09-10-2012 10:04 AM
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  1. Reflexx's Avatar
    I've being hammering Nokia since they shown to fake their videos, that was Thursday, so it's being barely 3 days. I have a couple of questions.

    What makes the yet to be released Nokia 920 a must buy against the proven and by the time it comes out very affordable GS3 and HTC One X?
    Best night photos
    Best anti-blur
    Best video stabilization
    Best screen resolution
    Best screen in sunlight
    Best touch sensitivity
    Best screen refresh rate
    Best support
    Nokia exclusive lenses (Smart Shoot, Cinemagraph)
    Nokia apps

    What makes the phone a must buy compared to the yet to be released Samsung ATIV?
    See above

    What makes the phone a must buy against the Iphone 5 and it's massive app selection and proof of future support?
    See above

    And why should I trust Nokia to bring the best Windows Phone on the market when they had failed to brought their very best on to the phone? This isn't the time to half-as-s it.
    This IS their best non-niche phone


    Instead of calling me a hater just give me reasons as to why this underwhelming device is the next big thing and had Nokia acting all cocky.
    You've been given plenty of reasons that you ignore.

    Hey. It's okay to be a hater. You think Nokia is cocky, so you don't like them. That'd perfectly fine.

    Just don't pretend you don't already have a major personal bias that can make you make arguments that aren't exactly fair, logical, or consistent.

    The best way to hate is out in the open! At least people understand where you're coming from.
    wolf1891 and astraith like this.
    09-08-2012 12:09 PM
  2. Winterfang's Avatar
    Best night photos
    Best anti-blur
    Best video stabilization
    Best screen resolution
    Best screen in sunlight
    Best touch sensitivity
    Best screen refresh rate
    Best support
    Nokia exclusive lenses (Smart Shoot, Cinemagraph)
    Nokia apps



    Here is what their offer than the 920 doesn't.

    Bigger screen
    Bigger batteries
    Lighter devices
    Slimmer devices
    More, better and cheaper apps
    Cheaper devices
    and in GS3 case, SD card slot-removable battery and availability in all carriers.


    A possible better screen and camera would be great if the 920 already had all of the avoid. You don't need to be hate a company to know the 920 doesn't have what it takes.

    I don't hate Nokia, I was just as excited as everyone here just because I'm not forgiving their lies and applauding that underwhelming device, doesn't mean I'm against everything they do.

    I however have higher expectations out of them and they continue to disappoint.
    09-08-2012 12:35 PM
  3. mmacleodbrown's Avatar
    Winterfang

    One of the main reasons for liking the 920 or any WP8 phone will come when you switch to Win8 from Win7.
    The seamless integration between your desktop metro and your phone metro will pull in alot of users as it is something that google just doesn't have.
    Im not fussed about the camera, but I am fussed about cloud integration and a common environment between my desktop and my mobile device.
    I will be moving from a GS3 and Jellybean to WP8, so it must have something to tempt me

    As for Nokia, or Samsung or HTC - go with the manufacturer you like, I think nokia make good hardware, but it is a personal choice so choose the phone that makes you happy as at the end of the day no one else cares what you choose or like so make yourself happy with your choice
    09-08-2012 12:52 PM
  4. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    I've being hammering Nokia since they shown to fake their videos, that was Thursday, so it's being barely 3 days. I have a couple of questions...
    I had a lot more to say, but then I realized that this is going to go in circles as a giant p***ing contest with all the subjective qualities. So, here's what's left that is more quantifiable:

    Why trust Nokia? Because Nokia has actually done a good job for the Lumia line of bringing updates and apps and support for the devices. When there is a problem or criticism, they actually investigate, acknowledge, and resolve it. They don't turn around and blame the user for holding it wrong or force you to buy a case for it (that makes it bigger and bulkier than it already is, and makes it ridiculous looking while still not protecting it against screen shatters when you breath on it wrong). They don't release an update that breaks more than it fixes either, or that changes the way the entire device works.


    Are there criticisms to be made? Sure... why doesn't the 920 support SD cards? I don't know... I assume it was a cost and function decision. They want to push SkyDrive. But don't forget we don't have SD cards today at all, and SkyDrive doesn't solve our need today, so on the new devices we get DOUBLE the storage built-in AND we get SkyDrive AND *some* phones will throw in an SD card. Just happens that the Lumia doesn't.


    Now, the 820, that's a whole other issue. I do feel Nokia skimped on specs here, since wherever it goes won't have the 920 for a while. UNLESS, and this is a hypothetical right now, the 920 and 820 are going to all carriers eventually (after the AT&T exclusive for 920). If that happens, then it's clear they have high-end and budget devices. We probably won't see 720 and 620 in the states if that happens.

