09-10-2012 09:04 AM
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  1. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    I'm sad that LG and Dell drop out of the Windows Phone race =(.
    I've never been an LG fan, but I do wish Dell would have an XPS Phone to go with their tablets. I know a few Crackberry addicts that I could convert if they released a new phone like their last one. :)
    09-04-2012 06:49 PM
  2. AKA Preluva's Avatar
    I don't think anyone is hating on Nokia, I think they were just expecting MORE than what has been shown.
    09-04-2012 06:55 PM
  3. Reflexx's Avatar
    I'm sad that LG and Dell drop out of the Windows Phone race =(.
    I liked that they brought physical keyboards. I also liked that LG brought DLNA.

    It's unfortunate that LG just came with a very outdated looking phone, while Dell had so many technical problems.

    In the US, I'd be happy with multiple devices available from Nokia, Samsung, and HTC. Other OEM s are welcome of course. But for now, these three are the key until WP mindshare increases significantly.
    09-04-2012 06:59 PM
  4. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't think anyone is hating on Nokia, I think they were just expecting MORE than what has been shown.
    All we've seen and heard are rumors. Nothing has been shown.

    A thread dedicated to complaining about Nokia's offerings would probably be more appropriate AFTER they show what they have.
    09-04-2012 07:01 PM
  5. DontHate707's Avatar
    i just dont feel like its enough from a dying company. There nice efforts every nokia and wp lover will buy one but will they make this os catch on to others? because if these phones dont sell then whats gunna happen to our beloved OS?
    09-04-2012 07:03 PM
  6. Timture's Avatar
    The OP has been on a Nokia bashing/Samsung loving blitz lately, no surprise he's talking down the Nokia phones and tomorrows event. Which is actually an event, and not just 2 minutes within a whole presentation about other stuff, like Samsung did in their Ativ announcement.
    Say what? Nokia have nothing else to show but windows phone? Of course they need to make an event of it. Need I remind you that Samsung debuted the Ativ S Tablets and Galaxy Note 2 on the same stage? I'd say they did a good job because they had people and the blogs talking about Windows Phone 8.

    And lets not say the Ativ isnt a good looking phone, it is. But Nokia as always is going to do much more than just produce a phone and nothing else, which it seems Samsung is doing. They are not talking about it in any way so already its being overshadowed. With Nokia already we've seen leaks of different colours, accessories and there is probably still much more to be revealed tomorrow.
    Again more speculation, but for some reason siding with Nokia. Why not wait till all cards are on the table before making assumptions. BTW, Samsung isn't just producing a phone, they're all in with Windows 8/Phone 8. They've got a bigger ecosystem for Windows 8/Phone 8 than Nokia do. Tablets, Slate PCs, the works. Not sure how you're seeing it the other way.

    And all these reasons are why Nokia WP devices are regarded as the best of all the WP OEM's. The design may be recycled, and that I too do not like. But overall the experience of owning a Nokia WP is just so far above any other WP OEM that ultimately that will not matter. Some people just cant handle that fact.
    Says who, you? Sorry, but if you want facts that some people can't handle, it's the fact that Windows Phone has an extremely small market share, and Nokia are a burning platform. They're on the brink of extinction. How are those facts sitting with you? So before you decide to say people can't handle facts, better do some fact checking first.

    Blottom line: Windows Phone needs a powerhouse like Samsung. And that is a FACT.

    No need to bash any OEM, but let's stay in reality. Just look how people are calling the Ativ S a rehash of an S3. Give me a break. The 920 looks a helluva lot more like the 900 than the Ativ S looks like an S3. Hypocritical? So again, let's keep things in reality, and just hope for the best for all OEMs. I want Windows Phone OS to be huge.
    saintforlife likes this.
    09-04-2012 07:21 PM
  7. freestaterocker's Avatar
    The Ativ looks like a decent phone, but I'll only buy one if the Nokias aren't available here. Which would be a reverse of the current situation. All 4 of the current Nokia devices are available in Canada, and none of the samsungs.
    09-04-2012 07:38 PM
  8. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    To the OP, I think the attitude being applied could be said of any phone manufacturer. The slab is totally getting overplayed and it would be interesting to see different form factors from all OEMs.

