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  1. speedtouch's Avatar
    Dear Nokia/Samsung/HTC/et al.,

    Windows Phone 8 is nearly upon on us and it’s looking great. Samsung and Nokia, you have both told us about the phones you intend to release. HTC, you have not, but will do so soon. We have good ideas as to what you’re up to though, HTC. All of the newly announced and unannounced phones look great, if you’re someone who wants a fairly large screen.

    What about the market segment that has no use for screens in the 4.3”+ range? Users that rarely to never watch a movie on their phone, users that might watch 2-3 YouTube videos a week, and users that don’t do a lot of gaming. Not to mention users who just don’t like carrying around a brick in their pocket(book).

    Sometimes screens at 4.0” or less are ideal for the above-mentioned users. The Lumia 710 is the definition of small-screened value. At 3.7” it fits easily into even the smallest of hands. The price is excellent, battery life is fair to good, and the internal specs (CPU, RAM, graphics) match those of its big brothers. For those of us who prefer a smaller phone, yet still want performance, the Lumia 710 is an unbeatable value.

    That level of performance combined with the small form factor is exactly why I purchased a Lumia 710. Well, to be fair, I upgraded my wife from a Palm Pixi to a Lumia 710 first. Then I got jealous and upgraded myself from an HTC HD7 to a Lumia 710. After moving from the 4.3” HD7 to the 3.7” Lumia 710, I realized that I did not like nor did I ever want to go back to such a large screen.

    Yet here we are. WP8 is cresting the hill, riding upon several phones from a few manufacturers. Nokia, not one of your phones are less than 4.3”. You have made no mention of a Lumia 710 successor. A Lumia 720, perhaps? Samsung, you’ve got nothing less than a 4.8” screen. Geez. HTC, a leaked spec sheet indicates you might have a 4.0” screen phone, but the CPU, RAM, and camera have been heavily dumbed down. Again, that spec is not confirmed, as it came from a purportedly leaked document.

    As it stands now, no manufacturer has announced or leaked any indication they are producing a Lumia 710-esque performance/value WP8 phone. Really, Nokia? T-Mobile execs have said on a few occasions that the Lumia 710 has been a strong performer in their lineup. Why would you neglect that market segment? I am that market segment and I am telling you right now, I will buy a phone that has a screen sized between 3.7” and 4.0”, comes with a good camera (doesn’t need to be amazing), and has performance internals. Don’t cut my RAM in half. Don’t give me an underclocked CPU. And don’t give me 2011’s graphics chip.

    I’m not a gamer, but I do play a game every once in a while. I don’t watch movies on my phone. Ever. I watch 4-5 YouTube videos on my phone a month. I am what you’d call a traditional get-things-done type of smartphone user. I email a lot, I text regularly, I keep a task list, I read RSS feeds, I tweet, and I listen to music. I have no need and do not want a 4.3”+ screen phone. I already did that, and I don’t want to go back.

    Someone. Anyone. Please make a successor to the Lumia 710: a high-performing, yet smaller-screened WP8 phone. If not Nokia, then how about you, Samsung? If not Samsung, then how about HTC? If not HTC, maybe ZTE can fill the gap? Acer? LG? Dell? Bueller?

    Left out in the cold and wanting,

    Rob
    Head of the St. Louis Windows Phone Meetup
    Last edited by speedtouch; 09-12-2012 at 12:59 PM.
    09-12-2012 12:51 PM
  2. Scout_313's Avatar
    I ordered the Droid RAZR M for this exact reason. I never watch movies on my phone and have small hands, so I prefer a slightly smaller screen. I also want a phone that fits easily in my pocket so it's nice to see high-end specs crammed into an overall smaller package. I'm hoping that we see a similar WP8 device to bring me back and get me away from Android for good.
    speedtouch likes this.
    09-12-2012 02:44 PM
  3. AKA Preluva's Avatar
    I hope you get what you desire (I'm hoping for the device of my choice as well) but I think the days of tiny phones are over. Most are watching videos, playing games and taking pix an those small phones are a pain to deal with for that.
    09-12-2012 03:58 PM
  4. brmiller1976's Avatar
    You've already got it -- it's the ZTE Tania! ;)
    09-12-2012 05:27 PM
  5. anodynamic's Avatar
    I think the fact that the iPhone5 has a 4" display proves the idea that there actually is a market for powerful, well built phones that don't have 4.8" displays...