    At the end of the day, though, the same discussions you've asked show up on every Android discussion too. It's all about CHOICE. We go to the store (or online) and we pick the one that meets our needs, and we go for it.
    wolf1891 likes this.
    09-08-2012 12:58 PM
  5. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    Here is what their offer than the 920 doesn't.

    Bigger screen
    Bigger batteries
    Lighter devices
    Slimmer devices
    More, better and cheaper apps
    Cheaper devices
    and in GS3 case, SD card slot-removable battery and availability in all carriers.

    ...

    I don't hate Nokia, I was just as excited as everyone here just because I'm not forgiving their lies and applauding that underwhelming device, doesn't mean I'm against everything they do.

    I however have higher expectations out of them and they continue to disappoint.
    Subjective. Some people don't want/like bigger screens... 4.5", I think, will be my sweet spot. I feel like 4.7" on the Titan is too big, but the EVO's 4.3" (that I had previously) was still a little small for what I wanted.

    Objective. The battery in the 920 is already bigger than any device I can pick now and I get great battery life... and I don't need 2300mAh the way an Android device does, because Windows Phone isn't a "gas guzzler". Is it nice? Sure! It's a selling point. But let's not pretend that Nokia skimped when it's above and beyond what is offered now.

    Subjective. Unless you were at the event, you didn't get to hold it. You don't get to complain about thickness or weight until you hold a device and see how it feels in your hand. You can't compare it to the existing lineup. Personally, I liked the way it felt VERY much. It was lighter than my Titan, and it was more comfortable, because it was narrower and had the curved back. As light as an ATIV? No, likely not, but I personally dislike super-light devices.

    Apps ... I don't think it's at all accurate to say CHEAPER apps (free vs free can't get cheaper), although it's entirely fair to point out MORE apps. But that's subjective, because I have about 10 apps I care about and even those I could just as easily visit the web site. Most of the people I help don't use any apps beyond what the OS offers. It's a good selling point, though... you might have some apps that are must-have that I don't consider to be interesting at all.

    Cheaper devices ... Yes, but cheaper doesn't mean better, just less expensive, and in fact that typically means less quality. Plus you don't know what the Lumias or ATIV cost yet, so invalid hypothesis for now.

    I already addressed SD card in my other post.

    As for lying... they didn't lie. The press ASSUMED it was done on a 920, and Nokia's ad agency didn't advertise it wasn't... but Nokia DID admit it, and they have released proof of ACTUAL 920 results (of which I was a personal witness on Wednesday), and the camera results are valid. So calling them a liar at this point makes you look foolish, and I don't believe that is a fair way to describe you.
    tissotti, Winterfang and wolf1891 like this.
    09-08-2012 01:15 PM
  6. Winterfang's Avatar
    You make valid points.

    I guess the reason I'm so mad at them is because their flagship phone just manage to be worse than all my nightmares. It just thick me on all the wrong ways, while ignoring the one feature, the only thing I wanted from them.

    Like you said is subjective but I just don't know what focus groups are they listening though. Who asked for wireless charging? why not instead make a slimmer more sticking. device?

    Why make a bigger device with a smaller screen? I feel like they don't really know what the market wants and being someone that wants Windows Phone 8 to succeed and knowing that Nokia is a big part of making that true, it just rubs me the wrong way why the chose the 920 was their flagship.

    But like you said is subjective, maybe is like a GS3 case that people hated at first but after playing it, everyone opinions changed and became a massive success. But that's Samsung they know what they are doing.
    09-08-2012 02:23 PM
  7. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    ...Like you said is subjective but I just don't know what focus groups are they listening though. Who asked for wireless charging? why not instead make a slimmer more sticking. device?

    Why make a bigger device with a smaller screen? I feel like they don't really know what the market wants and being someone that wants Windows Phone 8 to succeed and knowing that Nokia is a big part of making that true, it just rubs me the wrong way why the chose the 920 was their flagship...
    Perhaps I'm confused... isn't the 920 screen bigger AND higher resolution than the existing options (notably the 900)? I think the 820's screen is now 4.3" up from 800's too. ATIV is bigger than the Titan even, but they went with standard HD resolution, so 920 beats them there too. I'm disappointed they didn't do HD on the 820 though... it's harder for me to recommend the 820 to people not on AT&T.

