09-14-2012 06:55 AM
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  1. Big Supes's Avatar
    Now I was just humoring him point. He said that Windows Phone 8 isn't an option because it hasn't come out. Which is technically true, the other poster rebuttal was that even is it isn't out yet is still an option. I'm saying that it can still be cancelled so is not really an option in a way.

    Of course, Microsoft can pull out a Palm.
    "Humour" being the operative word. :P

    I really can't take claims that "Wp8 isn't an option" seriously.
    09-09-2012 02:59 PM
  2. AngryNil's Avatar
    Maybe some people are just disappointed in what Nokia had to offer?
    Some sure are. But in my case, I was talking people who are predicting Nokia's doom or cursing them to **** for not including a microSD slot. That, is ridiculous.
    GoodThings2Life likes this.
    09-10-2012 02:28 AM
  3. Winterfang's Avatar
    Is it really that ridiculous? They are doing relative poorly in term of finances lately and things like MicroSD slot and other options are just nonsensical when you offer a thick device.
    09-10-2012 08:46 AM
  4. Big Supes's Avatar
    Is it really that ridiculous? They are doing relative poorly in term of finances lately and things like MicroSD slot and other options are just nonsensical when you offer a thick device.
    Speak for yourself, bud.

    Judging it against my old HD7 (which has slipped into my pocked with a silicon protector just fine for the last two years), I know it'll feel great in my pocket/hand.
    cedarlog likes this.
    09-10-2012 08:54 AM
  5. mmacleodbrown's Avatar
    Is it really that ridiculous? They are doing relative poorly in term of finances lately and things like MicroSD slot and other options are just nonsensical when you offer a thick device.
    It wasn't a technical choice, it was a design choice to leave out the SD card, just like you complaining about everything is a personal choice. If you dont like the nokia then go browse a different forum rather than constantly posting negativity because it doesn't meet what you want.
    I don't like the ATIV-S, but you don't see me posting endlessly about it, please give it a rest..
    Reflexx, wolf1891 and cedarlog like this.
    09-10-2012 09:03 AM
  6. Reflexx's Avatar
    Is it really that ridiculous? They are doing relative poorly in term of finances lately and things like MicroSD slot and other options are just nonsensical when you offer a thick device.
    Their stock price is low.

    But they've restructured and are much leaner than they once were.

    They've also got a good amount of operating cash.

    They're not going out of business in the next 12 mos.
    09-10-2012 09:05 AM
  7. Winterfang's Avatar
    It wasn't a technical choice, it was a design choice to leave out the SD card, just like you complaining about everything is a personal choice. If you dont like the nokia then go browse a different forum rather than constantly posting negativity because it doesn't meet what you want.
    I don't like the ATIV-S, but you don't see me posting endlessly about it, please give it a rest..
    This isn't a Nokia forum. If I wanted to troll I would visit the Nokia 920 subforum and complain there but that would be classless.

    Here however I'm free to complain about how they are making pretty much every mistake possible and bring a device that doesn't represent the best they have to offer and trying to pass it on as a great innovation.
    09-10-2012 09:06 AM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    It wasn't a technical choice, it was a design choice to leave out the SD card, just like you complaining about everything is a personal choice. If you dont like the nokia then go browse a different forum rather than constantly posting negativity because it doesn't meet what you want.
    I don't like the ATIV-S, but you don't see me posting endlessly about it, please give it a rest..
    Exactly.

    It's fine to hate Nokia for whatever personal reason.

    I dislike HTC because I've had bad experiences with their products, and I've been told by phone repair places that they see a lot of HTC and Motorola.

    But I'm not going to incessantly harp on it every other post.

    I'm also not going to believe that everyone must agree with my feelings about them.
    Last edited by Winning Guy; 09-10-2012 at 09:20 AM.
    wolf1891 and cedarlog like this.
    09-10-2012 09:10 AM
  9. Big Supes's Avatar
    This isn't a Nokia forum. If I wanted to troll I would visit the Nokia 920 subforum and complain there but that would be classless.

