Microsoft has cut back on its more 'experimental' Surface hardware lines

Iamdumbguy

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What's more experimental about the Surface Studio than the Surface Pro? Or the Surface Laptop Studio? The only experimental thing about the Surface line is its lack of support and above-market pricing.
 
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mech1164

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More like, Satya: Hey Panny can I talk to you? Panos: Sure what ya need? Satya: We're going to focus more on AI so we'll have to pull back in other areas. Panos: I see where's that? Satya: Your division, we're only doing the what has been selling. Oh and we're cutting staff and funding. That won't be a problem Will it? Panos: Well if it has to be we'll make it work. Satya: Thanks i knew I could count on you.

Panos leaves grabs his Android phone. "Hey Jeff, remember when you asked about when I'd be available. About a week from now. Ok great I'll be in your office in the morning."

That's basically what probably happened.

Satya has had a hard on to eliminate all the hardware he can. First Windows Mobile, the the front facing Stores. Now the Hardware division itself gets gutted and the reduction in what hardware they make. Any small wonder when Panos got wind of what was happening he bolted
What's more experimental about the Surface Studio than the Surface Pro? Or the Surface Laptop Studio? The only experimental thing about the Surface line is its lack of support and above-market pricing.
 

naddy69

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"...but it sounds like Microsoft is only interested in the product designs that make the most money."

Well of course. That's how companies stay in business.

If your product/department/whatever is losing money, then you can expect your product/department/whatever is going to be cut back.

WTH was Microsoft doing selling headphones anyway? One more time: MS is not a consumer products company. They never have been. They never will be.

Nothing wrong with that. Well-managed companies focus on their strengths. That's why Apple does not sell Oracle servers. Oracle does not sell phones. IBM does not sell headphones. Cisco does not have a music streaming service. ADP does not sell watches.

I would not be surprised to see the entire Surface line gone in 5 years. PC hardware is a shrinking market with low margins. Being a niche player in a shrinking market is not a good long-term plan.
 
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Jcmg62

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I thought the whole point behind the surface line was to push boundaries and experiment with new windows form factors.

Didn't they do a whole song and dance about how surface wasn't intended to erode market share or compete with hardware partners, but was actually supposed to be a guiding light for partners to copy and develop their own unique hardware?
 

Kaymd

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"...but it sounds like Microsoft is only interested in the product designs that make the most money."

Well of course. That's how companies stay in business.

If your product/department/whatever is losing money, then you can expect your product/department/whatever is going to be cut back.

WTH was Microsoft doing selling headphones anyway? One more time: MS is not a consumer products company. They never have been. They never will be.

Nothing wrong with that. Well-managed companies focus on their strengths. That's why Apple does not sell Oracle servers. Oracle does not sell phones. IBM does not sell headphones. Cisco does not have a music streaming service. ADP does not sell watches.

I would not be surprised to see the entire Surface line gone in 5 years. PC hardware is a shrinking market with low margins. Being a niche player in a shrinking market is not a good long-term plan.
But it can be argued that Surface was responsible for revitalizing the PC market.
Before Surface, most mainstream notebooks PCs were plastic garbage. Only Macs had any real 'premium' offerings. Now, Dell, HP, Lenovo, ASUS etc. have commonplace 'premium' products.

It's as if Surface injected some newfound pride into being a PC OEM. No self-respecting OEM could let a 'software' company i.e. Microsoft outdo the products of the supposedly more experienced hardware companies.
Today, very many Windows notebooks are as premium as any MacBook (I'd even argue better in many ways).

Add to the pen-enabled PC tablets, Windows on ARM etc. Things we all take for granted today. The impact of Surface cannot be overstated.

If Surface vanishes, we are left at the mercy of the OEMs and will quickly revert to the dark ages of the cheap plastic notebooks lol!
 

xenred

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I thought the whole point behind the surface line was to push boundaries and experiment with new windows form factors.

