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10-29-2011 10:23 AM
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  1. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    I posted this in another thread in the Lumia 800 board, and I apologize for double posting, but I wanted to get this out there. I understand that Nokia hasn't been partnered with MS for very long. I understand that MS has very tight requirements/restrictions under the current chassis 1 standards. But it seems to me that given the nascent stage of the WP7 ecosystem, an OEM could come in and claim the high end of the WP7 market now, get in early, and be in a great position if/when WP7 takes off.

    This would be absolutely fine to me:

    4.0"+ (up to 4.3") SAMOLED+ or SLCD screen
    800 x 480 resolution
    8mp auto focus QUALITY camera w/ dual flash
    1.3mp ff camera
    1.5GHz single core processor
    1800 mah battery
    1GB of RAM
    32GB of internal storage OR expandable external storage
    Similar form factors as the 800
    WP 7.5
    All Nokia (or analogous) apps

    This is COMPLETELY DOABLE with the current chassis 1 requirements/restrictions. I just don't get why no one will make one and claim the HIGH END of the WP7 market for themselves!! I REALLY thought that Nokia had the "Ace" up their sleeves but it appears that it's not ready for prime time yet.
    soulzero likes this.
    10-26-2011 06:25 PM
  2. palandri's Avatar
    Good question! Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. I said in another post if they just loaded WP7 on a Nokia N8, everyone would want one. WP7 definitely needs a high end, top of the line device.
    10-26-2011 06:32 PM
  3. Dusteater's Avatar
    Because carriers are being really stupid and not requesting anything, and OEM's are being overly cautious. I don't need all of that above, but just anything in the USA at all. Only one release date for any US carrier so far. Pretty pathetic.
    10-26-2011 06:33 PM
  4. Dr.Phil's Avatar
    I posted this in another thread in the Lumia 800 board, and I apologize for double posting, but I wanted to get this out there. I understand that Nokia hasn't been partnered with MS for very long. I understand that MS has very tight requirements/restrictions under the current chassis 1 standards. But it seems to me that given the nascent stage of the WP7 ecosystem, an OEM could come in and claim the high end of the WP7 market now, get in early, and be in a great position if/when WP7 takes off.

    This would be absolutely fine to me:

    4.0"+ (up to 4.3") SAMOLED+ or SLCD screen >Focus S (Titan 4.7 inch)
    800 x 480 resolution >Focus S and Titan (and really all WP7)
    8mp auto focus QUALITY camera w/ dual flash >Titan
    1.3mp ff camera > Titan and Focus S
    1.5GHz single core processor >Titan and possibly Focus S too
    1800 mah battery >don't know specs on that
    1GB of RAM >512 MB seems to be the norm
    32GB of internal storage OR expandable external storage >None
    Similar form factors as the 800 >None
    WP 7.5 >Titan and Focus S
    All Nokia (or analogous) apps >Um...Lumia 800? lol

    This is COMPLETELY DOABLE with the current chassis 1 requirements/restrictions. I just don't get why no one will make one and claim the HIGH END of the WP7 market for themselves!! I REALLY thought that Nokia had the "Ace" up their sleeves but it appears that it's not ready for prime time yet.
    I see what you are saying that you are wanting all of this to be on a Nokia phone, but if we were to be real here there would have to be something MORE than just more RAM and expandable storage to better differentiate itself from the competition. They need to create a phone that maybe has a physical slideout keyboard or one with a 12 MP camera like on the N8. Basically if they took the E7 and added a 12 MP camera with Xenon flash and put WP7.5 on it then you would have your Ace.
    palandri likes this.
    10-26-2011 07:27 PM
  5. palandri's Avatar
    I see what you are saying that you are wanting all of this to be on a Nokia phone, but if we were to be real here there would have to be something MORE than just more RAM and expandable storage to better differentiate itself from the competition. They need to create a phone that maybe has a physical slideout keyboard or one with a 12 MP camera like on the N8. Basically if they took the E7 and added a 12 MP camera with Xenon flash and put WP7.5 on it then you would have your Ace.
    I agree!
    10-26-2011 08:11 PM
  6. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    Personally, I wouldn't want the added bulk of a keyboard or anything larger than 4.3" for the display. Beyond that, they get too big for me. And I don't think you need a 12 MP camera. I'd MUCH prefer a high quality 8 mp camera, like the Nokias have. All I'm asking for is something bigger than the sub 4" range, more RAM and storage space, a good camera, and some style. It's eminently doable. The Lumia 800 could have been it, but the screen is smaller than ideal and the RAM and storage are lacking.
    10-26-2011 09:07 PM
  7. Dave Blake's Avatar
    Wouldn't a 32g Nokia ACE just about cover what you are looking for?