    Here however I'm free to complain about how they are making pretty much every mistake possible and bring a device that doesn't represent the best they have to offer and trying to pass it on as a great innovation.
    Just an observation, Winterfang...

    Constructive criticism always makes for a healthy conversation, but 90% of your posts are hot air, from a personal viewpoint. You may feel that Nokia are making every mistake in the book, X/Y/Z, but you really need to substantiate 'how' & 'why', and what your approach would have been. Without the latter, you're coming off as someone who is only interested in slagging off Nokia.

    Just my two pence.
    cedarlog and GoodThings2Life like this.
    09-10-2012 09:16 AM
  10. Winterfang's Avatar
    I had always gave a reason as to why, to every point.

    It gets disminished as either "my personal opinion" or "subjective" or just "plain hating" but hot air? man how can you say that? that cuts me deep.
    09-10-2012 09:20 AM
  11. cgk's Avatar
    I'm a Windows Phone advocate first and foremost. I'm not an employee of any tech company, but I'm extremely enthusiastic about the platform. When I find a product I really like, I absolutely rally behind it. Right now, my OEM preference is Nokia, but you need only read my thread about the experience I had at the launch event to understand why.

    I won't bash another Windows Phone product, however. It's a matter of us all being on the same team, after all.
    This is counter-productive to me - consumers should actively attack the short-comings and failures of products and switch at will to send economic signals to producers to improve their products. Buying products out of loyalty or keeping critiques to yourself sends completely the wrong message.

    The only team I am on is mine.
    cp2_4eva likes this.
    09-10-2012 09:21 AM
  12. Reflexx's Avatar
    I had always gave a reason as to why, to every point.

    It gets disminished as either "my personal opinion" or "subjective" or just "plain hating" but hot air? man how can you say that? that cuts me deep.
    I think he means a reason with substance.

    Instead of saying, "Not putting in PureView was stupid because they didn't bring their best" you could say, "According to.. (cite an article), the vast majority of WP have indicated that unless Nokia brings PureView, they are not interested."

    Then there is real substance to debate about.

    But making a statement that's just based on personal opinion over and over and over and over again doesn't leave anything for people to rebut except for your personal views.
    09-10-2012 09:25 AM
  13. Big Supes's Avatar
    I had always gave a reason as to why, to every point.

    It gets disminished as either "my personal opinion" or "subjective" or just "plain hating" but hot air? man how can you say that? that cuts me deep.
    Maybe I wasn't clear. To add, the reason people call you up on your posts is because you fail to state whether or not it's your opinion or fact. It's simple forum etiquette that eliminates confusion between 'opinions' and actual 'facts'.

    Didn't mean to cause offence with the "hot air" comment. It's just how I pigeon hole these types of posts (that lack substance) on forums. If I didn't value you as a fellow poster, I wouldn't make the effort to give advice. :)

    Hey, none of us are perfect. I'll shut up now. :D
    09-10-2012 09:31 AM
  14. Winterfang's Avatar
    Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

    Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

    They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

    But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.
    09-10-2012 09:32 AM
  15. Reflexx's Avatar
    This is counter-productive to me - consumers should actively attack the short-comings and failures of products and switch at will to send economic signals to producers to improve their products. Buying products out of loyalty or keeping critiques to yourself sends completely the wrong message.

    The only team I am on is mine.
    I can agree if the shortcoming or failure is a product defect or a bad customer service experience.

    I don't think it's good to bash because of design choices. Sure, you can let your opinion be known about how those design choices made you buy something else. Not "bashing".

    But I've been seeing a lot of bashing lately for design choices, which just comes off as spoiled and bratty to me.
    09-10-2012 09:34 AM
  16. Big Supes's Avatar
    Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

    Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

    They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

    But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.
    Personally, I was 'hoping' for the 21MP Pureview camera as I wasn't keen on the large sensor from the 808. After hearing about the 8MP rumour, I merely thought - if it's better than the rest of the competition, I'll take it. As things have turned out, the camera on the 920 looks pretty flippin' awesome, IMO.

