01-11-2012 11:35 PM
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  1. Duvi's Avatar
    It'll be easier to hand-off when switching from a 4G to a 3G and from 3G to 4G areas on AT&T because of HSPA+. The network is already capable of simultaneous voice & data. I'd imagine your voice can stay on 3G or even EDGE and while using LTE for the data.

    I'm not an expert... nor do I know much about how it works, but I've read that LTE will be better on AT&T than it is on Verizon.
    12-30-2011 07:54 PM
  2. Dr.Phil's Avatar
    I didn't know this, but LTE phones can be used with current 3G networks then if you don't have LTE in your area yet?
    AT&T is the only one that is able to switch between HSPA+ and LTE. So, if you buy an LTE phone and are not in an LTE area you will still get (I would say almost as fast given network traffic) somewhat the same speeds you would be getting on LTE at 21 Mbps max. Right now AT&T is expanding HSPA+ to look like their old 3G coverage map. And with the spectrum buy from Qualcomm you will see more LTE cities being rolled out.
    12-30-2011 10:06 PM
  3. Dr.Phil's Avatar
    Well if they are all on ATT it means that ATT has the cash and reserves to funnel to HTC Nokia and Samsung to get the top tier phones and Sprint and Tmo cant handle the financial load. Only VZN can compete and they had better start soon to get onto the WP LTE trian or it will very apparent that they are too deeply entwined in Android and Iphone to get out. Hopefully they will jump onboard as they are neededalong with all carriers to push sales and the ecosystem forward through 2012 and beyond.
    Verizon I don't think has any intention to jump on the WP train as of right now. I think they are going to sit it out and see how successful the platform becomes before offering more headsets. I mean we all have to be honest, WP7 is not the most popular OS out there but we are changing minds through these new updates like Mango. And I have full confidence that with Apollo, WP will take the place of Blackberry at around 20% of the market share.
    12-30-2011 10:08 PM
  4. Premium1's Avatar
    Verizon I don't think has any intention to jump on the WP train as of right now. I think they are going to sit it out and see how successful the platform becomes before offering more headsets. I mean we all have to be honest, WP7 is not the most popular OS out there but we are changing minds through these new updates like Mango. And I have full confidence that with Apollo, WP will take the place of Blackberry at around 20% of the market share.
    WP needs to do something since their market share isn't really growing at all. I think offering more high end phones on all carriers would help this, and until they do that it won't grow much if any(which is shown in the most recent market share poll)
    12-31-2011 10:57 AM
  5. Duvi's Avatar
    Verizon I don't think has any intention to jump on the WP train as of right now. I think they are going to sit it out and see how successful the platform becomes before offering more headsets. I mean we all have to be honest, WP7 is not the most popular OS out there but we are changing minds through these new updates like Mango. And I have full confidence that with Apollo, WP will take the place of Blackberry at around 20% of the market share.
    And that's the same thing that happened to them with the iPhone. When and if Microsoft takes off, they'll then be begging for it to be on their network.
    12-31-2011 11:23 AM
  6. theefman's Avatar
    WP needs to do something since their market share isn't really growing at all. I think offering more high end phones on all carriers would help this, and until they do that it won't grow much if any(which is shown in the most recent market share poll)
    The carriers call the shots in the US. No one can "offer" anything on a carrier if they dont want to, and there is zero market for unlocked, unsubsidised phones so if, as we are seeing, Verizon or any other carrier doesnt want to carry WP7 there is nothing Microsoft, Nokia or anyone else can do.

    I'm pretty sure MS would like to have more handsets on all carriers but they cant force them on a carrier so they have to go with the options they have. Better there is at least 1 carrier option with high end WP7 devices than waiting for Verizon to change their mind and have no option at all. I hope at&t is mega successful with their WP7's, maybe that will bring other carriers round. Of course, better advertising wont hurt either.
    12-31-2011 01:13 PM
  7. Premium1's Avatar
    The carriers call the shots in the US. No one can "offer" anything on a carrier if they dont want to, and there is zero market for unlocked, unsubsidised phones so if, as we are seeing, Verizon or any other carrier doesnt want to carry WP7 there is nothing Microsoft, Nokia or anyone else can do.