    As for wireless charging, please tell me you're not having nightmares about them deciding, "Hey, you know something that would make a nice feature? Wireless charging!" I can just picture the response, "OMG! **** YEAH! Oh wait... hang on... aren't you worried about giving Winterfang nightmares?" "Nah, it'll be fine... and if nightmares are to be had, they'll get over it when the ATIV comes out." "Heh, yeah, let Samsung deal with them!" :lol: (OK, sorry, I may have taken that too far!)

    UPDATE: I'm not bashing the Samsung though. I think when the releases happen, it's gonna be nice having choices out there. As long as there's more than one phone on AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon, it's gonna be a good thing.

    UPDATE 2: BTW, I just looked it up... The ATIV S measures 137.2 x 70.5 x 8.7mm and weighs 135g. The Lumia 920 is 130.3 x 70.8 x 10.7mm and weighs 185g. So weight is pretty big difference, but the other aspects are pretty close. Only 2mm thicker... quick, grab a ruler or tape measure, I'll wait for you... yep, that's all! Oh, and the 900... 11.5mm thick. So despite the curve, it's thinner! :)
    Last edited by GoodThings2Life; 09-08-2012 at 03:05 PM.
    wolf1891 likes this.
    09-08-2012 02:52 PM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    Here is what their offer than the 920 doesn't.

    Bigger screen
    Bigger batteries
    Lighter devices
    Slimmer devices
    More, better and cheaper apps
    Cheaper devices
    and in GS3 case, SD card slot-removable battery and availability in all carriers.


    A possible better screen and camera would be great if the 920 already had all of the avoid. You don't need to be hate a company to know the 920 doesn't have what it takes.

    I don't hate Nokia, I was just as excited as everyone here just because I'm not forgiving their lies and applauding that underwhelming device, doesn't mean I'm against everything they do.

    I however have higher expectations out of them and they continue to disappoint.
    No device has everything. That's why it's gray we have choices.

    But you specifically asked what the 920 has that would make people choose it above others. And the things I listed are just some of this reasons.

    But some people care about different things. That's fine.

    Why do you act like there is only one kind of customer?

    BTW Winterfang, I hope you know that when I say "hater", I mean it playfully. I don't want you to think I dislike you or anything.
    Last edited by Winning Guy; 09-08-2012 at 03:11 PM.
    wolf1891 likes this.
    09-08-2012 02:55 PM
  9. crystal_planet's Avatar
    I've being hammering Nokia since they shown to fake their videos, that was Thursday, so it's being barely 3 days. I have a couple of questions.

    What makes the yet to be released Nokia 920 a must buy against the proven and by the time it comes out very affordable GS3 and HTC One X?

    What makes the phone a must buy compared to the yet to be released Samsung ATIV?

    What makes the phone a must buy against the Iphone 5 and it's massive app selection and proof of future support?

    And why should I trust Nokia to bring the best Windows Phone on the market when they had failed to brought their very best on to the phone? This isn't the time to half-as-s it.

    Instead of calling me a hater just give me reasons as to why this underwhelming device is the next big thing and had Nokia acting all cocky.
    You are a Nokia hater. It is what it is. And you've been going off on them since way before that stupid "expose". You're like everyone else here that hates them. The only way you'd like Nokia is if they were to come with something that was magically taken from the future. The specs could be exactly (or even a little better) than any WP offering right now and they'd still stink up the place in your eyes. Let's face it - they don't have a chance and your mind is made up.

    I'm not going to give you any reasons why you should buy one brand over another. You know why? Because my reasons may not be the same as yours. And that's good enough for me.

    And that's the point. I'm not going to jump in and start hammering the Ativ or the HTC offerings because I have no basis to do so. I haven't been exposed to either - and when I do, I may even decide on either device and forgo Nokia entirely.

    As to the iPhone - well I simply hate Apple with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns. Part of it because they cruise on their rep and by all accounts there is nothing outstanding about 5 but it will continue to have the press on their knees. That and I always thought Jobs was a megalomaniac jackass who preached about design purity while stealing from others.
    09-09-2012 12:42 PM
  10. Winterfang's Avatar
    Crystal you are the one that made the decision of looking at me like a hater. I have reasons for my bashing and there's a lot of them. There's a point behind every post I make and I don't rant or ramble.

    You can't give me the benefit of the doubt and Then you say you hate Apple and call a deceased CEO a jackass. I mean Jesus Christ dude have some respect.
    09-09-2012 02:21 PM
  11. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Best night photos
    Nope. The Verge did a test with the Galaxy S III and iPhone 4S in "night mode" and saw photos of similar quality to the 920.

    Best anti-blur
    Not judging by the photos from The Verge. They were considerably blurrier than photos from other phones.

