09-06-2012 08:54 AM
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  1. cckgz4's Avatar
    That's exactly what I'd call our fan base: insecure
    09-06-2012 12:36 AM
  2. Mitlov's Avatar
    A question ... why is it so important to release a device very soon after announcement? I th ought in the U.S., most people are on two year contracts and need to wait anyway till the contract ends? Or is the number of people who buy a phone out of contract so high it matters? (I was always wondering about the same thing when seeing pictures of people queueing up for an iPhone .. have their contracts simultanously ended at the same time?)
    This is it for me. I'm up for a new device in March 2013. I'm not breaking my contract to buy one unsubsidized. I know exactly what a Q4 2012 release means, and I don't need the exact day.

    The MS foot-dragging on getting WP8 to developers concerns me, but the lack of pricing and release dates from Nokia doesn't.
    Luminatic likes this.
    09-06-2012 02:05 AM
  3. pjs37's Avatar
    A question ... why is it so important to release a device very soon after announcement? I th ought in the U.S., most people are on two year contracts and need to wait anyway till the contract ends? Or is the number of people who buy a phone out of contract so high it matters? (I was always wondering about the same thing when seeing pictures of people queueing up for an iPhone .. have their contracts simultanously ended at the same time?)
    Actually Apple has gotten good at timing it just right so most people are ready for a new iPhone. The off years are minor bumps that those who just got a new iphone will be ok waiting for another year and they will get most of the new OS features in that launch but those who got the previous evolution year are definitely ready for a new device because nows theirs looks old and outdated but hey you can get this newer version of last years one! For the folks who get the major revisions its like the following year new OS features you can't get with your now almost two year old device but hey look at that you can get an upgrade! Well here is a new device for you and its so different!

    As for why its important to do it soon after announcement most people have the attention spans of gnats and will move on to the next big thing very quickly. The big media events gets the attention of the news outlet for that day and a few days after and that's it. When the Surface was announced people are work kept asking me about it. Now? No one cares they are waiting for the Kindle Fire or the mythical iPad Mini which I still don't think is coming.
    Luminatic likes this.
    09-06-2012 05:41 AM
  4. pjs37's Avatar
    I don't get why a lot of WP fans have such an underdog, insecure attitude where to them every little detail means doom for WP. Just look at the Droid announcements today - they were a lot more underwhelming than Nokia's launch so take some positive from that.
    Well for me its because 1) Nokia can easily fail and disappear in a short span and short of MS buying them out which may cause all sorts of other issues they don't have wiggle room to screw up. On the flip side they are the company that can help Windows Phone as a platform take off because all the other partners haven't shown quite the same level of excitement or innovation as Nokia.

    2) I want Windows Phone to take off because when it does the whole environment will benefit from it. We will get quality apps from "essential" businesses like our banks and stores we go to, and maybe I will stop feeling like every official app is always two-three steps behind their iPhone and Android effort. I also want it to take off because I can see where MS is going with this and I think its exciting but it will only really work if their tablets, PCs, and Windows Phone devices are all succeed in making a complete eco-system for the end user and completely change the face of Windows Software Development. IMO.
    09-06-2012 05:50 AM
  5. andrelamont's Avatar
    So, lack of commitment from carriers because those same carriers have yet to price it? Really? Please stop
    Um, no that's not how it works. Nokia doesn't just say "ok here is the price, now take our phone and sell it!"
    I have followed Charlie Kindel while he was at MS and even after he left and one of his tasks was carrier relationships so if he says the reason NOKIA has not revealed the pricing b/c of lack of commitment from carriers than I would lean towards his analysis.

    I mean what other reason could their be for not revealing something as simple as the price of the phone? We know in the US brand new tier 1 phones cost $200 or $300 with the carrier footing the bill for the rest of the cost of the phone. End users pay $200, Carriers pay the rest of the price. This is problem where the serious comment comes from. Carrier X will do whats best for them and will not eat profits (cough Sprint ) unless they have to for a phone. Eating more profits means they are serious about selling phone X because they will lose customers if they dont

    Perhaps they are still negotiating how much the rest of the bill will be. NOKIA doesnt have the leverage of Apple so it would be hard for them to say "Carriers, you pay the remaining $499 for this product"

    Personally I believe that the pricing hasn't been revealed because they are still negotiating the price (not customers ) but carriers. Verizon, has all the leverage and they know NOKIA/WP8 needs them so I am guessing they are asking for more.

    They can literally tell NOKIA they will only subsidize X$ and Nokia will unfortunately for this round say....ok.
    09-06-2012 06:07 AM
  6. andrelamont's Avatar
    ...I don't get why a lot of WP fans have such an underdog, insecure attitude where to them every little detail means doom for WP. Just look at the Droid announcements today - they were a lot more underwhelming than Nokia's launch so take some positive from that.
    As a 2x owner of a WP7 I absolutely love the OS and if MS never released another update I would most likely(?) keep my phone for several years. It just works for my usage scenarios.

    But, even I can see that customers are not buying this product. The best product sometimes does not win.

    Insecure? after 2 years and only having 5% of the market (at best ) can do that to a person. I've been a Cleveland Browns fan all my life and man you want to talk about a doomsday mentality:) Losing does that to you....better yet HISTORY does that to you. History allows you predict (reasonably) the future (well...sometimes).


    Stagnating at 4-5% of the market since late 2010 doesnt make one strut around puffing their chest out. It means there's a real chance the OEM will move on to another OS and even the ones you did have may not put out their best effort.

