ok.. So who is fed up of the PAID nokia knocking?

[cgk]

I'm a Windows Phone advocate first and foremost. I'm not an employee of any tech company, but I'm extremely enthusiastic about the platform. When I find a product I really like, I absolutely rally behind it. Right now, my OEM preference is Nokia, but you need only read my thread about the experience I had at the launch event to understand why.

I won't bash another Windows Phone product, however. It's a matter of us all being on the same team, after all.

This is counter-productive to me - consumers should actively attack the short-comings and failures of products and switch at will to send economic signals to producers to improve their products. Buying products out of loyalty or keeping critiques to yourself sends completely the wrong message.

The only team I am on is mine.

 

[Reflexx]

I had always gave a reason as to why, to every point.

It gets disminished as either "my personal opinion" or "subjective" or just "plain hating" but hot air? man how can you say that? that cuts me deep.

I think he means a reason with substance.

Instead of saying, "Not putting in PureView was stupid because they didn't bring their best" you could say, "According to.. (cite an article), the vast majority of WP have indicated that unless Nokia brings PureView, they are not interested."

Then there is real substance to debate about.

But making a statement that's just based on personal opinion over and over and over and over again doesn't leave anything for people to rebut except for your personal views.

 

[Big Supes]

I had always gave a reason as to why, to every point.

It gets disminished as either "my personal opinion" or "subjective" or just "plain hating" but hot air? man how can you say that? that cuts me deep.

Maybe I wasn't clear. To add, the reason people call you up on your posts is because you fail to state whether or not it's your opinion or fact. It's simple forum etiquette that eliminates confusion between 'opinions' and actual 'facts'.

Didn't mean to cause offence with the "hot air" comment. It's just how I pigeon hole these types of posts (that lack substance) on forums. If I didn't value you as a fellow poster, I wouldn't make the effort to give advice.

Hey, none of us are perfect. I'll shut up now.

 

[Winterfang]

Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.

 

[Reflexx]

This is counter-productive to me - consumers should actively attack the short-comings and failures of products and switch at will to send economic signals to producers to improve their products. Buying products out of loyalty or keeping critiques to yourself sends completely the wrong message.

The only team I am on is mine.

I can agree if the shortcoming or failure is a product defect or a bad customer service experience.

I don't think it's good to bash because of design choices. Sure, you can let your opinion be known about how those design choices made you buy something else. Not "bashing".

But I've been seeing a lot of bashing lately for design choices, which just comes off as spoiled and bratty to me.

 

[Big Supes]

Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.

Personally, I was 'hoping' for the 21MP Pureview camera as I wasn't keen on the large sensor from the 808. After hearing about the 8MP rumour, I merely thought - if it's better than the rest of the competition, I'll take it. As things have turned out, the camera on the 920 looks pretty flippin' awesome, IMO.

Out of curiosity, would you have been ok with a 13.9mm Nokia Lumia 920 if it had the 41MP Pureview lens out of the 808?

 

[cgk]

I can agree if the shortcoming or failure is a product defect or a bad customer service experience.

I don't think it's good to bash because of design choices. Sure, you can let your opinion be known about how those design choices made you buy something else. Not "bashing".

But I've been seeing a lot of bashing lately for design choices, which just comes off as spoiled and bratty to me.

But you've said so yourself - if they buy something else because they don't like the design choice that sends an economic message to the OEM - buying something that you don't particularly like because you feel you should 'support the team' is an intellectually bankrupt position and really quite scary when you consider it in detail - not unless you work for the OEM or have some other similar economic or stakeholder relationship.

 

[Reflexx]

Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.

Sure I want one. But I also try to be practical.

With the amount of market share WP has, it wouldn't be very smart for Nokia to release a really awkwardly shaped device. There aren't enough niche buyers within the WP ecosystem to make it profitable.

So, for a full 41mp PureView camera to make it to WP there will either need to be a lot more WP users, or the sensor will have to be shrunk down.

Also, Nokia is working on trying to get the oversampling AND OIS into the same device in the future. That might be 2 or 3 yrs from now.

 

[Reflexx]

But you've said so yourself - if they buy something else because they don't like the design choice that sends an economic message to the OEM - buying something that you don't particularly like because you feel you should 'support the team' is an intellectually bankrupt position and really quite scary when you consider it in detail - not unless you work for the OEM or have some other similar economic or stakeholder relationship.

That wasn't me by the way. I wouldn't buy something I didn't like.

But I imagine that when someone wants to "support the team", it's because they actually like the OS. They're not buying something they dislike.

 

[wolf1891]

I was going write a response, but as I clicked "Quote" it occurred to me that he wouldn't bother listening, let alone understanding, so I've opted to make him the first on my "Ignore" list instead.

