This 'Windows 11 Mobile' concept offers a glimpse at what could have been

Vivio vrvly

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When you thing of portable device that changed the world, it a phone. Having the phone matters a lot, how much can apple or huawei do with their own hw or OS, they are flexible and got way wider fan base.
OS is the easy thing, having tool to bypass some apps from existing OSes also helps a lot, not to mention apps for windows are plenty, web page apps aside.
Besides that, most important factor in mobile device are cameras, no matter the price or OS, if the cameras are poor, there will be not enough enthusiasts. Trend now are 200mp ones, not 12mp, so better not to make a mistake.
With a foldables here, there is also no limit to design, which many miss with just copying each other.
Folds also works better for Microsoft as it is basically folded tablet, not much of a change(maybe just those cameras).
We went from container to desktop, to laptop and tablets. If the Microsoft miss the folded opportunity right now with fold type device vacuum in the market, it may be hard to do later.
I really miss also band devices, as if it got nothing with productivity... recently got to see some gamers pills, like for good night sleep. It goes all together, caring about customers...
 

mech1164

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There's nothing stopping Microsoft from starting up it's mobile division again except themselves. Or more specifically one person, that would be Satya Nadella. Yes he focused on what Microsoft does best Business plain and simple. Now though things are changing again. With Apple making it's own chips based on ARM and Intel still trying to catch up. How we do computing is all changing. Nothing in that demo could not be done with modern SoC's. The Bigger problem is Windows on ARM is still a cluster F. Imagine they worked with Steam to convert the calls for Direct X to work on Linux. All those Xbox games on their own handheld. Then a year later introduce Win Mobile with two models. Don't fully undercut but also don't make it priced out of customer budgets. Put in all the hooks to make it work like iPhone on macs and the drive for it would be great. AS much as i'd like it, I don't think MS has it in them.
 

taynjack

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I used to be a staunch defender of Windows and Microsoft. Yet here again with the surface duo we're seeing Nadella's modus operandi. Ignore market forces and then build 2 half-finished underfunded Microsoft versions. Wonder why no one wants it. Stop FINISHING the product. Go silent. Eventually announce, "to serve you better we're stopping our service to you! Aren't we great! We love our fans!"
I've given up. They can't make it to version 3 anymore. It's like they live to disappoint people. They're like a parent counting to three. Ooonnne, twwwwo, two-and-a-half..... They never get to three because the loyal fans abandon them. They're masters of over-extending anticipation. Wait for it... Wait for it...'two years later' wait for it...almost there... They're like those annoying influencers who wait hours to dump the sludge, or light the match.
Just look at the Surface Studio. Version 1 was an amazing first attempt targeted at creators that made creators jump for joy! Then they gimped the device with mediocre power inside. Version 2 was almost there, but was still just short of what creators really need. That led to many awaiting version 3, or a standalone monitor so they could have the horsepower they require. Version 2.5 is so close! It works now for 80% of creators, but they fail to push it over the top and they will likely discontinue it before they reach 3. I gave up waiting and bought a used version 2. I love it and I hate it. That should be Microsoft's new motto, "you'll love it and hate it!"
 
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GraniteStateColin

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Not to sound lost in the past, but a Windows mobile OS without Live Tiles as the defining differentiating feature seems to be missing the point. I suppose the new Widgets largely fulfill that function, but still not quite the same.
 

taynjack

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Not to sound lost in the past, but a Windows mobile OS without Live Tiles as the defining differentiating feature seems to be missing the point. I suppose the new Widgets largely fulfill that function, but still not quite the same.
The live tiles didn't help windows phone then. They certainly won't help it now. I was worried to leave windows 10 for 11. Within a week of changing I never looked back. Live tiles were a distracting, disorganized mess. I'm now glad they're gone. That was the best upgrade in windows 11.
 

pjmlp

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There's nothing stopping Microsoft from starting up it's mobile division again except themselves. Or more specifically one person, that would be Satya Nadella. Yes he focused on what Microsoft does best Business plain and simple. Now though things are changing again. With Apple making it's own chips based on ARM and Intel still trying to catch up. How we do computing is all changing. Nothing in that demo could not be done with modern SoC's. The Bigger problem is Windows on ARM is still a cluster F. Imagine they worked with Steam to convert the calls for Direct X to work on Linux. All those Xbox games on their own handheld. Then a year later introduce Win Mobile with two models. Don't fully undercut but also don't make it priced out of customer budgets. Put in all the hooks to make it work like iPhone on macs and the drive for it would be great. AS much as i'd like it, I don't think MS has it in them.
Even if they would make it, who would code for it, the critical apps that make or break a platform?

The way UWP was so badly managed, and how WinUI 3.0/WinAppSDK tooling fails short from the UWP development experience, no designer, super slow, endless amount of bugs, lacking feature parity, Native AOT and C++/WinRT quite behind .NET Native and C++/CX Visual Studio development experience,... means that only the Windows team themselves still care about it, as they keep updating Windows 11 UI to WinUI.

