11-12-2011 04:40 PM
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  1. king5697#CB's Avatar
    Me ranting.........I don't think Microsoft is that concerned with top notch specs as much as they are concerned with the actual experience that they are trying to sell to consumers.(ala Apple) I think we all have used and under powered device like the previous generation of Blackberry or Windows Mobile and some of us have played with high powered android devices and think we absolutely need the fastest processor or the highest pixel screen. As we all know, high horsepower comes at a cost-battery life. Bigger screens come at the same cost. I know many of us are not big Apple fans but you have to give them credit with what the have done with the iphone. The iphone never had the fastest processor nor the biggest screen... people flocked to it because of the experience. I think Microsoft is learning from their rivals and trying to follow suite by not participating in the spec war but instead, giving its consumers a wonderful experience.
    smartpatrol likes this.
    09-05-2011 03:48 PM
  2. wolf1891's Avatar
    Me ranting.........I don't think Microsoft is that concerned with top notch specs as much as they are concerned with the actual experience that they are trying to sell to consumers.(ala Apple) I think we all have used and under powered device like the previous generation of Blackberry or Windows Mobile and some of us have played with high powered android devices and think we absolutely need the fastest processor or the highest pixel screen. As we all know, high horsepower comes at a cost-battery life. Bigger screens come at the same cost. I know many of us are not big Apple fans but you have to give them credit with what the have done with the iphone. The iphone never had the fastest processor nor the biggest screen... people flocked to it because of the experience. I think Microsoft is learning from their rivals and trying to follow suite by not participating in the spec war but instead, giving its consumers a wonderful experience.
    agreed. that's definitely how it seems to me too and, I'm thinking that's the smarter way to go in the long run.
    09-05-2011 05:37 PM
  3. smartpatrol's Avatar
    Me ranting.........I don't think Microsoft is that concerned with top notch specs as much as they are concerned with the actual experience that they are trying to sell to consumers.(ala Apple) I think we all have used and under powered device like the previous generation of Blackberry or Windows Mobile and some of us have played with high powered android devices and think we absolutely need the fastest processor or the highest pixel screen. As we all know, high horsepower comes at a cost-battery life. Bigger screens come at the same cost. I know many of us are not big Apple fans but you have to give them credit with what the have done with the iphone. The iphone never had the fastest processor nor the biggest screen... people flocked to it because of the experience. I think Microsoft is learning from their rivals and trying to follow suite by not participating in the spec war but instead, giving its consumers a wonderful experience.
    Very true. It seems like the Android fans are the only ones concerned with specs, and that's probably because Android is laggy and choppy even on some dual-core processors.

    - Nokia N8 has an ancient 680 MHz ARM11-based processor, yet Symbian runs smooth as silk on it.
    - iPhone 4 has an 800 MHz single-core with an outdated PowerVR SGX935 (which is driving the highest-resolution display you can get on a smartphone), and it runs smooth as silk.
    - WP7 is running on outdated 1st-gen Snapdragon processors, yet it feels faster and more responsive than far more powerful Android phones.

    So I have to agree, most people are not going to be too concerned about the latest specs. Android is really the only OS that feels like it needs more power. The computer/gaming geek in me would love to have the latest 1.5 GHz dual-core CPU in my Windows Phone, but honestly I don't see much need for one.
    09-05-2011 07:27 PM
  4. trivor's Avatar
    This is in regards to the new HTC phones, but holds true for the first generation of phones.

    The HTC Radar is basically a Trophy painted white with a front-facing camera. 8GB of storage with no SD card option (I haven't seen anything about this, so correct me if I'm wrong) is just inexcusable for something attempting to compete with the iPhone or the latest Android devices.

    The HTC Titan is interesting, but I'm not convinced it'll find widespread adoption, as a screen that big almost relegates it to a niche market. Even so, a huge phone like this still has only 16GB of storage? Really?

    Where is the mainstream 4" / 4.3" screen phone with 32gb of memory, standard?