    Maybe the fact that WP8 doesn't support any resolutions between 480x800 and 1280x720 is a problem. On Android there's 540x960 qHD as an in-between option, and without that it could be hard to find a cost-effective display for a smaller phone.
    speedtouch likes this.
    09-12-2012 06:25 PM
  6. speedtouch's Avatar
    I ordered the Droid RAZR M for this exact reason. I never watch movies on my phone and have small hands, so I prefer a slightly smaller screen. I also want a phone that fits easily in my pocket so it's nice to see high-end specs crammed into an overall smaller package. I'm hoping that we see a similar WP8 device to bring me back and get me away from Android for good.
    Here's another committed buyer of a smaller-screened, yet high-performance WP8 device. Are you listening Nokia/HTC/Samsung/et al.?

    I hope you get what you desire (I'm hoping for the device of my choice as well) but I think the days of tiny phones are over. Most are watching videos, playing games and taking pix an those small phones are a pain to deal with for that.
    I'm not so sure. But I do think it will be hard to find a smaller device like I want. I'll probably have to compromise in the performance area. But a guy can hope.

    You've already got it -- it's the ZTE Tania! ;)
    Haha, funny boy. :)

    I think the fact that the iPhone5 has a 4" display proves the idea that there actually is a market for powerful, well built phones that don't have 4.8" displays...

    Maybe the fact that WP8 doesn't support any resolutions between 480x800 and 1280x720 is a problem. On Android there's 540x960 qHD as an in-between option, and without that it could be hard to find a cost-effective display for a smaller phone.
    You are exactly right. If Apple thought the 4" and smaller market was dead, there is no way they'd have produced the iPhone 5. So you think maybe the resolution limitations are limiting the hardware available? I never thought of that, you might just be right.
    09-12-2012 06:44 PM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    So you think maybe the resolution limitations are limiting the hardware available? I never thought of that, you might just be right.
    No, that isn't the problem. You can even get 1280x720 resolutions on 3.5" displays. I doubt that makes a lot of sense, but parts like that are available.

    I'm guessing your ideal display size would be around 4.3". A couple devices (like the Xiaomi MI 2) already exist with HD resolutions at that size.
    09-12-2012 07:15 PM
  8. speedtouch's Avatar
    No, that isn't the problem. You can even get 1280x720 resolutions on 3.5" displays. I doubt that makes a lot of sense, but parts like that are available.

    I'm guessing your ideal display size would be around 4.3". A couple devices (like the Xiaomi MI 2) already exist with HD resolutions at that size.
    Ok, I see. Yeah, I thought the small screens could do 1280x720. It would be pretty darn tiny text, though! Darn it, there's that 4.3" again. I understand why you say that, it just frustrates me that no manufacturer has created a small WP8 device...so far.
    09-12-2012 09:02 PM
  9. smoledman's Avatar
    I agree, there should have been a high-end Lumia 4.0".
    speedtouch likes this.
    09-12-2012 09:33 PM
  10. anodynamic's Avatar
    No, that isn't the problem. You can even get 1280x720 resolutions on 3.5" displays. I doubt that makes a lot of sense, but parts like that are available.
    I do think component cost is an important factor. It's probably not a big deal for Apple to call a manufacturer and get their displays made in whatever shape and resolution they need, but manufacturers that don't count their device sales in tens of millions probably have to consider what is produced in the greatest volumes at the time if they want to keep costs down.
    09-12-2012 09:52 PM
  11. cedarlog's Avatar
    maybe a mid range for people with small hands
    personally i can't stand high end smartphone with less than 4.3

    i think if you agree to buy 4.0'' screen you can handle 4.3'' screen phone
    09-12-2012 10:28 PM
  12. Mystictrust's Avatar
    Count me in as a committed buyer for a small yet powerful phone. I was actually just hoping they would remake the Lumia 800 [with Gorilla glass] - they could even bump it up to 4" if they had to! But an 820 that takes the 800 from 3.7" to 4.3" AND with no gorilla glass? No thank you.