    Sent from my T9295 using Board Express
    10-26-2011 09:17 PM
  8. jfa1's Avatar
    That would do it for me but it would be nice to be able to swap out the nand for another up to 64GB. But the carrier need to ask the OEM s to make a device with high end specs and take a leap of faith that rnough people will buy it and asdvertise it before release with a kick butt ad campaign ala the I guys and CREATE the demand and the magic!
    10-26-2011 10:19 PM
  9. baseballbert's Avatar
    If the Focus has expandable memory, im getting that. Nokias are cool, awesome design, but I like having the extra storage for taking family pics!

    He once made a blackberry pie out Mangos. Chickens say "tastes like Mango" when they bite into apples, out of respect. He conquered an entire army of androids with a single Mango. He's the most interesting cell phone user alive. "I dont always use smartphones, but when I do, I use WP. Stay Metro my friends."
    10-26-2011 10:20 PM
  10. Dr.Phil's Avatar
    Personally, I wouldn't want the added bulk of a keyboard or anything larger than 4.3" for the display. Beyond that, they get too big for me. And I don't think you need a 12 MP camera. I'd MUCH prefer a high quality 8 mp camera, like the Nokias have. All I'm asking for is something bigger than the sub 4" range, more RAM and storage space, a good camera, and some style. It's eminently doable. The Lumia 800 could have been it, but the screen is smaller than ideal and the RAM and storage are lacking.
    Um, maybe you need to take a look at this site and then you will rethink putting the 12 MP camera on it:

    Shootout: Nokia N8 v Canon 550D DSLR | The Handheld Blog

    Also, there isn't that much more bulk. The N8, which is like the E7 just without the keyboard, is 12.9 mm thick while the E7 is 13.6 mm thick. So, if Nokia would just learn how to minimize their technology more they could fit a slim keyboard. In fact, the lumia 800 which they just announced is 12.1 mm thick (another negative going for it considering even the behemoth the Titan is only 9.9 mm thin). I use to have a Blackberry Bold that I never had a problem with in terms of putting it in my pocket and taking it out (and never really noticed it was that thick) and it was 14.1 mm thick. So I don't think having a keyboard phone would really cut down on its portability and I don't think it would be that bulky.

    Also, on a side note, what about a N97 Mini WP7? That would be interesting to see. The Xperia Mini is a good seller for Android and Apple is supposedly considering coming out with an iphone nano.
    10-27-2011 12:12 AM
  11. cckgz4's Avatar
    Why don't we wait until Nokia World is.........over?
    10-27-2011 12:14 AM
  12. lumic's Avatar
    I can see that exact phone coming in early 2012 from Nokia.

    By the way, it is highly doubtful that Nokia World will have many more important announcements. You would want to announce your major stuff at one event, and not sneak it in afterwards.
    10-27-2011 03:39 AM
  13. power5's Avatar
    You only get 6 apps running in Mango. Why do you need 1gb ram?

    No idea why MS will not allow more storage though. No reason to limit to 16gb when every other platform has much higher. Unless they are really wanting to push the skydrive for some reason. What we need is a phone with the material quality of an iPhone. Glass and steel and very solid to the touch. Rubberized plastics or aluminum shells do not feel as high quality in my opinion. Hardware specs are not very impactful to the wp7 OS. Does not seem to need a 2ghz SC processor or 1gb ram. A better GPU for games would be nice and more storage would be great. Throw a 12mp camera into the back of an elegantly simple design like the iPhone and I would be in heaven. Of course it needs to be at least a 4" screen as well.
    10-27-2011 10:05 AM
  14. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    Wouldn't a 32g Nokia ACE just about cover what you are looking for?