    The first generation of Windows Phones seemed to be Android retreads and cast-offs (LQ Quantum, really?), and even the best phone (Samsung Focus, which I have) shipped with only 8GB of storage and a SD card option that was troublesome at best and headache inducing at worst (as I and many others with SD card reset/erasing issues can attest to).

    Looking at the leaked Nokia 703 device - 3.7" screen with 8GB storage? Seriously Nokia? I understand if it's an entry level device, but God, I hope that isn't the Nokia Sea-Ray we've all been salivating about. I really hope their flagship variant knocks our socks off, because if it isn't Nokia, then I don't know who else. Maybe Samsung.

    Hopefully the Samsung Galaxy 2 variant for Windows Phone will be a high-spec'd trendsetter.

    Oh well, just venting. It really doesn't seem like Microsoft's hardware partners are setting the platform up for success with awesome, mainstream phones with great build qualities and at a minimum, 16GB of storage with 32GB preferred.
    Agree!!!! I would really like to get a WP7 BUT it is really hard to commit to the platform. I have yet to see EVEN ONE WP7 carried by anyone (I live in a small resort/retirement community) and my local Verizon store has NO display models or even one in stock that I can look at. Microsoft is in a chicken and egg situation right now and you can't just blame the carriers. OEMs only have so many resources to commit to development (even if they use a platform like Samsung did with its Galaxy S - the Focus is just the WP7 version of the Galaxy S line). I'm on Verizon for their network - why is in the world would I lock into a two contract on 18 month old hardware like the Trophy? There are dual core Android phones (with expandable memory), there are LTE phones (where are the announcements of LTE coming to WP7), there are phones with keyboards (BB type like the Droid Pro or sliders like the Droid 3), etc. And don't tell me I can pop open the Trophy, void my warranty and expand it (maybe) with a 32 GB card. While I understand WP7 with Mango will run great on current hardware I want to future proof myself as much as possible when I commit to a new 2 year contract. Unfortunately, Verizon doesn't have no-contract phones for cheap (I see a lot of GSM AT&T phones for less than $300 w/o a contract).

    And APPs (I don't care about the number) - no sports Apps (NFL/NHL have iPhone, Android and even Blackberry - no WP7) - I am a huge sports fan and want my phone to do this for me, Travel Apps (I'm talking about things like Southwest Airlines, Hotel chains, etc.) and they still don't have Audible. And this isn't just a USA problem (worldwide adoptions sucks!!!). And relying on Nokia to save the day is a poor strategy. I'm not sure how Microsoft can turn this around (hoping for the courts to knock down Google is not a winning strategy). And, by the way, iPhone 5 is coming out soon (betting Dual Core and probably a 64 GB option like the iPod touch) and probably an iPhone 4 as the new entry level. Not getting into an Android vs iOS vs WP7 debate - strictly How is Microsoft going to gain any traction in this market.

    I really wanted a WP7 at launch - no Verizon WP7 and now that it has one who wants it?
    09-08-2011 01:52 AM
  5. trivor's Avatar
    Very true. It seems like the Android fans are the only ones concerned with specs, and that's probably because Android is laggy and choppy even on some dual-core processors.

    - Nokia N8 has an ancient 680 MHz ARM11-based processor, yet Symbian runs smooth as silk on it.
    - iPhone 4 has an 800 MHz single-core with an outdated PowerVR SGX935 (which is driving the highest-resolution display you can get on a smartphone), and it runs smooth as silk.
    - WP7 is running on outdated 1st-gen Snapdragon processors, yet it feels faster and more responsive than far more powerful Android phones.

