft did not help the situation by swinging a massive axe to the mobile division and letting go insane amount of talent (or in statistical terms - resources). Unfortunately communication is not Microsoft's strong point for example I remember seeing a presentation about interactive tiles where the presenter point blank said something along the lines of "it allows users to interact with your app without bothering to open up your app"... *facepalm*.... that was well over a year ago. That video has since been pulled If I do find it again I post a link to it in this post.

Microsoft needs to create excitement about what they are doing and unfortunately they keep cutting sdks, not using the developer tools that they make developers use. For example the band sdk, they used their own tools to code around it and get notifications to work with phones. How do you think that makes developers feel?


2)

Satya is right. The ecosystem has to come naturally. It's why he canned the whole Android project. A viable mobile solution shouldn't depend on another ecosystem. So he's targeting the strengths to build the eco system. He's like the Dark Knight. His end goal is to make the Microsoft ecosystem better but he has to make sacrifices and look like the bad guy to get there.

Yes, the ecosystem has to come naturally however an ecosystem is not grown by solely focusing on the enterprise. You need consumer momentum ergo Xbox Entertainment Studios which could have developed merchandising such as Halo theme wireless chargers, Xbox themed docks now that Xbox runs on a variant of Windows 10. Then you throw in the accessory makers into the mix which also fuels further momentum - What is the point of having a Certified for Lumia moniker when you are going to axe the Lumia brand?

The reason why Nokia was insanely successively they have had an insane amount of accessories and accessory makers; I can recall going through the market and seeing stall after stall there were tonnes for Nokia accessories from face plates, stylized keyboards, keyboards that lit up with ringtones and so on.

Going back to Microsoft, do we have OEMs making accessories en-mass for Lumia phones or windows phones?

Nope, we do not.

To add to the conundrum Microsoft has high quality apps on both the competing market place and they even have their own launcher on Android. So how on earth is the ecosystem supposed to grow naturally?


What happened to Windows best?


By going to where the users are they inevitably going to cannibalise Phone sales. They needed to draw users to the phone platform for Continuum (I would blame that on lack of forward planning and communication between departments).

People think Ballmer missed the mobile market, which is incorrect - Windows Mobile (Windows CE) existed long before the Iphone. It lacked a Unified store that was its downfall. Plus without OEM skins Windows Mobile was not even touch optimized.

Again the only thing that will build this ecosystem quickly is that same enthusiasm the Iphone gave users when it revolutionized tech. It went from Zero to hero not because it had a massive ecosystem already built up. No, it was unique, different and people wanted it. And MS needs that. Because otherwise it's more of the same thing. And all the press is bad. So no one will take chances.
By focusing on the strengths the ecosystem has a better chance to grow but it takes time. 1 year just hasn't been long enough. .

They will not be able to grow the ecosystem quickly without any form of consumer momentum.

To generate that enthusiasm they need to create mindshare and product placements aren’t enough to create mindshare.

They need to throw hell of a lot more resources at mobile. instead of shying away from the consumer market.


Microsoft is in the unique position unlike their competitors:
They have a console, they dominate the desktop, They have a mobile play and until recently a form of wearable (if rumours turn about to be true)

They easily could have leveraged the One Core aspect and made Windows Mobile central to everything and Zune had makings of that i.e. playlist updating over Wi-Fi. Sure we are seeing a unified store materialise but what good is a unified store if they aren’t going to focus on the consumer space?


Also Infotainment systems, it boggles the mind that Microsoft is not even in this sector where as Google and Apple are.

Here are some quick examples:

You could easily stretch a unified store to the aforesaid systems and have your music, movies and TV show purchases sync across.

Enable the user to project their phone and play games (You can still do that but I have yet to see an advert showcasing this), sync across contacts, map favourites and routes – save a route on your PC and its automatically synced to your car for when driverless cars hit the main stream. In the interim period of course you could use your phone but do you really want to risk the killing the battery day in and day out?
Navigation apps usually put intense power drains on your phone and not to mention how hot they can get.

A Xbox one dock for phones to leverage continuum and the x86 CPU to run repackaged Win32 apps. Not many people need laptops or PC’s but pretty much everyone owns a games console. Another Win-Win scenario.

They could have used Zune to add enhanced music functionality to the band and for wireless streaming systems.


They could have used the band as a secondary two factor authentication for pretty much anything.