    Best video stabilization
    This feature doesn't even exist yet. Apart from one faked video and one non-verified video, it has never been demonstrated. When The Verge asked for a demo of the feature, Nokia refused, saying it's not yet ready.

    Best screen resolution
    By a nose.

    Best screen in sunlight
    That's a bit rich to say, having not seen it. I know Nokia made the same promise for my Lumia 900, and DID NOT deliver. The only way the 900 is readable in direct sunlight is if you turn off the automatic brightness and crank the brightness all the way up.

    Best touch sensitivity
    So they claim. But again, it hasn't been independently tested, and after their fake video and photo fiasco, it's hard to trust anything they say.

    Best screen refresh rate
    Ummm... what?

    Best support
    I wouldn't say that. Apple delivers support Nokia could only dream of delivering.

    Nokia exclusive lenses (Smart Shoot, Cinemagraph)
    The Carl Zeiss shooter in my Lumia 900 delivers far worse pictures than the "crappy" lens on my Radar 4G.

    Nokia apps
    I don't think they're compelling enough to choose a handset over.

    Then again, ALL of your points are speculation because the phone isn't priced nor released. And a lot of these promises look VERY familiar to those of us who were burned by the Lumia 900 fiasco.
    09-09-2012 02:23 PM
  12. smoledman's Avatar
    Nope. The Verge did a test with the Galaxy S III and iPhone 4S in "night mode" and saw photos of similar quality to the 920.



    Not judging by the photos from The Verge. They were considerably blurrier than photos from other phones.



    This feature doesn't even exist yet. Apart from one faked video and one non-verified video, it has never been demonstrated. When The Verge asked for a demo of the feature, Nokia refused, saying it's not yet ready.



    By a nose.



    That's a bit rich to say, having not seen it. I know Nokia made the same promise for my Lumia 900, and DID NOT deliver. The only way the 900 is readable in direct sunlight is if you turn off the automatic brightness and crank the brightness all the way up.



    So they claim. But again, it hasn't been independently tested, and after their fake video and photo fiasco, it's hard to trust anything they say.



    Ummm... what?



    I wouldn't say that. Apple delivers support Nokia could only dream of delivering.



    The Carl Zeiss shooter in my Lumia 900 delivers far worse pictures than the "crappy" lens on my Radar 4G.



    I don't think they're compelling enough to choose a handset over.

    Then again, ALL of your points are speculation because the phone isn't priced nor released. And a lot of these promises look VERY familiar to those of us who were burned by the Lumia 900 fiasco.
    So basically you're saying that in night mode those other phones take better pictures then the 920. You're also saying that the 920 takes blurrier pictures then the other phones. So what you're really saying is the 920 is an utter fraud when it comes to PureView?
    09-09-2012 03:05 PM
  13. Big Supes's Avatar
    ^ Yep, that's an interesting assessment. . .
    09-09-2012 03:06 PM
  14. Winterfang's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure that's what he is saying and you know what? Is hard to disagree.

    The Galaxy S3 night mode picture was a little darker yes but also way more focused. In the case of the 920 pureview is a meaningless name, just like Carl Seiss lens added nothing to the table in the 900.
    09-09-2012 03:08 PM
  15. brmiller1976's Avatar
    So far, I have seen NOTHING to substantiate Nokia's claims that they have a camera revolution on their hands with the Lumia 920. It's all been smoke-n-mirrors in carefully controlled situations.

    The Lumia 900 was supposed to lead the way with its camera too. Carl Zeiss optics, phones finally replacing DSLRs, etc., remember all the hype?

    When it shipped, it was dreadful.

    The only Windows Phone that takes worse pictures than the Lumia 900 is the Dell Venue Pro. The Titan II blows the 900 out of the water.

    We'll know for sure if Nokia can deliver when they have hardware that:

    1) Reviewers can use without people hovering over them;
    2) Reviewers can put through their OWN tests;
    3) End users can validate as better.

    Until then, I see NO reason to take any of Nokia's hype seriously.

    That they felt the need to fake videos and photos and not come completely clean with reviewers is also revealing.

    Fool me once, shame on me, etc., etc., etc.
    09-09-2012 03:12 PM
  16. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure that's what he is saying and you know what? Is hard to disagree.

    The Galaxy S3 night mode picture was a little darker yes but also way more focused. In the case of the 920 pureview is a meaningless name, just like Carl Seiss lens added nothing to the table in the 900.
    A little darker? Are you kidding? All the ones I've seen were crap!