    So I have to agree, most people are not going to be too concerned about the latest specs. Android is really the only OS that feels like it needs more power. The computer/gaming geek in me would love to have the latest 1.5 GHz dual-core CPU in my Windows Phone, but honestly I don't see much need for one.
    That may be true for now BUT I want a phone that will last for AT LEAST the two years of my contract. How is WP7 version x.x two years from now going to run on 3.5 year old hardware. How about only 16 GB of memory (non-expandable) for all your portable media playing (at least iPhone has a 32 GB option and I expect the iPhone 5 will have 64GB like the biggest iPod touch). How about higher res displays (Super AMOLED plus)? And so on and so forth.
    09-08-2011 01:56 AM
  6. Judge_Daniel's Avatar
    I want to future proof myself as much as possible when I commit to a new 2 year contract.
    That is exactly why I am waiting for the second wave of Windows Phones. I, too, am on Verizon and I wasn't available for upgrade until just two months ago. However, I'm more willing to stay with my WinMo 6.5 Imagio than "upgrade" to the Trophy. I already talked my sister into getting the Trophy because she was moving from a dumb phone and she won't need or want the higher end stuff that most phones will have in the next year and a half, but for me, I want to make sure I can proudly show off WP7 to friends when they see the all new (to them, at least) interface.
    09-08-2011 03:27 AM
  7. Reflexx's Avatar
    I'm getting the feeling that Nokia is going to try to shore up their low-medium base to try to stop the bleeding before they attempt to release their 9xx series. And I can't blame them, no matter how much I want a flagship device from them.

    So now I'm not expecting to see a 9xx device until March or April.

    I'd like it to match the HTC Titan in specs. But with a 4" screen, 32 GB of storage, and a kick-*** camera.

    It would also be cool if they added little things. Like a color picker for the LIVE Tiles and the background.
    09-08-2011 09:47 AM
  8. theefman's Avatar
    I'm getting the feeling that Nokia is going to try to shore up their low-medium base to try to stop the bleeding before they attempt to release their 9xx series. And I can't blame them, no matter how much I want a flagship device from them.

    So now I'm not expecting to see a 9xx device until March or April.

    I'd like it to match the HTC Titan in specs. But with a 4" screen, 32 GB of storage, and a kick-*** camera.

    It would also be cool if they added little things. Like a color picker for the LIVE Tiles and the background.
    A low end device wont get them back in the game. Look at the reactions to the Titan and Radar, both were well received but everyone is looking at the Titan, the Radar appeals to some but its not seen as the go-to second gen WP7 device. If Nokia comes out with a second string device they shouldnt be surprised if they dont get any attention when(if) samsung also releases a true flagship device.
    09-08-2011 10:46 AM
  9. heyitwrx's Avatar
    A low end device wont get them back in the game. Look at the reactions to the Titan and Radar, both were well received but everyone is looking at the Titan, the Radar appeals to some but its not seen as the go-to second gen WP7 device. If Nokia comes out with a second string device they shouldnt be surprised if they dont get any attention when(if) samsung also releases a true flagship device.
    I definitely agree Nokia needs to put out a flagship device, but I don't think it needs to be the very first device they launch. Remember Elop has said there will be an initial launch and then more rolling out. If the first is a solid, stable, mid-range device at a great price (a la Astound on T-Mobile) it could do ok, not fantastic but respectable. Get everyone used to the idea with marketing, etc. and prove it is a good device then come out guns blazing on one of the follow up devices. This would work especially well if they launch different devices for different carriers at slightly staggered times.
    09-09-2011 01:31 AM
  10. benjiprice's Avatar
    I frankly have no idea what Nokia is doing. It's been 7 months since the partnership was announced and still these days there's almost more news about non-wp7 than wp7. If I were MS I wouldn't be happy with where things stand, especially after agreeing to pay $1B. It's a matter of weeks before people lock in new 2yr contracts with the iPhone5 and we'll see where ICS comes in. Would have been a great time to have a Nokia alternative, but instead it's looking closer to spring for US availability.
    I realize that I know nothing of the internals of Nokia and the challenges in switching to a new OS but from the outside it seems like a pretty sad flagship effort for WP7. Hope things change soon and Nokia comes with some goodies.
    09-09-2011 01:24 PM
  11. Raptor007's Avatar
    For me to upgrade my Trophy I need more than a FFC, LTE would be much nicer, 32GB installed is a must and a nicer display. Not a higher Res display (now that I know its an OS limitation) but a nicer looking one.