I can respond to criticism and intelligently debate the merits of an OEM or feature request all day, but for anyone whose majority of post history is platform bashing all I can do is choose to disengage.

agreed. the ignore list is a wonderful thing which has allowed me to continue coming here daily and participating in actual discussions about current/upcoming phones/OS versions without having to wade thru the tons of pointless negativity. It is sad though that I have had to use that feature of these forums at all since I would much prefer to hear the different opinions from EVERYONE... but when there are members who have nothing substantative to contribute but still insist on trying to force us all to accept their opinions as if they were facts... well, not really alot of other choices for me than the ignore list. :dry

 

[wolf1891]

Sure I want one. But I also try to be practical.

With the amount of market share WP has, it wouldn't be very smart for Nokia to release a really awkwardly shaped device. There aren't enough niche buyers within the WP ecosystem to make it profitable.

So, for a full 41mp PureView camera to make it to WP there will either need to be a lot more WP users, or the sensor will have to be shrunk down.

Also, Nokia is working on trying to get the oversampling AND OIS into the same device in the future. That might be 2 or 3 yrs from now.

well said!

I really wanted a WP 808 when we first heard about Pureview but, from the beginning I knew that it was a niche device that would never sell in huge volumes until they could get the tech developed and refined to the point where that bulge was no longer present (didn't bother me but, I suspected it would turn off the vast majority that seems to expect smartphones to be a smooth-sided rectangular slab.

So, after seeing what Nokia was able to give us for the 920, while dissapointing in relation to what the rampant rumors and speculation leading up to the event were suggesting we would see (for example, that 21mp number was being tossed around by more than a few folks as if it was a definite fact), I for one am quite impressed with what we are actually going to be able to get when the 920 goes on sale in November (the low-light capabilities actually matters alot more to me than a high MP count would).

And, over the next year or two I fully expect we will see Nokia continue to offer more improvements/enhancements to the Pureview experience on their future WP offerings for us to enjoy.

 

[cp2_4eva]

This debate has me popping my popcorn and giggling like a little school girl. Don't get bent out of shape because of some distant human's opinion. At the end of the day, they should affect your worlds. Keep up the debating though!!!! I like to see how my inner thoughts stack yo against yours.

 

[Winterfang]

Personally, I was 'hoping' for the 21MP Pureview camera as I wasn't keen on the large sensor from the 808. After hearing about the 8MP rumour, I merely thought - if it's better than the rest of the competition, I'll take it. As things have turned out, the camera on the 920 looks pretty flippin' awesome, IMO.

Out of curiosity, would you have been ok with a 13.9mm Nokia Lumia 920 if it had the 41MP Pureview lens out of the 808?

Negative. No half-assing, I already know Nokia has that technology and what is capable of.

What if the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 had a 3.5 screen? Then Samsung will hype it saying.

"Well you see, the note part of the name wasn't because of the screen size but because of this new memo technology that doesn't have anything to do with the actual size of the previous device".

Wouldn't you scream BS? the same is with the 920, the shouldn't had used the Pureview name since people will automatically expect that big powerful sensor.

And if we are talking about niche, what does a Yellow Phone do you think is? A black Real pureview phone doesn't necessarily has to look bad.

 

[crystal_planet]

Negative. No half-assing, I already know Nokia has that technology and what is capable of.

What if the Samsung Galaxy Note 2 had a 3.5 screen? Then Samsung will hype it saying.

"Well you see, the note part of the name wasn't because of the screen size but because of this new memo technology that doesn't have anything to do with the actual size of the previous device".

Wouldn't you scream BS? the same is with the 920, the shouldn't had used the Pureview name since people will automatically expect that big powerful sensor.

And if we are talking about niche, what does a Yellow Phone do you think is? A black Real pureview phone doesn't necessarily has to look bad.

Good point. I'd probably choose another vendor at that point if it was important to me. If it wasn't then I'd probably not care that much. Those who are expecting the 41 mp pureview are apt to go elsewhere if that turns them off enough sure, but if a camera is important to them and Nokia is the best out there (and I'm not saying it is), going to someone else would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Also, what is up with your obsession with the "yellow phone"?

 

[blehblehbleh]

Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.

Nope not really expecting it. Rumors are rumors. If it were true that would've been awesome of course. Really you can only put so much faith in rumors and mockups.

Besides it was reasonably known Nokia placed the 808 on a diminish mobile OS. I don't know why but they went ahead. To have placed something similar on a WP8 device would've pissed away all the money put forward and divested any interest in that product.

Plus, Nokia wants, must even, make their WP8 accessible to everyone. Having a flag ship phone with large CMOS sensor hump in a world that treasures thin and light, I think, would've amounted to suicide (except you I'm guessing).

