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View Poll Results: What makes a device AWESOME!?

Voters
38. You may not vote on this poll
  • Specifications

    2 5.26%
  • Performance

    36 94.74%
09-10-2012 12:38 PM
75 123
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  1. PG2G's Avatar
    It is a silly question because there are going to be so many interpretations, primarily due to this history of windows phone and the whole "our OS is smooth, we don't need dual cores" mantra.
    09-09-2012 09:16 PM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    I have a electronics engineering degree. I've been part of the initial design, prototype, testing, and released product, I understand how it works. I've agree when it's a mixture of both specs and performance.
    Then I'm at a loss as to why you have so far failed to explain, in technically coherent terms, what exactly it is you derive from hardware specs that you couldn't more reliably gain from actual performance measurements.
    09-09-2012 09:19 PM
  3. Simon Tupper's Avatar
    ... They are both essential, the only thing we see here is show offs that says exactly the same thing that everybody else and tries to break one's argument with the same argument but with a higher knowledge about it... This is why I said that this thread makes no sense...
    09-09-2012 09:23 PM
  4. selfcreation's Avatar
    Without the proper specs. We wouldn't have wp7.

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
    You mean wp8? Wp7 could run on 14year old hardware. Lol...

    Sent from my SGH-i917R using Board Express
    09-09-2012 09:27 PM
  5. a5cent's Avatar
    I think some of you might be misunderstanding the issue at hand (or maybe I am):

    As I understand XENOPHOS, his question is how we should evaluate hardware. Is it better to:

    a) make purchasing decisions based on spec-sheets
    b) make purchasing decisions based on the results of performance tests using actual apps/games

    Nobody is arguing that we don't need powerful hardware. However, all we currently have is option "a". The "Performance" camp is postulating that option "b" would be much more helpful for almost everyone involved. One way or another, option "a" obviously won't be going away.

    Android devices are sold and marketed almost exclusively based on option "a". WP has proven that you can get comparable or better performance out of inferior hardware, if the software is done right. Now imagine how that well-optimized WP code would run on equally powerful hardware. Wouldn't it be great if we could present those results with cold hard numbers to the entire smartphone market? That would be great, but all we're doing is engaging in these almost meaningless spec-sheet-based "******* contests" revolving around core count and RAM. The "Performance" camp thinks option "b" is the better way. That is what we are talking about.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-09-2012 at 09:58 PM.
    Reflexx likes this.
    09-09-2012 09:42 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    ... They are both essential, the only thing we see here is show offs that says exactly the same thing that everybody else and tries to break one's argument with the same argument but with a higher knowledge about it... This is why I said that this thread makes no sense...
    Sorry, you make no sense.
    09-09-2012 09:47 PM
  7. cckgz4's Avatar
    What if WP8 is not so great and apps keeps crashing? There is a lot of bashing towards Android, but with Ice Cream Sandwich, it became a very stable OS, WP7 was such a basic OS that if it had to crash all the time it would have been a shame...
    again that statement doesn't apply to everyone
    09-09-2012 10:16 PM
  8. Simon Tupper's Avatar
    Sorry, you make no sense.
    Oh yeah sorry about it, I forgot that you are the one who knows it all.
    09-09-2012 10:22 PM
  9. Reflexx's Avatar
    I don't think the purpose of the thread was to say that specs don't matter at all. It shouldn't have to be explained that hardware has to exist. And that existing hardware must have some sort of specs. We really shouldn't have to go over this.

    The real question is, when judging a phone, what should you do? What is the more reliable way of determining what will be a better phone for you to own?

    Should you look at a spec sheet and choose the phone with the "best specs"?

    Or should you look at how the phone performs, regardless of specs?