In terms of health they could have tied health vault to Xbox fitness and the band to enable additional functionality. Furthermore in conjunction with Kinect and sports you pretty much can simulate a realistic environment such as the friction difference between a clay court and grass court. This would've helped get people exercising more – Win- Win scenario. As they not only get good press they also are able to sell Xbox live subs and Fitness subs.

This would then perhaps entice game developers think of more imaginative ways to use Kinect or/plus the band i.e. using the heart rate sensor in the band to dynamically create scary situations in horror games therefore increasing replay value and unpredictability.

This list is endless.

TDLR: Microsoft cannot forego the consumer market.

Especially given that windows 10 is not finished and the APIs aren't finished. Gaming APIs, lots of feature apis. And things are changing. A good example is mytube and mytube beta. The developer explained how much the APi changed when anniversary update came. And it actually forces making code changes in order to have things work seamlessly. And that's how it is with an unfinished OS

This is where Microsoft’s lack of a coherent strategy and the woeful decisions are clearly evident in the mobile space. Windows Phone 7 series when it launched it was unique. BUT they made the crazy decision of completely disregarding the enterprise and not to mention using Windows CE as its kernel. This by then was absolutely ancient.


If one was to draw a pattern of growth for Windows Phone, instead of a clearly exponential trajectory is it's more akin to a wave. It peaks when Microsoft makes a silly decision and then it tanks.... then it rises then tanks at another silly decision.

Windows 10 is not finished?


It won’t be and will continuously evolve however Mobile on the other hand... they had insane amount of time to get it polished.

Here is why and I'm being incredibly brief here:


Windows Phone 7 Series:

1)Windows Phone 7 Series did not support Landscape much (that is understatement)
2)It ate msd cards by making them part of the O/S and flipping the secure bit so it couldn't be read in msd card readers that did not support "secure msd cards". This resulted in certified for Windows Phone 7 Series to hit the market
3) Some phones instead of using on board flash memory used msd cards instead!
4) They did not allow certain WM 6.x phones to be able to update to WP7 because it did not support the navigation ergo not a consistent user experience
5) The reference design programme did not allow for landscape qwerty phones
6) The search function was amazing in the US but disgusting everywhere else.
7) They forced dead UX space by saying that the arrow on top of screen allowed for a cleaner look.
8) No Copy and Paste support plus other basics until the NoDo update
9) Still reluctant to add a file explorer
10) Poor O/S design in terms of social feed attachment resulting in o/s updates per API / back end changes.
11) No notification centre
12) No smart dialling despite being available in WM6.x
13) Back up features almost none existent
13) Enterprise features pretty much none existent

Windows Phone 8
1) Email support was horrendous, adding an attachment defaulted to the photo hub.
2) You could only attach one file from the office hub and only to a new email
3) They are still reluctant to add a file picker / file explorer
4) The UX is progressing well but they started to dismantle it by focusing on telemetry
5) Poor O/S design in terms of social feed attachment resulting in o/s updates per API / back end changes.
6) Poor Tap to pay implementation as it relied on carrier support via secure Sims
7) Still no notification centre
8) Removal of Zune and Music rebrand
9) Back up features still woeful

Wp8.1
1) UX Dismantling is complete, hubs almost pretty much gone, Me tile is now a glorified social media launcher
2) We finally have a file picker and notification centre
Relaxed hardware configurations for OEM's but far too relaxed as some of these OEMs are not using standard buttons. Landscape support still woeful.
3) The removal of rooms and use of live messenger as it’s messaging back end. They could have integrated groupme and Skype into rooms).
4) Decent enterprise add-ons but needed a lot more here.
5) Backup.. essentially no change...

WM10)
1) They broke their promise of getting Windows 10 Mobile on all devices (understandably due to the lack of resources)
2) They pandered to the iOS and droid crowd which has resulted to a mish-mash of a UX.
For instance To copy and paste in one note now you have to tap and hold for the copy+paste bar, however that is solely changing.
3) Massive downsizing in the mobile division has lead to slow progress as they only have a certain amount of resources to allocate. This in turn means we have to wait a lot longer for basic features such as landscape panorama support and so on.
4) You would think that they would focus on decent back up client before rolling out the insider programme...


Again for each version I could go on and on.


I can understand that most of these decisions happened when each department acted independently. But seriously no other company has been in this state of flux when it comes to mobile.


TLDR: Microsoft cannot take a hiatus from the consumer market or they will lose in all sectors.

 

[Kevin Rush]

Re: TechFreak1,
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Very well thought out and said. I wish Microsoft would listen to your point of view.