    To that end, it feels like to me that Samsung did no better than Nokia did. Also, to a degree Samsung might've did worse. The Ativ S, from the front, looks like such a personal FU to Apple it's ridiculous.

    Edit: As for technological hardware, I'm gonna reserve comment on that until tomorrow. It'd would be awesome to hear Nokia bump up the ppi, battery mAh, etc.
    09-04-2012 07:40 PM
  9. Winterfang's Avatar
    All we've seen and heard are rumors. Nothing has been shown.

    A thread dedicated to complaining about Nokia's offerings would probably be more appropriate AFTER they show what they have.
    We are complaining about the leaks.

    But yeah I like LG, I used to love my Optimus 7 so much but the Mango update has not being kind to that phone. It can barely handle it and has all kinds of annoying bugs, bugs that happen everyday, bugs that had turned me into this bitter husk of a once happy man.
    09-04-2012 07:43 PM
  10. andrelamont's Avatar
    I am feeling the same way IF and I do me if the rumors about the 920 hold true. From a HW perspective, if they don't offer microSD support then how is this a flagship device when the mid-range has micro-SD support?

    I don't expect NOKIA to have quad core processor but they should have the best Qualcomm dual core chip-set...say the S4 pro which has a dual core and quad core cpu

    If lame LG can get the S4 pro with quad core working then NOKIA should be able to get the dual core version working.


    No micro-SD support would be a bummer for me and would make me look at HTC/Samsung.

    Perhaps b/c I have a Lumia 900, I am not that thrilled with essential the same device minus upgraded CPU and NFC support.
    09-04-2012 07:46 PM
  11. larrynj's Avatar
    The thing that sticks out the most for me is the size of the bezels on these phones. Especially the 900, if it's got a 4.5 inch screen, then how big is the overall phone if the bezels look that big?
    I've heard a few people complain about the bezels. Could the bezels be designed to help protect the screen from cracking when you drop it? I have no problem with the bezels on my 900. I've dropped it several times and have only scratched up the corners. Unlike my last Samsung galaxy that got ruined when it fell getting out of the car.
    09-04-2012 08:20 PM
  12. Mitlov's Avatar
    I've heard a few people complain about the bezels. Could the bezels be designed to help protect the screen from cracking when you drop it? I have no problem with the bezels on my 900. I've dropped it several times and have only scratched up the corners. Unlike my last Samsung galaxy that got ruined when it fell getting out of the car.
    That very well may be. It may also may be to give you more room to hold before inadvertently touching the corner of the screen.

    On the other hand, the Ativ's is nice because it gives you a massive screen in something that really feels quite dainty in the hand (I've held a friend's Galaxy S3, and was shocked at how compact it felt despite having the biggest screen I've ever seen in a phone).

    Once again, they both have an appeal, just a very different appeal.
    09-04-2012 08:34 PM
  13. Reflexx's Avatar
    We are complaining about the leaks.

    But yeah I like LG, I used to love my Optimus 7 so much but the Mango update has not being kind to that phone. It can barely handle it and has all kinds of annoying bugs, bugs that happen everyday, bugs that had turned me into this bitter husk of a once happy man.
    Haha. My wife is the same way with LG.