    It's really a simple question that people are choosing to tip toe around without actually answering.
    a5cent likes this.
    09-09-2012 10:31 PM
  10. AngryNil's Avatar
    Now WP8 devices are around the corner and they have higher specs and oh SURPRISE, real multitasking is coming...
    Real multitasking is not coming. No Android device is able to capably multitask properly without lagging. Jelly Bean, quad cores, doesn't matter. Microsoft and Apple value the end user experience, and they aren't introducing full, unrestricted background apps any time soon.

    Oh yeah sorry about it, I forgot that you are the one who knows it all.
    Almost a smart retort, with the only problem being that you have shown yourself to be significantly less knowledgeable than others on this forum.
    cckgz4 likes this.
    09-09-2012 10:39 PM
  11. Simon Tupper's Avatar
    I don't think the purpose of the thread was to say that specs don't matter at all. It shouldn't have to be explained that hardware has to exist. And that existing hardware must have some sort of specs. We really shouldn't have to go over this.

    The real question is, when judging a phone, what should you do? What is the more reliable way of determining what will be a better phone for you to own?

    Should you look at a spec sheet and choose the phone with the "best specs"?

    Or should you look at how the phone performs, regardless of specs?

    It's really a simple question that people are choosing to tip toe around without actually answering.
    You know what it makes me think of... when you try an iPhone, a high end android and a mid range WP7, the iPhone is superior in many ways(fluidity is one of them) and the high end android and mid range WP7 are similar in terms of fluidity, this is why I switched to WP7. I don't like the iPhone but just like my MacBook Pro is superior to my VAIO which have the same specs, the iPhone is superior to WP7 and Android. BUT! I count on high ends WP8 devices to compete with the iPhone in terms of performance.
    09-09-2012 10:44 PM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    Real multitasking is not coming. No Android device is able to capably multitask properly without lagging. Jelly Bean, quad cores, doesn't matter. Microsoft and Apple value the end user experience, and they aren't introducing full, unrestricted background apps any time soon.
    Yes, absolutely correct (this is my substitute for "liking" your post which I felt might be viewed as too inflammatory)!
    AngryNil likes this.
    09-09-2012 10:52 PM
  13. Simon Tupper's Avatar
    Real multitasking is not coming. No Android device is able to capably multitask properly without lagging. Jelly Bean, quad cores, doesn't matter. Microsoft and Apple value the end user experience, and they aren't introducing full, unrestricted background apps any time soon.


    Almost a smart retort, with the only problem being that you have shown yourself to be significantly less knowledgeable than others on this forum.
    Do you ever do something else than replying to my posts in a despicable way?
    09-09-2012 10:53 PM
  14. cckgz4's Avatar
    My boyfriend's iPhone 4 runs slower than mine especially in boot time, fluidity, and app loading. If I were to take my own scenario and say it's true across the board, that's generalizing. No way you can account for everyone's experience
    09-09-2012 10:55 PM
  15. eric12341's Avatar
    Let's hold back from the personal insults towards each other based on how much we may or may not know. We can learn different things from each other and have a debate without being insulting to others.