    I'm pretty sure MS would like to have more handsets on all carriers but they cant force them on a carrier so they have to go with the options they have. Better there is at least 1 carrier option with high end WP7 devices than waiting for Verizon to change their mind and have no option at all. I hope at&t is mega successful with their WP7's, maybe that will bring other carriers round. Of course, better advertising wont hurt either.
    There is plenty they can do, more commissions, more incentives to sell the phones. You act like google isn't doing that for android. If wp were selling verizon would carry them but the simple fact is that they aren't which is why verizon is giving MS the cold shoulder for wp7.
    12-31-2011 01:45 PM
  8. theefman's Avatar
    There is plenty they can do, more commissions, more incentives to sell the phones. You act like google isn't doing that for android. If wp were selling verizon would carry them but the simple fact is that they aren't which is why verizon is giving MS the cold shoulder for wp7.
    Well I'm not really sure how MS is going to increase sales enough for Verizon when Verizon themselves wont give it a chance. And it seems at&t is willing to carry WP7, whether its because they have been offered incentives or other benefits, and its unlikely MS would offer less to Verizon so it would seem its the carrier itself thats not interested.
    12-31-2011 02:40 PM
  9. Premium1's Avatar
    Well I'm not really sure how MS is going to increase sales enough for Verizon when Verizon themselves wont give it a chance. And it seems at&t is willing to carry WP7, whether its because they have been offered incentives or other benefits, and its unlikely MS would offer less to Verizon so it would seem its the carrier itself thats not interested.
    I think if MS wanted to get verizon on board they should give them a high end wp7 phone with like a certain period of exclusivity like verizon got with the nexus. That would give verizon some incentive since they would have the phone before another carrier and may be potentially able to sway some new customers from other carriers for the high end device.
    12-31-2011 03:30 PM
  10. jfa1's Avatar
    MS is not going to give any carrier anything for nothing They may give them a deal or offer a deal but not a freebie!
    12-31-2011 07:19 PM
  11. illegaloperation's Avatar
    You will be able to use 3G if 4G isn't available in your area.

    I'm not quite sure how the antenna stuff will work with AT&T. I know that with Verizon there is a bigger issue because they have a CDMA network for 3G, so you don't have any overlap in technology and functionality. So you have two separate antenna working using full power. With AT&T that might not be the case. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
    Unlike Verizon, AT&T uses circuit-switched fallback on its LTE handsets. This mean that both radios does NOT have to be on at the same time.
    12-31-2011 09:18 PM
  12. Dr.Phil's Avatar
    There is plenty they can do, more commissions, more incentives to sell the phones. You act like google isn't doing that for android. If wp were selling verizon would carry them but the simple fact is that they aren't which is why verizon is giving MS the cold shoulder for wp7.
    Just putting this out there, I am pretty sure Microsoft has done all of those things you have said. I mean Microsoft has poured tons of money into WP7 and trying to get carriers to put it on their networks. Knowing how Microsoft has operated in the past, you can pretty much bet they have exhausted these kind of options. That's why you are seeing Verizon offering the bare minimum that they are (the news they will be offering the Lumia 710). Also, speaking of Google, you have to remember when Android phones first came out they went primarily to T-Mobile. T-Mobile back then with Android is the equivalency of AT&T with Windows Phones now. They gave Android a chance. Other carriers later on did offer Android phones, but they were low end ones (the AT&T Backflip for instance). It wasn't until Android phones started to really catch on with users, developers, etc that other carriers really took them seriously. You can offer all the incentives and commissions you want, but to the carriers if the phone isn't selling then it's not worth the time or the effort.