    Sent from my T9295 using Board Express
    Yep. But I've been off contract since last April. I tried a first gen WP7 but I need multiple Google calendar support for my work. That arrived with Mango but I was holding ot for the second gen WP7 handsets to take that step up. Now I'm being told to just wait until Q1 of next year. What I'm asking for is not unreasonable or undoable. The Nokia Ace, if it ever appears from the mist, would work quite well.
    10-27-2011 10:58 AM
  15. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    Um, maybe you need to take a look at this site and then you will rethink putting the 12 MP camera on it:

    Shootout: Nokia N8 v Canon 550D DSLR | The Handheld Blog

    Also, there isn't that much more bulk. The N8, which is like the E7 just without the keyboard, is 12.9 mm thick while the E7 is 13.6 mm thick. So, if Nokia would just learn how to minimize their technology more they could fit a slim keyboard. In fact, the lumia 800 which they just announced is 12.1 mm thick (another negative going for it considering even the behemoth the Titan is only 9.9 mm thin). I use to have a Blackberry Bold that I never had a problem with in terms of putting it in my pocket and taking it out (and never really noticed it was that thick) and it was 14.1 mm thick. So I don't think having a keyboard phone would really cut down on its portability and I don't think it would be that bulky.

    Also, on a side note, what about a N97 Mini WP7? That would be interesting to see. The Xperia Mini is a good seller for Android and Apple is supposedly considering coming out with an iphone nano.
    Comparing a bulky dedicated camera with interchangeable lenses won't change my opinions about an 8MP camera on a phone. A phone camera is a point and shoot type of camera and I found the Nokia N8 pictures more than satisfying on that scale.

    And while the 800 may be thicker that some others, the difference is negligible, especially given the stylishness of the phone. And as I said, I REALLY don't want a physical keyboard, particularly not a landscape keyboard, but that is just my preference. I think there should be all stripes of phones to meet the desires of all stripes of people. While you can minimize the space a keyboard takes up, if you eliminate it altogether, it will ALWAYS be thinner. Take an E7, remove the keyboard, and it's thinner. Take a DVP, remove the keyboard, and it's thinner. My background is with BlackBerrys as well and I'm used to a physical keyboard but in my brief time with my WP7, I quickly grew used to the virtual keyboard and found it very easy to use. Again, just my preference.

    And while you note that the Titan is thinner than the 800, I would hope it would be! Given the width and the length of the Titan, it has more room (i.e., volume) to place all the required internal components. The smaller size of the 800 gives it less room to configure all the internals, which is probably why the FFC disappeared on the 800. A larger screen, say 4.0" to 4.3", would have more room and could possibly be thinner than the 800.
    10-27-2011 11:11 AM
  16. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    You only get 6 apps running in Mango. Why do you need 1gb ram?

    No idea why MS will not allow more storage though. No reason to limit to 16gb when every other platform has much higher. Unless they are really wanting to push the skydrive for some reason. What we need is a phone with the material quality of an iPhone. Glass and steel and very solid to the touch. Rubberized plastics or aluminum shells do not feel as high quality in my opinion. Hardware specs are not very impactful to the wp7 OS. Does not seem to need a 2ghz SC processor or 1gb ram. A better GPU for games would be nice and more storage would be great. Throw a 12mp camera into the back of an elegantly simple design like the iPhone and I would be in heaven. Of course it needs to be at least a 4" screen as well.
    I am no engineer but I just assumed that additional RAM would allow for more sophisticated gaming experiences and allow more resource intensive apps to be developed. That said, it makes sense that a better GPU might be the way to go for those sorts of things.

    And I agree about the materials and the feel of the phone. I don't like the Samsungs because they feel cheap. The experience just turns me off. The HTC Trophy that I had (by default, as Verizon only has one WP7 phone), has a good, solid feel to it. And everything I've read about the 800/N9 makes them sound like they have a good solid build to them as well.