    She really liked them, but then all her LG products started messing up. Now she's not a fan.
    Last edited by Winning Guy; 09-04-2012 at 08:53 PM.
    09-04-2012 08:43 PM
  14. eric12341's Avatar
    It is kind of bothering to see all this in-fighting within WP. Whether we prefer HTC,Nokia,Samsung,Huawei we all need to stick together as a community and respect the existence and sales of each device as well as those who purchase such devices because it's a WP purchase.
    I'll let this thread stay open for the official announcements tomorrow . However if things get out of hand like the last two threads on this topic then I or someone else on the mod team will be forced to close it and take disciplinary actions if necessary.
    PG2G, HeyCori and ALborntoride like this.
    09-04-2012 08:48 PM
  15. jhoff80's Avatar
    The Galaxy S3 has 1280x720. The Ativ S appears to have the exact same screen, so probably the same resolution. No word on the Lumia 920.
    I really hope Nokia went with the 1280x768 option. That'd give it an identical ratio to current WP7 devices, which as far as I'm concerned, should give a better experience for the legacy WP7 apps.
    09-04-2012 09:18 PM
  16. AngryNil's Avatar
    Because you know what, Samsung isn't treating Windows Phone as mid tier anymore. They brought their maximum possible specs to the device. The days of WP7 hardware mediocrity are over.
    There is nothing they are doing that was different to before. The Focus was the S adjusted for the WP7 chassis, the Focus S was the SII adjusted for the WP7 chassis, and the Ativ S is the SIII adjusted for the WP8 chassis.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    09-04-2012 09:54 PM
  17. Mitlov's Avatar
    There is nothing they are doing that was different to before. The Focus was the S adjusted for the WP7 chassis, the Focus S was the SII adjusted for the WP7 chassis, and the Ativ S is the SIII adjusted for the WP8 chassis.
    They're delivering the same processor and resolution as in their Android flagship. Before, they were hampered by WP7's meager hardware requirements. So this is the first time you could put a Samsung WP phone next to a Samsung Android flagship and say "the WP phone is just as good." That's different.
    09-04-2012 11:00 PM
  18. cckgz4's Avatar
    I would agree with this. Seems to me, to stereotype, that the Ativ S is the phone for engineering students and the Lumia 900 is the phone for humanities students.

    The Galaxy S3 wins the spec war and the objective utility war. Bigger screen, lower weight, replacable battery, etc. But even people who really like it (like me) can't say much for its aesthetic or its personality. It's a well-executed electronic device utterly devoid of any unique identity or personality.

    The Lumia 920 is the most boldly-styled phone on the market today...identifiable from a hundred paces. Nokia's exclusive apps help add to the "greater ownership experience." And the case it shares with the 900 has a reassuring subjective "solidity" in the hand, even if it is heavy, slippery, and doesn't allow battery replacement. The camera was the one and only thing where it might have an objective spec advantage over the Ativ S, and it turns out it won't there either.

    Both are appealing phones, but the manner in which they're appealing is night and day.
    if the 920 has pureview (well confirmed to have it), it will have a better camera
    09-04-2012 11:54 PM
  19. Mitlov's Avatar
    if the 920 has pureview (well confirmed to have it), it will have a better camera
    It's confirmed that the name "Pureview" will be used for the 920's camera. What hasn't been confirmed is what that means here.

    Nokia recently dismissed rumors of a 42-megapixel or 21-megapixel camera in the 920, saying "it's not the megapixels, it's what you do with them." Or something like that. Ignoring the fact that having that many megapixels of raw data is what allowed the 808 Pureview to do what it does, by allowing seven pixels of data to determine the color of each image pixel. Instead, from what we've seen and read, the Lumia 920 has an 8-megapixel camera. What, if anything, "Pureview" means in that context is still up in the air...but we know for sure that this camera is NOTHING like the 808 Pureview's camera.
    09-05-2012 01:00 AM
  20. snowmutt's Avatar
    Until I get my grubby, greedy hands on the devices, see which one goes where, and see the prices on them, I am pumped on Samsung, Nokia and HTC (in that order) until they give me reason not to be.

    I will say that for those hoping from more from Nokia, relax. These are the first of many WP's they will release in the coming months. Sammy and HTC may need to see some more sales before they start developing some more, but Nokia will put out other devices. These are just the first ones, not the only ones.
    ALborntoride likes this.
    09-05-2012 01:01 AM
  21. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    It's confirmed that the name "Pureview" will be used for the 920's camera. What hasn't been confirmed is what that means here.