    Well I'm not really sure how MS is going to increase sales enough for Verizon when Verizon themselves wont give it a chance. And it seems at&t is willing to carry WP7, whether its because they have been offered incentives or other benefits, and its unlikely MS would offer less to Verizon so it would seem its the carrier itself thats not interested.
    AT&T played it very smart on this one. We first have to look back a little more than a year ago from now when AT&T was bringing the first WP7 phones to their network. They were losing their exclusivity with the iPhone and they needed to make their portfolio of phones appear better than the competition. They, in a way, needed to offer another exclusive device. Although WP7 wasn't exclusive to AT&T, they have got a pretty good relationship going. And you can almost bet that in the future when WP7 really takes off, AT&T will be offering the best phones they put out, first.
    Justin.TV312 likes this.
    01-01-2012 03:35 AM
  13. snowmutt's Avatar
    It is up to us, the WP fans and users, to force other carriers hands. AT&T needs to see a great sales on not just these three rumored LTE phones, but the Focus Flash as a cheap handset option. The Titan has been selling decent, and the Focus S has not been a flop, but the sales have not been good enough to make Verizon or Sprint feel as though they need to worry. I am also cheering for T-Mobile to get a Titan or "S" variant to add as a top end WP option to round out their options and compete with Android on their quick network. If these devices take off and are a hit, than our other two carriers may feel the need to head off their competitions momentum.
    01-01-2012 03:28 PM
  14. Premium1's Avatar
    Just putting this out there, I am pretty sure Microsoft has done all of those things you have said. I mean Microsoft has poured tons of money into WP7 and trying to get carriers to put it on their networks. Knowing how Microsoft has operated in the past, you can pretty much bet they have exhausted these kind of options. That's why you are seeing Verizon offering the bare minimum that they are (the news they will be offering the Lumia 710). Also, speaking of Google, you have to remember when Android phones first came out they went primarily to T-Mobile. T-Mobile back then with Android is the equivalency of AT&T with Windows Phones now. They gave Android a chance. Other carriers later on did offer Android phones, but they were low end ones (the AT&T Backflip for instance). It wasn't until Android phones started to really catch on with users, developers, etc that other carriers really took them seriously. You can offer all the incentives and commissions you want, but to the carriers if the phone isn't selling then it's not worth the time or the effort.
    Except verizon really started the ball rolling for android with the original motorola droid and things took off from there. I think if the OEM's would continue offering more high end options like the titan,focus s/flash, to help with sales and maybe do what samsung was doing with the galaxy line and having 1 model on all of the carriers that would help sales, especially with nokia getting on board. Offer a high end "flagship phone" for the carriers to sell and let it go from there.
    01-01-2012 06:06 PM
  15. Premium1's Avatar
    It is up to us, the WP fans and users, to force other carriers hands. AT&T needs to see a great sales on not just these three rumored LTE phones, but the Focus Flash as a cheap handset option. The Titan has been selling decent, and the Focus S has not been a flop, but the sales have not been good enough to make Verizon or Sprint feel as though they need to worry. I am also cheering for T-Mobile to get a Titan or "S" variant to add as a top end WP option to round out their options and compete with Android on their quick network. If these devices take off and are a hit, than our other two carriers may feel the need to head off their competitions momentum.
    I would help with those numbers but I am stuck on verizon and right now they are getting nothing for wp. I think many do not know about wp7 and what it has to offer since the only phone verizon has now is the trophy which is hidden in the back of stores and with most people looking at the spec sheets when determining a phone purchase it is hard for them to look at the specs of that against other phones and pick that phone even if it may perform on par with the others.
    01-01-2012 06:08 PM
  16. Justin.TV312's Avatar
    I really don't understand the big deal about LTE, I'm perfectly happy with HSPA+.
    01-01-2012 06:42 PM
  17. koolkid09's Avatar
    I really don't understand the big deal about LTE, I'm perfectly happy with HSPA+.
    It's all about advancement. We want to evolve. LTE is more spectrum efficient and way faster than HSPA+. And if you are coming from CDMA it is a huge step because CDMA is extremely slow.
    01-01-2012 07:40 PM
  18. Justin.TV312's Avatar
    It's all about advancement. We want to evolve. LTE is more spectrum efficient and way faster than HSPA+. And if you are coming from CDMA it is a huge step because CDMA is extremely slow.
    I couldn't tell, T-mobile was only beaten by VZ 4G LTE and it wasn't by much. HSPA+ is way more than enough for what people need to do on the internet whether it be streaming,surfing,chat or downloads.
    01-01-2012 07:44 PM
  19. koolkid09's Avatar
    I couldn't tell, T-mobile was only beaten by VZ 4G LTE and it wasn't by much. HSPA+ is way more than enough for what people need to do on the internet whether it be streaming,surfing,chat or downloads.
    You're thinking in the short term. And the reason T-mobile is so fast because they don't have a lot of customers. If T-mobile was to have AT&T amount of customers with T-mobiles network it would buckle under pressure. LTE has just started and is already something great. Why do you think companies are pursuing it so fast.
    01-01-2012 07:49 PM
  20. Justin.TV312's Avatar
    You're thinking in the short term. And the reason T-mobile is so fast because they don't have a lot of customers. If T-mobile was to have AT&T amount of customers with T-mobiles network it would buckle under pressure. LTE has just started and is already something great. Why do you think companies are pursuing it so fast.
    well sprint doesn't have as many customers as AT&T and look at their network,small networks are good because you aren't competing for bandwidth ,AT&T still has network congestion issues even where they have already deployed LTE, so give it up. Not like you can actually enjoy LTE anyway because you'll be overcharged if you run your quota.
    01-01-2012 07:59 PM
  21. koolkid09's Avatar
    well sprint doesn't have as many customers as AT&T and look at their network,small networks are good because you aren't competing for bandwidth ,AT&T still has network congestion issues even where they have already deployed LTE, so give it up. Not like you can actually enjoy LTE anyway because you'll be overcharged if you run your quota.
    I have sprint... Sprint 3g is HORRRRRRIBBBBLLLLEE!!! Here a screenshot I just did on my Nexus.