    I would like to see what Nokia has to offer, but Samsung would be nice as well with AMOLED or SAMOLED+ if possible.
    09-09-2011 01:28 PM
  12. Reflexx's Avatar
    A low end device wont get them back in the game. Look at the reactions to the Titan and Radar, both were well received but everyone is looking at the Titan, the Radar appeals to some but its not seen as the go-to second gen WP7 device. If Nokia comes out with a second string device they shouldnt be surprised if they dont get any attention when(if) samsung also releases a true flagship device.
    It depends where.

    In the US and maybe UK it might not get them much press. But elsewhere, like Asia, the Nokia name is press enough. People specifically go looking for Nokia.

    The vast majority of Nokia's market comes from low to mid-range devices. Keep in mind that WP7 still is incredibly fluid and fast with the minimum spec devices. We even saw dev devices before launch that were fluid with 800 mhz processors. The non-flagship devices will make up the vast majority of their lineup. And they will be GOOD PHONES that are faster than more expensive fancy spec phones. They'll take better quality pictures than many fancy high spec phones. They'll have better signal strength than a lot of fancy high spec phones. I just hope that some of these mid-range devices are made available with at least 16 GB of storage.

    What makes a better phone? The specs or the performance?

    I'm not saying that Nokia shouldn't make a flagship high spec device. But I am saying that likely won't be their focus.

    We'll likely see a bunch of mid-range devices that still look and perform quite nicely. Then there may be one device (the 9xx series) that is has impressive "specs". The only noticeable performance difference will likely be the load times and frame rates of a few games. Though in a high spec device I'd like to see 32 GB or storage.
    smartpatrol likes this.
    09-09-2011 01:35 PM
  13. heyitwrx's Avatar
    I frankly have no idea what Nokia is doing. It's been 7 months since the partnership was announced and still these days there's almost more news about non-wp7 than wp7. If I were MS I wouldn't be happy with where things stand, especially after agreeing to pay $1B. It's a matter of weeks before people lock in new 2yr contracts with the iPhone5 and we'll see where ICS comes in. Would have been a great time to have a Nokia alternative, but instead it's looking closer to spring for US availability.
    I realize that I know nothing of the internals of Nokia and the challenges in switching to a new OS but from the outside it seems like a pretty sad flagship effort for WP7. Hope things change soon and Nokia comes with some goodies.
    You need to keep in mind that not only is it new software but also new hardware for Nokia to deal with. At launch at least (I'm not sure if this has changed) the only processor even allowed on a WP7 phone was the Qualcomm Snapdragon. With all of the lawsuits in the past I don't believe they have ever used a Qualcomm chip so unless MS has loosened up the requirements they are basically starting from scratch.
    09-09-2011 01:55 PM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    It depends where.

    In the US and maybe UK it might not get them much press. But elsewhere, like Asia, the Nokia name is press enough. People specifically go looking for Nokia.

    The vast majority of Nokia's market comes from low to mid-range devices. Keep in mind that WP7 still is incredibly fluid and fast with the minimum spec devices. We even saw dev devices before launch that were fluid with 800 mhz processors. The non-flagship devices will make up the vast majority of their lineup. And they will be GOOD PHONES that are faster than more expensive fancy spec phones. They'll take better quality pictures than many fancy high spec phones. They'll have better signal strength than a lot of fancy high spec phones. I just hope that some of these mid-range devices are made available with at least 16 GB of storage.

    What makes a better phone? The specs or the performance?

    I'm not saying that Nokia shouldn't make a flagship high spec device. But I am saying that likely won't be their focus.