    I do watch videos from time to time on my current phone (some crappy 3.2" android), mostly from youtube, and the screen size doesn't bother me - it's not like I have to squint at it or anything! When I get home, I have a PC with an internet connection, and I have an Xbox with a YouTube app on it.

    My biggest problem is how a bigger phone feels on my face when I'm holding it up for a phone call, or finding a big enough sized belt clip and then adjusting to that huge monster brick on the side of my hip. In my pocket is out of the question (only my Zune HD is small enough for that privilege). I swapped my sim into my grilfriend's HD7 to use for a weekend and it was just awkward.

    I will give the Lumia 920 a shot for 30 days just because the 820 is barely worth it (where's the gorilla glass? Why is it only barely smaller than the 920?) but if I really can't handle it, I may have to move down to a Lumia 800 w/ 7.8 if only because of the size - and Windows Phone.

    Unless Microsoft has some unannounced killer must have feature in WP8 - then I'll just have to suck it up and complain until some manufacturer hooks us up with a GOOD, smaller phone.
    speedtouch likes this.
    09-12-2012 10:34 PM
  13. brmiller1976's Avatar
    I think they should do a 1280x720 2.5 inch WP phone. They could call it a "double-retina display." :)
    09-12-2012 10:57 PM
  14. a5cent's Avatar
    I think they should do a 1280x720 2.5 inch WP phone. They could call it a "double-retina display." :)
    Great idea, but wouldn't everyone just be disappointed their not getting a quad-retina! ;)
    I do think component cost is an important factor. It's probably not a big deal for Apple to call a manufacturer and get their displays made in whatever shape and resolution they need, but manufacturers that don't count their device sales in tens of millions probably have to consider what is produced in the greatest volumes at the time if they want to keep costs down.
    Most certainly. I have no idea how much these displays cost nor how many small, high-end, HD, WP8 devices a manufacturer could sell. I was just stating that they exist.
    Last edited by a5cent; 09-13-2012 at 12:41 AM. Reason: Spelling
    brmiller1976 likes this.
    09-13-2012 12:22 AM
  15. palandri's Avatar
    A few years back, somebody tried making a phone that would satisfy people who wanted a small phone and small display, and people who wanted a big display. I think it was Kyocera.

    It had a small outside screen, but it would flip open to a dual screen. It was obviously a failure since I never heard anymore about it.

    Addendum: I just found it, it was Kyrocera and I guess Sprint was carrying it:
    http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-20030895-251.html
    Last edited by palandri; 09-13-2012 at 12:40 AM. Reason: added
    09-13-2012 12:38 AM
  16. speedtouch's Avatar
    maybe a mid range for people with small hands
    personally i can't stand high end smartphone with less than 4.3

    i think if you agree to buy 4.0'' screen you can handle 4.3'' screen phone
    You did not read my treatise. I have already had a 4.3" HTC HD7. And before that I had a 4.3" HTC EVO 3D. I do not like 4.3". I need something smaller.

    Your needs are well met in the new range of devices. But not mine, and not to many other folks who reply in this thread.

    Count me in as a committed buyer for a small yet powerful phone. I was actually just hoping they would remake the Lumia 800 [with Gorilla glass] - they could even bump it up to 4" if they had to! But an 820 that takes the 800 from 3.7" to 4.3" AND with no gorilla glass? No thank you.

    I do watch videos from time to time on my current phone (some crappy 3.2" android), mostly from youtube, and the screen size doesn't bother me - it's not like I have to squint at it or anything! When I get home, I have a PC with an internet connection, and I have an Xbox with a YouTube app on it.

    My biggest problem is how a bigger phone feels on my face when I'm holding it up for a phone call, or finding a big enough sized belt clip and then adjusting to that huge monster brick on the side of my hip. In my pocket is out of the question (only my Zune HD is small enough for that privilege). I swapped my sim into my grilfriend's HD7 to use for a weekend and it was just awkward.

    I will give the Lumia 920 a shot for 30 days just because the 820 is barely worth it (where's the gorilla glass? Why is it only barely smaller than the 920?) but if I really can't handle it, I may have to move down to a Lumia 800 w/ 7.8 if only because of the size - and Windows Phone.

