10-06-2012 05:15 AM
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  1. andrelamont's Avatar
    Their financial status hasn't stopped Nokia from innovating with their PureView OIS has it? Or is the 920 that underwhelming that MS thought it so bad they had to step in and screw them twice, with HTC first then with their own phone?
    Hey theefman,

    Nokia is generating revenue (like in $9.5B USD Q2/2012) which allows R&D, salaries and etc to continue. But the key question how much are they profiting?
    • Q2/2011 lost 0.71B
    • Q3/2011 lost 0.09B
    • Q4/2011 lost 1.2B
    • Q1/2012 lost 1.78B
    • Q2/2011 lost 1.05B

    source

    I am no bean-counter, nor do I play one on TV :-) The best solution for Nokia is to get some sales, 660,000 in Q2 in the USA will not get it done. Nokia plan could work but it needs to move quickly
    10-03-2012 03:13 PM
  2. stephen_az's Avatar
    Anyone is worried about the huge impact that a suface phone could have on other phone manufacturers and especially Nokia who's all in with Windows Phone?

    If I have to chose between a Surface Phone and a Nokia, I would certainly pick the Suface, which I believe would be better; on the other hand I love having a choice.

    I don't want it to be like Apple, 1 choice... you don't like it? Too bad.
    I am not worried because there is room for others in the market. Personally, I also actually expect it will be another concept device that never really sees the light of day. I also feel obliged though to ask why anyone would say they would "choose a Surface Phone" over any other brand when you haven't actually seen or touched any of the devices yet?
    10-03-2012 06:40 PM
  3. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    I am not worried because there is room for others in the market. Personally, I also actually expect it will be another concept device that never really sees the light of day. I also feel obliged though to ask why anyone would say they would "choose a Surface Phone" over any other brand when you haven't actually seen or touched any of the devices yet?
    Having seen the concept of interchangeable keysets (from a keyboard akin to the HTC 7 Pro to a controller akin to the Sony Ericsson Xperia Play), if it came with a removable battery and 16GB storage it would be a done deal!
    10-03-2012 08:15 PM
  4. astraith's Avatar
    I truly hope that the Microsoft Surface brand - assuming that is what it would be called - is either a limited release, or even better. have it being a "Droid" like brand. Where Nokia, Samsung or HTC could make a Surface phone. I think bringing a unified brand name would go a long way in helping Microsoft.

    But let's be clear - Microsoft making a Surface brand phone themselves will allow companies to consider other options. Competing with a company who can sell a 199.99 phone subsidized by a subscription service agreement undercuts not your competitors but your partners (Nokia) and when Nokia falls - and fall they will - it will send a very negative tone and who knows what will happen to WP.
    10-03-2012 11:08 PM
  5. freestaterocker's Avatar
    Why would ms buy Nokia? Nokia is not doing that great. There is no point to buy a potentially sinking ship. If Nokia goes down, ms doesn't have to care since they have other partners.

    Sent from my SGH-i677 using Board Express
    Same reason Google bought Motorola: patent portfolio.
    10-03-2012 11:14 PM
  6. astraith's Avatar
    Just to add to why MS would buy Nokia ... They aren't bad designers. So many people want the Lumia 920, but say ... Put Android on it. Nokia's woes is because of choices made, and I think WP7 hurt them because everyone knew better phones are on the way. Its sad, but true.
    10-03-2012 11:55 PM
  7. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    Same reason Google bought Motorola: patent portfolio.
    Nokia doesn't have a large patent portfolio. Neither does Motorola. Furthermore, these aren't even useful patents because they'remostly FRAND. The difference is Google had a nonexistent portfolio so it paid for Motorola.

    Now Microsoft, on the other hand, has a huge patent portfolio. It's dictated the direction of computing for years and years. Benefits from Nokia's portfolio would be marginal/nonexistent.

    That's why Apple doesn't hardball Microsoft like it goes after Android OEMs. Ut knows it cannot win.
    10-04-2012 12:11 AM
  8. Reflexx's Avatar
    Nokia as a company was u focused and their resources were spread too thin.

    At the same time, they were investing a lot of R&D trying to catch up in the smartphone business by designing a better operating system. (MeeGo) It was a bad decision because the market was moving toward powerful interconnected ecosystems, not just phone operating systems.