    We'll likely see a bunch of mid-range devices that still look and perform quite nicely. Then there may be one device (the 9xx series) that is has impressive "specs". The only noticeable performance difference will likely be the load times and frame rates of a few games. Though in a high spec device I'd like to see 32 GB or storage.
    Under normal circumstances launching with a mid-range phone would be fine, but with the situation with WP7's sales and Nokia's rapidly diminishing marketshare as it is their first device needs to be a real standout. That grabs the attention of consumers, draws them to the phone and other models and starts to put WP7 in front of people who value the Nokia brand and all it stands for.

    We musn't forget that the competition will also keep getting better, increasing their marketshare and lead over WP7/Nokia and mindshare with consumers. Rather than allow the competition to get so far ahead for a long time I think its better to start the comeback as soon as possible with a big splash for Nokia's first WP7.

    Someone's got to do it, doesnt look like htc, samsung or anyone else is going to. Nokia's got the most to lose so they are the one's who should be putting the most into WP7.
    09-09-2011 10:19 PM
  15. red grenadine's Avatar
    Reviving this thread as we now know that the Focus S has only 16GB of memory

    Samsung Focus S hands-on preview reveals 16 GB of storage | WMPoweruser

    These 2nd generation devices are disappointing across the board. Not a single combination of:
    Good Screen quality and Size
    32GB+ Storage
    Good Build Quality
    Front Facing Camera

    Some of these might not matter to people, but it's a simple check the box of thing. If you want to compete with the iPhone and Android superphones, you have to check these boxes off.

    Supremely disappointing effort by MSFT's hardware partners this generation
    11-04-2011 10:33 AM
  16. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    Reviving this thread as we now know that the Focus S has only 16GB of memory

    Samsung Focus S hands-on preview reveals 16 GB of storage | WMPoweruser

    These 2nd generation devices are disappointing across the board. Not a single combination of:
    Good Screen quality and Size
    32GB+ Storage
    Good Build Quality
    Front Facing Camera

    Some of these might not matter to people, but it's a simple check the box of thing. If you want to compete with the iPhone and Android superphones, you have to check these boxes off.

    Supremely disappointing effort by MSFT's hardware partners this generation
    I completely agree. The discussions of dual core or significantly higher RAM don't really change the experience for the end user. It's the storage, build quality, screen quality, and camera that will set them apart from the rest of the WP7.5 herd. I have heard that the demand for the new iPhones and the iPads has caused shortages in 16GB and 32GB flash memory, which could be constraining the OEMs somewhat but I do wish some OEM/carrier would take that first step and offer a phone with a choice of storage options at different price points, as the iPhone does, rather than decide for us how much storage we need.
    11-04-2011 04:50 PM
  17. Mars2003's Avatar
    Yeah, I'm also a little disapointed with the new releases, not one hit the mark from my POV.

    It seems like every single one is lacking in at least 1 department and none make me want to trade in my 16Gb Omnia 7.

    I'm starting to wonder if the entrance of Nokia had an effect on releases from the other partners.

    IMHO Single core is not one of the issues though, 1.4-1.5 Ghz looks pretty nice to me, especially when the upgrade to the GPU element is taken into account.

    Nokias Lumia 800 screen size is just too small for me and the lack of FFC is a curious missed opportunity. Love the design though, that's how to make an up market all plastic phone. Close but no cigar Nokia!!

    HTCs Radar whilst well designed appears to be strangely downclocked to 1ghz, still better than Gen 1 devices due to the core enhancements though. Again the screen size is a put off and 8Gb is simply inadequate.

    An honourable mention should go the HTC Titan. Processor, Storeage (16Gb is enough), camera, Screen and build quality all hit my check boxes. I'm just a bit unsure if I can go for something that big.

    Samsungs Focus S, like the Titan hits most of the points on my super phone checklist. I'm a little unsure about the lightweight plastic design and in the end it wont matter as we'll not get it over here in the UK. WTF Samsung where's the Euro S grade phones??

    Samsungs Omnia W. Great in every respect apart from the limited storeage and the screen size/ Non-RGB Amoled. I like the build/design better than the Focus S.

    ZTE, bit of an unknown quantity in my book.
    11-12-2011 04:40 PM
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