    Unless Microsoft has some unannounced killer must have feature in WP8 - then I'll just have to suck it up and complain until some manufacturer hooks us up with a GOOD, smaller phone.
    And yet another committed smaller-screened, yet high-performance WP8 device buyer outs himself! Are you listening Nokia/HTC/Samsung/et al.?

    I understand your wants completely. You want a remake of the 800, this time with Gorilla glass and performance internals. I hear ya!! I want the same thing in my "720". I'm like you, I keep my phone on my belt in a holster. 4.3" phones need large holsters.

    Good luck with the Lumia 920. I think you'll find it overly large and unwieldy. But, you might not. No one knows the future. I'll be sticking it out with my Lumia 710 for quite some time it seems. *sigh*

    Palandri, I remember that phone! I thought it was a very, very odd device. I bet you're right, I am sure it failed. It was on Sprint after all.
    09-13-2012 12:25 PM
  17. TheLastMumzy's Avatar
    Add me to the list. I have a Lumia 800 and I'll probably hang onto it as long as possible. It's the perfect size for me...
    speedtouch likes this.
    09-13-2012 11:21 PM
  18. smoledman's Avatar
    The problem is it's way too expensive for Nokia to buy enough parts for 2 flagship phones. That's Apple's first mover advantage with the 3.5" iPhone. They own that segment and nobody can compete now that Android has moved to monster screen sizes.
    09-13-2012 11:27 PM
  19. brmiller1976's Avatar
    Addendum: I just found it, it was Kyrocera and I guess Sprint was carrying it:
    Seeing double: Sprint unveils Kyocera Echo with dual touch screens | Android Atlas - CNET Reviews
    I played with one in a Sprint store when it first came out.

    Interesting concept, but I don't think they could have made the hinge any flimsier if they'd constructed it from papier maiche.
    09-14-2012 01:26 AM
  20. Heron_Kusanagi's Avatar
    Personally am a lover of larger displays, but I see the benefit of small devices for people with needs different from mine.

    I can't wait for a Nokia that has a 5-inch display and is packed with all the goodies that Nokia brings.
    09-14-2012 02:08 AM
  21. speedtouch's Avatar
    *Sigh* The rumored specs for the 4" HTC phone were correct. What a disappointment. Dumbed down very badly. Though it will be a great "Mom phone".
    09-19-2012 11:42 AM
  22. socialcarpet's Avatar
    I'm with you on this 110%.

    My Lumia 900 is a little too big for me. I'd like my next to be slightly smaller if anything, but I want better resolution.

    The 920 just doesn't grab me and there is no way in **** I am buying a BIGGER phone with an even bigger screen.

    How do people comfortably use a 4.7" phone one-handed? It seems like 1/2 the world has gone crazy with these huge phones. Where does it stop?

    Shouldn't have to deal with a stupid tablet-sized screen just to get a premium phone. I hope Nokia brings a worthy successor to the 710/800 sized segment. If not, my next might just be an iPhone 5... ugh.

    I WANT to buy another Nokia, but the glossy finish and hugeness aren't welcome for me.
    speedtouch likes this.
    09-19-2012 02:15 PM
  23. speedtouch's Avatar
    Like you, I have no idea how one could use a 4.7" screen easily. Are most people suddenly 7' tall now with 10" hands?! It makes no sense. I don't want a phablet! Yeah, the 920 is just too huge...the Ativ? Please, bricks are meant for building, not to be carried around.

    I may skip the 1st Gen of WP8 devices entirely. Hopefully the 2nd Gen will bring something I want. Sorry to hear you may have to go with the iPhone 5, but, you have to go with a phone that fits.
    09-19-2012 04:37 PM
  24. wormy6's Avatar
    I would like a 3.5 inch to 4.0 inch WP8 as well. I still have the original droid right now (3.7 inch) and I am not super excited about getting something more bulky or heavier than it.

    I am even tempted to get apples phone, but I have had bad experiences with apple products in the past and iOS6 is outdated compared to WP8 so I would prefer not to. However, if the battery life and camera are comparable to the top WP8 devices I probably will get apples phone. The superior OS is not worth the extra bulk/weight to me.

    In my opinion, apple has invested a lot of $$ shaving off the millimeters from its phone and no other company has done that enough to compete directly in the high end 3.5-4.0 inch phone space.
    speedtouch likes this.
    09-19-2012 05:22 PM
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