What abou the Windows development community themselves? Most of them don't care any longer, pivoted to Web, cross-platfrom frameworks, or good old Win32/.NET Forms/WPF.

Microsoft has quite a job in front of them to regain the trust of Windows development comunity, in what concerns targeting Windows first for new applications.
 

mech1164

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Even if they would make it, who would code for it, the critical apps that make or break a platform?

The way UWP was so badly managed, and how WinUI 3.0/WinAppSDK tooling fails short from the UWP development experience, no designer, super slow, endless amount of bugs, lacking feature parity, Native AOT and C++/WinRT quite behind .NET Native and C++/CX Visual Studio development experience,... means that only the Windows team themselves still care about it, as they keep updating Windows 11 UI to WinUI.

What abou the Windows development community themselves? Most of them don't care any longer, pivoted to Web, cross-platfrom frameworks, or good old Win32/.NET Forms/WPF.

Microsoft has quite a job in front of them to regain the trust of Windows development comunity, in what concerns targeting Windows first for new applications.
Well right now they have to get Windows itself running on ARM right first. Then you can tailor it for mobile (both handheld and phones). Then it really is a matter if the program runs on Win ARM it should run on other devices. The coding can happen once it's a unified code. Having Satya require it is a whole other problem.
 

GraniteStateColin

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The live tiles didn't help windows phone then. They certainly won't help it now. I was worried to leave windows 10 for 11. Within a week of changing I never looked back. Live tiles were a distracting, disorganized mess. I'm now glad they're gone. That was the best upgrade in windows 11.
@taynjack, big difference between Live Tiles on mobile and on Windows desktop, where they were only available on the Start Menu, defeating the whole point of them. It sounds like Windows 11 is moving in the right direction with it's Live Tiles update: Widgets, which will sounds like we will soon be able to move to the Desktop.

In any case, Live Tiles on a phone, where you need a way to see what matters at a glance, are much more important than on a PC. Windows Phone failed, IN SPITE of Live Tiles not BECAUSE of them. The vast majority of Windows Phone users appreciated Live Tiles.
 

naddy69

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How many times are we going to rehash this topic?

Windows phones are dead. They are not coming back. MS lost 10 billion dollars on Windows phones. There is no way they are going to try again.

Every time there is new fan concept “gee look how great a Windows 11 phone is” picture, everyone wonders why MS does not start selling Windows Phones again.

Give it a rest.

BTW, the Surface Duo is also dead. They probably lost another billion dollars selling less than 100,000 Duos in 3 years. The world is just not interested in a phone - even an Android phone - from Microsoft.

Plus, Microsoft is not interested in products that lose billions of dollars. No company is.
 

GraniteStateColin

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How many times are we going to rehash this topic?

Windows phones are dead. They are not coming back. MS lost 10 billion dollars on Windows phones. There is no way they are going to try again.

Every time there is new fan concept “gee look how great a Windows 11 phone is” picture, everyone wonders why MS does not start selling Windows Phones again.

Give it a rest.

BTW, the Surface Duo is also dead. They probably lost another billion dollars selling less than 100,000 Duos in 3 years. The world is just not interested in a phone - even an Android phone - from Microsoft.

Plus, Microsoft is not interested in products that lose billions of dollars. No company is.

I don't think anyone disagrees with you on the status of MS' prior mobile efforts (at least I don't). Not sure if you're right on the magnitude of losses, but don't have enough information to dispute it either. Regardless, none of that has anything to do with our talking about features we liked about the older devices.

Why say "Give it a rest?" Prior experiences litter all our discussions, whether it's something you or your kids did, a movie you saw, or any of a thousand other possibilities. Prior to swipe options to speed typing, I frequently commented about how much I preferred mechanical keyboards. And other times I comment on things that I would like to see in the future that have no connections to prior efforts. That's all appropriate in a technical discussion forum.

If you'd like to engage in any discussion, with any opinion, great. Otherwise, please don't interject yourself into a subject just to tell other people to stop talking about it. That's not helpful.
 

taynjack

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@taynjack, big difference between Live Tiles on mobile and on Windows desktop, where they were only available on the Start Menu, defeating the whole point of them. It sounds like Windows 11 is moving in the right direction with it's Live Tiles update: Widgets, which will sounds like we will soon be able to move to the Desktop.

In any case, Live Tiles on a phone, where you need a way to see what matters at a glance, are much more important than on a PC. Windows Phone failed, IN SPITE of Live Tiles not BECAUSE of them. The vast majority of Windows Phone users appreciated Live Tiles.
Read it again. I didn't say windows phone failed because of live tiles, I just said they didn't help. It wasn't enough then, it won't be enough now; especially with how badly Microsoft burned the few people who did like their phones with live tiles.
 

GraniteStateColin

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Read it again. I didn't say windows phone failed because of live tiles, I just said they didn't help. It wasn't enough then, it won't be enough now; especially with how badly Microsoft burned the few people who did like their phones with live tiles.
Put that way, I'm in total agreement with you.
 

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