Didn't they do a whole song and dance about how surface wasn't intended to erode market share or compete with hardware partners, but was actually supposed to be a guiding light for partners to copy and develop their own unique hardware?
Well that's almost gone for a while. Ever since they release Surface Laptop with pretty much no major innovation as to why get it compared to other well known laptop brands shown Surface becoming another Wimdows OEM. Though they eventually release Surface Duo, the cancelled announced Surface Neo and Surface Laptop Studio shows they can experiment, but it's clear that the first two is gutted. Surface Laptop Studio isn't as revolutionary as Surface Book either, but at least it also solves some limitations fro Surface Book design, even though I much prefer the former due to ability to be full tablet only when needed.

Surface Studio was nice as well, but due to high cost, it didn't shake the market and feels like refused to make cheaper version of it.
 
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Iamdumbguy

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I thought the whole point behind the surface line was to push boundaries and experiment with new windows form factors.

Didn't they do a whole song and dance about how surface wasn't intended to erode market share or compete with hardware partners, but was actually supposed to be a guiding light for partners to copy and develop their own unique hardware?
The problem with experimental hardware is that its pointless without software and that's just out of the question.
 

naddy69

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"The problem with experimental hardware is that its pointless without software and that's just out of the question."

Very good point. How "experimental" can the hardware get when all you have is mouse/keyboard Windows? You need an 11" screen or so as a minimum. No matter how many times/directions the keyboard folds over/around/behind the screen. Still dealing with desktop Windows.

MS still has no mobile OS. Windows has not had a real touch UI since Windows 8.1. Windows 10 and 11 are - at best - touch tolerant.

Imagine running Linux on a 6 inch touch screen. Or MacOS. They are not designed for it, and neither are the apps. Windows is in the same boat.

That's why we have Android. That's why we have iOS/iPadOS. These are successful mobile/touch Operating Systems. Windows is not and never will be.
 

Christian Jesperson

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Panos was one of the visioneers. Now it's just bottom line focused. AZURE, AI, XBOX, 365 / WINDOWS and that's about it. This is what happens when you have accountants running the company.

One day, Microsoft will be run by an AI accountant, mark my words.
 

Christian Jesperson

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Well that's almost gone for a while. Ever since they release Surface Laptop with pretty much no major innovation as to why get it compared to other well known laptop brands shown Surface becoming another Wimdows OEM. Though they eventually release Surface Duo, the cancelled announced Surface Neo and Surface Laptop Studio shows they can experiment, but it's clear that the first two is gutted. Surface Laptop Studio isn't as revolutionary as Surface Book either, but at least it also solves some limitations fro Surface Book design, even though I much prefer the former due to ability to be full tablet only when needed.

Surface Studio was nice as well, but due to high cost, it didn't shake the market and feels like refused to make cheaper version of it.
I always asked for a fairly affordable Surface Studio screen (~1500 bucks or so MAX) without the PC, so I could plug in anything I build, to be able to keep it upgraded, and have something with longevity with pen input and a nice high res screen. They missed out. Microsoft really needs to listen to its users.

Tech companies like to pat themselves on the back for their earth friendliness, but then put out products that quickly grow obsolete that are not repairable or upgradable (or if they are repairable, they want to charge you an arm and a leg for the parts / repair kit). This model needs to change. Especially in today's world. Batteries need to be easily removable, they need to be replaceable with a good supply chain. Screens too, keyboards, touchpads, etc.

Framework and Fairphone are the only two I think leaning this way. That will be the future, not thin-ness or marginal upgrades.

My Duo 1 battery on my second device purchased since the Duo came out didn't even make it through a year after I bought it in March of this year. Microsoft says, too bad, it's out of warranty, even though I bought it brand new in box this March from Amazon, so you can imagine how pissed I am about that. The Duo is far above other foldables in terms of multi-tasking.

Upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra because at least I know Samsung supports their devices and stands behind them, not to mention they get a lot better press.
 
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Christian Jesperson

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But it can be argued that Surface was responsible for revitalizing the PC market.
Before Surface, most mainstream notebooks PCs were plastic garbage. Only Macs had any real 'premium' offerings. Now, Dell, HP, Lenovo, ASUS etc. have commonplace 'premium' products.