    Insecure? Maybe..., but perhaps is just low level concern due to low sells. I owned 2 Zune 30's and 1 Zune 80 and even a Zune HD and I will tell you flat out it was better than my stolen iPod Classic in 2012 ( yes it still hurts..sniff). But being better didn't translate to sales and the product was canceled.

    Concerned...Yes. 2010, WP7 was expected to have better sales, Mango was supposed to have an impact on sales. Nokia Lumia 900 was getting rave reviews and winning the CES 2010 smartphone award and the rave reviews should have had an impact on sales.

    Nokia's Rolling thunder ad campaing was supposed to make a difference and it did not. They spent more money on this ad campaign then they ever did in their history. This is a cause for concern and I think its legitimate to question the hardware, OS and marketing at this point because whatever they WERE doing...its hasn't worked in an impactful way.

    So I think some wpcentral users are just raising an eyebrow because we all know that if you keep doing what you've been doing...you'll get the same results.
    Last edited by andrelamont; 09-06-2012 at 07:03 AM. Reason: typos and spelling...ugh 'Me' hate english
    09-06-2012 07:01 AM
  7. andrelamont's Avatar
    light hearted break here

    2% or 80% marketshare, release 2day or 2014, paper launch or real launch. There is no way in h*ll, I am going to this!

    (from motorola press event Sept 5,2012)



    What the heck is that? yikes!
    09-06-2012 08:20 AM
  8. PG2G's Avatar
    I think it's more likely that Microsoft is saving pricing, carrier, and release information for a later date. How can he assume carriers aren't committed when we they are already committing to have multiple WP phones? How about the Nokia Lumia 822 already showing up in Verizon's records? How about the fact that Samsung didn't announce this information either?
    09-06-2012 08:22 AM
  9. Luminatic's Avatar
    Actually Apple has gotten good at timing it just right so most people are ready for a new iPhone. The off years are minor bumps that those who just got a new iphone will be ok waiting for another year and they will get most of the new OS features in that launch but those who got the previous evolution year are definitely ready for a new device because nows theirs looks old and outdated but hey you can get this newer version of last years one! For the folks who get the major revisions its like the following year new OS features you can't get with your now almost two year old device but hey look at that you can get an upgrade! Well here is a new device for you and its so different!

    As for why its important to do it soon after announcement most people have the attention spans of gnats and will move on to the next big thing very quickly. The big media events gets the attention of the news outlet for that day and a few days after and that's it. When the Surface was announced people are work kept asking me about it. Now? No one cares they are waiting for the Kindle Fire or the mythical iPad Mini which I still don't think is coming.
    Thanks for your explanation ... so people like me who evaluate already existing phones, compare the pros and cons (The real ones, not the ones presented by the companies), and decide for what suits them best, are a minority? What do you think?

    (very offtopic now ... the only phone I automatically bought without evaluating was such a letdown that I will never again decide for a phone before evaluating it properly)
    09-06-2012 08:30 AM
  10. rockstarzzz's Avatar
    The person who mentioned the surface nailed it. No release date was announced for that, but there is huge buzz over those tablets and a **** of a lot of anticipation for them.




    Agreed. In fact i've read a lot of nonsensical rambling all day on this board about release dates and pricing and a whole load of other crap. I've read positive thoughts about these Nokia phones on other boards where there is a general pro-Android, anti anything else attitude. We know WP8 is coming in late October, early November so expecting anything now was foolish.

    I don't get why a lot of WP fans have such an underdog, insecure attitude where to them every little detail means doom for WP. Just look at the Droid announcements today - they were a lot more underwhelming than Nokia's launch so take some positive from that.
    I can support your claim with this - Wow, Motorola's First Big Event Under Google Was A Total Dud - Business Insider

    However, look at the rise in share price for Google compared to NOK.

    Of course I did not expect NOK to go +20% but did not want it to go -15% either.
    Google however after announcement went +6% (hopefully not because of this flop show they had!)
    09-06-2012 08:37 AM
  11. pjs37's Avatar
    Thanks for your explanation ... so people like me who evaluate already existing phones, compare the pros and cons (The real ones, not the ones presented by the companies), and decide for what suits them best, are a minority? What do you think?

    (very offtopic now ... the only phone I automatically bought without evaluating was such a letdown that I will never again decide for a phone before evaluating it properly)
    I think you are exactly right. The people who evaluate and way the pros and cons are very much the minority. Its not just phones either they do with almost anything. When I was buying a TV I sat there read reviews checked specs etc. Most people go to Best Buy stare at a bunch look at the price and pick what they can afford and seems like the shiniest and best TV of the bunch. That's why you see all those stickers on bezels the more feature the better the TV is right? With phones its the same deal. They go to the store listen to the associates there and pick one that is in their price range and is the shiniest and best. MAYBE some of them read consumer reports first to see what they say but that's about it.

    I mean I get a kick out of it when I go with friends to help them buy something because I hear sales associates basically retell the sales pamphlet to them without actually knowing what they are saying but if you ask them for details they stumble.
    09-06-2012 08:49 AM
  12. tk-093's Avatar
    How is it that lowly Motorola new phones ( press conference today!) are able to release price, carrier and availability while Elop/Nokia can only say...soon.

    Actually, what did Moto announce? Their two "high end" phones, the RAZR HD and RAZR HD MAXX actually didn't get a release date, or price. They just said "holiday" season. The kicker is they won't even launch with Jelly Bean, how lame is that?

    They did announce a crappy RAZR M with price and dates, but that doesn't even seem better then the old RAZR Maxx. It was a very weird press conference.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    09-06-2012 08:54 AM
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