    Out of curiosity, would you have been ok with a 13.9mm Nokia Lumia 920 if it had the 41MP Pureview lens out of the 808?
    cedarlog likes this.
    09-10-2012 09:38 AM
  17. cgk's Avatar
    I can agree if the shortcoming or failure is a product defect or a bad customer service experience.

    I don't think it's good to bash because of design choices. Sure, you can let your opinion be known about how those design choices made you buy something else. Not "bashing".

    But I've been seeing a lot of bashing lately for design choices, which just comes off as spoiled and bratty to me.
    But you've said so yourself - if they buy something else because they don't like the design choice that sends an economic message to the OEM - buying something that you don't particularly like because you feel you should 'support the team' is an intellectually bankrupt position and really quite scary when you consider it in detail - not unless you work for the OEM or have some other similar economic or stakeholder relationship.
    Winterfang likes this.
    09-10-2012 10:08 AM
  18. Reflexx's Avatar
    Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

    Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

    They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

    But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.
    Sure I want one. But I also try to be practical.

    With the amount of market share WP has, it wouldn't be very smart for Nokia to release a really awkwardly shaped device. There aren't enough niche buyers within the WP ecosystem to make it profitable.

    So, for a full 41mp PureView camera to make it to WP there will either need to be a lot more WP users, or the sensor will have to be shrunk down.

    Also, Nokia is working on trying to get the oversampling AND OIS into the same device in the future. That might be 2 or 3 yrs from now.
    09-10-2012 10:42 AM
  19. Reflexx's Avatar
    But you've said so yourself - if they buy something else because they don't like the design choice that sends an economic message to the OEM - buying something that you don't particularly like because you feel you should 'support the team' is an intellectually bankrupt position and really quite scary when you consider it in detail - not unless you work for the OEM or have some other similar economic or stakeholder relationship.
    That wasn't me by the way. I wouldn't buy something I didn't like.

    But I imagine that when someone wants to "support the team", it's because they actually like the OS. They're not buying something they dislike.
    09-10-2012 10:45 AM
  20. wolf1891's Avatar
    I was going write a response, but as I clicked "Quote" it occurred to me that he wouldn't bother listening, let alone understanding, so I've opted to make him the first on my "Ignore" list instead.

    I can respond to criticism and intelligently debate the merits of an OEM or feature request all day, but for anyone whose majority of post history is platform bashing all I can do is choose to disengage.
    agreed. the ignore list is a wonderful thing which has allowed me to continue coming here daily and participating in actual discussions about current/upcoming phones/OS versions without having to wade thru the tons of pointless negativity. It is sad though that I have had to use that feature of these forums at all since I would much prefer to hear the different opinions from EVERYONE... but when there are members who have nothing substantative to contribute but still insist on trying to force us all to accept their opinions as if they were facts... well, not really alot of other choices for me than the ignore list. :dry
    Last edited by wolf1891; 09-10-2012 at 11:06 AM.
    09-10-2012 10:58 AM
  21. wolf1891's Avatar
    Sure I want one. But I also try to be practical.

    With the amount of market share WP has, it wouldn't be very smart for Nokia to release a really awkwardly shaped device. There aren't enough niche buyers within the WP ecosystem to make it profitable.

    So, for a full 41mp PureView camera to make it to WP there will either need to be a lot more WP users, or the sensor will have to be shrunk down.

    Also, Nokia is working on trying to get the oversampling AND OIS into the same device in the future. That might be 2 or 3 yrs from now.
    well said!

    I really wanted a WP 808 when we first heard about Pureview but, from the beginning I knew that it was a niche device that would never sell in huge volumes until they could get the tech developed and refined to the point where that bulge was no longer present (didn't bother me but, I suspected it would turn off the vast majority that seems to expect smartphones to be a smooth-sided rectangular slab.