    No idea why MS will not allow more storage though. No reason to limit to 16gb when every other platform has much higher.
    I've never heard that it was a requirement/restriction of MS for chassis 1. I thought, and still think, it is up to the OEM and carrier as to how much to offer. Expandable storage allows the user to decide but I don't think the OEMs/carriers want that. They'd prefer to sell a 16GB iPhone for $199 and charge you an extra $100 for another 16GB than to allow you to add a cheap 16GB or 32GB microSD card yourself. I think the days of cheap expandable storage in phones is rapidly disappearing. Even the new Android Samsung Galaxy Nexus phone doesn't have a microSD slot. This will be a new profit center for the OEMs and carriers.
    10-27-2011 11:25 AM
  17. selfcreation's Avatar
    This would be absolutely fine to me:

    4.0"+ (up to 4.3") SAMOLED+ or SLCD screen
    800 x 480 resolution
    8mp auto focus QUALITY camera w/ dual flash
    1.3mp ff camera
    1.5GHz single core processor
    1800 mah battery
    1GB of RAM
    32GB of internal storage OR expandable external storage
    Similar form factors as the 800
    WP 7.5
    well the FOCUS S basicly have thes specs.... :) 1.4Ghz not 1.5 and battery is 1450 mah not 1800 but basicly the same.

    and nokia has a gambling problem , they pissed away the 7million from MS :) lol ;) so dont hold your breath for them to make the enxt big WP
    10-27-2011 11:59 AM
  18. Reflexx's Avatar
    My guess is that the first order of business for Nokia was to try to stop the bleeding in their biggest source of revenue. Low-mid range devices.

    They need to generate excitement in their largest customer base.

    I do expect to see higher end devices in MWC. At least I hope so. I really like the rumors regarding the Ace.
    10-27-2011 12:37 PM
  19. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    My guess is that the first order of business for Nokia was to try to stop the bleeding in their biggest source of revenue. Low-mid range devices.

    They need to generate excitement in their largest customer base.

    I do expect to see higher end devices in MWC. At least I hope so. I really like the rumors regarding the Ace.
    And while I respect that sentiment, do you really think they're going to market the 800 as a low-mid range device? I'm betting it gets priced at $199 on contract in the US assuming it doesn't have LTE, as Verizon tends to charge a $100 premium on LTE devices. That's not mid range price territory.
    10-27-2011 02:53 PM
  20. Dr.Phil's Avatar
    Comparing a bulky dedicated camera with interchangeable lenses won't change my opinions about an 8MP camera on a phone. A phone camera is a point and shoot type of camera and I found the Nokia N8 pictures more than satisfying on that scale.

    And while the 800 may be thicker that some others, the difference is negligible, especially given the stylishness of the phone. And as I said, I REALLY don't want a physical keyboard, particularly not a landscape keyboard, but that is just my preference. I think there should be all stripes of phones to meet the desires of all stripes of people. While you can minimize the space a keyboard takes up, if you eliminate it altogether, it will ALWAYS be thinner. Take an E7, remove the keyboard, and it's thinner. Take a DVP, remove the keyboard, and it's thinner. My background is with BlackBerrys as well and I'm used to a physical keyboard but in my brief time with my WP7, I quickly grew used to the virtual keyboard and found it very easy to use. Again, just my preference.

    And while you note that the Titan is thinner than the 800, I would hope it would be! Given the width and the length of the Titan, it has more room (i.e., volume) to place all the required internal components. The smaller size of the 800 gives it less room to configure all the internals, which is probably why the FFC disappeared on the 800. A larger screen, say 4.0" to 4.3", would have more room and could possibly be thinner than the 800.

    You can't give excuses to Nokia. The 4.3 inch Samsung Focus S (with notably less volume than the Titan) is able to fit all of its components in a 8.5 mm thick chassis. And according to your logic it has a smaller screen so that gives it even less volume to put all that stuff in. The truth is Nokia just reused the N9 chassis and made it worse actually. And they could have fit a front facing camera in it easily. The N9 has one, so this should have had one as well. Also, final example and more similar to the lumia 800 is the Focus Flash which also has a 3.7 inch screen but has an 11 mm thick chassis and I believe it also has a front facing camera. The point is that Nokia could have fit alot into that chassis. You can't give them an excuse unless they are using old technology which at that point why want something with old technology. Look at how much Samsung was able to pack into the Galaxy SII. I think they rushed this to the market without even thinking about it. It will probably show when they finally release the device and you find that the Focus S and Titan will be selling more. Their only hope is the Ace at this point.