It's as if Surface injected some newfound pride into being a PC OEM. No self-respecting OEM could let a 'software' company i.e. Microsoft outdo the products of the supposedly more experienced hardware companies.
Today, very many Windows notebooks are as premium as any MacBook (I'd even argue better in many ways).

Add to the pen-enabled PC tablets, Windows on ARM etc. Things we all take for granted today. The impact of Surface cannot be overstated.

If Surface vanishes, we are left at the mercy of the OEMs and will quickly revert to the dark ages of the cheap plastic notebooks lol!
You do have a point. At least they elevated the industry as a whole.
Though Razer was doing good stuff first.
 

Kjw24

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More like, Satya: Hey Panny can I talk to you? Panos: Sure what ya need? Satya: We're going to focus more on AI so we'll have to pull back in other areas. Panos: I see where's that? Satya: Your division, we're only doing the what has been selling. Oh and we're cutting staff and funding. That won't be a problem Will it? Panos: Well if it has to be we'll make it work. Satya: Thanks i knew I could count on you.

Panos leaves grabs his Android phone. "Hey Jeff, remember when you asked about when I'd be available. About a week from now. Ok great I'll be in your office in the morning."

That's basically what probably happened.

Satya has had a hard on to eliminate all the hardware he can. First Windows Mobile, the the front facing Stores. Now the Hardware division itself gets gutted and the reduction in what hardware they make. Any small wonder when Panos got wind of what was happening he bolted
This is simply a I'm go over here, and they replace Satya.
 
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Kjw24

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Panos was one of the visioneers. Now it's just bottom line focused. AZURE, AI, XBOX, 365 / WINDOWS and that's about it. This is what happens when you have accountants running the company.

One day, Microsoft will be run by an AI accountant, mark my words.
Things are not good for Microsoft right now. My have a lot of problems It's time for a new C E O. I really like Satya.
 

Jonathanok100

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Microsoft pushing boundaries with new form factors and technologies was the very reason I've been a fan all these years. I've stayed through the death of Windows Phone, Microsoft Band, Cortana, Groove Music, you name it, but hearing that they've literally, explicitly abandoned the very idea of innovation tells me it's time to move on. The market for stale, vanilla products is already saturated; Microsoft has zero chance of challenging Apple as the leader of that space, or even replacing Google as the leading also-ran copycat, which is why it's ridiculous that they now have delusions of Surface suddenly becoming a profit-driving brand. In a few years maybe (hopefully) they'll once again come back to their senses and get back to what they're actually good at. In the meantime, I guess it's time to jump ship.
 

mech1164

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Microsoft pushing boundaries with new form factors and technologies was the very reason I've been a fan all these years. I've stayed through the death of Windows Phone, Microsoft Band, Cortana, Groove Music, you name it, but hearing that they've literally, explicitly abandoned the very idea of innovation tells me it's time to move on. The market for stale, vanilla products is already saturated; Microsoft has zero chance of challenging Apple as the leader of that space, or even replacing Google as the leading also-ran copycat, which is why it's ridiculous that they now have delusions of Surface suddenly becoming a profit-driving brand. In a few years maybe (hopefully) they'll once again come back to their senses and get back to what they're actually good at. In the meantime, I guess it's time to jump ship.
Question is what have they been good at recently. Windows 11 is 10 with a fresh coat of paint. Forcing people to abandon perfectly good machines. All to mine your information to make money from you. At least Google is up front with it. Meanwhile, the great software company can't make an arm based OS to save their souls. Granted Qualcomm and Intel haven't helped in this regard. You'd think for such a company in 2+ years they'd be able to get a compatible windows on an M series chip from Apple. Yet here we are. Thanks Satya, you're an arse and deserve to be canned.
 
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1078mac

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Does experimental mean things like Duo or Surface Laptop Studio? The updates for Duo 1/2 have been pathetic and I still have an issue with Laptop Studio where it refuses to change when plugged in until I hard restart. This is Panos' hardware, but he hasn't made the softwareich better soaybe it was time for him to move on. I mean he has made some great things, but others have been dreamshoya with no support. Fory money MS should focus on core surface products andake them perfect. That is a better strategy than experimental devices
 

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