    So, after seeing what Nokia was able to give us for the 920, while dissapointing in relation to what the rampant rumors and speculation leading up to the event were suggesting we would see (for example, that 21mp number was being tossed around by more than a few folks as if it was a definite fact), I for one am quite impressed with what we are actually going to be able to get when the 920 goes on sale in November (the low-light capabilities actually matters alot more to me than a high MP count would).

    And, over the next year or two I fully expect we will see Nokia continue to offer more improvements/enhancements to the Pureview experience on their future WP offerings for us to enjoy.
    09-10-2012 11:27 AM
  22. cp2_4eva's Avatar
    This debate has me popping my popcorn and giggling like a little school girl. Don't get bent out of shape because of some distant human's opinion. At the end of the day, they should affect your worlds. Keep up the debating though!!!! I like to see how my inner thoughts stack yo against yours.
    09-10-2012 11:47 AM
  23. Winterfang's Avatar
    Personally, I was 'hoping' for the 21MP Pureview camera as I wasn't keen on the large sensor from the 808. After hearing about the 8MP rumour, I merely thought - if it's better than the rest of the competition, I'll take it. As things have turned out, the camera on the 920 looks pretty flippin' awesome, IMO.

    Out of curiosity, would you have been ok with a 13.9mm Nokia Lumia 920 if it had the 41MP Pureview lens out of the 808?
    Negative. No half-assing, I already know Nokia has that technology and what is capable of.

    What if the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 had a 3.5 screen? Then Samsung will hype it saying.

    "Well you see, the note part of the name wasn't because of the screen size but because of this new memo technology that doesn't have anything to do with the actual size of the previous device".

    Wouldn't you scream BS? the same is with the 920, the shouldn't had used the Pureview name since people will automatically expect that big powerful sensor.

    And if we are talking about niche, what does a Yellow Phone do you think is? A black Real pureview phone doesn't necessarily has to look bad.
    09-10-2012 01:30 PM
  24. crystal_planet's Avatar
    Negative. No half-assing, I already know Nokia has that technology and what is capable of.

    What if the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 had a 3.5 screen? Then Samsung will hype it saying.

    "Well you see, the note part of the name wasn't because of the screen size but because of this new memo technology that doesn't have anything to do with the actual size of the previous device".

    Wouldn't you scream BS? the same is with the 920, the shouldn't had used the Pureview name since people will automatically expect that big powerful sensor.

    And if we are talking about niche, what does a Yellow Phone do you think is? A black Real pureview phone doesn't necessarily has to look bad.
    Good point. I'd probably choose another vendor at that point if it was important to me. If it wasn't then I'd probably not care that much. Those who are expecting the 41 mp pureview are apt to go elsewhere if that turns them off enough sure, but if a camera is important to them and Nokia is the best out there (and I'm not saying it is), going to someone else would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.


    Also, what is up with your obsession with the "yellow phone"?
    09-10-2012 03:12 PM
  25. blehblehbleh's Avatar
    Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

    Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

    They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

    But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.
    Nope not really expecting it. Rumors are rumors. If it were true that would've been awesome of course. Really you can only put so much faith in rumors and mockups.

    Besides it was reasonably known Nokia placed the 808 on a diminish mobile OS. I don't know why but they went ahead. To have placed something similar on a WP8 device would've pissed away all the money put forward and divested any interest in that product.

    Plus, Nokia wants, must even, make their WP8 accessible to everyone. Having a flag ship phone with large CMOS sensor hump in a world that treasures thin and light, I think, would've amounted to suicide (except you I'm guessing).

    So really Winterfang, and sorry for this eric12341, you're just upset and taking it out on Nokia because what came to pass didn't meet your own hyped up expectations and personal preferences.
    09-10-2012 04:03 PM
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