So really Winterfang, and sorry for this eric12341, you're just upset and taking it out on Nokia because what came to pass didn't meet your own hyped up expectations and personal preferences.

 

[Reflexx]

Also, what is up with your obsession with the "yellow phone"?

I wonder what his issue is with the yellow phone also. I like it. I'm thinking I'll get yellow, and my wife will get
red.

Several tech outlets said they were unsure about the yellow until they actually saw it in person and found it to be really attractive.

 

[GoodThings2Life]

This is counter-productive to me - consumers should actively attack the short-comings and failures of products and switch at will to send economic signals to producers to improve their products. Buying products out of loyalty or keeping critiques to yourself sends completely the wrong message.

The only team I am on is mine.

On the contrary, it's counter productive to attack a product at all. It didn't do anything wrong, it didn't offend anyone. Attack a company run by humans, fine. Criticize a platform and product that you dislike, fine. But seriously? Attack/Bash/Hate a piece of plastic? That's straight up ignorant and nuts.

I will point out the differences in a product, and I'll constructively voice my opinions of a product-- good and bad-- but I'm not going to attack a product. Go read some of my posts. I call the Samsung Ativ things like "boring" and "me too" in terms of design, but not once have I criticized the specs.

Even in the case of Apple, I only criticize the devices, but I call fanatics of Apple "Appleites", and I constructively point out that the iPhone's improvements are barely evolutionary and make fun of Apple for calling it magical or revolutionary in any way, shape or form.

Finally, every device represented on this forum is a Windows Phone device, which means that-- aside from OEM-specific apps like the Nokia apps-- we all have largely the same experience. I choose to put Windows Phone platform ahead of any carrier or OEM.

agreed. the ignore list is a wonderful thing which has allowed me to continue coming here daily and participating in actual discussions about current/upcoming phones/OS versions without having to wade thru the tons of pointless negativity. It is sad though that I have had to use that feature of these forums at all since I would much prefer to hear the different opinions from EVERYONE... but when there are members who have nothing substantative to contribute but still insist on trying to force us all to accept their opinions as if they were facts... well, not really alot of other choices for me than the ignore list. :dry

Precisely!

 

[Winterfang]

Are you telling me that nobody else but me was expecting the 808 on a Windows Phone 8 devices?

Because I'm pretty sure from the moment the device was announced, everyone expect it Nokia to put out the same camera on the next generation of Windows Phone 8 devices.

They were mock ups, the word Windows Phone probably appeared on most tech blogs when talking first about the device.

But sure, I'm the only person in the world that wanted a real Pureview Windows Phone 8 device. Nobody else, just me.

Good point. I'd probably choose another vendor at that point if it was important to me. If it wasn't then I'd probably not care that much. Those who are expecting the 41 mp pureview are apt to go elsewhere if that turns them off enough sure, but if a camera is important to them and Nokia is the best out there (and I'm not saying it is), going to someone else would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Also, what is up with your obsession with the "yellow phone"?

The yellow phone argument is against the point that Nokia shouldn't risk losses by making a niche product like a Pureview Windows Phone. When they have their flagship device coming in bright yellow.

Now I ask you, how many bright yellow phones had you seen coming out this year? I've seen two Galaxy Beam and Mini 2, both in very low quantities.

Who is the mass appeal that is calling for yellow phones? Also the other thing that makes that point moot is that Nokia already release the 808 running an OS that no one wants ,that makes it even more niche.

 

[crystal_planet]

The yellow phone argument is against the point that Nokia shouldn't risk losses by making a niche product like a Pureview Windows Phone. When they have their flagship device coming in bright yellow.

Now I ask you, how many bright yellow phones had you seen coming out this year? I've seen two Galaxy Beam and Mini 2, both in very low quantities.

Who is the mass appeal that is calling for yellow phones? Also the other thing that makes that point moot is that Nokia already release the 808 running an OS that no one wants ,that makes it even more niche.

Yeah but it's only one colour in a choice of five. Personally, I wouldn't get yellow either - but some might.

 

[Reflexx]

The yellow phone argument is against the point that Nokia shouldn't risk losses by making a niche product like a Pureview Windows Phone. When they have their flagship device coming in bright yellow.

Now I ask you, how many bright yellow phones had you seen coming out this year? I've seen two Galaxy Beam and Mini 2, both in very low quantities.

Who is the mass appeal that is calling for yellow phones? Also the other thing that makes that point moot is that Nokia already release the 808 running an OS that no one wants ,that makes it even more niche.

It's just a color. They will just produce less of the hues that have lower demand.

It's an easy and inexpensive adjustment for them.

So your argument doesnt really apply.