    AT&T network has just rolled out. I think it's only in 20 markets with two devices. Let it grow. And you don't get charged extra for LTE. It's the same price. You're getting raped by these companies regardless. I know people like you. People over at Precentral use to think like you. Now look at them. Their OS is dead. WP7 devices need LTE, or they are going to be left in the dust.

    Edit: This is Phonedogs own Aaron Baker iPhone on Sprint and his 3g speeds.

    http://twitter.com/#!/PhoneDog_Aaron...com%2FucHdhycO
    01-01-2012 08:11 PM
  22. Justin.TV312's Avatar
    I have sprint... Sprint 3g is HORRRRRRIBBBBLLLLEE!!! Here a screenshot I just did on my Nexus.

    Click to view quoted image


    AT&T network has just rolled out. I think it's only in 20 markets with two devices. Let it grow. And you don't get charged extra for LTE. It's the same price. You're getting raped by these companies regardless. I know people like you. People over at Precentral use to think like you. Now look at them. Their OS is dead. WP7 devices need LTE, or they are going to be left in the dust.

    Edit: This is Phonedogs own Aaron Baker iPhone on Sprint and his 3g speeds.

    Twitter
    I know about sprint's 3G speeds, I used to be with them, their wi-max speeds also don't come anywhere close to HSPA(+). I know it doesn't cost extra for LTE but it'll be easier to run the data allowance with it and get overcharged. T-mobile doesn't do this. LTe isn't even available everywhere yet so it's no rush to get devices with it.
    01-01-2012 08:25 PM
  23. koolkid09's Avatar
    I know about sprint's 3G speeds, I used to be with them, their wi-max speeds also don't come anywhere close to HSPA(+). I know it doesn't cost extra for LTE but it'll be easier to run the data allowance with it and get overcharged. T-mobile doesn't do this. LTe isn't even available everywhere yet so it's no rush to get devices with it.
    But you said earlier that Sprint network was good... And on a smartphone, you are not likely to run up your bill. Unless you're downloading movies. My friend has a thunderbolt and she never uses her wifi. She only uses LTE and she hasn't went over. The only thing she does though is use Twitter, Facebook, mms, and light browsing.

    And this is not about what you want. It's about what's good for the growth of WP7. And LTE is good for it's growth.
    01-01-2012 08:29 PM
  24. Justin.TV312's Avatar
    But you said earlier that Sprint network was good... And on a smartphone, you are not likely to run up your bill. Unless you're downloading movies. My friend has a thunderbolt and she never uses her wifi. She only uses LTE and she hasn't went over. The only thing she does though is use Twitter, Facebook, mms, and light browsing.

    And this is not about what you want. It's about what's good for the growth of WP7. And LTE is good for it's growth.
    I didn't say sprint network was good unless you misunderstood my post. Yea web browsing is unlikely to put anyone over but if you're going to be tethering and watching Netflix (which they advertise) you will go over, and what happens then? overages!until this stops then LTE won't be any better than HSPA.
    01-01-2012 08:40 PM
  25. koolkid09's Avatar
    I didn't say sprint network was good unless you misunderstood my post. Yea web browsing is unlikely to put anyone over but if you're going to be tethering and watching Netflix (which they advertise) you will go over, and what happens then? overages!until this stops then LTE won't be any better than HSPA.
    They would go over on HSPA on Netflix to. Remember Verizon and Sprint doesn't have HSPA. They have CDMA. LTE is huge for those companies. It frees up spectrum for their 3g network while providing fast speeds to their customers.

    The point is LTE is here for Verizon and approaching fast for the Sprint and AT&T. If Microsoft doesn't get on the ball WP7 will be left in the dust.
    Premium1 likes this.
    01-01-2012 08:53 PM
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