    My vote is performance, the many Android 2.x phones with dual cores being outperformed by WP phones with single core are an example of this.
    Simon Tupper likes this.
    09-09-2012 10:57 PM
  16. Simon Tupper's Avatar
    My boyfriend's iPhone 4 runs slower than mine especially in boot time, fluidity, and app loading. If I were to take my own scenario and say it's true across the board, that's generalizing. No way you can account for everyone's experience
    well the first month or so, they are all the same, it depends on what the user do with it and how much songs, apps, videos and other stuff are in it. Your iPhone might be in better condition too.
    09-09-2012 10:59 PM
  17. cckgz4's Avatar
    He has his jail broken and uses a lot of cydia apps and themes. I know why it runs slower. I was just giving a vague example as to how people can stretch a couple of experiences and turn it into a fact or so they call it
    a5cent likes this.
    09-09-2012 11:07 PM
  18. Simon Tupper's Avatar
    He has his jail broken and uses a lot of cydia apps and themes. I know why it runs slower. I was just giving a vague example as to how people can stretch a couple of experiences and turn it into a fact or so they call it
    I was talking about fresh out of the box phones, I always like to try my friends phones and compare them to my Titan II, but I don't believe that I am biased I see a lot of good things in other OS that I would like Windows Phone to have, but I post about it on the forum you guys tend to see it as an insult towards their preferred OS, so I just want to make it clear that all I want is point out the good points about other OS and talk about what WP8 could be.
    Last edited by Simon Tupper; 09-09-2012 at 11:30 PM.
    09-09-2012 11:25 PM
  19. Reflexx's Avatar
    You know what it makes me think of... when you try an iPhone, a high end android and a mid range WP7, the iPhone is superior in many ways(fluidity is one of them) and the high end android and mid range WP7 are similar in terms of fluidity, this is why I switched to WP7. I don't like the iPhone but just like my MacBook Pro is superior to my VAIO which have the same specs, the iPhone is superior to WP7 and Android. BUT! I count on high ends WP8 devices to compete with the iPhone in terms of performance.
    I've had a different experience.

    In terms of OS fluidity, I'd say that my low-end WP device was easily on par with iPhone, and easily trounced mid-range Android devices. (I haven't had much experience with high-end Androids).

    However, iPhone app performance appeared to have more consistent fluidity. Some WP apps lagged when they really shouldn't. I mainly blame the lack if a robust enough API to let developers create high performing apps using managed code.

    Allowing native code and having a more robust API for managed code should solve those problems. Oh yeah, and the better hardware will help too. :D
    09-10-2012 12:24 AM
  20. raj varma's Avatar
    Specifications are important with good performance
    Wp8 are going to satisfy...they have all specifications that are required for an app developer to give his best
    09-10-2012 12:47 AM
  21. AngryNil's Avatar
    If being "less knowledgeable" (which is a conclusion I reached purely through your own demonstration) is really that bad of an insult, I sincerely apologise. But false claims add up, and on an enthusiast site, they aren't going to go unnoticed.

    Do you ever do something else than replying to my posts in a despicable way?
    I have no business calling out valid points, you know. Only the bad ones :/
    Last edited by AngryNil; 09-10-2012 at 02:30 AM.
    09-10-2012 02:14 AM
  22. bear_lx's Avatar
    Facebook works fine of IOS. I would accept that, if they weren't better options of the other OS.

    I'm pretty sure Slacker Radio on Android doesn't take 5 minutes from opening the app to actually playing music.
    so dont use slacker. i agree it is awful on wp7. i use iheart radio. its better than pandora anyway. a far bigger library of music.

    my vote is preformance... although specs are important, they are overrated, as desciribed in another thread.

    and i know ICS is smooth, i have a galaxy nexus now, waiting for wp8. however, it seems every other tech site compares all new phones by specs. no one ever talks about overall preformance.
    Last edited by Bear lx; 09-10-2012 at 06:57 AM.
    09-10-2012 06:49 AM
  23. a5cent's Avatar
    however, it seems every other tech site compares all new phones by specs. no one ever talks about overall performance.
    Yes, unfortunately you are right. And do you know why? It's because the vast majority of us consumers don't demand more!

    Many review sites do nothing beyond copy&paste'ing the information from the manufacturers spec-sheets while converting them into verbose form and hoping their interpretations of those specs aren't too far off from actual performance. They lack any analysis or explanations of what those specs mean and often come with a large helping of subjective ramblings over design etc. These sites are performing a disservice to the smartphone buying community, as it makes the impression spec-sheets are a reasonable way of comparing devices. They should be publicly called out as often as possible.