    They are in the process of making the right changes, but it comes with some pain.
    10-04-2012 12:12 AM
  9. cckgz4's Avatar
    It would have sell more if it was made by Google, a lot of people don't even know that Motorola was bought by Google.
    ...huh?
    10-04-2012 02:44 AM
  10. SnailUK's Avatar
    At the same time, they were investing a lot of R&D trying to catch up in the smartphone business by designing a better operating system. (MeeGo) It was a bad decision because the market was moving toward powerful interconnected ecosystems, not just phone operating systems.
    Thats the thing isn't it.

    WP8 might not look that brilliant on its own, but if i can buy a game on my WP8, and i'm entitled to that game (without buying it again) on Tablet, PC & Console, it'll be a big step better than iOS.

    Even better if all these apps use Skydrive to sync (as Microsoft have already shown), so i can just start stuff on one device, and keep moving and continuing on other devices. It would be even better, if i could have different versions of a game intercommunicating, so i have the phone, console and tablet versions, all slightly different, but using the same saved game files.

    I can already do this sort of stuff with some apps (like Sky Wallet), but i want more of it.
    10-04-2012 02:57 AM
  11. Reflexx's Avatar
    Thats the thing isn't it.



    WP8 might not look that brilliant on its own, but if i can buy a game on my WP8, and i'm entitled to that game (without buying it again) on Tablet, PC & Console, it'll be a big step better than iOS.



    Even better if all these apps use Skydrive to sync (as Microsoft have already shown), so i can just start stuff on one device, and keep moving and continuing on other devices. It would be even better, if i could have different versions of a game intercommunicating, so i have the phone, console and tablet versions, all slightly different, but using the same saved game files.



    I can already do this sort of stuff with some apps (like Sky Wallet), but i want more of it.

    It still has a ways to go.

    My point is, this is the direction the industry is moving. Just think, 4 years ago you wouldn't have these expectations. But since things are moving to being a war of ecosystems, there are a bunch of new things you want from a future phone. Things that something not tied to a strong ecosystem could possibly do.

    That's why MeeGo was going nowhere, and it was smart to use Windows Phone.
    10-04-2012 09:19 AM
  12. DungMasterFang's Avatar
    Nokia doesn't have a large patent portfolio. Neither does Motorola. Furthermore, these aren't even useful patents because they'remostly FRAND. The difference is Google had a nonexistent portfolio so it paid for Motorola.

    Now Microsoft, on the other hand, has a huge patent portfolio. It's dictated the direction of computing for years and years. Benefits from Nokia's portfolio would be marginal/nonexistent.

    That's why Apple doesn't hardball Microsoft like it goes after Android OEMs. Ut knows it cannot win.
    Haha, you got to be kidding me...

    Overall mobile patents:

    1.Nokia !!!
    2.Samsung
    3.Alcatel-Lucent
    4.Ericcson
    5.Microsoft
    6.IBM
    7.Sony
    8.NEC
    9.Motorola
    10.Qualcomm

    OEMS:
    "Nokia might be losing its overall device market share and its smartphone share is dropping like a rock but its patent portfolio is strong as ever. Samsung, Sony, NEC, and Motorola wrap up the top five listings."
    10-04-2012 09:31 AM
  13. power5's Avatar
    OEMS:
    "Nokia might be losing its overall device market share and its smartphone share is dropping like a rock but its patent portfolio is strong as ever. Samsung, Sony, NEC, and Motorola wrap up the top five listings."
    Did you read your own list? NEC and Sony and Moto are not top 5.
    10-04-2012 10:28 AM
  14. CSJr1's Avatar
    I don't like dabbling in speculation often, but my Spider Sense is tingling. Call me crazy, but I don't think the MSP (Microsoft Surface Phone) will run WP8.

    Just a hunch, but I think when the MSP comes out sometime next year, it will be poised to steal BB10 thunder. We already know now what WP8 is about, no thunder there.

    So Microsoft will do something new. It will run Windows 8 RT on the phone. Since Windows 8 can already emulate Windows Phone 8, all Windows Phone apps will run on the phone. However it will be Windows 8 RT that runs W8RT apps aswell. Couple this with similar hardware ports RT tablets have now, and you have yourself a game changer.

    /Speculation
    10-04-2012 10:31 AM
  15. power5's Avatar
    RT runs on basically the same hardware as WP so I see no reason to not be able to put RT on all phones upcoming.

    Also, RT is not a game changer. Its the same as ipad OS vs iPhone OS. They are so very very close its hard to tell them apart. A few menu options and slight app appearance changes is all.
    10-04-2012 10:37 AM
  16. DungMasterFang's Avatar
    Did you read your own list? NEC and Sony and Moto are not top 5.
    Did you read my post? It clearly states "overall mobile patents" before the list and "OEMs" before the quote.