    Anyway, it's gonna be fun taking and seeing comparison shots when everything is available. GS3 vs IP5 vs NL920 in a Triple Threat Match!
    09-09-2012 03:23 PM
  17. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Anyway, it's gonna be fun taking and seeing comparison shots when everything is available. GS3 vs IP5 vs NL920 in a Triple Threat Match!
    And the winner, as usual, will be a handset by HTC. :)
    09-09-2012 03:25 PM
  18. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    So far, I have seen NOTHING to substantiate Nokia's claims that they have a camera revolution on their hands with the Lumia 920. It's all been smoke-n-mirrors in carefully controlled situations.
    I guess you didn't see the video in the other thread.



    Or smoke and mirrors? And I'd like to know how since you seem like you do.
    09-09-2012 03:28 PM
  19. Winterfang's Avatar
    A little darker? Are you kidding? All the ones I've seen were crap!

    Anyway, it's gonna be fun taking and seeing comparison shots when everything is available. GS3 vs IP5 vs NL920 in a Triple Threat Match!
    Lumia 920



    Galaxy S3 Night mode



    Is brighter yes but is not revolutionary.
    Last edited by Winterfang; 09-09-2012 at 03:37 PM.
    09-09-2012 03:30 PM
  20. crystal_planet's Avatar
    Crystal you are the one that made the decision of looking at me like a hater. I have reasons for my bashing and there's a lot of them. There's a point behind every post I make and I don't rant or ramble.

    You can't give me the benefit of the doubt and Then you say you hate Apple and call a deceased CEO a jackass. I mean Jesus Christ dude have some respect.
    Your reasons for disliking Nokia are your own and you are welcome to them. Absolutely. Some of them are legitimate but stuff like "But what does Nokia knows about design? They think people will buy a Yellow phone." makes me think you're just bashing for bashing's sake. I'll give you "hater" maybe a touch too harsh, but you're not even minded in your criticisms either.

    As to the Jobs thing - first: respect is earned. Second what the **** has the fact the man is dead have anything to do with what I said? He doesn't get a pass because he is no longer with us. I never said I was glad he was dead - and I'm not.

    Just so as you know: I am an Apple hater. I don't try to come across as reasonable or fair about my bashing - and yet - I still acknowledge the game changing aspects of that company.
    09-09-2012 03:33 PM
  21. blehblehbleh's Avatar

    Is brighter yes but is not revolutionary.
    Heh exactly wtf are you expecting out of a camera phone? To me that 920 shot looks great. Just looking at the bark on the tree and the seam in the chick's jeans you can tell it's clearer than the GS3.
    09-09-2012 03:39 PM
  22. Big Supes's Avatar
    Lumia 920

    Click to view quoted image


    Galaxy S3 Night mode

    Click to view quoted image


    Is brighter yes but is not revolutionary.
    Wow, the L920 shot looks great compared to the GSIII! :)
    09-09-2012 03:41 PM
  23. GoodThings2Life's Avatar
    Lumia 920

    Click to view quoted image


    Galaxy S3 Night mode

    Click to view quoted image


    Is brighter yes but is not revolutionary.
    Now, I realize I have poor vision (I'm almost legally blind without my glasses), but with them on I'm about 20/25 vision, and I'm pretty sure from those two samples that the details on the Lumia photo are much clearer... especially the tree bark depth and woman figure is crisper (although it could be the difference in wearing the red vs the blue).

    I'm interested in hearing your perspective on why the other is clearer in case I'm missing something...
    09-09-2012 03:48 PM
  24. Winterfang's Avatar
    Now, I realize I have poor vision (I'm almost legally blind without my glasses), but with them on I'm about 20/25 vision, and I'm pretty sure from those two samples that the details on the Lumia photo are much clearer... especially the tree bark depth and woman figure is crisper (although it could be the difference in wearing the red vs the blue).

    I'm interested in hearing your perspective on why the other is clearer in case I'm missing something...
    Well the glasses is a good look, at least on your avatar XD.

    The clearer images I'm referring are to the Galaxy S3 shots without the night mode. Since the nightmode has the aperture on more time, you tend to move the camera and the end result are brighter but blurrier pictures.

    As the case with the Nightmode on the GS3, Nokia moving lens tecnology is supposed to fix that, thanks to their amazing stabilization yet... Verge said that it still took a relative steady hand to take a great picture and they still had some blur. They also complained about the pictures being too bright.

    So that image stabilization doesn't seem to do that much, compared to the likes of the GS3.

    And they certainly don't look like this.

    09-09-2012 04:18 PM
  25. Big Supes's Avatar
    Well the glasses is a good look, at least on your avatar XD.

    The clearer images I'm referring are to the Galaxy S3 shots without the night mode.
    Take away the additional lighting and you might see a bigger difference.
    09-09-2012 04:23 PM
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