    Nokia recently dismissed rumors of a 42-megapixel or 21-megapixel camera in the 920, saying "it's not the megapixels, it's what you do with them." Or something like that. Ignoring the fact that having that many megapixels of raw data is what allowed the 808 Pureview to do what it does, by allowing seven pixels of data to determine the color of each image pixel. Instead, from what we've seen and read, the Lumia 920 has an 8-megapixel camera. What, if anything, "Pureview" means in that context is still up in the air...but we know for sure that this camera is NOTHING like the 808 Pureview's camera.
    Sorry for the side track, but isn't that a good thing regardless? I read what you wrote to mean that Nokia abstracted the technology to be applied to lower megapixel cameras to produce better on par image processing. Combine that with a really good 8 megapixel CMOS sensor and the photos should come out great, no?
    09-05-2012 01:31 AM
  22. Mitlov's Avatar
    Sorry for the side track, but isn't that a good thing regardless? I read what you wrote to mean that Nokia abstracted the technology to be applied to lower megapixel cameras to produce better on par image processing. Combine that with a really good 8 megapixel CMOS sensor and the photos should come out great, no?
    Well, you can't use multiple data points to determine the color of each image pixel if you have 8 megapixels of raw data to make an 8 megapixel image file. The very concept of the 808 Pureview doesn't work anymore when you have a one-to-one correspondence of raw-data-pixel input and image-pixel output. You can "abstract the technology" of the 808 Pureview to, say, a 21-megapixel camera, but you can't "abstract the technology" to a mere 8-megapixel camera.

    As for the quality of the components, you're assuming they'll all be excellent quality because of the Pureview name. But before the Lumia 900 hit consumers, we all assumed it's camera would be excellent quality because of the Karl Zeiss name. In practice, the pictures it took were notably inferior to pictures from the Galaxy S3's no-name 8-megapixel camera (which, for the record, is excellent in practice).

    So I'm open-minded but skeptical of this 8-megapixel "Pureview." I'd hate to see it be a repeat of the 900's "Karl Zeiss" camera...all name and hype and poor results.
    AngryNil likes this.
    09-05-2012 01:58 AM
  23. AngryNil's Avatar
    Before, they were hampered by WP7's meager hardware requirements. So this is the first time you could put a Samsung WP phone next to a Samsung Android flagship and say "the WP phone is just as good." That's different.
    But it's nothing to do with Samsung's commitment, they pretty much have to match the top WP8 specifications for their flagship or they'll be stomped by Nokia and HTC.

    "Karl Zeiss"
    Carl with a "C" :]
    Last edited by AngryNil; 09-05-2012 at 02:44 AM.
    09-05-2012 02:37 AM
  24. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Well, you can't use multiple data points to determine the color of each image pixel if you have 8 megapixels of raw data to make an 8 megapixel image file. The very concept of the 808 Pureview doesn't work anymore when you have a one-to-one correspondence of raw-data-pixel input and image-pixel output. You can "abstract the technology" of the 808 Pureview to, say, a 21-megapixel camera, but you can't "abstract the technology" to a mere 8-megapixel camera.
    Hmm do you have a more detailed break down of how their tech works? I read their published pdf and it sounded like it sounded like a process similar to producing HDR photos but instead of light exposures it's doing it with all the pixels of the sensor. So why wouldn't it work on just about any range of megapixels?

    It just means the resulting file isn't one-to-one like you said, but that's not the point of Pureview to begin with...so what's the detriment? The resulting photo theoretically should look great.

    Edit: Just re-read their whitepaper. I see what you're saying now. I guess we'll have to see tomorrow. I suppose they could do it with a lower input to output ratio but I guess that'd be pointless if the sensor isn't at a decent megapixel count to make use of more pixels for the oversampling. I suppose here's hoping that Nokia surprises us.
    Last edited by blehblehbleh; 09-05-2012 at 04:25 AM.
    09-05-2012 03:37 AM
  25. rdubmu's Avatar
    I agree. Better market share = more general interest =more apps and so on. And while it was Nokia who brought me to WP and I prefer their design, its good to have choices amongst different WP OEMs.
    I thought the Venue Pro was the best 1st Generation Device at the start, but future support totally sucked and the HD7 was the superior 1st Gen launch device.

    I hope that HTC crushes Nokia in terms of their device. I don't want more of the same. Nokia is in the lead because of their exclusive apps/marketplace. The design isn't something I personally like, the edges of my L900 didn't feel good in my hand. The Titan 2 is the best of the Post Mango Devices that has been released.

    I really hope that the Pure View Camera on the L920 is going to be better than the 900, anything can beat that phone, even my flipphone razer from 2004 (kidding of course).

    I bet HTC releases a upgrade to the Titan Line. Maybe a 20 mega pixle camera to boot.
    09-05-2012 11:59 AM
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