    Here is the OEM patent list:

    1 Nokia
    2 Samsung
    3 Sony
    4 NEC
    5 Motorola
    6 RIM
    7 Siemens
    8 LG
    9 Fujitsu
    10 Hitachi

    Obviously Nokia has the largest patent portfolio of OEMs too.
    10-04-2012 12:15 PM
  17. power5's Avatar
    That helps. Where does apple fall on that OEM list as they are the one doing most of the court battles.
    10-04-2012 12:20 PM
  18. DungMasterFang's Avatar
    That helps. Where does apple fall on that OEM list as they are the one doing most of the court battles.
    I need to check Apple's ranking later, but it only has 1000+ mobile patents versus Nokia's 11 500+. Apple pays Nokia 10$ for every Iphone sold.

    Edit: Apple mostly has superficial and design patents within the US patent system(which allows some ridiculous things) and many of it's patents could be invalidated by prior art.
    Last edited by DungMasterFang; 10-04-2012 at 01:05 PM.
    10-04-2012 12:37 PM
  19. power5's Avatar
    They are very protective of their little 1000 app portfolio I guess.

    $10 for every iphone? Wow, what patents of Nokia's does the iPhone use?
    10-04-2012 12:54 PM
  20. DungMasterFang's Avatar
    They are very protective of their little 1000 app portfolio I guess.

    $10 for every iphone? Wow, what patents of Nokia's does the iPhone use?
    Wireless data, speech coding, security, encryption, wiping gestures on a touchscreen(Yup, Nokia had touchscreen tech since the 90's),on-device application stores,multitasking, data synchronization, positioning, call quality,Bluetooth accessories, and so on.

    Wiping gesture patent(a summary of it) by Nokia from 1996: (Apple tried to patent this in 2007 :blush:)

    "A display driver suitable for use with touch sensitive displays, and responsive to a wiping motion across the touch sensitive display, is disclosed. Upon detecting a wiping motion across a touch sensitive display the display driver responds by displaying a subsequent page of information which is in sequential correspondence with the page of information displayed when the swipe motion was made. Criteria for determining whether or not a swipe or wiping motion is intended or not are disclosed, and there is provided a description of a flow chart for a method of operation suitable for implementation via a micro-processor. The touch sensitive displays may be used in hand held devices such as mobile telephones."

    Nokia is the innovator of mobile devices. You can not make such device without using Nokia's IP.
    Last edited by DungMasterFang; 10-04-2012 at 02:24 PM.
    Simon Tupper and jmshub like this.
    10-04-2012 02:05 PM
  21. Simon Tupper's Avatar
    [YT]v=BJXP4T1B1hA[/YT]
    10-04-2012 08:14 PM
  22. freestaterocker's Avatar
    Nokia doesn't have a large patent portfolio. Neither does Motorola. Furthermore, these aren't even useful patents because they'remostly FRAND. The difference is Google had a nonexistent portfolio so it paid for Motorola.

    Now Microsoft, on the other hand, has a huge patent portfolio. It's dictated the direction of computing for years and years. Benefits from Nokia's portfolio would be marginal/nonexistent.

    That's why Apple doesn't hardball Microsoft like it goes after Android OEMs. Ut knows it cannot win.
    Read something and try again, friend. Every smartphone on the planet uses Nokia patents.
    10-04-2012 09:34 PM
  23. Bkr11's Avatar
    If the Surface phone does come to fruition what would prevent Nokia from being a/the mfg. partner? Nokia presumably has excess capacity and knows (high end) mobile hardware, and Microsoft presumably would be looking to compete with the iPhone. Sure - NOK wouldn't have the same margins as a proprietary phone, but I think at this point MSFT isn't looking for a highly profitable device, but instead a device that would drive adoption of the Windows Phone platform, so NOK could hopefully eek a moderate profit out of it. Just my $.02.
    10-04-2012 11:45 PM
  24. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    The Surface phone would need the whole keyboard thing. I am trying to convince my lass to go onto Windows Phone, but she DESPISES touch-screens. I could perhaps convince her with a keyboarded model, but a pure touch-screen slab like the Lumias? That is one way to go to an early grave...
    10-04-2012 11:50 PM
  25. Villain's Avatar
    well the latest rumor(s) is the surface will be a very low end device... makes more sense now.
    10-05-2012 01:39 PM
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