    Also, I wasn't arguing that a phone with a keyboard could be just as thin I was just arguing that it doesn't add that much bulk. And according to sources the Ace seems to have a keyboard with it.
    Last edited by wp7pwns; 10-27-2011 at 03:33 PM.
    10-27-2011 03:22 PM
  21. Dr.Phil's Avatar
    And while I respect that sentiment, do you really think they're going to market the 800 as a low-mid range device? I'm betting it gets priced at $199 on contract in the US assuming it doesn't have LTE, as Verizon tends to charge a $100 premium on LTE devices. That's not mid range price territory.
    Doubt it. I can't even remember the last time I saw a Nokia phone for $200. Probably because there was never one. I remember buying the E71x (one of the best phones they made) brand new when it came out for $100 on contract. If they did put it on contract for $200 they will lose. Anyone who thinks they would still do good with the competition we have already seen is being ignorant. You can say well it has a 3.7 inch screen for those who don't want big screens, but you are ignoring the fact that there is the Focus Flash which would go on sale for $100 or less. Also, the number of people who prefer less than 4 inch screens is a small amount of people.
    10-27-2011 03:32 PM
  22. power5's Avatar
    I am no engineer but I just assumed that additional RAM would allow for more sophisticated gaming experiences and allow more resource intensive apps to be developed. That said, it makes sense that a better GPU might be the way to go for those sorts of things.

    And I agree about the materials and the feel of the phone. I don't like the Samsungs because they feel cheap. The experience just turns me off. The HTC Trophy that I had (by default, as Verizon only has one WP7 phone), has a good, solid feel to it. And everything I've read about the 800/N9 makes them sound like they have a good solid build to them as well.

    I've never heard that it was a requirement/restriction of MS for chassis 1. I thought, and still think, it is up to the OEM and carrier as to how much to offer. Expandable storage allows the user to decide but I don't think the OEMs/carriers want that. They'd prefer to sell a 16GB iPhone for $199 and charge you an extra $100 for another 16GB than to allow you to add a cheap 16GB or 32GB microSD card yourself. I think the days of cheap expandable storage in phones is rapidly disappearing. Even the new Android Samsung Galaxy Nexus phone doesn't have a microSD slot. This will be a new profit center for the OEMs and carriers.
    And while I respect that sentiment, do you really think they're going to market the 800 as a low-mid range device? I'm betting it gets priced at $199 on contract in the US assuming it doesn't have LTE, as Verizon tends to charge a $100 premium on LTE devices. That's not mid range price territory.
    In gaming ram is just for storing information for quick access. This is usually textures. Gaming on handhelds requires very small textures so I would not expect it to need much ram at all. When netbooks were the rage, MS would not allow units with less than 1gb of ram to be loaded with win7. So I bet they do have restrictions. No idea if that covers storage or not though.

    From what I have read about LTE its a big antenna. This is one reason the new iPhone on verizon does not have 4G LTE and just has 4G. If nokia can cram an LTE radio in the N9 they probably will. Its a huge marketing tool right now.
    10-27-2011 03:33 PM
  23. Budroid's Avatar
    I'm in the same boat as Umm Yeah, well a similar one anyway. Contract ended in March on my iPhone 3G. Started playing with an HD7S and WP7 rocks but there are no new Mango devices on the market and I'm tired of waiting. No Nokias in the US until sometime in first half 2012? Give me a break. And the only phone announced so far that interests me is the Focus S...and maybe the Nokia Ace - but even if it is real, I won't have one before sometime next year. The 800 looks pretty cool but it is too little too late IMO.

    I'm still waiting to see what the Focus S is all about and if I can get one before Thanksgiving. If not, I might end up with an SGS2 with a WP7 theme & launcher. I'm not totally convinced I shouldn't go with the SGS2 anyway.

    As for the single core processors and 512MB of RAM, that appears to work for now. Even the HD7S with the 1Ghz and 576MB RAM is smooth. But what about when Apollo is released?
    10-27-2011 04:16 PM
  24. DroBoy's Avatar
    I think MWC we will see slew of new devices for WM.
    10-27-2011 08:14 PM
  25. Umm Yeah's Avatar
    Well, it looks like there may be one phone that might match my specs here. Hopefully the rumor pans out.

    It still leaves me personally with two problems. First, I'm on Verizon and can't switch out due to business and I've never heard anything about the Focus S coming to Verizon. Second, I'm not a fan of the plasticky feel and build quality of Samsung phones. But at least someone is considering the higher end specs I was concerned about.
    10-28-2011 07:39 AM
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