    At the opposite end of the spectrum we have those who really understand the technology in our smartphones and attempt to make objective measurements of every aspect that impacts usability. These sites will talk much less about cores and more about benchmarks and include an analysis of what those numbers mean for day to day usage (better yet would be to test with actual apps and games). They won't ramble on about marketing buzzwords (retina, puremotion, etc.) but MEASURE display brightness, contrast, refresh rates and judge readability in sunlight. They will talk less about battery specs and use a test suite to MEASURE how many hours of browsing, talk, and standby time you can expect. They will talk less about LTE or "G's" and MEASURE data transfer rates and signal reception quality. Those guys deserve our clicks.

    Further up in this thread someone revealed his home PC's insane specs. Interestingly, it was precisely the guy who felt emphasizing specs over performance was the better way to go who finally said: "you should just have said how well it runs Crysis"! That is exactly what I'm talking about! Who cares how many cores something has (do you know how many cores your graphics card has?) when you could just say "nothing runs Crysis faster than my rig!". Review sites that test graphics cards do exactly that. They don't pile up graphics card specs... they run games at different resolutions and tell you the results, a.k.a. performance measurements.

    That is what we need to call for on every review site out there! Loud! And now!
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-10-2012 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Spelling
    09-10-2012 11:52 AM
  24. X0LARIUM's Avatar
    Yes, unfortunately you are right. And do you know why? It's because the vast majority of us consumers don't demand more!

    Many review sites do nothing beyond copy&paste'ing the information from the manufacturers spec-sheets while converting them into verbose form and hoping their interpretations of those specs aren't too far off from actual performance. They lack any analysis or explanations of what those specs mean and often come with a large helping of subjective ramblings over design etc. These sites are performing a disservice to the smartphone buying community, as it makes the impression spec-sheets are a reasonable way of comparing devices. They should be publicly called out as often as possible.

    At the opposite end of the spectrum we have those who really understand the technology in our smartphones and attempt to make objective measurements of every aspect that impacts usability. These sites will talk much less about cores and more about benchmarks and include an analysis of what those numbers mean for day to day usage (better yet would be to test with actual apps and games). They won't ramble on about marketing buzzwords (retina, puremotion, etc.) but MEASURE display brightness, contrast, refresh rates and judge readability in sunlight. They will talk less about battery specs and use a test suite to MEASURE (not copy of the spec sheet) how many hours of browsing, talk, and standby time you can expect. They will talk less about LTE or "G's" and MEASURE data transfer rates and signal reception quality. Those guys deserve our clicks.

    Further up in this thread someone revealed his home PC's insane specs. Interestingly, it was precisely the guy who felt emphasizing specs over performance was the better way to go who finally said: "you should just have said how well it runs Crysis"! That is exactly what I'm talking about! Who cares how many cores something has (do you know how many cores your graphics card has?) when you could just say "nothing runs Crysis faster than my rig!". Review sites that test graphics cards do exactly that. They don't pile up graphics card specs... they run games at different resolutions and tell you the results, a.k.a. performance measurements.

    That is what we need to call for on every review site out there! Loud! And now!
    Ur right too my friend...its sad but true and I blame Samsung...

    They are the ONLY ones who have "introduced" cores after cores and RAMs after RAMs...
    Useless buggers...resource hungry Android too is responsible to an extent...but people can believe what they want to believe in...

    I, and im sure most of us here, judging from the vote count, agree that its performance should sell phone....N.O.T specs...


    Sent from my DROID RaZr.
    09-10-2012 12:33 PM
  25. Reflexx's Avatar
    Specs are an easier indicator if you're comparing two devices using the exact same OS, and you're comparing similar parts.

    If you're comparing two devices running a Qualcomm dual-core Snapdragon S4 on WP8, you can pretty reliably say that the one with the higher clock speed will give you better performance.

    But when you start comparing single core vs dual core vs quad core from Qualcomm, TI, etc... then it's a whole different ball game. Even if they're all using the same OS. You can't just look at the numbers you see and come to an accurate conclusion. You really need to know details about each chip. Details that the typical consumer will have no idea how to interpret.
    09-10-2012 12:38 PM
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